Are Children A Part Of The Gay Marriage Conversation?

[JakeStarkey]

Elketra, I am attacking your logic. You are saying that adult homos wish to assault children using marriage as a guise, without admitting heterosexual adults have been doing the same as well. Considering the vast numbers more of abused children by heteros than homos, your logic fails.

 

[ShackledNation]

So you can't provide a single reason why adoption of heterosexual children by homosexual married couples is a harm to anyone? And not one shred of evidence to support it?

It is shacklednation's assertion, given all the posts and resources ShackledNation has given, if there was evidence of ShackledNation's assertion, ShackledNation would post it.

Why is adoption of heterosexual children by homosexual married couples a harm to anyone, and what evidence do you have of this harm? You made the claim, back it up with reason and facts.

 

[elektra]

Adoption of heterosexual children.

You realize that even though SSCM is currently only recognized in - IIRC - 19 states. Homosexual individuals can adopt in about all states.

Kind of blows the rataionlization of "Block SSCM to prevent adoption".

LGBT adoption in the United States - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia


States that allow homosexual individuals adoption = 50
States that allow or have no prohibition for same-sex couple adoption = 38


>>>>

I know, Homosexuals can have my children if me and my wife die

A sad state our Nation is in.

Why would homosexuals have your children if you and your wife died?

One of the first things my wife and I did when we had children was make legal arrangements for our children if something were to happen to both of us. Documents for legal guardianship pending adoption. A will including Executorship for existing real property and it's sale. Proceeds of the equity in the home and life insurance - after all bills were paid off - going into a trust with an annual allowance to their new parents to defray their increased costs, and the balance of the trust funding college or being made available to them at age 21. Working with a financial adviser, a 5% rate of return on the initial trust after insurance and home sale would have provided about $5,000 to $10,000 per year for maintenance and $100,000 each for college.

This was all setup while I was an enlisted man in the Navy and the income of my wife and I combined was about $60,000 per year.

It truly is a sad state of our nation if someone is a parent and doesn't plan for their child's life if something happens to them.


>>>>

My personal situation is not the issue.

I come from a broken family of extreme abuse. Family is out of the question.

I work in an industry which is 100% travel, does not leave much time to establish friends where I live, part time.

Finances are tough, I supported homes in two countries while paying thousands to the government for visas. Thousands because of government worker mistakes.

My industry has been getting ruled and regulated out of business by the government, my work has dropped over 50%. That leaves me zero money now, for something like life insurance.

I can go on, but how much of my specifics did you know of when you replied to me.

yes, it is a sorry state of our nation, but not because of me or parents, but because of government.

did you even realize that heterosexual children are being exposed to homosexuals, that the adoption became so widespread, without a single vote at the ballot.

should you not be more concerned with this than my personal situation and the blame you seem to lay at my feet.

Wills can be cheaply made...if you spent the time you spend whining about gay marriage simply getting your affairs in order "just in case".....

Whining? What's wrong, baby. You must attack me personally in order to what, ha
ve a valid discussion if orphaned children would choose adoption by two homosexual men over a mom and dad.
Why must you ignore and run from such a simple question that is pertinent to the OP.

My Will, is the bigger issue.

 

[elektra]

So you can't provide a single reason why adoption of heterosexual children by homosexual married couples is a harm to anyone? And not one shred of evidence to support it?

It is shacklednation's assertion, given all the posts and resources ShackledNation has given, if there was evidence of ShackledNation's assertion, ShackledNation would post it.

Why is adoption of heterosexual children by homosexual married couples a harm to anyone, and what evidence do you have of this harm? You made the claim, back it up with reason and facts.

You stated it, support your claim, and which post did I say that, just so we get the quote correct.

 

[elektra]

Elketra, I am attacking your logic. You are saying that adult homos wish to assault children using marriage as a guise, without admitting heterosexual adults have been doing the same as well. Considering the vast numbers more of abused children by heteros than homos, your logic fails.

Quote me so all can see you know what you speak of.
Otherwise you are simply trolling.

 

[ShackledNation]

So you can't provide a single reason why adoption of heterosexual children by homosexual married couples is a harm to anyone? And not one shred of evidence to support it?

It is shacklednation's assertion, given all the posts and resources ShackledNation has given, if there was evidence of ShackledNation's assertion, ShackledNation would post it.

Why is adoption of heterosexual children by homosexual married couples a harm to anyone, and what evidence do you have of this harm? You made the claim, back it up with reason and facts.

You stated it, support your claim, and which post did I say that, just so we get the quote correct.

Do you believe that homosexual couples adopting heterosexual children is a harm to anyone?

 

[elektra]

How is it that all these folks, who are so "right", must attack heterosexuals in order to justify their position that homosexual adoption of heterosexual children is the choice children will make.

All these activists simply run from the issue of the OP, do orphaned children have a voice, will orphaned children choose two homosexual men over a Mom and a Dad.

Who amongst us will choose to replace mom with a man in a skirt at the age of 5.

 

[elektra]

So you can't provide a single reason why adoption of heterosexual children by homosexual married couples is a harm to anyone? And not one shred of evidence to support it?

It is shacklednation's assertion, given all the posts and resources ShackledNation has given, if there was evidence of ShackledNation's assertion, ShackledNation would post it.

Why is adoption of heterosexual children by homosexual married couples a harm to anyone, and what evidence do you have of this harm? You made the claim, back it up with reason and facts.

You stated it, support your claim, and which post did I say that, just so we get the quote correct.

Do you believe that homosexual couples adopting heterosexual children is a harm to anyone?

Prove your assertion that there is no harm, you can not do that, otherwise you would

Do you believe 5 year old orphaned boys will choose two homosexual men over a mommy and a daddy.

My question is relevant to the OP, your not so much.

Start a thread on your assertion, otherwise I am fine showing how you run from that which you can answer, but will not, for to do so will expose your idea as absurd.

 

[WorldWatcher]

did you even realize that heterosexual children are being exposed to homosexuals, that the adoption became so widespread, without a single vote at the ballot.

So you realize the vast majority of laws are passed by elected representatives and not by direct ballot vote?

Your location data is California. California has both the initiative process to pass Statutory laws and a referendum process to pass amendments to the State Constitution. Free free to get the Statutory law repealed by getting it on the ballot or use an initiative to amend the California Constitution.

Should orphaned heterosexual children have a right to refuse adoption by homosexuals?

The answer is yes.

1. I was adopted when I was 13 in New York. The Judge talked to me privately in Chambers prior to approving the adoption. It was explained to my that under New York law (at the time, I don't know if it's still the same now) that if I had been 14 there would have been been documents for me to sign giving my permission and that I agreed to the adoption. However since I was 13 and able to understand the proceedings he wanted to know if I agreed and that if I didn't there would be no adoption.

2. Secondly, do you really think that an orphaned 1-year old is going to understand and be able to give consent? Not likely.

Should parents have a vote, deciding if orphaned children can choose heterosexual parents. The answer is no, it has been decided already.

False, parents have the ability to determine what happens to their children. They can prearrange legal guardianship if the event of accidental death and follow-on private adoption by god-parents or a relative. Without prearrangement the State will try to place the children with a blood relative first.

IF the parents are so irresponsible as not to make prior arrangements and are alive, they are free to place the child for adoption through private adoption agencies and have a say in whom adopts their child.

Should parents have a vote, deciding if orphaned children can choose heterosexual parents. The answer is no, it has been decided already.

Do minor children below the age of consent to adoption (which may be lower in some state then the age of majority, typically 18) have the option to choose their heterosexual adoptive parents? The answer is no, it has already been decided.
Parents had no voice nor vote.

Children had no voice.

I had a voice, of course I was old enough to be able to articulate a response when asked. A 1-year old that can only go goo-goo ga-ga isn't able to provide input.

The issue is a moot point, government force has dictated homosexuals will have access to heterosexual children. Zero debate or discussion.

False again, the issues have been debated. In the media and in the State Legislatures. You realize that representative have the ability to debate laws before they are passed right?



>>>>

 

[ShackledNation]

So you can't provide a single reason why adoption of heterosexual children by homosexual married couples is a harm to anyone? And not one shred of evidence to support it?

It is shacklednation's assertion, given all the posts and resources ShackledNation has given, if there was evidence of ShackledNation's assertion, ShackledNation would post it.

Why is adoption of heterosexual children by homosexual married couples a harm to anyone, and what evidence do you have of this harm? You made the claim, back it up with reason and facts.

You stated it, support your claim, and which post did I say that, just so we get the quote correct.

Do you believe that homosexual couples adopting heterosexual children is a harm to anyone?

Prove your assertion that there is no harm, you can not do that, otherwise you would

Do you believe 5 year old orphaned boys will choose two homosexual men over a mommy and a daddy.

My question is relevant to the OP, your not so much.

Start a thread on your assertion, otherwise I am fine showing how you run from that which you can answer, but will not, for to do so will expose your idea as absurd.

Do you believe that homosexual couples adopting heterosexual children is a harm to anyone? Yes or no.

 

[elektra]

did you even realize that heterosexual children are being exposed to homosexuals, that the adoption became so widespread, without a single vote at the ballot.

So you realize the vast majority of laws are passed by elected representatives and not by direct ballot vote?

Should orphaned heterosexual children have a right to refuse adoption by homosexuals?

The answer is yes.

1. I was adopted when I was 13 in New York. The Judge talked to me privately in Chambers prior to approving the adoption. It was explained to my that under New York law (at the time, I don't know if it's still the same now) that if I had been 14 there would have been been documents for me to sign giving my permission and that I agreed to the adoption. However since I was 13 and able to understand the proceedings he wanted to know if I agreed and that if I didn't there would be no adoption.

2. Secondly, do you really think that an orphaned 1-year old is going to understand and be able to give consent? Not likely.

Should parents have a vote, deciding if orphaned children can choose heterosexual parents. The answer is no, it has been decided already.

False, parents have the ability to determine what happens to their children. They can prearrange legal guardianship if the event of accidental death and follow-on private adoption by god-parents or a relative. Without prearrangement the State will try to place the children with a blood relative first.

IF the parents are so irresponsible as not to make prior arrangements and are alive, they are free to place the child for adoption through private adoption agencies and have a say in whom adopts their child.

Should parents have a vote, deciding if orphaned children can choose heterosexual parents. The answer is no, it has been decided already.

Do minor children below the age of consent to adoption (which may be lower in some state then the age of majority, typically 18) have the option to choose their heterosexual adoptive parents? The answer is no, it has already been decided.
Parents had no voice nor vote.

Children had no voice.

I had a voice, of course I was old enough to be able to articulate a response when asked. A 1-year old that can only go goo-goo ga-ga isn't able to provide input.

The issue is a moot point, government force has dictated homosexuals will have access to heterosexual children. Zero debate or discussion.

False again, the issues have been debated. In the media and in the State Legislatures. You realize that representative have the ability to debate laws before they are passed right?



>>>>

The media debated? When did the media become the arbitrator, when did the media become our voice? When did the people elect CNN as our voice?

Great, the media decided, my point exactly.

When you were adopted did you choose homosexuals over heterosexuals and how was that choice presented to you

Yes, a one year old, a five year old have no idea what homosexuality is, which is one of my points, my point being there is no choice. Which you confirm, so thank you for being in agreement

We seem to be on the same page, except about the media but maybe you simply need to clarify that.

 

[elektra]

It is shacklednation's assertion, given all the posts and resources ShackledNation has given, if there was evidence of ShackledNation's assertion, ShackledNation would post it.

Why is adoption of heterosexual children by homosexual married couples a harm to anyone, and what evidence do you have of this harm? You made the claim, back it up with reason and facts.

You stated it, support your claim, and which post did I say that, just so we get the quote correct.

Do you believe that homosexual couples adopting heterosexual children is a harm to anyone?

Prove your assertion that there is no harm, you can not do that, otherwise you would

Do you believe 5 year old orphaned boys will choose two homosexual men over a mommy and a daddy.

My question is relevant to the OP, your not so much.

Start a thread on your assertion, otherwise I am fine showing how you run from that which you can answer, but will not, for to do so will expose your idea as absurd.

Do you believe that homosexual couples adopting heterosexual children is a harm to anyone? Yes or no.

Already replied,

 

[ShackledNation]

All right, since elektra cannot back up his claim with either a reason or evidence, can anyone else?

Why is adoption of heterosexual children by homosexual married couples a harm to anyone, and what evidence do you have of this harm?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Prove your assertion that there is no harm, you can not do that, otherwise you would

Do you believe 5 year old orphaned boys will choose two homosexual men over a mommy and a daddy.

See that's the Catch-22 right there.

Adoption for newborns is pretty easy, there are waiting lists. But as a child gets older they become more and more difficult to place because many prospective adoptive parents don't want an older child.

That means, unless the parents were responsible and made rearrangements or other blood family refuse to take them, then they are dumped into the foster care system where the average age of the approximately 400,000 kids in the system is 8 1/2 years old. Some are older - in their teens, but that is an average which means there are many that are younger - like you 5-year old hypothetical.

Wanna bet that the vast majority of those kids would take a same-sex pair of parents that would care for them, be there for them, and love them over being kicked around in the government system until they aged out at 18?


Adoption often leaves older children behind alone but waiting families change the future Deseret News
Adopting Older Children


>>>>

 

[elektra]

Prove your assertion that there is no harm, you can not do that, otherwise you would

Do you believe 5 year old orphaned boys will choose two homosexual men over a mommy and a daddy.

See that's the Catch-22 right there.

Adoption for newborns is pretty easy, there are waiting lists. But as a child gets older they become more and more difficult to place because many prospective adoptive parents don't want an old child.

That means, unless the parents were responsible and made rearrangements or other blood family refuse to take them, then they are dumped into the foster care system where the average age of the approximately 400,000 kids in the system is 8 1/2 years old. Some are older - in their teens, but that is an average which means there are many that are younger - like you 5-year old hypothetical.

Wanna bet that the vast majority of those kids would take a same-sex pair of parents that would care for them, be there for them, and love them over being kicked around in the government system until they aged out at 18?


Adoption often leaves older children behind alone but waiting families change the future Deseret News
Adopting Older Children


>>>>

My 5 year old example is not hypothetical, the get adopted now, by homosexuals.

You state a 8.5 year old would pick a homosexual man-man over the worst of the government care. But would that same child choose a homosexual man-man over a mom and dad, as parents

Hell, my son at 8.5 has zero idea that men actually put what is made to reproduce into another man's anus.


Kicked around in the government system? So fix the government system.

 

[WorldWatcher]

You state a 8.5 year old would pick a homosexual man-man over the worst of the government care. But would that same child choose a homosexual man-man over a mom and dad, as parents

I see you missed the point of the previous post. As children get older "mom's and dad's" aren't stepping up to the plate to become adoptive parents - they typically will go on a waiting list for newborns instead of adopting an older child.

So the decision isn't be adopted by a man/man or woman/woman couple, the decision is to stay in the government system or be adopted or not.

And as I said in my case, which was backed up in one of the articles previously linked, older children to have a say in the adoption process.

Kicked around in the government system? So fix the government system.

Go for it, what's you plan? More government?


>>>>

 

[WorldWatcher]

did you even realize that heterosexual children are being exposed to homosexuals, that the adoption became so widespread, without a single vote at the ballot.

So you realize the vast majority of laws are passed by elected representatives and not by direct ballot vote?

Should orphaned heterosexual children have a right to refuse adoption by homosexuals?

The answer is yes.

1. I was adopted when I was 13 in New York. The Judge talked to me privately in Chambers prior to approving the adoption. It was explained to my that under New York law (at the time, I don't know if it's still the same now) that if I had been 14 there would have been been documents for me to sign giving my permission and that I agreed to the adoption. However since I was 13 and able to understand the proceedings he wanted to know if I agreed and that if I didn't there would be no adoption.

2. Secondly, do you really think that an orphaned 1-year old is going to understand and be able to give consent? Not likely.

Should parents have a vote, deciding if orphaned children can choose heterosexual parents. The answer is no, it has been decided already.

False, parents have the ability to determine what happens to their children. They can prearrange legal guardianship if the event of accidental death and follow-on private adoption by god-parents or a relative. Without prearrangement the State will try to place the children with a blood relative first.

IF the parents are so irresponsible as not to make prior arrangements and are alive, they are free to place the child for adoption through private adoption agencies and have a say in whom adopts their child.

Should parents have a vote, deciding if orphaned children can choose heterosexual parents. The answer is no, it has been decided already.

Do minor children below the age of consent to adoption (which may be lower in some state then the age of majority, typically 18) have the option to choose their heterosexual adoptive parents? The answer is no, it has already been decided.
Parents had no voice nor vote.

Children had no voice.

I had a voice, of course I was old enough to be able to articulate a response when asked. A 1-year old that can only go goo-goo ga-ga isn't able to provide input.

The issue is a moot point, government force has dictated homosexuals will have access to heterosexual children. Zero debate or discussion.

False again, the issues have been debated. In the media and in the State Legislatures. You realize that representative have the ability to debate laws before they are passed right?



>>>>

The media debated? When did the media become the arbitrator, when did the media become our voice? When did the people elect CNN as our voice?

Great, the media decided, my point exactly.

When you were adopted did you choose homosexuals over heterosexuals and how was that choice presented to you

Yes, a one year old, a five year old have no idea what homosexuality is, which is one of my points, my point being there is no choice. Which you confirm, so thank you for being in agreement

We seem to be on the same page, except about the media but maybe you simply need to clarify that.

I didn't say the "media decided" now did I. Please stop trying to put words in my mouth. I usually have my own foot in there so I don't need assistance from other people.


Yes part of the debate occurred (and is occurring in the media) but it's the elected Representatives in the Legislatures that wrote the laws.


>>>>

 

[Flopper]

With 32 states pushing the US Supreme Court to make a final decision on gay marriage, how heavily will the welfare of children weigh in on that debate?

Are children a part of the gay marriage discussion? Well, the Europeans think so... European Court Rules Gay Marriage not a Human Right ... US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

What do you believe? Vote the poll.

None at all. SCOTUS will based their decisions on the Constitution and legal presidents. Even if there were convicting evidence, which there isn't, that children are better off with a single parent or with a same sex couple, it wouldn't matter.

 

[WorldWatcher]

>


Ya'll have a good night, I'm off to bed.



>>>>

 

[elektra]

did you even realize that heterosexual children are being exposed to homosexuals, that the adoption became so widespread, without a single vote at the ballot.

So you realize the vast majority of laws are passed by elected representatives and not by direct ballot vote?

Should orphaned heterosexual children have a right to refuse adoption by homosexuals?

The answer is yes.

1. I was adopted when I was 13 in New York. The Judge talked to me privately in Chambers prior to approving the adoption. It was explained to my that under New York law (at the time, I don't know if it's still the same now) that if I had been 14 there would have been been documents for me to sign giving my permission and that I agreed to the adoption. However since I was 13 and able to understand the proceedings he wanted to know if I agreed and that if I didn't there would be no adoption.

2. Secondly, do you really think that an orphaned 1-year old is going to understand and be able to give consent? Not likely.

Should parents have a vote, deciding if orphaned children can choose heterosexual parents. The answer is no, it has been decided already.

False, parents have the ability to determine what happens to their children. They can prearrange legal guardianship if the event of accidental death and follow-on private adoption by god-parents or a relative. Without prearrangement the State will try to place the children with a blood relative first.

IF the parents are so irresponsible as not to make prior arrangements and are alive, they are free to place the child for adoption through private adoption agencies and have a say in whom adopts their child.

Should parents have a vote, deciding if orphaned children can choose heterosexual parents. The answer is no, it has been decided already.

Do minor children below the age of consent to adoption (which may be lower in some state then the age of majority, typically 18) have the option to choose their heterosexual adoptive parents? The answer is no, it has already been decided.
Parents had no voice nor vote.

Children had no voice.

I had a voice, of course I was old enough to be able to articulate a response when asked. A 1-year old that can only go goo-goo ga-ga isn't able to provide input.

The issue is a moot point, government force has dictated homosexuals will have access to heterosexual children. Zero debate or discussion.

False again, the issues have been debated. In the media and in the State Legislatures. You realize that representative have the ability to debate laws before they are passed right?



>>>>

The media debated? When did the media become the arbitrator, when did the media become our voice? When did the people elect CNN as our voice?

Great, the media decided, my point exactly.

When you were adopted did you choose homosexuals over heterosexuals and how was that choice presented to you

Yes, a one year old, a five year old have no idea what homosexuality is, which is one of my points, my point being there is no choice. Which you confirm, so thank you for being in agreement

We seem to be on the same page, except about the media but maybe you simply need to clarify that.

I didn't say the "media decided" now did I. Please stop trying to put words in my mouth. I usually have my own foot in there so I don't need assistance from other people.


Yes part of the debate occurred (and is occurring in the media) but it's the elected Representatives in the Legislatures that wrote the laws.


>>>>

Yes, I guess you did not say, "the media decided'. But your idea that the Media debated is really kind of odd, how does the media debate our issues, by the fair and balanced approach, aka Fox, or a panel of "experts". There was no debate, and there were votes, otherwise but the Activist Courts overruled both our votes and our elected officials.