Zone1 Antisemites lie about Israel being an apartheid state

[georgephillip]

The Israelis did flyovers in an attempt to identify the vessel but since it wasn't flying the U.S. flag, they couldn't identify it.

Where did you learn the Liberty was not flying a US flag at the time of attack?

The Liberty was flying an American flag when the attack began. When that flag was shot to pieces by the IDF, a second larger flag took its place

GoogleAI Overview:

"Yes, the USS Liberty was flying an American flag when it was attacked by Israeli forces on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The ship had clearly visible identification markings on its hull as well."

Historical Documents - Office of the Historian.

 

[georgephillip]

Where did they get the information that the Israelis identified the ship nine hours earlier? Is the captain and crew speculating or assuming they were identified due to the earlier flyovers?

Possibly from intercepted IDF communications or from testimony gathered from Israeli investigations.

GoogleAI Overview:

• • "Survivors' and Critics' Position: Many survivors and high-ranking U.S. officials (such as former CIA Director Richard Helms and Admiral Thomas Moorer, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff) have consistently maintained the attack was deliberate.
  • 
    
  • "They cite intercepted Israeli communications, eyewitness accounts, and the prolonged nature of the attack as evidence that the Israelis knew they were attacking a U.S. ship.
  • 
    
  • "A larger, 7x13 foot flag was raised after the air attack and before the torpedo attack, but survivors report the attackers fired on life rafts and crew members, suggesting they intended to leave no survivors."

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Where did you learn the Liberty was not flying a US flag at the time of attack?

The Liberty was flying an American flag when the attack began. When that flag was shot to pieces by the IDF, a second larger flag took its place

GoogleAI Overview:

"Yes, the USS Liberty was flying an American flag when it was attacked by Israeli forces on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War. The ship had clearly visible identification markings on its hull as well."

Historical Documents - Office of the Historian.

Actually, I was incorrect about that. Apparently they were flying their flag and, as you say, was replaced with a larger flag after the first attack.

As to why the Israelis say they didn't see a flag, I don't know. But I'm still not convinced the attack was deliberate and that they knew it was American.

 

[georgephillip]

Whether the flag was flying or not, I really don't understand why Israel would deliberately attack an American vessel in the middle of a war against three or four other nations

The most likely explanation for why the attack took place was to sink Liberty with no survivors, blame Egypt, and wait for the US to invade Egypt in response.

If that is what happened, there is significant controversy over which side of the Atlantic came up with the plan.

I turned 20 in the summer of 1967, and I knew a few guys in Vietnam who were not happy to be there. Some of them would have fought for a place in line to attack Egypt if Liberty had gone down with all hands, and some of their grandchildren might be in Egypt today keeping an eye on the oil.

 

[georgephillip]

Actually, I was incorrect about that. Apparently they were flying their flag and, as you say, was replaced with a larger flag after the first attack.

As to why the Israelis say they didn't see a flag, I don't know. But I'm still not convinced the attack was deliberate and that they knew it was American.

I understand why some doubt the intentionality of the attack, and I think that's perhaps the best single argument for a full public investigation into these events before all eyewitnesses die of old age.

 

[Deadstick]

There would have been no point in that. Israel had already conducted attacks against Egyptians at this point, destroying their aircraft on the ground.

Also, the planes that did the flyovers and the initial attacks were recognized as French Mirages pretty much from the start, which was the plane used by Israel. Egypt only had Soviet aircraft and most of these were already destroyed on the ground three days earlier.

Egypt had a very limited capability of doing anything with aircraft at this point and the U.S. likely knew it. Any attempt to blame Egypt would have been foolish and most likely not believed by anyone.

You would be surprised what the herd would believe as we have found out over the past few years.

 

[Deadstick]

Meanwhile how the Israelis have captured British members of Parliament.

Westminster group was funded by Israeli government, inquiry confirms

Official probe was sparked by Declassified investigation into weapons firm

www.declassifieduk.org

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

The most likely explanation for why the attack took place was to sink Liberty with no survivors, blame Egypt, and wait for the US to invade Egypt in response.

If that is what happened, there is significant controversy over which side of the Atlantic came up with the plan.

I turned 20 in the summer of 1967, and I knew a few guys in Vietnam who were not happy to be there. Some of them would have fought for a place in line to attack Egypt if Liberty had gone down with all hands, and some of their grandchildren might be in Egypt today keeping an eye on the oil.

It's highly unlikely that the U.S. would have invaded a foreign country after an attack on a single vessel, especially a country the size of Egypt. It would take a hell of a lot more than that for the U.S. to invade a country.

Besides all that, if the goal was to sink the vessel with all hands for the purpose of blaming Egypt then they would have done so. Secondly, it would also mean they knew the vessel was American even before the flyovers and so it would not explain why the Mirages bothered to try to identify the ship before attacking.

Israel was in day three of a war with three or four other countries and had already rendered Egypt's air force as useless. As I said before, it would have been foolish for Israel to try to pull something like this when the U.S. most likely knew that Egypt's air force was kaput.

 

[Lisa558]

It's highly unlikely that the U.S. would have invaded a foreign country after an attack on a single vessel, especially a country the size of Egypt. It would take a hell of a lot more than that for the U.S. to invade a country.

Besides all that, if the goal was to sink the vessel with all hands for the purpose of blaming Egypt then they would have done so. Secondly, it would also mean they knew the vessel was American even before the flyovers and so it would not explain why the Mirages bothered to try to identify the ship before attacking.

Israel was in day three of a war with three or four other countries and had already rendered Egypt's air force as useless. As I said before, it would have been foolish for Israel to try to pull something like this when the U.S. most likely knew that Egypt's air force was kaput.

Not sure what the antisemite is saying, but I imagine he’s still trying to convince you that the Jews deliberately attacked an American warship - and dredging up something from 50 years ago.

Don’t believe it.

Instead, that antisemite should be concerned with the Islamist Terrorist State of Iran, that has declared “Death to America,” and was on its way to acquiring nukes.

That he ignores the REAL and current threat by Islamists to lie about something he says Israel did 50 years ago tells you just how engrained his Jew-hate is.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

You would be surprised what the herd would believe as we have found out over the past few years.

That would apply to any and all herds. People on both sides have been buying into some ridiculous conspiracies the last ten years or so. One could even say that the belief that the attack was deliberate and that they knew the vessel was American is a conspiracy theory.

Without a conspiracy theory we are left with the fog of war and that these kinds of mixups happen all the time in war. We already know this much. However, if you theorize the attack was deliberate, now you have to come up with another theory to support the first theory: the motive. So now we have a theory that they wanted to sink the vessel with all hands and blame it on the Egyptians. But this theory is based on absolutely nothing.

The idea that it was a mistake is just much simpler and makes more sense to me.

 

[Sayaras]

[..settler movement."

1. The Guardian re Israel is as "reliable" as fuked up Haaretz. Two extremist of the same coin..

Israeli Mayor Bans Haaretz Over Anti-IDF ‘Blood Libel’

Arad Mayor Yair Maayan announces a ban on Haaretz over accusations against IDF soldiers amid rising tensions.

www.jewishexponent.com

IDF Dumps Haaretz: Government Ban Hits Spokesman Subscription - JFeed

The IDF Spokesperson's Unit cancels Haaretz subscription, enforcing a government decision to sever ties with the newspaper for spreadin - JFeed Israel News

www.jfeed.com

2 Settlers use Bible basically , not Talmud. Just like Evangelicals do from Genesis, etc. The Haredim the pious ultra Orthodox who refuse to serve in IDF are the Talmud guys and you racist Arabs target haredim in your fascistic terror.

 

[Sayaras]

Possibly from ..

Still talking crap about USSiberty ACCIDENT? Don't you have other material? And since when are Arab terrorists worried about American lives? Lowlife hypocrites

 

[JoeB131]

Did the Israelis know this?

Yes.
Come on, guy, the Mossad is reasonably competent to know exactly what ships the Egyptians had in their navy.

It was not. For whatever reason, the flag was not flying at the time of the attack.

Unlikely.

So? Israel was at war with three other countries. They weren't taking any chances with a ship they couldn't identify.

Except they overflew the vessel multiple times before the attack. Claiming they didn't know what it was just isn't credible.

 

[JoeB131]

That’s what I said upthread. NO WAY would Israel deliberately attack an American warship. That some of these antisemites think so just speaks to how much contempt they have for Jews.

I can think of two very good reasons.

1) They were afraid the Liberty had decoded their transmissions authorizing a sneak attack on Egyptian forces.

2) They thought if they sank the Liberty, they could drag the US into the war.

I am more inclined towards the latter. Given the Gulf of Tonkin, the USS Maine, Pearl Harbor, unrestricted u-boat warfare in WWI, the US has a long history of getting into wars to protect our ships.

And there are many instances of this type of thing happening in the Fog of War. Again, it is double standards to zero in ONLY on the Jewish state.

Name five? The only one that comes close is when Iraq attacked USS Stark in 1986. And that was one plane firing one missile, not three separate attacks.

And funny thing, we didn't take Saddam's word for it that it was an oopsie

Or, speaking of deliberate attacks, what about when the Islamist savages snuck into the Olympics Village and massacred the Jewish athletes, and their coach? And of course we all know about 10/7 and what those subhumans did to innocent Jews.

Gee, sounds like invading their land and destroying their homes was a terrible idea.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Yes.
Come on, guy, the Mossad is reasonably competent to know exactly what ships the Egyptians had in their navy.

And yet they thought it was an Egyptian vessel. Specifically, they thought it was the El Quesir.

Unlikely.


Except they overflew the vessel multiple times before the attack. Claiming they didn't know what it was just isn't credible.

Claiming the attack was deliberate and that they knew it was American is no more credible. It makes no sense and the only explanation offered is the theory, nay, hypothesis (it's not even truly a hypothesis) that they wanted to sink the vessel with all hands to blame it on the Egyptians. This hypothesis has no basis whatsoever. It is pure speculation.

There's not enough evidence to say one hundred percent certain one way or the other. This incident should not have been brought up in this debate over Israel's moral character as if it proves the Israelis are murderers since it has never been determined the attack was deliberate.

Occam's Razor: strip away all the bullshit and usually you find that the truth is much simpler. It was likely nothing more than the fog and confusion of war and mistaken identity.

 

[JoeB131]

And yet they thought it was an Egyptian vessel. Specifically, they thought it was the El Quesir.

Um, yeah, about that.

Claiming the attack was deliberate and that they knew it was American is no more credible. It makes no sense and the only explanation offered is the theory, nay, hypothesis (it's not even truly a hypothesis) that they wanted to sink the vessel with all hands to blame it on the Egyptians. This hypothesis has no basis whatsoever. It is pure speculation.

Except that they attacked the Liberty. Three times.

There's not enough evidence to say one hundred percent certain one way or the other. This incident should not have been brought up in this debate over Israel's moral character as if it proves the Israelis are murderers since it has never been determined the attack was deliberate.

But that's the whole point. Unethical people would do that.

Occam's Razor: strip away all the bullshit and usually you find that the truth is much simpler. It was likely nothing more than the fog and confusion of war and mistaken identity.

Or you factor in the Zionists are manipulative, deceitful, and unethical bastards... And then it makes all sorts of sense.

 

[georgephillip]

1. The Guardian re Israel is as "reliable" as fuked up Haaretz. Two extremist of the same coin..

Israeli Mayor Bans Haaretz Over Anti-IDF ‘Blood Libel’

Arad Mayor Yair Maayan announces a ban on Haaretz over accusations against IDF soldiers amid rising tensions.

www.jewishexponent.com

IDF Dumps Haaretz: Government Ban Hits Spokesman Subscription - JFeed

The IDF Spokesperson's Unit cancels Haaretz subscription, enforcing a government decision to sever ties with the newspaper for spreadin - JFeed Israel News

www.jfeed.com

2 Settlers use Bible basically , not Talmud. Just like Evangelicals do from Genesis, etc. The Haredim the pious ultra Orthodox who refuse to serve in IDF are the Talmud guys and you racist Arabs target haredim in your fascistic terror.

Your link:

"The decision highlights publisher Amos Schocken's statements at a Haaretz conference in London, where he reportedly called Palestinian terrorists 'freedom fighters' and demanded sanctions on Prime Minister Netanyahu and Ministers Smotrich and Ben-Gvir, claiming Netanyahu's government imposes a 'cruel apartheid regime' on Palestinians."

Israeli Jews not only want to limit free speech in Israel, they are actively lobbying for similar cowardice in the US:

Israeli billionaire's call to limit free speech sparks conservative fury

"Israeli cybersecurity billionaire Shlomo Kramer's push to limit free speech has sparked outrage among conservatives online.

"During an interview New Year's Day on CNBC, Kramer said 'it's time to limit the First Amendment. We need to control all the social platforms … and take control of what they are saying.'"

Is it time to "limit the First Amendment"?

 

[georgephillip]

Still talking crap about USSiberty ACCIDENT? Don't you have other material? And since when are Arab terrorists worried about American lives? Lowlife hypocrites

There was nothing accidental about Israel's deliberate, illegal attack on the USS Liberty:

USS Liberty FAQ: Why was the attack unlawful?

"First, you have to bear in mind that USS Liberty was in international waters, had no offensive armament, and was moving so slowly that she was barely making way.

"No one, not Israel, not Egypt, not the Soviets - no one - had a legal right to fire on such a ship.

The attack was, per se, a violation of international law.

"Under international law, in the absence of an attack against the Israelis by USS Liberty, the only legal right the Israelis had was to approach the ship and identify her.

"They did not do this."

 

[Hafar1014]

There was nothing accidental about Israel's deliberate, illegal attack on the USS Liberty:

USS Liberty FAQ: Why was the attack unlawful?

"First, you have to bear in mind that USS Liberty was in international waters, had no offensive armament, and was moving so slowly that she was barely making way.

"No one, not Israel, not Egypt, not the Soviets - no one - had a legal right to fire on such a ship.

The attack was, per se, a violation of international law.

"Under international law, in the absence of an attack against the Israelis by USS Liberty, the only legal right the Israelis had was to approach the ship and identify her.

"They did not do this."

The Liberty was in an active war zone caused by the incompetence of its captain.

 

[georgephillip]

And yet they thought it was an Egyptian vessel. Specifically, they thought it was the El Quesir.

"Other than both ships having general hull lines of cargo-type ships, the two ships had little in common (as highlighted below). The USS Liberty had:

• no portholes in her hull,
• two tall and vertical pole-masts (forward and aft),
• a large tower-mast on top of forward superstructure,
• a large (four-level) superstructure,
• a vertical stack in the middle of the superstructure,
• an angled (78 degree) bow point,
• a very large radio antenna reflector dish aft the superstructure,"

The Mistaken Identity Claim: USS Liberty vs El Quseir