Antidepressants don't work?

[CaughtInTheMid]

Anybody watching 60 minutes tonight? If not, watch it online. It's very interesting how some researchers are now saying that antidepressants don't work in mild or moderate cases. Heck, it sounds like the UK has already admitted it.

Take a view, it's good.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Anybody watching 60 minutes tonight? If not, watch it online. It's very interesting how some researchers are now saying that antidepressants don't work in mild or moderate cases. Heck, it sounds like the UK has already admitted it.

Take a view, it's good.

They are simply wrong. The problem is not that anti depressants don't work, they work on about 80 percent of those afflicted. The problem is current mental health calls EVERYTHING depression. Anti Depressants are not going to work on the supposed mild cases because those people are not clinically depressed, their brain is not short on neurotransmitters. They are being given a drug they don't need.

And a lot of the supposed moderate problems are not clinical either. It has just come to be to easy to label everything as depression and give pills for it when no pills are needed or the problem is something other then clinical depression.

 

[Oddball]

Anybody watching 60 minutes tonight? If not, watch it online. It's very interesting how some researchers are now saying that antidepressants don't work in mild or moderate cases. Heck, it sounds like the UK has already admitted it.

Take a view, it's good.

They don't work in most cases because "depression" has no pathology....There's no "disease", in the traditional clinical sense, to treat.

Most of today's unquantifiable "disorders" are pretty much dreamed up by PhD candidates, who needed to make a "new discovery" for their dissertations.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Anybody watching 60 minutes tonight? If not, watch it online. It's very interesting how some researchers are now saying that antidepressants don't work in mild or moderate cases. Heck, it sounds like the UK has already admitted it.

Take a view, it's good.

They don't work in most cases because "depression" has no pathology....There's no "disease", in the traditional clinical sense, to treat.

Most of today's unquantifiable "disorders" are pretty much dreamed up by PhD candidates, who needed to make a "new discovery" for their dissertations.

Clinical Depression exists. I have it and I suffer major depression pretty much all the time. It is caused mostly by a lack of one or more neurotransmitters in the brain. They have not developed a way to test medically for it.

The problem currently is that people that are NOT clinically depressed are diagnosed as such and given pills that won't help them because they have no deficiency of those transmitters.

Kids are the most over diagnosed of the lot. Act up as a teenager naturally does and an over concerned parent or Teacher will get you seen by a therapist or Doctor that has a vested interest in you being depressed.

The local mental health facility went from treating adults and senile old to no old people only about 10 beds for adults and almost exclusively treating teenagers and small children.

Further in children and teenagers the drugs that are common to the current era do not work on them. They actually induce the very effects they are supposed to treat.

 

[Oddball]

Anybody watching 60 minutes tonight? If not, watch it online. It's very interesting how some researchers are now saying that antidepressants don't work in mild or moderate cases. Heck, it sounds like the UK has already admitted it.

Take a view, it's good.

They don't work in most cases because "depression" has no pathology....There's no "disease", in the traditional clinical sense, to treat.

Most of today's unquantifiable "disorders" are pretty much dreamed up by PhD candidates, who needed to make a "new discovery" for their dissertations.

Clinical Depression exists. I have it and I suffer major depression pretty much all the time. It is caused mostly by a lack of one or more neurotransmitters in the brain. They have not developed a way to test medically for it.

If there's no way to test for it, then the doctors are just guessing...This is why depression is not a disease in the strictly defined sense...The diagnosis is made on purely anecdotal evidence.

Believe me, I'm not minimizing your particular experience...I'm just saying that the doctors are guessing and people are getting needlessly hooked on antidepressants.

The problem currently is that people that are NOT clinically depressed are diagnosed as such and given pills that won't help them because they have no deficiency of those transmitters.

No, the problem is that there is no way to actually see and physically measure a neurotransmitter, to test if the hypothesis is correct or not.

Kids are the most over diagnosed of the lot. Act up as a teenager naturally does and an over concerned parent or Teacher will get you seen by a therapist or Doctor that has a vested interest in you being depressed.

The local mental health facility went from treating adults and senile old to no old people only about 10 beds for adults and almost exclusively treating teenagers and small children.

Further in children and teenagers the drugs that are common to the current era do not work on them. They actually induce the very effects they are supposed to treat.

Kids are overdiagnosed for just about all unquantifiable and unverifiable "disorders"...It's good to catch the kids while they're young, so they can be programmed to think that they are on the effect end of the world and their bodies....Makes for much more compliant little proles.

 

[geauxtohell]

Anybody watching 60 minutes tonight? If not, watch it online. It's very interesting how some researchers are now saying that antidepressants don't work in mild or moderate cases. Heck, it sounds like the UK has already admitted it.

Take a view, it's good.

They don't work in most cases because "depression" has no pathology....There's no "disease", in the traditional clinical sense, to treat.

Most of today's unquantifiable "disorders" are pretty much dreamed up by PhD candidates, who needed to make a "new discovery" for their dissertations.

That's absurd. There is existant pathology in depression. There is no quantifiable test for the disease. The diagnosis is completely clinical. So are many other diseases. That doesn't mean they don't exist. The notion that psych disorders are created by PhD candidates is also silly. Psychiatrists (MDs) own the DSM IV and not psychologists.

I'd agree that depression is over diagnosed and treated. I'd argue that fact is reflective of the fact that there is a shortage of psychiatrists and GP's are left to do there best.

The dirty little secret of SSRIs, which is not really a secret at all if you've kept up with the literature, is that after accounting for placebo, they aren't nearly as effective as people believe.

That doesn't change the fact that people have benefitted tremendously from them and that they know are showing efficacy in treating anxiety, fibromyalgia, and other disorders.

 

[Oddball]

If there's no quantifiable test, then you cannot say that there's a pathology...That's how real medicine works.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If there's no quantifiable test, then you cannot say that there's a pathology...That's how real medicine works.

Ohh here it comes, the claim that mental disorders are not REAL.

 

[Oddball]

If there's no quantifiable test, then you cannot say that there's a pathology...That's how real medicine works.

Ohh here it comes, the claim that mental disorders are not REAL.

They're just as real as hysterical paralysis and blindness....Both are real and neither have any clinically verifiable pathology.

But do you pump a patient who has hysterical paralysis full of drugs and send them out into the world?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If there's no quantifiable test, then you cannot say that there's a pathology...That's how real medicine works.

Ohh here it comes, the claim that mental disorders are not REAL.

They're just as real as hysterical paralysis and blindness....Both are real and neither have any clinically verifiable pathology.

But do you pump a patient who has hysterical paralysis full of drugs and send them out into the world?

Whether you like it or not medication works on Depression, it is a proven fact that 80 percent of those with clinical depression can be treated with anti depressants.

And you may not want to argue with me as I am living proof. But you keep on advocating that millions be left untreated.

 

[Oddball]

I'm not arguing with you or your experience...Already covered that ground.

I also know that there are an alarmingly large percentage of people who've started taking antidepressants that never stop....Every other medication I can think of that "works", which doesn't deal with a clinically verifiable organic dysfunction like hypertension, doesn't need to be taken for the rest of your life.

Given that, I'd take serious issue with your 80% claim.

 

[geauxtohell]

If there's no quantifiable test, then you cannot say that there's a pathology...That's how real medicine works.

There is also no quantifiable test for tetanus. It's strictly a clinical diagnosis.

Does that mean tetanus also has no pathology?

Thanks for the tip on how "real medicine" works.

 

[Oddball]

If there's no quantifiable test, then you cannot say that there's a pathology...That's how real medicine works.

There is also no quantifiable test for tetanus. It's strictly a clinical diagnosis.

Does that mean tetanus also has no pathology?

Thanks for the tip on how "real medicine" works.

How many times do you need to be inoculated for tetanus?...How can you be inoculated if the pathogen hasn't been, at least loosely, isolated?

OTOH, people go on antidepressants and never ever get off the shit...I think I'd rather be hooked on smack.

 

[Oddball]

This thread reminds me of an oldie but goodie....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZPZG92iYE4]Progenitorivox (The Drugs I Need) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[geauxtohell]

If there's no quantifiable test, then you cannot say that there's a pathology...That's how real medicine works.

There is also no quantifiable test for tetanus. It's strictly a clinical diagnosis.

Does that mean tetanus also has no pathology?

Thanks for the tip on how "real medicine" works.

How many times do you need to be inoculated for tetanus?...How can you be inoculated if the pathogen hasn't been, at least loosely, isolated?

OTOH, people go on antidepressants and never ever get off the shit...I think I'd rather be hooked on smack.

That doesn't answer the question. There is a logical reason whey there are no "quantifiable" tests for psych disorders like depression and schizophrenia. What are you going to do? Get a punch biopsy into the brain's limbic system (deep in the brain)?

Obviously not. It's pure anti-psychiatric propaganda to harp the "no quantifiable tests" line. There are many diagnosis in medicine that are purely clinical. That doesn't impeach anything. It does make psychiatry a very subjective field and gives a large degree of error in diagnosis.

I don't know how many heroin addicts you've dealt with, but I'll assume you are being facetious in claiming that smack is more desirable then SSRIs (which are benign and not addictive).

I don't have much of a dog in this fight. I am going into Emergency Medicine not psychiatry. However, it's galling to see people act like psychiatry is a bunch of made up junk. It is not.

 

[Oddball]

There is also no quantifiable test for tetanus. It's strictly a clinical diagnosis.

Does that mean tetanus also has no pathology?

Thanks for the tip on how "real medicine" works.

How many times do you need to be inoculated for tetanus?...How can you be inoculated if the pathogen hasn't been, at least loosely, isolated?

OTOH, people go on antidepressants and never ever get off the shit...I think I'd rather be hooked on smack.

That doesn't answer the question. There is a logical reason whey there are no "quantifiable" tests for psych disorders like depression and schizophrenia. What are you going to do? Get a punch biopsy into the brain's limbic system (deep in the brain)?

Obviously not. It's pure anti-psychiatric propaganda to harp the "no quantifiable tests" line. There are many diagnosis in medicine that are purely clinical. That doesn't impeach anything. It does make psychiatry a very subjective field and gives a large degree of error in diagnosis.

I don't know how many heroin addicts you've dealt with, but I'll assume you are being facetious in claiming that smack is more desirable then SSRIs (which are benign and not addictive).

I don't have much of a dog in this fight. I am going into Emergency Medicine not psychiatry. However, it's galling to see people act like psychiatry is a bunch of made up junk. It is not.

I'm trained in EMS, advanced NLP and clinical hypnotherapy...I've worked with two very good friends and got them to kick Paxil...Turns out that, for them, getting their moods out of a bottle was getting more depressing than the bullshit in their heads that they were refusing to deal with.

If you're going into EMS then you certainly know the difference between signs and symptoms...All of depression is diagnosed purely off of anecdotal symptoms....That's no propaganda.

 

[Cuyo]

Anybody watching 60 minutes tonight? If not, watch it online. It's very interesting how some researchers are now saying that antidepressants don't work in mild or moderate cases. Heck, it sounds like the UK has already admitted it.

Take a view, it's good.

They are simply wrong. The problem is not that anti depressants don't work, they work on about 80 percent of those afflicted. The problem is current mental health calls EVERYTHING depression. Anti Depressants are not going to work on the supposed mild cases because those people are not clinically depressed, their brain is not short on neurotransmitters. They are being given a drug they don't need.

And a lot of the supposed moderate problems are not clinical either. It has just come to be to easy to label everything as depression and give pills for it when no pills are needed or the problem is something other then clinical depression.

Troosky. There's a big difference between depression and 'The Blues.'

Regardless, in most cases, an hour on the treadmill will do more for you than that little pill. But the pill is much easier, and that's a problem.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If there's no quantifiable test, then you cannot say that there's a pathology...That's how real medicine works.

There is also no quantifiable test for tetanus. It's strictly a clinical diagnosis.

Does that mean tetanus also has no pathology?

Thanks for the tip on how "real medicine" works.

How many times do you need to be inoculated for tetanus?...How can you be inoculated if the pathogen hasn't been, at least loosely, isolated?

OTOH, people go on antidepressants and never ever get off the shit...I think I'd rather be hooked on smack.

Most anti depressants are not addictive at all. None I take are.

I have a permanent condition why would I stop taking my meds? When I do I just get worse.

 

[Oddball]

There is also no quantifiable test for tetanus. It's strictly a clinical diagnosis.

Does that mean tetanus also has no pathology?

Thanks for the tip on how "real medicine" works.

How many times do you need to be inoculated for tetanus?...How can you be inoculated if the pathogen hasn't been, at least loosely, isolated?

OTOH, people go on antidepressants and never ever get off the shit...I think I'd rather be hooked on smack.

Most anti depressants are not addictive at all. None I take are.

I have a permanent condition why would I stop taking my meds? When I do I just get worse.

If it works, why do you need to keep taking it?

Personally, I'd suggest going out and finding the best hypnosis trainer you can find....What do you have to lose?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I have repeating episodes of Major Depression. I am pretty much always suicidal. I just resist the urge to kill myself. I have a family that depends on me and duty commitment and such are important to me. But that is not enough until 2004 when we found the right combo of meds to treat me there were days I simply could not move, cause if I did I would have killed myself. After we found the right meds that became just a constant thought but not over powering. I can deal with the thoughts now they don't run me any more.

I also have delusional paranoia. That can be a problem when I am tired, but I learned long ago how to deal with that usually. I used to hear a voice as well, always just assumed it was me talking to myself but with the meds it is GONE.

Before I quit working I was in and out of the Hospital 2 or 3 times a year. I tried to kill myself in Aug of 99. Meds work. And I have a REAL problem. I suspect my Dad had it too. He dealt with his issues by drinking. My sister has siilar problems. But none of my half siblings do.

This claim that meds don't work or that mental illness doesn't exist is a crock of HORSE SHIT. And you are an EMS advising people to IGNORE a doctor, shame on you.