Anti-Semitism and Zionism

[theliq]

RE: Anti-Semitism and Zionism
※→ theliq, et al,

I'm not sure what is obvious and what is obscured.

Really Rocco,,,,Stop Now...TO BE JEWISH IS TO BE A ZIONIST...IS UTTER RUBBISH AND A LIE

(OBSERVATION)

ψ "Jewish" is a religious term. ( ≈ A relationship between Man and the Supreme Being.")

ψ "Zionist" is a political term. [ ≈ The establishment and preservation of the Jewish National Home (Israel) and the protection of it people.]​

That is how I observe it today.

Most Respectfully,
R

Really !!!!!!!!!!!! But you forgot Zionism equals Terrorism...WHY

You are not discussing, only making accusations.

You are an antisemite who is clearly an anti zionist because you not only do not understand who is who and what is what, you seem to want the world to be as you say it is or should be.

The Jews = Zionists are terrorists?

Are the Kurds also terrorists?

What other people defending their homeland from the attacks of those who keep trying to conquer their land and kill them all would be considered terrorists?

Your only answer is : The Zionists. They are not Jews. They do not belong on the land.

Accusing, alleging all of these things does not make them true and Israel will never live by these endless lies.

Israel will continue to be and to defend itself and its population, all of them, because that is the right the Jewish people earned legally 100 years ago.

The real question is: Why have you ever bought into the allegations that Zionism equals terrorism.

If you can ever figure it out, it will be one more step towards to putting an end to anti semitism.

Good luck, and happy new year in your new search.

Incredulous Answer BY YOU....Never heard of the Stern Group and the other Zionist Terrorist Groups...Stop wasting my time until you have...even some of Israel's Prime Ministers were Zionist Terrorist Murdering Scum

 

[theliq]

RE: Anti-Semitism and Zionism
※→ TheParser, et al,

Yes, as old as I am, I was still able to find it among the myriad of similarly name essays n the same topic.

✪ Vol. 40 No. 01 · 4 January 2018 London Review of Books | The ‘New Anti-Semitism’ | By Neve Gordon •

I do have the confidence, however, to say three things:

1. The author explains in detail how many anti-Semites actually support Zionism.

2. The author himself (a university professor in Israel) supports Palestinian rights.

3. Part of his very last sentence says: "[T]he equation between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism must ... be rejected."​

(COMMENT)

This association on both "Zionist" and an "anti-Semite" surfaces periodically in this discussion group, a well as aperidically on several other discussion forums I've seen.

∆ The logic of the ‘new anti-Semitism’ can be formulated as a syllogism:

i) anti-Semitism is hatred of Jews;
ii) to be Jewish is to be Zionist;
iii) therefore anti-Zionism is anti-Semitic.
​

The discussion appears often enough that what I thought was clear to me, is not clear anymore. In fact, I am beginning to question whether of not a sound and valid conclusion can come of any exchange that is dependent on the understanding of these terms. (But that's just me...)

The identities:

• Zionism "is identical to" Jewishness,​

What is much more clear is the summation that is divorced from these labels. While Neve Gordon mentions that the definition adopted by the current UK government offers 11 examples of anti-Semitism, the Government website says, in about 18 point font,

"The problem of antisemitism continues to be a serious one. One issue is the absence of an agreed international definition of antisemitism."​

You cannot have a sound and valid identity with antisemitism if you cannot define it. The Israelis have to define these terms (self identification); the concept of to know who you are.

On the topic of settlements, and the Administration of Area "C," there are all manner of view and compound view.

Most Respectfully,
R

Really Rocco,,,,Stop Now...TO BE JEWISH IS TO BE A ZIONIST...IS UTTER RUBBISH AND A LIE

Yet another antisemite chimes in.

Zionist Scum,your comments don't count because you lie all the time

 

[theliq]

The fact is, though, that anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism often go together. Otherwise, why did fanger once post a video on the I/P Board of Holocaust denial (because of one charlatan on the Oprah show)?

“Some events do take place but are not true; others are [true],although they never occurred.”

And how true is it that Mohammad's spirit flew to the Al Aqsa Mosque, when there is no reference to it whatsoever.

LIAR Zionist

 

[Sixties Fan]

RE: Anti-Semitism and Zionism
※→ theliq, et al,

I'm not sure what is obvious and what is obscured.

Really Rocco,,,,Stop Now...TO BE JEWISH IS TO BE A ZIONIST...IS UTTER RUBBISH AND A LIE

(OBSERVATION)

ψ "Jewish" is a religious term. ( ≈ A relationship between Man and the Supreme Being.")

ψ "Zionist" is a political term. [ ≈ The establishment and preservation of the Jewish National Home (Israel) and the protection of it people.]​

That is how I observe it today.

Most Respectfully,
R

Really !!!!!!!!!!!! But you forgot Zionism equals Terrorism...WHY

You are not discussing, only making accusations.

You are an antisemite who is clearly an anti zionist because you not only do not understand who is who and what is what, you seem to want the world to be as you say it is or should be.

The Jews = Zionists are terrorists?

Are the Kurds also terrorists?

What other people defending their homeland from the attacks of those who keep trying to conquer their land and kill them all would be considered terrorists?

Your only answer is : The Zionists. They are not Jews. They do not belong on the land.

Accusing, alleging all of these things does not make them true and Israel will never live by these endless lies.

Israel will continue to be and to defend itself and its population, all of them, because that is the right the Jewish people earned legally 100 years ago.

The real question is: Why have you ever bought into the allegations that Zionism equals terrorism.

If you can ever figure it out, it will be one more step towards to putting an end to anti semitism.

Good luck, and happy new year in your new search.

Incredulous Answer BY YOU....Never heard of the Stern Group and the other Zionist Terrorist Groups...Stop wasting my time until you have...even some of Israel's Prime Ministers were Zionist Terrorist Murdering Scum

You are the one wasting everyone's time.

When Arabs and the British did everything in their power, using terrorism and cutting any and all rights Jews had on their ancient land, there were groups pre Israel which had to opt for equal measures of what they were getting. The only solution they saw for the British refusal to protect the Jews and help them recreate their sovereignty over their ancient land, and endless taking away of Jewish rights, was to make the British leave, finally what they should have left at least ten years before Israel declared Independence.

Jews are the indigenous people of the land, and since the non indigenous Arabs were intent in killing all the Jews in order to take all the land for Islam, some Jews ended up doing to them and the British what the Arabs and the British had done to them, which includes murder, restrictions in Jewish immigration as per the Mandate, and expulsion from Jewish majority cities like Hebron.

The Arabs wanted the Mandate for themselves. All of it.
The British gave away 78% of the Mandate to Arabs, and then wanted the rest for themselves.

The Arabs and the British were the terrorists, with each wanting the rest of the Mandate for themselves and only because the Mandate had been about giving back sovereignty to the Jewish Nation.

You are a disgusting anti semite, Jew hater.

Just have the guts to say so, instead of putting the blame on the Jews who were only fighting to stay alive as they built the infrastructure necessary to legally rebuilt and attain sovereignty over any part of their ancient home.

Terrorists, Nazis are the Husseini clan who were hand in hand with the German Nazis and were planning on building concentration camps for Jews and killing all of them at the end of WWII, had the Germans won.


Try again, terrorist liquidator, who wants to see the Husseini dream come to fruition.

As you can see, some dreams like your do turn into nightmares, because the reality is the Jews will never be exterminated, no matter what prayers, and wishes, and bds and all other attempts being made since 1948 will continue to happen.


Jews are the indigenous people of the land.
Arabs are the invaders and terrorists and nazi sympathizers with the dream of making all fo Asia and the world "Jew Free".


No, can do.


Better for you to be upset than for all of us to be dead and gone.

 

[teddyearp]

Who is considered to be Semitic?

 

[abi]

I think that serious students will find it very thoughtful, even if one disagrees with the author's point of view.

Sadly, you find them here. Most of the zionists here can barely read, let alone share honestly what they have read.

For most of the people here who hate the Palestinians, pictures seem to work better.

 

[teddyearp]

Are Palestinians considered semetic?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Anti-Semitism and Zionism
※→ theliq, et al,

Terrorism is something different all together. And terrorism is that act which project psychological anxiety (fear).

• (A/RES/70/291 2016) •

"Reaffirming that the acts, methods and practices of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations are activities aimed at the destruction of human rights, fundamental freedoms and democracy, at threatening territorial integrity and the security of States and at destabilizing legitimately constituted Governments,"​

• (A/RES/70/291 2016) •

"providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including by suppressing recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists;
​

• (S/RES/1624 2005) •

"incitement of terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance poses a serious and growing danger to the enjoyment of human rights, threatens the social and economic development of all States, undermines global stability and prosperity, and must be addressed urgently and proactively by the United Nations and all States,

"Re-emphasizing that continuing international efforts to enhance dialogue and broaden understanding among civilizations, in an effort to prevent the indiscriminate targeting of different religions and cultures, and addressing unresolved regional conflicts and the full range of global issues, including development issues, will contribute to strengthening the international fight against terrorism,"

• International Terrorism and Security Research •

"That is why pre-emption is being considered to be so important. In some cases, terrorism has been a means to carry on a conflict without the adversary realizing the nature of the threat, mistaking terrorism for criminal activity. Because of these characteristics, terrorism has become increasingly common among those pursuing extreme goals throughout the world."

"Terrorism is a criminal act that influences an audience beyond the immediate victim. The strategy of terrorists is to commit acts of violence that draws the attention of the local populace, the government, and the world to their cause. The terrorists plan their attack to obtain the greatest publicity, choosing targets that symbolize what they oppose. The effectiveness of the terrorist act lies not in the act itself, but in the public's or government's reaction to the act. For example, in 1972 at the Munich Olympics, the Black September Organization killed 11 Israelis. The Israelis were the immediate victims. But the true target was the estimated 1 billion people watching the televised event. Those billion people watching were to be introduced to fear - which is terrorism's ultimate goal. The introduction of this fear can be from the threat of physical harm/a grizzly death, financial terrorism from the fear of losing money or negative effects on the economy, cyber terrorism harming the critical technological infrastructures of society and psychological terrorism designed to influence people's behaviour. Terrorism is designed to produce an overreaction and anecdotally, it succeeds at that almost all the time. Societies tend to close themselves off and governments use tactics that restrict and infringe upon everyone."​

I'm not sure what is obvious and what is obscured.

Really Rocco,,,,Stop Now...TO BE JEWISH IS TO BE A ZIONIST...IS UTTER RUBBISH AND A LIE

(OBSERVATION)

ψ "Jewish" is a religious term. ( ≈ A relationship between Man and the Supreme Being.")

ψ "Zionist" is a political term. [ ≈ The establishment and preservation of the Jewish National Home (Israel) and the protection of it people.]​

That is how I observe it today.

Terrorism is a tactic.

Most Respectfully,
R

Really !!!!!!!!!!!! But you forgot Zionism equals Terrorism...WHY

(COMMENT)

Terrorism is a tactic employed to achieve a goal. In a 2012 Position Paper by Khaled Meshal, Former Political Leader of HAMAS, said:

Resistance is a means and not an end, if we have another way without blood and painful sacrifices to liberate the land and ending the occupation and the restoration of rights we would take it, but history proves that there is no option to expel the occupiers and restore the land and rights without using all forms of resistance, led by armed resistance.
​

Most Respectfully,
R​

 

[Sixties Fan]

Are Palestinians considered semetic?

I do not see the need to play with the meaning of words.

Semitic refers to languages. Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, etc.

Because of the non ending refusal of Arabs to share the Mandate for Palestine, we are now seeing Semitic being used to define people, when it should not.

It is about languages and it does not really tell who the indigenous people of Israel, or Arabia, or Lebanon, or Syria, or another part of the area are.

They wish to play that game, I would say let them.

They can say that Ashkenazi are not semitic until they are blue and white in the face. It changes nothing.

They are Jew haters who cannot stand Jews having sovereignty and power.

Too bad.

 

[abi]

RE: Anti-Semitism and Zionism
※→ theliq, et al,

Terrorism is something different all together. And terrorism is that act which project psychological anxiety (fear).

• (A/RES/70/291 2016) •

"Reaffirming that the acts, methods and practices of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations are activities aimed at the destruction of human rights, fundamental freedoms and democracy, at threatening territorial integrity and the security of States and at destabilizing legitimately constituted Governments,"​

• (A/RES/70/291 2016) •

"providing any form of support, active or passive, to entities or persons involved in terrorist acts, including by suppressing recruitment of members of terrorist groups and eliminating the supply of weapons to terrorists;
​

• (S/RES/1624 2005) •

"incitement of terrorist acts motivated by extremism and intolerance poses a serious and growing danger to the enjoyment of human rights, threatens the social and economic development of all States, undermines global stability and prosperity, and must be addressed urgently and proactively by the United Nations and all States,

"Re-emphasizing that continuing international efforts to enhance dialogue and broaden understanding among civilizations, in an effort to prevent the indiscriminate targeting of different religions and cultures, and addressing unresolved regional conflicts and the full range of global issues, including development issues, will contribute to strengthening the international fight against terrorism,"

• International Terrorism and Security Research •

"That is why pre-emption is being considered to be so important. In some cases, terrorism has been a means to carry on a conflict without the adversary realizing the nature of the threat, mistaking terrorism for criminal activity. Because of these characteristics, terrorism has become increasingly common among those pursuing extreme goals throughout the world."

"Terrorism is a criminal act that influences an audience beyond the immediate victim. The strategy of terrorists is to commit acts of violence that draws the attention of the local populace, the government, and the world to their cause. The terrorists plan their attack to obtain the greatest publicity, choosing targets that symbolize what they oppose. The effectiveness of the terrorist act lies not in the act itself, but in the public's or government's reaction to the act. For example, in 1972 at the Munich Olympics, the Black September Organization killed 11 Israelis. The Israelis were the immediate victims. But the true target was the estimated 1 billion people watching the televised event. Those billion people watching were to be introduced to fear - which is terrorism's ultimate goal. The introduction of this fear can be from the threat of physical harm/a grizzly death, financial terrorism from the fear of losing money or negative effects on the economy, cyber terrorism harming the critical technological infrastructures of society and psychological terrorism designed to influence people's behaviour. Terrorism is designed to produce an overreaction and anecdotally, it succeeds at that almost all the time. Societies tend to close themselves off and governments use tactics that restrict and infringe upon everyone."​

I'm not sure what is obvious and what is obscured.

Really Rocco,,,,Stop Now...TO BE JEWISH IS TO BE A ZIONIST...IS UTTER RUBBISH AND A LIE

(OBSERVATION)

ψ "Jewish" is a religious term. ( ≈ A relationship between Man and the Supreme Being.")

ψ "Zionist" is a political term. [ ≈ The establishment and preservation of the Jewish National Home (Israel) and the protection of it people.]​

That is how I observe it today.

Terrorism is a tactic.

Most Respectfully,
R

Really !!!!!!!!!!!! But you forgot Zionism equals Terrorism...WHY

(COMMENT)

Terrorism is a tactic employed to achieve a goal. In a 2012 Position Paper by Khaled Meshal, Former Political Leader of HAMAS, said:

Resistance is a means and not an end, if we have another way without blood and painful sacrifices to liberate the land and ending the occupation and the restoration of rights we would take it, but history proves that there is no option to expel the occupiers and restore the land and rights without using all forms of resistance, led by armed resistance.
​

Most Respectfully,
R​

HAHA, look at our favorite zionist mouthpiece posting on the wrong thread again. This guy doesn't even read the opening posts.

 

[abi]

1. The author explains in detail how many anti-Semites actually support Zionism.

This comes directly from Herzl in his diary:
"It would be an excellent idea to call in respectable, accredited anti-Semites as liquidators of property. To the people they would vouch for the fact that we do not wish to bring about the impoverishment of the countries that we leave. At first they must not be given large fees for this; otherwise we shall spoil our instruments and make them despicable as 'stooges of the Jews.' Later their fees will increase, and in the end we shall have only Gentile officials in the countries from which we have emigrated. The anti-Semites will become our most dependable friends, the anti-Semitic countries our allies." (The Complete Diaries of Theodor Herzl. Vol. 1, edited by Raphael Patai, translated by Harry Zohn, page 83-84)

2. The author himself (a university professor in Israel) supports Palestinian rights.

Many Jews, the world over, support the Palestinian people and see zionism as the greatest danger not only to Palestine, but to the Jewish people as well.

3. Part of his very last sentence says: "[T]he equation between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism must ... be rejected."

Anyone who has studied this simple topic knows this. When one is charged with antisemitism, it generally means that they have brought up a point that the zionists don't want spoken of. The antisemitism charge is a trick the zionists use to keep their crimes hidden and they have admitted this:
Former Israeli minister, Shulamit Aloni, fearlessly admitted that "anti-Semitism is a trick that we always use"

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Who is considered to be Semitic?

Jews, Arabs, Arameans, etc. are all Semitic peoples. However, in the English lexicon, anti-Semitic has come to mean "anti-Jewish." If anyone finds this technically incorrect, they can go over the posts and substitute the words "anti-Jewish" instead. Just semantics.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Who is considered to be Semitic?

Jews, Arabs, Arameans, etc. are all Semitic peoples. However, in the English lexicon, anti-Semitic has come to mean "anti-Jewish." If anyone finds this technically incorrect, they can go over the posts and substitute the words "anti-Jewish" instead. Just semantics.

Please, there has never, ever, been a semitic people.

Semitic refers to languages.

An anti Jews German in the 19th century coined antisemitic as being anti Jews. Jews only.

Anti Jews like to think that semitic refers to all people who live in the area of Israel and outside of it, including Arabia, Syria, etc.

Let us not help them keep up this fantasy.

 

[teddyearp]

Who is considered to be Semitic?

Jews, Arabs, Arameans, etc. are all Semitic peoples. However, in the English lexicon, anti-Semitic has come to mean "anti-Jewish." If anyone finds this technically incorrect, they can go over the posts and substitute the words "anti-Jewish" instead. Just semantics.

Yes indeed it can be considered a matter of semantics but bear with me.

I am still waiting to see if any pro-palestinians consider the Palestinians to be semetic.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Who is considered to be Semitic?

Jews, Arabs, Arameans, etc. are all Semitic peoples. However, in the English lexicon, anti-Semitic has come to mean "anti-Jewish." If anyone finds this technically incorrect, they can go over the posts and substitute the words "anti-Jewish" instead. Just semantics.

Yes indeed it can be considered a matter of semantics but bear with me.

I am still waiting to see if any pro-palestinians consider the Palestinians to be semetic.

And my question.....for fun.... would be....

Semitic to what?

A land? A language? A religion? An ideology?

The Palestinians are most definitely semitic to their Islamic ideology.

[ Preoccupied Territory take off ]

 

[teddyearp]

Just let's wait and see what any pro-palestinians have to say. Patience grasshopper.

 

[P F Tinmore]

• (A/RES/70/291 2016) •

"Reaffirming that the acts, methods and practices of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations are activities aimed at the destruction of human rights, fundamental freedoms and democracy, at threatening territorial integrity and the security of States and at destabilizing legitimately constituted Governments,"

The Palestinians are opposite to all of these. They do not match the definition of terrorism.

 

[Sixties Fan]

• (A/RES/70/291 2016) •

"Reaffirming that the acts, methods and practices of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations are activities aimed at the destruction of human rights, fundamental freedoms and democracy, at threatening territorial integrity and the security of States and at destabilizing legitimately constituted Governments,"

The Palestinians are opposite to all of these. They do not match the definition of terrorism.

And when the PLO attacked people in Jordan and Lebanon only to be expelled by both countries.....what were those Palestinians doing which got them kicked out ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

• (A/RES/70/291 2016) •

"Reaffirming that the acts, methods and practices of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations are activities aimed at the destruction of human rights, fundamental freedoms and democracy, at threatening territorial integrity and the security of States and at destabilizing legitimately constituted Governments,"

The Palestinians are opposite to all of these. They do not match the definition of terrorism.

And when the PLO attacked people in Jordan and Lebanon only to be expelled by both countries.....what were those Palestinians doing which got them kicked out ?

Good question. Why were they in Jordan and Lebanon?

 

[rylah]

• (A/RES/70/291 2016) •

"Reaffirming that the acts, methods and practices of terrorism in all its forms and manifestations are activities aimed at the destruction of human rights, fundamental freedoms and democracy, at threatening territorial integrity and the security of States and at destabilizing legitimately constituted Governments,"

The Palestinians are opposite to all of these. They do not match the definition of terrorism.

And when the PLO attacked people in Jordan and Lebanon only to be expelled by both countries.....what were those Palestinians doing which got them kicked out ?

Good question. Why were they in Jordan and Lebanon?

You're evading - he gave good examples of Palestinian militias - "threatening territorial integrity and the security of States and at destabilizing legitimately constituted Governments"