Another stupid question on speculators

[SniperFire]

Funny you never hear about the speculators when the price goes down. D0 they just disappear into thin air and reappear when the prices go up?

No, the last one holding the bag loses his ass.

You could say the same thing about any commodity. Do you whine when the price of bacon goes down and some poor trader takes a loss?

 

[uscitizen]

All commodity speculators should have to take delivery of all the futures they purchase.

Where would a trader put 5,000 barrels of oil or 500,000 bu of corn?

 

[JRK]

All commodity speculators should have to take delivery of all the futures they purchase.

Where would a trader put 5,000 barrels of oil or 500,000 bu of corn?

not sure
speculation on oil to Apple (I know with that one) can burn you as much as make you rich

 

[uscitizen]

If you promise by contract to buy something at a future date at a specified price you should have to take delivery of that commodity.
That is commodity futures trading.
Or at least that is how it started out.

If only users of commodities bid on futures then the law of supply and demand would work.

 

[g5000]

Exxon makes 8% profit about every year
How is it they can do that with the price of oil at a level that is driven by pure speculation?

If oil is 50 dollars a barrel, what is their profit if their margin is 8 percent?

Very good! 4 dollars!

If oil is 100 dollars a barrel, what is their profit if their margin is 8 percent?

Well done! 8 dollars!

They make "record profits" when the price goes up, see?

Now how hard was that?

Who is it that ends up with these speculated cost?

Us. The people who put gas in the tank of our car.

So you and I end up with those speculated profits?

You seem to think "cost" and "profits" are synonymous!

You asked who "ends up with these speculated costs". Not profits.

We the consumer pay the costs of speculation. Every time we fill up our tank with $4.00/gallon gas.

And what about the 50 cents a gallon of taxes we pay? you never mentioned that have you?

You didn't ask about gas tax, fool!

What does that have to do with speculation?

 

[g5000]

Funny you never hear about the speculators when the price goes down. D0 they just disappear into thin air and reappear when the prices go up?

No, the last one holding the bag loses his ass.

You could say the same thing about any commodity. Do you whine when the price of bacon goes down and some poor trader takes a loss?

I made a lot of money last year on commodities. I had a record year. The guy left holding the bag is frequently the guy who is managing your retirement fund. Traders live to rip their faces off. So if you don't mind the comfort of your old age being stolen, who am I to complain?

And if you don't mind paying four bucks for a gallon of gas due in large part to speculators, who am I to complain?

I'm doing just fine over here, thanks to people like you and your fund managers who have no clue what's really going on in the markets.

 

[g5000]

So you and I end up with those speculated profits?

Nope. Traders on the commodities desks at JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, and the like end up with the profits. What do you think prop trading is? You think derivatives of home loans are the sole commerce of Wall Street?

 

[Misty]

EXxon is a public company with shareholders. Everyone owns a piece of it and the best way to earn back the high prices you pay for gas is to own a piece of the product.

Idiots!!!! You want companies to do well so you can buy a few shares and do well too.

 

[JRK]

If oil is 50 dollars a barrel, what is their profit if their margin is 8 percent?

Very good! 4 dollars!

If oil is 100 dollars a barrel, what is their profit if their margin is 8 percent?

Well done! 8 dollars!

They make "record profits" when the price goes up, see?

Now how hard was that?




Us. The people who put gas in the tank of our car.

So you and I end up with those speculated profits?

You seem to think "cost" and "profits" are synonymous!

You asked who "ends up with these speculated costs". Not profits.

We the consumer pay the costs of speculation. Every time we fill up our tank with $4.00/gallon gas.

And what about the 50 cents a gallon of taxes we pay? you never mentioned that have you?

You didn't ask about gas tax, fool!

What does that have to do with speculation?

Fool huh? well that is original
The question is simple
Profits and cost do go hand in hand
Where does this event take place?
If your ideals and your beliefs that speculation is why we pay so much for gas, then when does this event take place?

One more thing, your the one who brought up the cost at the pump
8% profit on 3.00 is 24 pennies
then you have about 50 cents of taxes added not including corporate taxes
http://www.api.org/statistics/fueltaxes/upload/gasoline-diesel-summary.pdf

 

[uscitizen]

EXxon is a public company with shareholders. Everyone owns a piece of it and the best way to earn back the high prices you pay for gas is to own a piece of the product.

Idiots!!!! You want companies to do well so you can buy a few shares and do well too.

Why work? just play the market. We do not need to actually produce anything.

 

[JRK]

EXxon is a public company with shareholders. Everyone owns a piece of it and the best way to earn back the high prices you pay for gas is to own a piece of the product.

Idiots!!!! You want companies to do well so you can buy a few shares and do well too.

Why work? just play the market. We do not need to actually produce anything.

have you seen the market the last 2 weeks?
OMG
Apple has hurt my feelings
your right about Exxon and stocks though
another plus from these "speculators"

 

[Ariux]

really? pennies huh?
Motiva completes Port Arthur refinery expansion, becomes largest in US | Hydrocarbon Processing | April 2012
The startup is among the finishing touches on a 5-year expansion project that cost approximately $7 billion.

Over 10 years, that works out to about 15 cents per gallon (at peak capacity) for the expansion. That expansion will run for decades. If the expansion runs 50 years, that's 3 cents per gallon. And, that makes it one the most expensive refineries per gallon in the country. The original refinery was build in 1902.

About ten years ago, gas cost about $1.35/gallon at the pump. So, unless you think everyone is as stupid, you know we know that all costs combined, to bring gas from the ground to the pump, other than the market premium (of pure profit), has to be below $1.35 (plus what little inflation there has been). Even at a $1.35, the oil companies were making $billions in profits.

 

[JRK]

really? pennies huh?
Motiva completes Port Arthur refinery expansion, becomes largest in US | Hydrocarbon Processing | April 2012
The startup is among the finishing touches on a 5-year expansion project that cost approximately $7 billion.

Over 10 years, that works out to about 15 cents per gallon (at peak capacity) for the expansion. That expansion will run for decades. If the expansion runs 50 years, that's 3 cents per gallon. And, that makes it one the most expensive refineries per gallon in the country. The original refinery was build in 1902.

About ten years ago, gas cost about $1.35/gallon at the pump. So, unless you think everyone is as stupid, you know we know that all costs combined, to bring gas from the ground to the pump, other than the market premium (of pure profit), has to be below $1.35 (plus what little inflation there has been). Even at a $1.35, the oil companies were making $billions in profits.

gas was 1.85 a gallon when BHO took office
And yes oil companies makes billions in profit
There suppose to
Now exactly how do you calculate your 15 cents a gallon?

Any way were are they hiding all of this money?
I mean Exxon makes 8% profit
on 1 dollar that is 8 pennies
Where is the rest of that money at?

So your saying that gas should be 1.35?
well 1.85 with taxes?
well 1.95 if you add corporate income tax also

so what is it?
How do you come up with 1.35 a gallon? Oil is about 100 a barrel
then of course you have to store it
and then distribute it
then it gets distributed again with one of those 4 MPG diesels and a driver who makes 60-80k a year plus benefits

plus you may have to pay royalties, and then pay taxes on those royalties

did I mention there is 50 cents a gallon on taxes, not including corporate taxes?

http://www.api.org/statistics/fueltaxes/upload/gasoline-diesel-summary.pdf

 

[alan1]

Another stupid question on speculators

Back a few years ago, there was this destructive hurricane named Katrina that plowed through the gulf and into Louisiana. One side effect of that hurricane was that some oil drilling in the gulf was halted and so was a lot of refining of oil in Louisiana. The price of gas in the southeastern USA was rising multiple times a day. Not only that, the supply of gas was in question. I saw people at gas stations not only filling their car with gas, but they were also filling any gas cans they had, just in case they couldn't get gas tomorrow or next week.

These were ordinary people, not wall street big-wigs, but they were speculating just the same, just on a smaller scale, but the impact was the same. That activity exacerbated the price increases.

 

[JRK]

Another stupid question on speculators

Back a few years ago, there was this destructive hurricane named Katrina that plowed through the gulf and into Louisiana. One side effect of that hurricane was that some oil drilling in the gulf was halted and so was a lot of refining of oil in Louisiana. The price of gas in the southeastern USA was rising multiple times a day. Not only that, the supply of gas was in question. I saw people at gas stations not only filling their car with gas, but they were also filling any gas cans they had, just in case they couldn't get gas tomorrow or next week.

These were ordinary people, not wall street big-wigs, but they were speculating just the same, just on a smaller scale, but the impact was the same. That activity exacerbated the price increases.

same principle as well as a very nice avatar

 

[Ariux]

Now exactly how do you calculate your 15 cents a gallon?

The expansion increases refinery capacity by about 13 million gallons of gas per day.

Any way were are they hiding all of this money?
I mean Exxon makes 8% profit

In off-shore tax havens, expensed-out in exec stock options and affiliated-company transactions, etc.

So your saying that gas should be 1.35?
well 1.85 with taxes?

$1.35, including taxes, before the Iraq war. I'm not aware of any new taxes added in the last decade.

How do you come up with 1.35 a gallon? Oil is about 100 a barrel
then of course you have to store it

The price at the pump a decade ago, plus inflation, puts an upper-limit on the actual production costs (with decent profit) for most gas. The bulk of the price increase in the last decade are not due to increases in production cost.

Your detailing various costs is a bullshit tactic:

Then of course the delivery from the distributor after
exploration
drilling
extraction
delivery
refinement
storage
delivery
Income taxes
corporate taxes
fuel taxes

 

[JRK]

Now exactly how do you calculate your 15 cents a gallon?

The expansion increases refinery capacity by about 13 million gallons of gas per day.

Any way were are they hiding all of this money?
I mean Exxon makes 8% profit

In off-shore tax havens, expensed-out in exec stock options and affiliated-company transactions, etc.



$1.35, including taxes, before the Iraq war. I'm not aware of any new taxes added in the last decade.

How do you come up with 1.35 a gallon? Oil is about 100 a barrel
then of course you have to store it

The price at the pump a decade ago, plus inflation, puts an upper-limit on the actual production costs (with decent profit) for most gas. The bulk of the price increase in the last decade are not due to increases in production cost.

Your detailing various costs is a bullshit tactic:

Then of course the delivery from the distributor after
exploration
drilling
extraction
delivery
refinement
storage
delivery
Income taxes
corporate taxes
fuel taxes

So if I make 1 million dollars profit in the US
and I send those profits to an off shore account
I will never have to pat taxes on it?

Let me get this straight
to prevent paying taxes on profits made you just send that profit to an off shore bank account?

So how do you show this transaction on your yearly tax documents?
"Oh by the way we made profit, but we sent it to an off shore bank account so we will not have to pay taxes on it form"
you got a link to that one?

While they were recording record profits last year, they were also writing checks to Uncle Sam to the tune of $100.7 billion -- two and a half times what they made in net profit. In fact, previous Tax Foundation research found that from 1977 to 2004, federal and state governments extracted $397 billion by taxing the profits of the largest oil companies and an additional $1.1 trillion in taxes at the pump. In today's dollars, that's $2.2 trillion.

The Tax Foundation - ExxonMobil's Record Profits -- And Record Taxes

 

[candycorn]

EXxon is a public company with shareholders. Everyone owns a piece of it and the best way to earn back the high prices you pay for gas is to own a piece of the product.

Idiots!!!! You want companies to do well so you can buy a few shares and do well too.

Why work? just play the market. We do not need to actually produce anything.

Theres a great idea; Buy about 20 shares of a dividend paying stock every year for your kid. By the time they are 20, you've bought 400 shares. If the quarterly dividend is about $1 or so per share, that's over $100 per month that goes toward bills, clothes, food, etc... Something to get them out the door with.

 

[JRK]

EXxon is a public company with shareholders. Everyone owns a piece of it and the best way to earn back the high prices you pay for gas is to own a piece of the product.

Idiots!!!! You want companies to do well so you can buy a few shares and do well too.

Why work? just play the market. We do not need to actually produce anything.

Theres a great idea; Buy about 20 shares of a dividend paying stock every year for your kid. By the time they are 20, you've bought 400 shares. If the quarterly dividend is about $1 or so per share, that's over $100 per month that goes toward bills, clothes, food, etc... Something to get them out the door with.

wow CC
I am impressed

 

[Ariux]

So if I make 1 million dollars profit in the US
and I send those profits to an off shore account
I will never have to pat taxes on it?

If you can claim the income is to an off-shore partner or subsidiary, or if you can on-paper expense income to said entity, you won't have pay taxes on it. I didn't say anything about an off-shore account.

While they were recording record profits last year, they were also writing checks to Uncle Sam to the tune of $100.7 billion -- two and a half times what they made in net profit. In fact, previous Tax Foundation research found that from 1977 to 2004, federal and state governments extracted $397 billion by taxing the profits of the largest oil companies and an additional $1.1 trillion in taxes at the pump. In today's dollars, that's $2.2 trillion.

Are you claiming that oil companies pay a 250% ("two and a half times what they made in net profit") tax rate, not 8%? That $100.7 billion figure is bogus, and your link doesn't tell where the number comes from (it does, but their link is dead).

Oh, gas "taxes at the pump" are taxes on the oil companies? I think that's taxes on consumers.