Another poll on seriousness of possible default

[Annie]

The GOP better hope there is a deal. If the country defaults...well...all the polls tell us who will be blamed.

Ronald Reagan increased the debt ceiling 18 times in 8 years. Not a peep from his own party.

having to harken back to Reagan says a lot. When has the US faced a deficit of this magnitude, in tandem with no budget for over 2 years?

 

[dilloduck]

Not so fast Rabbi!

Top economist: Raise the debt ceiling or blow the recovery 'out of the water'

“If we get to August 2 and there is no debt ceiling limit, and there has to be significant spending cuts – even if Congress and the administration reverse themselves days later, I think the damage will have been serious, and we probably would be thrown into a recession,” Zandi said.
Top economist: Raise the debt ceiling or blow the recovery 'out of the water' - CSMonitor.com

The US still hasn't recovered from the last recession and even if the debt ceiling is addressed quickly after August 2nd, we may already be in a hole we will not be able to dig out for years!
Exactly how much further do you want the US economy to sink?
And while the US sinks, other countries enjoy the spoils. Already international corporations are not investing in their American operations because of lack of demand, more jobs are going overseas. Another recession would accelerate that movement away from the US.
It will take years for the US economy to recover and by that time the US will be behind the eight ball.

And raising the debt ceiling will help how ?

From the articile about Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody's Analytics thoughts.

" Why would even a short government shutdown have such a major impact? It's psychology, Zandi says.

“The collective psyche is extremely fragile, I think. As I talk to business people in every industry across the country, they are extraordinarily nervous. That’s why if anything goes slightly wrong, the negative consequences are amplified.”

Business executives are not the only ones whose confidence is shaky. The Conference Board, a business research group, said Wednesday that confidence among U.S. consumers unexpectedly fell in June to a seven-month low. One factor in declining consumer confidence: a tough job market. The percent of respondents expecting an increase in job availability fell to the lowest in 11 months, the business group said."
Top economist: Raise the debt ceiling or blow the recovery 'out of the water' - CSMonitor.com

Raising the ceiling debt would help investment. As it's well documented, Wall Street is extremely nervous about the repercussions of not raising the debt ceiling so are Big Businesses and small businesses. That's a no-brainer. It would help prevent a second recession. Isn't that enough?
If people would listen to non-partisan economists instead of talking heads, who are driven by ideology, people would have a better grasp of reality.
The Economist is a conservative economic magazine, you'd be very, very hard pressed to find any article that encourages not raising the debt ceiling. Check it out and learn.

If you don't think 'non-partisan economists' have a dog in this hunt, I got a bridge to sell ya.

 

[dilloduck]

The GOP better hope there is a deal. If the country defaults...well...all the polls tell us who will be blamed.

Ronald Reagan increased the debt ceiling 18 times in 8 years. Not a peep from his own party.

Opponents of raising the debt ceiling don't give a shit who is in charge of what or who did what when. They want all the borrowing and spending to stop NOW. They are willing to deal with the default threats.

 

[Hum Dinger]

The GOP better hope there is a deal. If the country defaults...well...all the polls tell us who will be blamed.

Ronald Reagan increased the debt ceiling 18 times in 8 years. Not a peep from his own party.

Opponents of raising the debt ceiling don't give a shit who is in charge of what or who did what when. They want all the borrowing and spending to stop NOW. They are willing to deal with the default threats.

Default isn't a threat.

 

[dilloduck]

The GOP better hope there is a deal. If the country defaults...well...all the polls tell us who will be blamed.

Ronald Reagan increased the debt ceiling 18 times in 8 years. Not a peep from his own party.

Opponents of raising the debt ceiling don't give a shit who is in charge of what or who did what when. They want all the borrowing and spending to stop NOW. They are willing to deal with the default threats.

Default isn't a threat.

nor is it inevitable.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Anybody that thinks that a U.S. governement default would be anything less than catastrophic, doesn't understand economics.

The entire world's economiy is dependant on the validity of the U.S. Government. $14T in bonds holders, ranging from private individuals, corporations and governments have invested in the U.S. governement. They're investments become worthless.

All landlords who depend on their tenants SS are screwed.

All banks that have invested in Bonds are screwed.

The healthcare industry, without medicare payments is screwed.

The U.S. government contractors are screwed.

All paychecks will stop.

The list goes on and on, but what really matters is that in economics, everything is inter-related. A minor failure in one area of economics will cascade into a major econic castastrophe.

Did anybody learn anything from the mortgage defaults and credit default swap problems just a few years ago?

Anyone of the above defaults is more than likely to cascade into a major economic catastrophe. All of them combined will certainly create economic havoc at a level we've never seen before.

But, don't worry, with the U.S. dollar worthless, Chinese currency will become the world's currency reserve.

Of course the Chinese will have their own financial disaster to deal with. But they're well positioned for this - they have a COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT - they can NATIONALIZE all forgein industries in the blink of an eye. They'll stabilize while the rest of the world reels.

The end of the American century and the beginning of the Chinese millenia!

Just what the Tea Party was planning all along.

and yet, why is there no budget? Why not last year, when the Democrats controlled both houses and the Presidency? Why didn't Obama take this seriously months ago?

You obviously have no clue what the debt ceiling is. Raising it has absolutely nothing to do with the budget negotiations and never has.

We could very well raise the debt ceiling and not change the budget at all.

The whole debt ceiling crisis is entirely fabricated by the Republicans.

 

[Hum Dinger]

Opponents of raising the debt ceiling don't give a shit who is in charge of what or who did what when. They want all the borrowing and spending to stop NOW. They are willing to deal with the default threats.

Default isn't a threat.

nor is it inevitable.

If they do not raise the debt ceiling, then default is inevitable - and anyone that says differently either does not know what they are talking about, or is lying.

 

[Trajan]

here are the FACTS- the house has created, voted upon and passed 2 plans.

the dems? they have not a thing even on paper. the initiative has been taken by the house, the dem senate plays games, the gang of 6 have zip on paper, it will take 2-3 weeks to get that done and to the cbo for analysis........


Obamas part in this? has been minuscule, the usual verbal horse feathers, he has produced not a thing. But the media has made you think otherwise, sheeple...period.

 

[shintao]

here are the FACTS- the house has created, voted upon and passed 2 plans.

the dems? they have not a thing even on paper. the initiative has been taken by the house, the dem senate plays games, the gang of 6 have zip on paper, it will take 2-3 weeks to get that done and to the cbo for analysis........


Obamas part in this? has been minuscule, the usual verbal horse feathers, he has produced not a thing. But the media has made you think otherwise, sheeple...period.

The fact is, we only need to raise the debt ceiling, and all the plans be damned.

 

[The Rabbi]

here are the FACTS- the house has created, voted upon and passed 2 plans.

the dems? they have not a thing even on paper. the initiative has been taken by the house, the dem senate plays games, the gang of 6 have zip on paper, it will take 2-3 weeks to get that done and to the cbo for analysis........


Obamas part in this? has been minuscule, the usual verbal horse feathers, he has produced not a thing. But the media has made you think otherwise, sheeple...period.

The fact is, we only need to raise the debt ceiling, and all the plans be damned.

True.
So why did the Democrats in the House vote down the "clean bill" the Geithner and Obama specifically wanted?

 

[Hum Dinger]

here are the FACTS- the house has created, voted upon and passed 2 plans.

the dems? they have not a thing even on paper. the initiative has been taken by the house, the dem senate plays games, the gang of 6 have zip on paper, it will take 2-3 weeks to get that done and to the cbo for analysis........


Obamas part in this? has been minuscule, the usual verbal horse feathers, he has produced not a thing. But the media has made you think otherwise, sheeple...period.

You apparently don't know too much about how the government functions - it's all in the Constitution:

Section 7
1: All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

Neither the president or the Senate have the power to introduce this legisation. It must come from the House. They can make it clear thru negotiation what the President will and will not veto, and what the Senate is likely to pass, but the bill must originate in the house.

Only the Republican majority can determine what bills are brought to the floor of the house, so nothing that the President or Senate proposes can be considered until the house Republicans agree.

 

[Hum Dinger]

here are the FACTS- the house has created, voted upon and passed 2 plans.

the dems? they have not a thing even on paper. the initiative has been taken by the house, the dem senate plays games, the gang of 6 have zip on paper, it will take 2-3 weeks to get that done and to the cbo for analysis........


Obamas part in this? has been minuscule, the usual verbal horse feathers, he has produced not a thing. But the media has made you think otherwise, sheeple...period.

The fact is, we only need to raise the debt ceiling, and all the plans be damned.

True.
So why did the Democrats in the House vote down the "clean bill" the Geithner and Obama specifically wanted?

What "Clean Bill"? Links please.

 

[The Rabbi]

here are the FACTS- the house has created, voted upon and passed 2 plans.

the dems? they have not a thing even on paper. the initiative has been taken by the house, the dem senate plays games, the gang of 6 have zip on paper, it will take 2-3 weeks to get that done and to the cbo for analysis........


Obamas part in this? has been minuscule, the usual verbal horse feathers, he has produced not a thing. But the media has made you think otherwise, sheeple...period.

You apparently don't know too much about how the government functions - it's all in the Constitution:

Section 7
1: All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

Neither the president or the Senate have the power to introduce this legisation. It must come from the House. They can make it clear thru negotiation what the President will and will not veto, and what the Senate is likely to pass, but the bill must originate in the house.

Only the Republican majority can determine what bills are brought to the floor of the house, so nothing that the President or Senate proposes can be considered until the house Republicans agree.

You're an ignorant fool. You realize that, right?
The house voted on 2 plans and passed them THey then went to the Senate. Where Harry Reid refused to bring them up for discussion.
When the Dums were busy thinking up ways to kill granny to save money for obamacare, the GOP actually produced a plan that would do in fact what the Dems said they wanted to do in theory. It never got a hearing.
Where is teh Democratic proposal for dealing with this issue?
Where is the Democratic budget for the last 2 years?

 

[The Rabbi]

The fact is, we only need to raise the debt ceiling, and all the plans be damned.

True.
So why did the Democrats in the House vote down the "clean bill" the Geithner and Obama specifically wanted?

What "Clean Bill"? Links please.

Go ******* google it yourself, you lazy buffoon. The GOP proposed a bill and Democrats killed it. It's in the record.

 

[Meister]

here are the FACTS- the house has created, voted upon and passed 2 plans.

the dems? they have not a thing even on paper. the initiative has been taken by the house, the dem senate plays games, the gang of 6 have zip on paper, it will take 2-3 weeks to get that done and to the cbo for analysis........


Obamas part in this? has been minuscule, the usual verbal horse feathers, he has produced not a thing. But the media has made you think otherwise, sheeple...period.

The fact is, we only need to raise the debt ceiling, and all the plans be damned.

, we have to curb the spending Shintao...we can't keep raising the debt ceiling without curbs....we ARE going bankrupt.

 

[Meister]

The GOP better hope there is a deal. If the country defaults...well...all the polls tell us who will be blamed.

Ronald Reagan increased the debt ceiling 18 times in 8 years. Not a peep from his own party.

Opponents of raising the debt ceiling don't give a shit who is in charge of what or who did what when. They want all the borrowing and spending to stop NOW. They are willing to deal with the default threats.

Default isn't a threat.

Yeah....it is. Again, (look at the numbers).....we take in aprox. 200,000,000,000 a month, we spend aprox. 20,000,000,000 a month on our loan obligations. The only way that we would default is that we would refuse to prioritize. Only a complete buffoon would let that happen. So please keep up with your partisan hackery...I expect nothing less out of you.

 

[dilloduck]

here are the FACTS- the house has created, voted upon and passed 2 plans.

the dems? they have not a thing even on paper. the initiative has been taken by the house, the dem senate plays games, the gang of 6 have zip on paper, it will take 2-3 weeks to get that done and to the cbo for analysis........


Obamas part in this? has been minuscule, the usual verbal horse feathers, he has produced not a thing. But the media has made you think otherwise, sheeple...period.

The fact is, we only need to raise the debt ceiling, and all the plans be damned.

Spoken like a true community organizer who can move on and won't have to pay up.

 

[BDBoop]

That comes to $1,350 billion. In other words, aside from payroll taxes, our entire tax base — income taxes, excise taxes, estate taxes, customs duties, everything — is just barely enough to pay for our military, the non-hospital part of Medicare, and interest on the debt. Finis. If you want to fully fund those parts of government, as most tea partiers do, and if you also want to force a balanced budget by not raising the debt ceiling, as most tea partiers do, you literally have to zero out the entire rest of the federal government. No Medicaid, no FAA, no border patrol, no FBI, no embassies, no highways, no disaster relief, no SEC, no court systems, no prisons, no national parks, no CIA, no school lunches, no medical care for children, no SNAP, no flood control, no student loans, no medical research, no nothing. You get Social Security, Medicare, the military, and interest on the debt. That's it.

Capiche?

So - by all means. Push the button.

Four Programs | Mother Jones

 

[Meister]

That comes to $1,350 billion. In other words, aside from payroll taxes, our entire tax base — income taxes, excise taxes, estate taxes, customs duties, everything — is just barely enough to pay for our military, the non-hospital part of Medicare, and interest on the debt. Finis. If you want to fully fund those parts of government, as most tea partiers do, and if you also want to force a balanced budget by not raising the debt ceiling, as most tea partiers do, you literally have to zero out the entire rest of the federal government. No Medicaid, no FAA, no border patrol, no FBI, no embassies, no highways, no disaster relief, no SEC, no court systems, no prisons, no national parks, no CIA, no school lunches, no medical care for children, no SNAP, no flood control, no student loans, no medical research, no nothing. You get Social Security, Medicare, the military, and interest on the debt. That's it.

Capiche?

So - by all means. Push the button.

Four Programs | Mother Jones

Yet, our government keeps spending money we don't have on their pet projects along with paying back unions and other special interest groups. If we just grow the government, that would be the be all, end all of our problems, right?
What needs to be done is going to hurt before it can get better, there will have to be deep cuts made and I don't think our politicians are up for the challenge. Not too far in the future China and probably India will have surpassed us with their economies.

 

[Ernie S.]

YOU LIPS ARE MOVING AGAIN!

Obama proposal would cut deficit by $4 trillion in 12 years - BostonHerald.com

Now it's 12 years?


I thought it was 10, yesterday

10... 12... who cares it's all bullshit with no substance. 4 trillion in 12 years is 400 billion/year. What about the other trillion/year in deficit spending? So in 12 years in stead of being 14 1/2 trillion in the whole, we'll be 27 trillion down?