Student Behavior: "We're At a Crisis Point"--NEA

[sparky]

It's not "indoctrination" or whatever. The problem really is not from the top-down; it's from the bottom-up.

Ok Sue, we can view it that way too, enter all the liberal prog policies voted in by lib progs.......usually these folks will distance themselves from the consequences of any of their advocacy .......~S~

 

[Woodznutz]

There are no, "Big Feelings". That is just called out-of-control rage.

It stops when there are real-life consequences for the behavior. Consequences that OTHERS see. It used to be called, "Making an example" of someone to deter the behavior.

There is a life truth that people seem to have forgotten.

If you tolerate bad behavior, you just get more of it.

I believe that most of the time the kids don't even understand why they are behaving badly. I base this on my own experience of bad behavior during grade school. I remember my first incident. It was in kindergarten.

The teacher had assembled corrugated boxes as a make-believe railroad train and the kids would pretend they were riding a train. I had taken a crayon and made swirlies on the front box to represent the steam exhaust that came out of the engine's pistons. I was punished for defacing the boxes. I lived right next to the railroad tracks and saw huge steam locomotives every day and I wanted the event to be more realistic. I didn't realize that I was misbehaving.

 

[sparky]

So what works here?

~S~

 

[SweetSue92]

I believe that most of the time the kids don't even understand why they are behaving badly. I base this on my own experience of bad behavior during grade school. I remember my first incident. It was in kindergarten.

The teacher had assembled corrugated boxes as a make-believe railroad train and the kids would pretend they were riding a train. I had taken a crayon and made swirlies on the front box to represent the steam exhaust that came out of the engine's pistons. I was punished for defacing the boxes. I lived right next to the railroad tracks and saw huge steam locomotives every day and I wanted the event to be more realistic. I didn't realize that I was misbehaving.

That's not even misbehavior. I hope the teacher tried to get to the bottom of why you did that. You weren't attempting to be naughty or take advantage or whatever. You were making the train look more like a train.

 

[Woodznutz]

That's not even misbehavior. I hope the teacher tried to get to the bottom of why you did that. You weren't attempting to be naughty or take advantage or whatever. You were making the train look more like a train.

I don't think the other kids had ever seen a real train. The biggest problem my teachers had with me was that I couldn't engage in what they were trying to do with us. To me it was silly and uninteresting. I was ready to focus and they wanted us to play silly games that had no meaning to me.

To my 'train' story, I couldn't 'pretend' those boxes were a train as I saw real trains close up every day.

 

[toobfreak]

The abysmal decline in student behavior is a crisis.

A crisis of the Left's own creation. I read about this behavior with mixed humor and horror: when I was in grade school, the biggest discipline horror I remember hearing about was a child suspended for a day for finding a knife on him. I left grade school and went to a private school--- I went there basically because I was outside the bell curve of intelligence the public school system was designed to handle, but I realize that a lot of the kids who went to my private school were there due to some disciplinary problem causing them to be expelled from regular school.

DESPITE THAT: there never were any disciplinary problems at that school! The worst thing I remember was one day one of the students grabbed the fire extinguisher (type A water) and squirted it at the elevator as it went by (it was a glass door elevator that went upstairs to a business school above us). I don't recall if he was expelled for that or not.

But this was at a school presumably full of students who were disciplinary problems!

And in college (2 years at a college, then another 4 years at a university), there were ZERO incidents. Maybe the occasional party or drunken fight).

Then I read about COMMON OCCURRENCES now everyday in public school and I cringe wondering how teachers at grade schools even report to work every day without weapons on them and barbed wire around their desk.

And then I remembered the old adage: "You always get more of what you finance." Kids today are exactly what leftists and progressive ideology has made them--- idiots and thugs.

 

[SweetSue92]

A crisis of the Left's own creation. I read about this behavior with mixed humor and horror: when I was in grade school, the biggest discipline horror I remember hearing about was a child suspended for a day for finding a knife on him. I left grade school and went to a private school--- I went there basically because I was outside the bell curve of intelligence the public school system was designed to handle, but I realize that a lot of the kids who went to my private school were there due to some disciplinary problem causing them to be expelled from regular school.

DESPITE THAT: there never were any disciplinary problems at that school! The worst thing I remember was one day one of the students grabbed the fire extinguisher (type A water) and squirted it at the elevator as it went by (it was a glass door elevator that went upstairs to a business school above us). I don't recall if he was expelled for that or not.

But this was at a school presumably full of students who were disciplinary problems!

And in college (2 years at a college, then another 4 years at a university), there were ZERO incidents. Maybe the occasional party or drunken fight).

Then I read about COMMON OCCURRENCES now everyday in public school and I cringe wondering how teachers at grade schools even report to work every day without weapons on them and barbed wire around their desk.

And then I remembered the old adage: "You always get more of what you finance." Kids today are exactly what leftists and progressive ideology has made them--- idiots and thugs.

I honestly feel like I'm not just retired now but recovering from what was--in the last 10 years--a traumatic experience. And I don't say that lightly, as I do NOT like "everything is trauma" culture. But I was pushed, kicked, bitten, and had things thrown at me. Again, what would be felonious in real life is not only excused in schools now, but blamed on the teachers who have been assaulted!

 

[toobfreak]

I honestly feel like I'm not just retired now but recovering from what was--in the last 10 years--a traumatic experience.

I wholly understand. I skipped 84 days of school in 8th grade (but still passed with an A- average), then only went to public high school for 16 days (while being promoted to the 11th or 12 grade astronomy science class as astronomy wasn't an option in 9th grade. In 9th grade, you took biology (I guess astronomy was deemed too advanced for 9th grade), and I still dropped out circa 1970 and I still feel traumatized 55 years later.

Luckily, after leaving public school and spending a few months at a rather bad private school, I left that too and found a truly great high school (private of course) that changed my life.

But I was pushed, kicked, bitten, and had things thrown at me.

Sounds like a few punks there need their asses kicked hard.

Again, what would be felonious in real life is not only excused in schools now, but blamed on the teachers who have been assaulted!

That is rubbish. In my day, these kids would be expelled, then go home and really get an ass-whopping by the old man. Which is what is missing: Progs have taken away parent's ability to beat their kids, then teachers are not allowed either. As soon as these kids find out they are hands off and no one can touch them, they just explode into a riot of misbehavior just to see how much they can get away with!

 

[SweetSue92]

I wholly understand. I skipped 84 days of school in 8th grade (but still passed with an A- average), then only went to public high school for 16 days (while being promoted to the 11th or 12 grade astronomy science class as astronomy wasn't an option in 9th grade. In 9th grade, you took biology (I guess astronomy was deemed too advanced for 9th grade), and I still dropped out circa 1970 and I still feel traumatized 55 years later.

Luckily, after leaving public school and spending a few months at a rather bad private school, I left that too and found a truly great high school (private of course) that changed my life.


Sounds like a few punks there need their asses kicked hard.


That is rubbish. In my day, these kids would be expelled, then go home and really get an ass-whopping by the old man. Which is what is missing: Progs have taken away parent's ability to beat their kids, then teachers are not allowed either. As soon as these kids find out they are hands off and no one can touch them, they just explode into a riot of misbehavior just to see how much they can get away with!

Well....all I can say is that you were put in a box many times, and I'm not a fan of boxes. I think being an arts teacher fostered my dislike of boxes. I loved divergent thinkers, and am (and always have been) a curious person...which I think is the foundation of learning/teaching. Sadly, too many teachers are not truly curious people.

To your last point: I did not want to apply corporal punishment to any child (esp if they were not mine). HOWEVER, we are now so far from this that any consequence/punishment belongs to the TEACHER and not the child. Teachers are routinely asked if they "tried to build a relationship" with a child entirely out of control. Which is ridiculous when applied to real life. If someone is a jerk to you, do you attempt to "build a relationship"? Or do you avoid?

Sigh

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There was s time when teachers had authority in the classroom

The ACLU led the campaign to take that authority away

Children without discipline will always run wild

Why do you think that? Got any specifics?

 

[Winco]

ESC.

.

When Washington State gave themselves the right to own the children, by concealing the kids' medical records from their own parents, that was it.

The place is evil.

.

 

[toobfreak]

Well....all I can say is that you were put in a box many times, and I'm not a fan of boxes. I think being an arts teacher fostered my dislike of boxes.

I don't know about boxes but I remember in 9th grade the public school dividing us up into their new system of bright, average and slow students. I was in the "bright" class. Soon as the teacher walked out of the room, it was bedlam and mayhem with kids yelling and throwing stuff, and I remember thinking that if this was the bright class, I'd hate to see the slow class. I felt sorry for the teacher who had to put up with it all.

I loved divergent thinkers, and am (and always have been) a curious person...which I think is the foundation of learning/teaching. Sadly, too many teachers are not truly curious people.

To be a good teacher, you have to be curious and to love learning. If you don't love learning, how can you love teaching? And how can you learn without being curious? This brings us to the difference between a person who got into a career because they love the work and someone who got into it merely because it paid the bills.

To your last point: I did not want to apply corporal punishment to any child (esp if they were not mine). HOWEVER, we are now so far from this that any consequence/punishment belongs to the TEACHER and not the child. Teachers are routinely asked if they "tried to build a relationship" with a child entirely out of control. Which is ridiculous when applied to real life. If someone is a jerk to you, do you attempt to "build a relationship"? Or do you avoid?

You probably don't know this, I've mentioned it here 1-2 times I think, but I authored a textbook on applied psychology long ago. What you describe above is utter nonsense. All it is, is an attempt to deflect responsibility upon the teacher. My guess is that these school districts are being mindful of not expelling students in order to meet some state funding quota or something. Discipline begins with focusing one's efforts on the miscreant while protecting your teachers. Send these kids home, let them get discipline at home. Expel them. These kid's behavior is not about to change so long as you are not even holding them accountable as the ones needing change!

 

[Mac-7]

Why do you think that? Got any specifics?

It goes not many years

No specifics now

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

It goes not many years

No specifics now

Is that supposed to be English? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Things pulled from your ass usually turn out that way.

 

[Mac-7]

Is that supposed to be English? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Ok, your snarky alter ego is in control

Have a nice day

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Ok, your snarky alter ego is on control

Have a nice day

You compose sentences like someone on drugs.

 

[Unkotare]

I honestly feel like I'm not just retired now but recovering from what was--in the last 10 years--a traumatic experience. And I don't say that lightly, as I do NOT like "everything is trauma" culture. But I was pushed, kicked, bitten, and had things thrown at me. Again, what would be felonious in real life is not only excused in schools now, but blamed on the teachers who have been assaulted!

Good thing you finally quit, *****.

 

[sparky]

I honestly feel like I'm not just retired now but recovering from what was--in the last 10 years--a traumatic experience. And I don't say that lightly, as I do NOT like "everything is trauma" culture. But I was pushed, kicked, bitten, and had things thrown at me. Again, what would be felonious in real life is not only excused in schools now, but blamed on the teachers who have been assaulted!

I went through the same thing after decades of EMS.....man we could trade notes Sue

It takes time, you're still a tad raw.......

It's far from a perfect system out there, but do yourself a favor and grant yourself that you did the best you could within it

~S~

 

[Jarlaxle]

That's not even misbehavior. I hope the teacher tried to get to the bottom of why you did that. You weren't attempting to be naughty or take advantage or whatever. You were making the train look more like a train.

It was, to the teacher, disobedience. She probably thought he was being "smart," and punished him to show her power. I'm surprised she didn't smack him because she could.

Good thing you finally quit, *****.

You should not be allowed within a mile of children.

 

[SweetSue92]

I don't know about boxes but I remember in 9th grade the public school dividing us up into their new system of bright, average and slow students. I was in the "bright" class. Soon as the teacher walked out of the room, it was bedlam and mayhem with kids yelling and throwing stuff, and I remember thinking that if this was the bright class, I'd hate to see the slow class. I felt sorry for the teacher who had to put up with it all.


To be a good teacher, you have to be curious and to love learning. If you don't love learning, how can you love teaching? And how can you learn without being curious? This brings us to the difference between a person who got into a career because they love the work and someone who got into it merely because it paid the bills.


You probably don't know this, I've mentioned it here 1-2 times I think, but I authored a textbook on applied psychology long ago. What you describe above is utter nonsense. All it is, is an attempt to deflect responsibility upon the teacher. My guess is that these school districts are being mindful of not expelling students in order to meet some state funding quota or something. Discipline begins with focusing one's efforts on the miscreant while protecting your teachers. Send these kids home, let them get discipline at home. Expel them. These kid's behavior is not about to change so long as you are not even holding them accountable as the ones needing change!

I did not know you wrote a book! That's amazing. And yeah, the gaslighting in schools, along with the shoddy behavior, is what drove me to what was essentially an early retirement. It was mentally, emotionally, even physically exhausting attempting to reconcile what we were told with any kind of real world situation. It made no sense, but was spewed at us constantly: gems like "all behavior is communication" (and therefore, if a child is misbehaving, you're just not picking up on his 'communication').

And that's too bad because I truly did love teaching and was a competent teacher.