Another discussion about abortion

[Eman623]

Your example is of course non responsive and illogical. If that’s the best you’ve got, you shouldn’t bother.

If it seems illogical it is because your absolutely-zero-risk argument is also illogical. To argue for any policy based on nothing more that "why risk it" is to argue for any policy no matter how ludicrous it seems.

That’s not the same “sense” at all, since it contains not a scintilla of sense. There is no such thing as a unicorn. But a person does exist and the question is about when one becomes a “person.” Do try to focus.

Metaphysics is not your strong suit. The point is if there is a problem that cannot be perceived, then whether it exists or not is immaterial.

Words have shades of meaning. So what? If we value life so highly (as I believe we should), then we should take pains to not treat it cavalierly.

Life is not the question here. Personhood is. Do try to focus.

It was just an illustration as to why we aren’t a democracy. And some things aren’t susceptible to such arbitrary decision making mechanisms as just putting it to a vote. The majority is denied that ability where and when the Constitution has placed roadblocks.

So, just as a majority can’t decide to off the gingers, so too a majority doesn’t get to permit any class of persons to the randomness of death for mere convenience.

The Constitution permits states to limit abortion. I don't think it permits gruesome killing of people based on hair color.

 

[Eman623]

Definition of CHILD

a young person especially between infancy and puberty; a person not yet of the age of majority; a childlike or childish person… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

View attachment 1147121

So an unborn person is a person. Thanks for clearing that up. How about unborn non-persons?

 

[Chuz Life]

So an unborn person is a person. Thanks for clearing that up. How about unborn non-persons?

What about them?

 

[Eman623]

What about them?

By definition they are not persons.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Is a single hair, or some toenail clippings a living human being?

A hair or toenail clippings is not a stage of development. They do not grow.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

So an unborn person is a person. Thanks for clearing that up. How about unborn non-persons?

Non persons, like Jews or blacks?

 

[Chuz Life]

By definition they are not persons.

They "who?"

Are they human beings?

No idea who the "they" is that you are talking about.

 

[toobfreak]

I Just ******* want them to admit they are killing children and denying basic human rights and personhood to the smallest, youngest, most defenseless and vulnerable human beings of all.

Pretty funny--- Dragonlady was just yelling at me in the CDZ because "I wanted to /force/ women to conform to my idea of morality (the Nazi implications was pretty obvious) just because I thought that in a sane, ordered society, mothers should be encouraged to treasure life even if it meant taking more responsibility in their own lives first!

The real problem is that Republicans always just suck at messaging; even Trump sucks to a degree. The should be turning the whole issue on abortion back around against the Left, you see, the whole matter of abortion isn't about "a woman's rights" as they allow the Left to plead year after year! The issue is one of HUMAN SLAVERY, because what they are really saying is that human life has no rights, human life is property, and they allowed themselves to get pregnant knowing that they didn't want any child.

In effect, the child is a slave, no rights, no say, no opinion, no self-determination, to be thrown away on a whim just because they do not want to deal with actually getting pregnant from having sex because having a child would put a crimp in their otherwise gloriously wonderful lives.

 

[BackAgain]

So an unborn person is a person. Thanks for clearing that up. How about unborn non-persons?

You know your attempt at arguing is ridiculous when you post such meaningless crap.

 

[Eman623]

Non persons, like Jews or blacks?

Non persons like tiny little blastula. Of any race or ethnicity.

 

[Eman623]

You know your attempt at arguing is ridiculous when you post such meaningless crap.

Well that added nothing. Bored now.

 

[BackAgain]

Well that added nothing. Bored now.

You’ve added precious little beyond sharing the fact that you have opinions which you cannot support.

You were already quite boring.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The only intelligent position on abortion is to recognize the humanity of the earliest human development and you're okay with ending that life. It's better than trying to hide guilt behind some ridiculous nonsense like it's not alive, it's not human.

What is so horrible admitting satisfaction with ending this life?

 

[Eman623]

You’ve added precious little beyond sharing the fact that you have opinions which you cannot support.

You were already quite boring.

And yet you kept posting replies. OTOH, when you grow boring, I just walk away.

Have a great day. Hope you find something interesting, not that it seems to matter to you.

 

[BackAgain]

And yet you kept posting replies. OTOH, when you grow boring, I just walk away.

Have a great day. Hope you find something interesting, not that it seems to matter to you.

I reply as and when I see fit. You suggested that you had grown bored yet you are still here. Quite hypocritical of you.

I understand that you recognize the utter failure of your argument to date. I suppose that’s a good reason for you to skulk off.

It hasn’t stopped you from being quite boring though. Just to be clear, it’s perfectly ok if you choose to move on to other topics.

Maybe you can find a thread where you’re not so clearly in over your head. Good luck.

 

[Chuz Life]

I have a bit of trouble seeing this blastula as an "individual" or "person".

That's only an artist's depiction of a blastocyst, but for what it's worth, I used to feel the same way. I had trouble seeing it too.

I finally resolved it for myself when I made the realization that (especially in science) things like organisms are identified (binary classification) by the traits and characteristics they have, and only further defined by the attributes and characteristics they may only temporarily lack.

 

[BULLDOG]

Pretty funny--- Dragonlady was just yelling at me in the CDZ because "I wanted to /force/ women to conform to my idea of morality (the Nazi implications was pretty obvious) just because I thought that in a sane, ordered society, mothers should be encouraged to treasure life even if it meant taking more responsibility in their own lives first!

The real problem is that Republicans always just suck at messaging; even Trump sucks to a degree. The should be turning the whole issue on abortion back around against the Left, you see, the whole matter of abortion isn't about "a woman's rights" as they allow the Left to plead year after year! The issue is one of HUMAN SLAVERY, because what they are really saying is that human life has no rights, human life is property, and they allowed themselves to get pregnant knowing that they didn't want any child.

In effect, the child is a slave, no rights, no say, no opinion, no self-determination, to be thrown away on a whim just because they do not want to deal with actually getting pregnant from having sex because having a child would put a crimp in their otherwise gloriously wonderful lives.

You better run put your head in the freezer. Your brain is overheating again. How high were you when you first came up with that silly line of reasoning?

 

[Luckyone]

1. If we look up the definition of “person” we see things like “a human being regarded as being an individual.” And since we aren’t talking about corpses, I say we must add “living” to “human being.”

2. We know when a male’s spermatazum succeeds in entering a female’s ovum, that new being has its own unique identity. And we also know what kind of being it is: a human being. Huh. A unique human being

3. It is accepted by a large percentage of doctors that “life” begins at the moment of conception.

Therefore, if we agree to use actual definitions, we would be forced to agree that, absent lawful duty (like an “executioner”), absent being engaged in a war and absent self-defense for life threatening crimes, the taking of a human life is a homicide.

I regularly see “liberals” argue for abortion “rights” by arguing that the blastula or zygote is merely a “cluster of cells” but not “life” yet because — stage of development. Yet, even some strident abortion rights advocates concede that life begins at conception. They argue against any abortion laws which “limit access to abortion” on when. When does a “life” become an”person?”

Well, given those first three numbered paragraphs, it should be considered a “person” also at conception.

 

[Chuz Life]

**** Carlin.

And **** any retard who thinks he has a point or think Carlin was an authority on anything.

 

[Luckyone]

**** Carlin.

And **** any retard who thinks he has a point or think Carlin is an authority on anything.

Of course, if you are a Trump supporter, you would say that.

Here is the reality of comedians:

Why Comedians Are Indispensable​

Mar 11, 2024

“The comedy writer is like the conscience of the king. He’s got to tell him the truth. And that’s my job: to make terrible things entertaining.” — Mel Brooks​

Comedians Speaking Truth to Power: Lenny Bruce ...​