Another Debate Audience Recites Pledge when Moderator says "no!"

[uscitizen]

"We surely cannot deny to any nation that right whereon our own government is founded, that every one may govern itself according to whatever form it pleases and change these forms at its own will... The will of the nation is the only thing essential to be regarded." --Thomas Jefferson to Gouverneur Morris, 1792. ME 9:36

And HOW is that WILL OF THE NATION to be represented????????????

By SAYING A PLEDGE AT A DEBATE WHICH IS ABOUT VOTING TYRANNY OUT OF OFFICE???????????

I again REST MY CASE You so lose!

I quit so I win? How palinesque and juvenile.

 

[LiberalNut]

And HOW is that WILL OF THE NATION to be represented?

Well, by elections of course. As another poster said, this debate was supposed to inform the public and thus make them good voters. But the right wing can't have the electorate be informed. Oh no. Much better to have some bots do a ritual and thus attempt to have the election based on foolish faux-patriotism instead of things that take actual thought.

BTW, if you think the "will of the people" is to institute the radical agenda of the tea party, you're sadly mistaken. You have some uninformed folks that are pissed at the way the economy is right now taking it out on the party in power. That's it. I really, really hope that if the Republican majority comes to pass on Tuesday that they actually try to institute the Tea Party agenda.

Nothing could be better for liberalism in the long run.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Another screed about us all being knucking dragging rednecks.

And now the drone comes back with the automatic, spoon fed response. Never mind that I said nothing about knuckles or red necks. The right winger is simply repeating the trained lines without any independent thought, kinda like the recitation of the pledge.

Do you see the contempt and frothing vitriol in this? The rage?

Ummm, no, I don't. I see me posting reality and you seeing nothing but the fantasy world that you have been trained to see. I'm saddened by the extent to which ideology, ritualism and bigotry have been allowed to shut down your brain.

They can't STAND

Tell me, who are "they"? Are "they" Americans who deserve liberty and justice, as the pledge says? Or are they eeeeevil liberals who deserve nothing but your scorn?

Remember these liberal snobs

And now we have the answer and it was unremarkably the latter. You see, this is just another trained response, like Pavlov's dog. Liberal speaks truth with elloquence, conservabot calls them pointy headed, arrogant etc. I gotta tell ya, it's hard to be offended by what is so obviously a conditioned response.

Do you roll over an play dead too?

Nice try, but there is a reason you cut out your own comments and are only trying to respond to certain things I said. Shall we review?

The amount to which right wingers go for this faux-patriotism schtick is simply astonishing. They are for the big government forcing children to recite words they don't understand no less. If right wingers were computers, the internal inconsistencies would shut them down. Blue screen of death baby.

Truth is, right wingerism isn't about patriotism. It is in essense a religious movement. That's why they are all into these rituals and use them to define the in group from the out group. It's obvious to anyone with the capacity for independent thought but we all know the right wing doesn't encourage that.

It's "political" to show pride in your country!

If it were truly about pride in country, there wouldn't be any problem. That isn't what it's about though. It's about the ritual.

I do the ritual, I'm part of the "in" group. You don't do the ritual, you're part of the "out" group.

That's it. That's what it's about. For the controlers of the marrionette strings, it's about getting you to vote against your own best interests based on this faux-patriotsm divide and conquer idiocy.

It's a pledge to the country.

No, it's a pledge to a flag and the Republic for which it stands. For you though, it's a pledge to an ideology fed to you by those who want you to vote against your own interests. How about that last line of the pledge...

"with liberty and justice for all"

Do you REALLY believe in that? Really? Liberty and justice for hispanic, liberal, homosexulas who get abortions?

Now deny what I've said.

In all your words you show contempt for those who would say the pledge.

You lecture us about "voting against your self interests" which is liberal for "we know what's best for you!"

It's pretty obvious you have utter contempt for those who show patriotism for the country, and think they don't know "what's best for them."

You can protest too much to the contary, but your OWN WORDS stand in stark contrast.

 

[teapartysamurai]

To pledge to an indivisible nation flies in the face of everything this FF believed about the right and duty to destroy and replace bad systems.

So you hate the country! Thank you for admitting it.

That's because to pledge allegience to this country means that they have to be productive contributors to our society rather than be moochers that don't want accountability, responsibility to anyone for what they're given. And that means their own Liberty.

Yeah and get this "voting against our best self interests" mantra that is coming out of liberals lately?

It's pretty obvious that means "vote for us, we know what's BEST for you!"

They can take that fascist nanny-ism and shove it. I'll say the pledge anytime I want and I'll decide what is best for me. And you can sure bet I'll VOTE that way as well!

 

[teapartysamurai]

See? This is your liberal!

You're calling yourself a liberal now?

Let me google that for you

Oh they claim they love the country, but let them go and they will tell you exactly what they think of the country. They HATE it!

do cite

No stupe, you're the liberal.

And you know what I can cite? Your own words!!!!

This is the second liberal who has deleted his own words so he doesn't have to defend them anymore!

Pretty funny!

 

[teapartysamurai]

Makes perfect sense. This crowd knows how to unify to recite a civil prayer but they don't have the first ******* clue on how to unite to stop America from killing its own Citizens and countless other people.

We are murderers now too!

This is your liberal!

Remember this and vote!

 

[LiberalNut]

In all your words you show contempt for those who would say the pledge.

I have contempt for people who use the pledge the way you are. It's not your fault though really. You don't think anymore. It's the fault of those who have brainwashed you.

You lecture us about "voting against your self interests" which is liberal for "we know what's best for you!"

It's simply a fact that by voting for conservatives, you are voting against your own interests in favor of a class of people who you are not a part and will never be a part. You can't point to one coherent way that liberal policies have hurt you in the real world. I however can point to innumerable ways that liberal policies have helped you. But, again, you aren't trained to actually consider the real world.

It's pretty obvious you have utter contempt for those who show patriotism for the country

I have respect for REAL patriotism but contempt for this sort of faux-patriotism. Real patriotism is born of a knowledge of the history of the world and a recognition of how our Constitution is such a radical departure from that history. Without the requisite knowledge and understanding, the pledge is a mindless act at best and a mild form of brainwashing at worst. Reciting the pledge doesn't make you a patriot. What you do makes you a patriot or, in your case, not.

When did you serve this nation? I'm a VFW. How about you?

 

[teapartysamurai]

Because to liberals the flag represents the principles of this country which run COUNTER TO LIBERALISM!!!!!!!!!

The truly sad thig is that you actually believe this. In reality, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States and the rest pretty much embody the radical liberalism of the 18th century. A conservative back then was a monarchist. In America, a conservative was a Tory, a loyalist to the throne of George III. They actually took up arms at times against the Republic for which the flag stands! Real, radically liberal, patriots tended to tar and feather these conservatives.

But, of course, actual history means nothing to you. The narrative fed to you by the right wing noise machine is what matters, regardless of how counter-factual and ahistorical it is. Thus, absolutely RADICAL liberals in the form of our founding fathers are somehow transformed into conservabots in your spoon fed fantasy.

It really is pathetic ya know.

Yeah like a liberal telling people back in that time that they are voting "against their own best self interests" would have been embraced instead of tarred and feathered????

Like saying this country doesn't have justice for all because homosexuals can't be abortions?????? (your own words)

Yeah they would have embraced that one big time, right!

You so lose by your own radial idiocy!

 

[teapartysamurai]

Liberals wrote COTUS

And Jesus was a liberal.

Jefferson was a liberal blah blah blah!

Yeah that's why you guys so fear the pledge! All those guys were liberals!

You run with that!

 

[teapartysamurai]

Its a debate with rules. The audience is there to observe not participate in partisan patriotism. If the candidate felt so strongly about saying the pledge before the debate, he should have insisted on it before hand.

To hijack the debate to conduct a "I am more patriotic than my opponent" display is an abuse of The Pledge of Alegience for political gain.

Yes, yes of course! Those plebes in the audience better keep quiet and not do anything untoward like saying the pledge!

What an insurrection! Why the next thing you know, they will think they can vote on Tuesday for conservatives!

The plebes in the audience were planted there and told to ignore the rules of the debate and to ignore the moderator. Political grandstanding to make it appear "I am more patriotic than my opponent"

Pure abuse of the intent of the Pledge...but par for the course

Bwahahahaaa! They were plants! You heard it here first!

Those saying the pledge were plants!

Can't be people were rising up against the tyranny of the modertor. Nooooooooooo, they were political plants!

 

[SFC Ollie]

It's "political" to show pride in your country!

If it were truly about pride in country, there wouldn't be any problem. That isn't what it's about though. It's about the ritual.

I do the ritual, I'm part of the "in" group. You don't do the ritual, you're part of the "out" group.

That's it. That's what it's about. For the controlers of the marrionette strings, it's about getting you to vote against your own best interests based on this faux-patriotsm divide and conquer idiocy.

Great post. Pretty much my thoughts on it.

I have gone 40 years without saying the pledge.

I am also a decorated and wounded (2X) combat vet.
Never been in jail (I guess stockade time in the military does not count? ).
Nor even been charged with a crime. Not even a moving violation in my vehicles.
Always vote, pay taxes and be nice to my neighbors (if they deserve it).

Tell me now how not saying the pledge makes me less of an American.
Or a bad person.

Hypothetical question for you.
You run into a neighbor at the grocery store, he happens to belong to a veterans organization, and he invites you to a free veterans day dinner.

You decide to attend and they start the evening with Posting the Colors and reciting the Pledge. Do you recite it with them or refuse?

 

[teapartysamurai]

Are you allowed to vote?

Yeah, the elections were all stolen until Obama was elected right?

 

[teapartysamurai]

"We surely cannot deny to any nation that right whereon our own government is founded, that every one may govern itself according to whatever form it pleases and change these forms at its own will... The will of the nation is the only thing essential to be regarded." --Thomas Jefferson to Gouverneur Morris, 1792. ME 9:36

And HOW is that WILL OF THE NATION to be represented????????????

By SAYING A PLEDGE AT A DEBATE WHICH IS ABOUT VOTING TYRANNY OUT OF OFFICE???????????

I again REST MY CASE You so lose!

Looks like the will of that crowd that wanted the pledge won out too!

And that's why liberals are frothing in this thread. It really has them bothered!

I mean liberals can keep denying they hate this country but their own protesting too much over the pledge makes it pretty obvious how they feel about the country.

 

[LiberalNut]

this country doesn't have justice for all because homosexuals can't be abortions??????

Not my words. I have a much better command of the language than that. Maybe you should go reread my words and try to actually comprehend them. I know it's hard cause the right wing noise machine might not have given you a patented response but really, so much the better. Maybe you could try to think on your own again. You used to be able to do it ya know.

And Jesus was a liberal.

Clearly. He spent his time opposing the estabished power structure didn't he? he preached tolerance and acceptance, didn't he? He threw out the money changers, didn't he? They, the powers that be, killed him for all of this, didn't they?

 

[jillian]

LWV is a Progressive Front Group. I mean its the year 2010 why do we even need a LVW anymore?

How much has George Soros contributed to the LVW?

yes, supporting the right to vote and getting information to voters is a progressive idead.


okey dokey.

 

[teapartysamurai]

Yes.. the Founding Fathers hated America...

Especially that Jefferson

When you have a quote of Jefferson directly saying something against the Pledge of Allegiance let me know.

did Jefferson ever recite the pledge of alliegance?

The Pledge wasn't in existence at the time, but then neither was Obamacare but you liberals keep telling us THAT isn't unpatriotic. You changing your tune now?

 

[teapartysamurai]

"We surely cannot deny to any nation that right whereon our own government is founded, that every one may govern itself according to whatever form it pleases and change these forms at its own will... The will of the nation is the only thing essential to be regarded." --Thomas Jefferson to Gouverneur Morris, 1792. ME 9:36

And HOW is that WILL OF THE NATION to be represented????????????

By SAYING A PLEDGE AT A DEBATE WHICH IS ABOUT VOTING TYRANNY OUT OF OFFICE???????????

I again REST MY CASE You so lose!

How does interrupting a debate intended to ensure informed elections with a socialist pledge to a theocratic State represent the will of the nation?

can someone check this idiot's IP against PI's?

It's "interrupting a debate" to say the pledge?

You liberals' protest against this pledge gets weaker by the minute!

 

[LiberalNut]

Do you recite it with them or refuse?

I would recite the pledge with them, they being real patriots in my estimation.

Now, here's a counter question...

Can you imagine a group of soldiers, in uniform, ignoring the rules of the debate they were attending and reciting the pledge to show everyone just how patriotic they were?

 

[teapartysamurai]

"We surely cannot deny to any nation that right whereon our own government is founded, that every one may govern itself according to whatever form it pleases and change these forms at its own will... The will of the nation is the only thing essential to be regarded." --Thomas Jefferson to Gouverneur Morris, 1792. ME 9:36

And HOW is that WILL OF THE NATION to be represented????????????

By SAYING A PLEDGE AT A DEBATE WHICH IS ABOUT VOTING TYRANNY OUT OF OFFICE???????????

I again REST MY CASE You so lose!

I quit so I win? How palinesque and juvenile.

No, whether you quit or not, I still win. The only thing juvenile here is your pathetic arguments.

 

[teapartysamurai]

And HOW is that WILL OF THE NATION to be represented?

Well, by elections of course. As another poster said, this debate was supposed to inform the public and thus make them good voters. But the right wing can't have the electorate be informed. Oh no. Much better to have some bots do a ritual and thus attempt to have the election based on foolish faux-patriotism instead of things that take actual thought.

BTW, if you think the "will of the people" is to institute the radical agenda of the tea party, you're sadly mistaken. You have some uninformed folks that are pissed at the way the economy is right now taking it out on the party in power. That's it. I really, really hope that if the Republican majority comes to pass on Tuesday that they actually try to institute the Tea Party agenda.

Nothing could be better for liberalism in the long run.

Yeah because having liberals in charge as we have right now, sure isn't helping liberalism.

Seems to be hurting it big time!