Anarchists and libertarians - Please click here

[bripat9643]

So if your house is burning or you're being assaulted, you should give a credit card number when calling the fire department or police?

You'd probably have a subscription to a fire service, whether from contract services, community covenants, or through your freely purchased insurance policy.

So, those that could not afford the subscription service would just lose their houses to the fire?

Banks would require fire protection service as a condition of your mortgage, just as they require home insurance now. Do you assume banks are stupid?

 

[bripat9643]

I did not mention agression, I said violent coercion.

There is no such thing as a non-aggression principle. That is about as real as santa clause.

Well, that might be the stupidest post you've made in this thread...And brother, there's a shit ton to choose from.

GG specializes in playing stupid. He believes that's a winning debate tactic.

 

[bripat9643]

So if your house is burning or you're being assaulted, you should give a credit card number when calling the fire department or police?

You'd probably have a subscription to a fire service, whether from contract services, community covenants, or through your freely purchased insurance policy.

Call to 911: My house is on fire ! My son is trapped on the third floor!
What agency do you contract with?
Shit! I don't know! Oh Fire services Inc.
I'll try them. Getting their answering service. Oh OK got them
Fire Service inc. That credit card is expired . Do you have an update
May son is trapped !!
I understand but we must arrange payment first
OK, oK! Here is my new number
Sorry but you are only subscribed to the silver plan that provides protection and rescue up to the second floor. Would you like to upgrade now?
My son is dead!

YOU PEOPEL ARE MORONS AND MAKE ME SICK!

They are no morons, they are playing make believe. A society of anarchists is a oxymoron. You will notice how they had to water down the meaning of the word anarchy to just refer to governments and not all authority as was its original meaning. The funny thing is they are not actually changing anything, they are just transferring who has authority and calling it something different.

Sort of like..."no dear, I am not going to Kentucky Fried Chicken, I am going to KFC"

You seem to be admitting that a society can exist without government. Now you're just whining about the terms we use to describe that arrangement.

 

[bripat9643]

So if your house is burning or you're being assaulted, you should give a credit card number when calling the fire department or police?

You'd probably have a subscription to a fire service, whether from contract services, community covenants, or through your freely purchased insurance policy.

Call to 911: My house is on fire ! My son is trapped on the third floor!
What agency do you contract with?
Shit! I don't know! Oh Fire services Inc.
I'll try them. Getting their answering service. Oh OK got them
Fire Service inc. That credit card is expired . Do you have an update
May son is trapped !!
I understand but we must arrange payment first
OK, oK! Here is my new number
Sorry but you are only subscribed to the silver plan that provides protection and rescue up to the second floor. Would you like to upgrade now?
My son is dead!

YOU PEOPEL ARE MORONS AND MAKE ME SICK!

BTW, the overwhelming majority of fire departments in America are VOLUNTARY.

There are also private for-profit fire departments.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So if your house is burning or you're being assaulted, you should give a credit card number when calling the fire department or police?

You'd probably have a subscription to a fire service, whether from contract services, community covenants, or through your freely purchased insurance policy.

Call to 911: My house is on fire ! My son is trapped on the third floor!
What agency do you contract with?
Shit! I don't know! Oh Fire services Inc.
I'll try them. Getting their answering service. Oh OK got them
Fire Service inc. That credit card is expired . Do you have an update
May son is trapped !!
I understand but we must arrange payment first
OK, oK! Here is my new number
Sorry but you are only subscribed to the silver plan that provides protection and rescue up to the second floor. Would you like to upgrade now?
My son is dead!

YOU PEOPEL ARE MORONS AND MAKE ME SICK!

They are no morons, they are playing make believe. A society of anarchists is a oxymoron. You will notice how they had to water down the meaning of the word anarchy to just refer to governments and not all authority as was its original meaning. The funny thing is they are not actually changing anything, they are just transferring who has authority and calling it something different.

Sort of like..."no dear, I am not going to Kentucky Fried Chicken, I am going to KFC"

You seem to be admitting that a society can exist without government. Now you're just whining about the terms we use to describe that arrangement.

Yes, society can exist without government if you replace government with something exactly like government but just give it a new name to make you feel better.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I don't paying for the roads that ride on because if I don't pay they ain't gonna get built. I don't mind paying for police protection and don't mind paying the soldiers that protect my country providing that is what they are really doing.

I am not a greedy welfare queen that wants somebody else to pay for them.

I prefer user fees to general taxation.

I don't mind paying for certain things either, I just believe it's wrong to demand I do so by threat of violence. So, would you be willing to take the position that you're anti-taxation? Saying you don't prefer it is a point of contention because I'm citing it as a moral issue. To me, that's like saying, "I don't prefer that people be mugged" as opposed to saying, "I'm anti-mugging". Sort of a fence position, and I want to be clear about what you think.

Are you suggesting that taxation for the few necessary government functions should be optional?

For the kind of minimal government services I am talking about that would be very close to being impossible. How do we pay for a military on an optional basis? Most people would take the protection but not belly up the payment. The same with courts and police.

I prefer most things be based upon a user fee but there are a few (very few) things that should be collective.

We could have a very Libertarian or even an anarchy society that could work but not with the population that we have.

I am for very small government and a Libertarian and I hate government but I am not an anarchist. Maybe if the US had a population of 5 million it would be feasible but not with 330 million.

Thank you for explaining yourself so thoroughly.

Considering our upbringing, it feels as though by saying “there should be no coercive taxation” that we are making a pro-active decision. But in reality, no coercive taxation is the natural state of things, and in every moment that we support something else, we are pro-actively making that choice.

In other words, if things were in their natural, free state, when would be a good time to say “Hey, you know what we should do to get funding for what we deem important? We should threaten everyone with violence. Then we’ll get all the funding we need, and we don’t have to bother convincing people that what we want is important!”

You see how a paradigm shift reveals the true nature of our actions. Immorality always has short-sighted benefits that circumvent the hard work of doing things the right way. But there are no shortcuts, and we pay, one way or another.

There’s no reason why things have to be organized across 325 million people. If the Federal Government was dissolved, we may be connected by a shared culture and commercial market, but we could generally have our voluntary society organized more locally. In any case, moral people really don’t have the option to rob people, regardless of the problems that creates. I trust that mankind can find new solutions to new challenges, just as it always has.

I understand your points and am in sympathy with your basic concept.

I can't believe I defending government. I hate government. I wish the Federal government was 1/20th the size that it is now. I wish human nature was such that we didn't need a military and police and courts and things like that. I wish the government would get out of my life. Government robs us of liberty and is a mechanisms for state sponsored thievery.

Maybe if there were only a few of us we could live like you suggest. However, in a population of over 300 million in the US and seven billion in the world then we do need some collective services.

I feel your pain. Quite literally, as I read your words. How I wish that people would snap out of their stupor and understand that their immorality is preventing a paradise on this planet. There’s enough for everyone, and we can cooperate and be happier, and shouldn’t even need to exercise force for self-defense because no one would ever feel so desperate that they would desire harm for another.

Such as things are, some are not ready. However, I will not be among them. I will not allow speculative fears to guide my behavior. I will not point to their immorality to justify my own, such that others may point to mine and feel justified themselves.

Everything in you is screaming “this is wrong”. You know it is wrong. You only think that we need it.

We cannot cite human nature because we don’t know human nature. It’s never been free enough in recorded history to show its true quality. Technology has liberated us from many hardships of our environment, and widespread sharing of information has made the height of man’s knowledge available at our fingertips.

Now, just one thing remains - to learn the self-responsibility of living morally without bonds upon our wrists. To be both moral and free, through the knowledge that this is not only within man’s potential, but is our destiny.

But we must leave the nest to fly. We don’t get any guarantees before we head out. We need faith that we can do it on our own, and seeing what man has accomplished, even while in bondage, I am confident that he will soar to meet any challenge once free.

Will you keep him bound and deny him that opportunity? If people like you - who understand so well - will keep him bound, who’s left that we can we turn to, to set him free?

We do know human nature, we see human nature every day. Being "free" does not change human nature. 20 years in the Marine Corps in countries all over the world I have seen human nature in its most raw form, and it is nothing like you dream of it being.

You need to get out among the people more.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So if your house is burning or you're being assaulted, you should give a credit card number when calling the fire department or police?

You'd probably have a subscription to a fire service, whether from contract services, community covenants, or through your freely purchased insurance policy.

Call to 911: My house is on fire ! My son is trapped on the third floor!
What agency do you contract with?
Shit! I don't know! Oh Fire services Inc.
I'll try them. Getting their answering service. Oh OK got them
Fire Service inc. That credit card is expired . Do you have an update
May son is trapped !!
I understand but we must arrange payment first
OK, oK! Here is my new number
Sorry but you are only subscribed to the silver plan that provides protection and rescue up to the second floor. Would you like to upgrade now?
My son is dead!

YOU PEOPEL ARE MORONS AND MAKE ME SICK!

Is that how hospitals work?

No, because the government forces them not to. Something I am personally against, but it is the case.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I’m not talking about the rules of the board. I’m talking about MY assertion of what your action implies. I’m stating that you imply your consent to the aforementioned terms by posting here. So do you accept this or not? If not, why not?

You are making no sense. How can I imply my consent to rules that do not exist?

Why don’t they exist? I just stated them plainly.

But they are make believe, they are not part of the rules of this board.

I have rules in my house, but government’s rules still apply - you cannot smoke crack here, even if I say it’s OK. The board has their rules, but I have mine too. Just because these rules apply in the same space is a matter of no concern at all.

I have said what, according to me, constitutes your consent to my action. Not the board’s action, MY action. This is what I will do if you post here, and if you post here, that is what you consent to.

Do you accept these terms as valid? If not, why not?

You do not have the power or the authority to enforce such rules so I don't really care about your fantasies. But if you did have the power to do so, then I would not post on this board. Seems simple enough.

 

[Bush92]

Im all about freedom and individual liberty but i dont consider myself either of those

Exactly.

 

[Bush92]

The right of the political spectrum is about liberty...the left is about oppression.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The right of the political spectrum is about liberty...the left is about oppression.

This from the guy that fights to deny people the liberty to use marijuana if they choose to. You my friend are a fraud, you are all about control and nothing else

 

[Bush92]

The right of the political spectrum is about liberty...the left is about oppression.

This from the guy that fights to deny people the liberty to use marijuana if they choose to. You my friend are a fraud, you are all about control and nothing else

Oh, I see. Pot is that big a deal to you. Hey, shoot some heroin too...I don’t give a fuck. I just want Mexican cartels destroyed and not glorified by lazy fucking stoners.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The right of the political spectrum is about liberty...the left is about oppression.

This from the guy that fights to deny people the liberty to use marijuana if they choose to. You my friend are a fraud, you are all about control and nothing else

Oh, I see. Pot is that big a deal to you. Hey, shoot some heroin too...I don’t give a fuck. I just want Mexican cartels destroyed and not glorified by lazy fucking stoners.

No, it is not a big deal to me as I do not wish to use it. But if I can sit in my house and drink a beer someone else should be able to sit in their house and smoke a joint.

That is what is known as liberty

But you do not care about liberty, you only care about control....what you can put in your body, who you can marry...and then you lie and pretend to care about liberty.

 

[Bush92]

The right of the political spectrum is about liberty...the left is about oppression.

This from the guy that fights to deny people the liberty to use marijuana if they choose to. You my friend are a fraud, you are all about control and nothing else

Oh, I see. Pot is that big a deal to you. Hey, shoot some heroin too...I don’t give a fuck. I just want Mexican cartels destroyed and not glorified by lazy fucking stoners.

No, it is not a big deal to me as I do not wish to use it. But if I can sit in my house and drink a beer someone else should be able to sit in their house and smoke a joint.

That is what is known as liberty

But you do not care about liberty, you only care about control....what you can put in your body, who you can marry...and then you lie and pretend to care about liberty.

So someone should be able to sit in their car before walking into work and down a six pack...just like people who sit in their car and get high before going into work?

 

[Bush92]

The right of the political spectrum is about liberty...the left is about oppression.

This from the guy that fights to deny people the liberty to use marijuana if they choose to. You my friend are a fraud, you are all about control and nothing else

Oh, I see. Pot is that big a deal to you. Hey, shoot some heroin too...I don’t give a fuck. I just want Mexican cartels destroyed and not glorified by lazy fucking stoners.

No, it is not a big deal to me as I do not wish to use it. But if I can sit in my house and drink a beer someone else should be able to sit in their house and smoke a joint.

That is what is known as liberty

But you do not care about liberty, you only care about control....what you can put in your body, who you can marry...and then you lie and pretend to care about liberty.

So you expect to have a society with no laws? Social contract theory...read up on it.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The right of the political spectrum is about liberty...the left is about oppression.

This from the guy that fights to deny people the liberty to use marijuana if they choose to. You my friend are a fraud, you are all about control and nothing else

Oh, I see. Pot is that big a deal to you. Hey, shoot some heroin too...I don’t give a fuck. I just want Mexican cartels destroyed and not glorified by lazy fucking stoners.

No, it is not a big deal to me as I do not wish to use it. But if I can sit in my house and drink a beer someone else should be able to sit in their house and smoke a joint.

That is what is known as liberty

But you do not care about liberty, you only care about control....what you can put in your body, who you can marry...and then you lie and pretend to care about liberty.

So someone should be able to sit in their car before walking into work and down a six pack...just like people who sit in their car and get high before going into work?

Neither one of those things are what I said. I said someone should be able to smoke a joint in their own house just like I can drink a beer.

How do you take that and twist it into people getting drunk before work?


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[Harpy Eagle]

The right of the political spectrum is about liberty...the left is about oppression.

This from the guy that fights to deny people the liberty to use marijuana if they choose to. You my friend are a fraud, you are all about control and nothing else

Oh, I see. Pot is that big a deal to you. Hey, shoot some heroin too...I don’t give a fuck. I just want Mexican cartels destroyed and not glorified by lazy fucking stoners.

No, it is not a big deal to me as I do not wish to use it. But if I can sit in my house and drink a beer someone else should be able to sit in their house and smoke a joint.

That is what is known as liberty

But you do not care about liberty, you only care about control....what you can put in your body, who you can marry...and then you lie and pretend to care about liberty.

So you expect to have a society with no laws? Social contract theory...read up on it.

This is what happens when one is not an extremist, the fanatics in both sides attack you. In a thread where I have been called a statist and much worse for believing there is a legitimate purpose for government I am then then accused of wanting no laws because I believe in personal liberty as well.




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[TNHarley]

There is no human right to be free from discrimination.

Would you be so kind as to explain that further?

You honestly think you are owed anything by anyone?

 

[Flash]

[Q

Luke. Feel the force. Come over to the dark side . . . . . . .

Anarchy is the Dark Side. Seductive but just like the other extreme of socialism is doomed to failure.

Socialism fails because human nature is to be greedy and lazy.

Anarchy fails because our basic nature is to be evil.

I'll settled for cutting the Federal budget down to less than a trillion a year, cutting state and local budgets by 2/3rds, doing away with 90% of the regulations on the books and adhering to the Constitution for a change. That is the way to make this country great again.

 

[Flash]

[


There are more than enough guns in the country to arm every man, woman, and child...Trying to mount a land war here would be an historical military blunder...And let's let other people worry about their own nation's defense.

My 50 or so firearms would not be very effective against Russian or Chinese tanks, ships, bombers or nuclear missiles, would they?