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I am single, live nicely on HALF of that each month.
Possible. But you are not the average American worker. Maybe your rent is a lot cheaper, maybe you have other advantages that we don't know about. The figures presented there are for a national average.
Minimum wage should not be set to allow someone the ability to afford average rent.
Also, minimum wage is not intended to allow someone to subsist all by themselves. Spouses, teens, and those working second jobs do not need a high minimum wage.
Seriously guys, this minimum wage stuff really shines a light on 'stupid'. Beat on another drum.
No one gives a crap about poor people, until you're poor.
Minimum wage has nothing at all to do with caring about poor people.
It certainly does when those workers are on public assistance. Min wage is nowhere near enough to live on. Even 9 or 10 bucks an hour is not enough.
Maybe. As I've said repeatedly. The issue you're whining about is solved indisputably by prohibiting employers from hiring people on public assistance. It, effectively, achieves what you're after - it prevents employers from paying people less than they could make on public assistance. But it preserves the liberty of people who want to work for less. What is wrong with that?
Seriously guys, this minimum wage stuff really shines a light on 'stupid'. Beat on another drum.
No one gives a crap about poor people, until you're poor.
Minimum wage has nothing at all to do with caring about poor people.
It certainly does when those workers are on public assistance. Min wage is nowhere near enough to live on. Even 9 or 10 bucks an hour is not enough.
Maybe. As I've said repeatedly. The issue you're whining about is solved indisputably by prohibiting employers from hiring people on public assistance. It, effectively, achieves what you're after - it prevents employers from paying people less than they could make on public assistance. But it preserves the liberty of people who want to work for less. What is wrong with that?
What is wrong with that, is that it doesn't bring new customers into my store. It also means that instead of hiring people who actually need a job, I will have to hirate people who don't really care and don't need the money. Or hire illegal immigrants maybe.
No one gives a crap about poor people, until you're poor.
Minimum wage has nothing at all to do with caring about poor people.
It certainly does when those workers are on public assistance. Min wage is nowhere near enough to live on. Even 9 or 10 bucks an hour is not enough.
Maybe. As I've said repeatedly. The issue you're whining about is solved indisputably by prohibiting employers from hiring people on public assistance. It, effectively, achieves what you're after - it prevents employers from paying people less than they could make on public assistance. But it preserves the liberty of people who want to work for less. What is wrong with that?
What is wrong with that, is that it doesn't bring new customers into my store. It also means that instead of hiring people who actually need a job, I will have to hirate people who don't really care and don't need the money. Or hire illegal immigrants maybe.
What??? How does minimum wage bring new customers into your store? And for that matter, why should we pass laws to bring new customers into your store??
Minimum wage has nothing at all to do with caring about poor people.
It certainly does when those workers are on public assistance. Min wage is nowhere near enough to live on. Even 9 or 10 bucks an hour is not enough.
Maybe. As I've said repeatedly. The issue you're whining about is solved indisputably by prohibiting employers from hiring people on public assistance. It, effectively, achieves what you're after - it prevents employers from paying people less than they could make on public assistance. But it preserves the liberty of people who want to work for less. What is wrong with that?
What is wrong with that, is that it doesn't bring new customers into my store. It also means that instead of hiring people who actually need a job, I will have to hirate people who don't really care and don't need the money. Or hire illegal immigrants maybe.
What??? How does minimum wage bring new customers into your store? And for that matter, why should we pass laws to bring new customers into your store??
Not just my store, but all small businesses. Market liquidity. More money in the pockets of workers means more spending.
It certainly does when those workers are on public assistance. Min wage is nowhere near enough to live on. Even 9 or 10 bucks an hour is not enough.
Maybe. As I've said repeatedly. The issue you're whining about is solved indisputably by prohibiting employers from hiring people on public assistance. It, effectively, achieves what you're after - it prevents employers from paying people less than they could make on public assistance. But it preserves the liberty of people who want to work for less. What is wrong with that?
What is wrong with that, is that it doesn't bring new customers into my store. It also means that instead of hiring people who actually need a job, I will have to hirate people who don't really care and don't need the money. Or hire illegal immigrants maybe.
What??? How does minimum wage bring new customers into your store? And for that matter, why should we pass laws to bring new customers into your store??
Not just my store, but all small businesses. Market liquidity. More money in the pockets of workers means more spending.
Which comes back to my question. What makes you think people will just spend more money because you tell them to? Will you? Will you spend fifty percent more on fast food? Or will you cut back because you can't afford it? That's the calculus you nitwits can't seem to comprehend. Wages are decided by consumers. WE decide how much burger flipping is worth - and we've decided "not much". You can pass a law that decrees it to be worth more, but it won't change how much people really value it. They'll buy less. Because they just don't think it's worth much. YOU don't think it's worth much (though I'm sure you won't admit it). If you did, you'd pay more. But you don't. Your whole point of view is based on bullshit.
Maybe. As I've said repeatedly. The issue you're whining about is solved indisputably by prohibiting employers from hiring people on public assistance. It, effectively, achieves what you're after - it prevents employers from paying people less than they could make on public assistance. But it preserves the liberty of people who want to work for less. What is wrong with that?
What is wrong with that, is that it doesn't bring new customers into my store. It also means that instead of hiring people who actually need a job, I will have to hirate people who don't really care and don't need the money. Or hire illegal immigrants maybe.
What??? How does minimum wage bring new customers into your store? And for that matter, why should we pass laws to bring new customers into your store??
Not just my store, but all small businesses. Market liquidity. More money in the pockets of workers means more spending.
Which comes back to my question. What makes you think people will just spend more money because you tell them to? Will you? Will you spend fifty percent more on fast food? Or will you cut back because you can't afford it? That's the calculus you nitwits can't seem to comprehend. Wages are decided by consumers. WE decide how much burger flipping is worth - and we've decided "not much". You can pass a law that decrees it to be worth more, but it won't change how much people really value it. They'll buy less. Because they just don't think it's worth much. YOU don't think it's worth much (though I'm sure you won't admit it). If you did, you'd pay more. But you don't. Your whole point of view is based on bullshit.
Are you being deliberately dense now or what? I have already explained all of this to you, with simple pictures that even a 4th grader could understand. Prices will not increase. Spending will increase though because people will now be able to afford many of the things they were forced to go without. The working class saves very little of their money. Our economy is driven by the consumer spending of the working class. The economy is in the crapper right now because fewer and fewer workers are able to even afford basic necessities, much less discretionary spending on things like going to a movie, or even just going for a Sunday drive. That lack of spending is absolutely killing small business, and driving people to places like WalMart where they can stretch every last penny. Instead of going to local grocers to get some nice fresh meats and produce once or twice a week, workers are now taking their foodstamps down to WalMart once a month to buy cases of ramen.
What is wrong with that, is that it doesn't bring new customers into my store. It also means that instead of hiring people who actually need a job, I will have to hirate people who don't really care and don't need the money. Or hire illegal immigrants maybe.
What??? How does minimum wage bring new customers into your store? And for that matter, why should we pass laws to bring new customers into your store??
Not just my store, but all small businesses. Market liquidity. More money in the pockets of workers means more spending.
Which comes back to my question. What makes you think people will just spend more money because you tell them to? Will you? Will you spend fifty percent more on fast food? Or will you cut back because you can't afford it? That's the calculus you nitwits can't seem to comprehend. Wages are decided by consumers. WE decide how much burger flipping is worth - and we've decided "not much". You can pass a law that decrees it to be worth more, but it won't change how much people really value it. They'll buy less. Because they just don't think it's worth much. YOU don't think it's worth much (though I'm sure you won't admit it). If you did, you'd pay more. But you don't. Your whole point of view is based on bullshit.
Are you being deliberately dense now or what? I have already explained all of this to you, with simple pictures that even a 4th grader could understand. Prices will not increase. Spending will increase though because people will now be able to afford many of the things they were forced to go without. The working class saves very little of their money. Our economy is driven by the consumer spending of the working class. The economy is in the crapper right now because fewer and fewer workers are able to even afford basic necessities, much less discretionary spending on things like going to a movie, or even just going for a Sunday drive. That lack of spending is absolutely killing small business, and driving people to places like WalMart where they can stretch every last penny. Instead of going to local grocers to get some nice fresh meats and produce once or twice a week, workers are now taking their foodstamps down to WalMart once a month to buy cases of ramen.
Nonsense. Even with an extreme increase in the minimum wage, only a small percentage of people will have more money to spend - if they can keep their jobs.
You fail to understand how wages are set. They're based on how much consumers value the labor being performed. That won't change simply because Congress decrees it to. You still won't face the question I've asked you - because it lays bare the idiocy of your position. People won't spend more because government tells them to.
Doubling the min wage would effect a very large number of workers, not just a small percentage. Not to mention the overall boost to the economy and the positive economic effect even for those above that mark.
Minimum wage should not be set to allow someone the ability to afford average rent.
Also, minimum wage is not intended to allow someone to subsist all by themselves. Spouses, teens, and those working second jobs do not need a high minimum wage.
Doubling the min wage would effect a very large number of workers, not just a small percentage. Not to mention the overall boost to the economy and the positive economic effect even for those above that mark.
Doubling the minimum wage would be catastrophic and drive a large chunk of our economy into the underground. Which is exactly why it won't happen.
I am retired, idiot.Your job should be illegal!!I am single, live nicely on HALF of that each month.Minimum wage is to protect entry level workers.On this page, we will itemize a sample budget for a single person in order to analyze what a fair standard would be for a minimum-wage worker. It is our position that a person working eight hours a day, five days a week, at any job, should be able to support themselves to a minimum basic standard of living. This practical wage is necessary in order to elevate the class of working poor to contributing members of society. Working for anything less than what is needed to subsist on independently, is nothing short of slavery.
All figures are based on national averages, for a Federal standard.
RENT ------------------------------$1000
BASIC UTILITIES --------------$200
ADVANCED UTILITIES ------$150
FOOD ------------------------------$300
NON-FOOD GROCERY -----$50
CLOTHING -----------------------$75
TRANSPORTATION ----------$500
HEALTHCARE -----------------$350
MISCELLANEOUS -----------$400
------------------------------------------------------
Average Basic Monthly Expenses $3,025
A full-time job at 40 hours per week is 173.2 hours per month calculating 4.33 weeks in each month. To find a reasonable minimum wage, we divide the average basic monthly expenses figure, by the number of hours worked. For the average American worker to support themselves without government assistance or by borrowing beyond their means, that worker must earn...
$17.47 per hour
Of course, that figure must be after all taxes and contributions are taken, or that anyone earning that amount must be exempt from all such garnishments and liability. A person who cannot even afford to pay their own way, cannot afford to pay taxes. Forcing them to pay taxes that will jeopardize their basic standard of living, is unsound economics and in the long run will only force other taxpayers to subsidize those workers, in turn jeopardizing their own living standard, in a perpetual cycle that we see happening today as more workers descend into deep poverty.
If $17.47 per hour seems unreasonable to you, or just downright impossible, consider a few more facts. There was a time when a grocery clerk, or a department store salesperson could actually support themselves on what they earned. That is not so today.
Using data by the U.S. BLS, the average productivity per American worker has increased 400% since 1950. One way to look at that is that it should only take one-quarter the work hours, or 11 hours per week, to afford the same standard of living as a worker in 1950 (or our standard of living should be 4 times higher). Is that the case? Obviously not. Someone is profiting, it’s just not the average American worker. -Source
Based on consumption growth since 1968, the minimum wage today would have to be $25.05 to represent the same share of the country's total consumption. Based on national income growth, the minimum wage should be $22.08. Based on personal income growth, it should be $21.16. -Source
After adjusting for inflation, minimum wage workers today are paid about 26 percent less than they were in 1974.
At the top 1 percent of the American income distribution, average incomes rose 194 percent between 1974 and 2011. Had U.S. minimum wages risen at the same pace as U.S. maximum wages, the minimum wage would now be $26.96 an hour. -Source
Here is a detailed description of how we arrived at our sample budget figures:
Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America
It is not the ticket to a middle class life.
Nobody is supposed to raise a family on minimum wage.
Get fuckin' real.
Doesn't say anything there about living middle class or raising a family. Those numbers are for a single person, living on their own, to meet basic living expenses.
Titty-baby tantrum.Minimum wage should not be set to allow someone the ability to afford average rent.
Also, minimum wage is not intended to allow someone to subsist all by themselves. Spouses, teens, and those working second jobs do not need a high minimum wage.
Sociopath rant......
Where do single people pay $1,000 a month rent?Ride the fucken bus and dont spend 400 for miscellaneous bullshit and you'll save 900 bucks a month.
That was already factored in to the analysis.
Riding the bus wont run you 500 a month. And what the hell are you buying thats "miscellaneous" that costs you 400 a month? Let me guess...weed.
This isn't MY budget. These are national figures and recommended economic practices. Miscellaneous costs can be any number of things from a traffic ticket to a fender bender to a flooded out apartment to school supplies.
Notice this guy makes no mention of training, education or skills set that would allow your to EARN your keep.Where is it written that one 40 hour a week job is supposed to pay all your expenses?
Yes, I see, you are a Grubercrat, seeking to free the people from the tyranny of work.
if you don't put them on welfare there is no welfare class.
Welfare is very dangerous becuase it makes people lazy and dependent. We found when Clinton eliminated welfare as we know it by making it workfare fully half decided they no longer needed welfare.
Yet today, fully half of all people on welfare have jobs. There is no reason in hell why someone who gets up and goes to work everyday should have to report to the welfare office every month in order to get by.
Absolutely. Companies should not be allowed to profit from the welfare system. They shouldn't be allowed to hire anyone on public assistance.
"THE CHILDREN" long ago replaced patriotism as the last refuge of scoundrels.dear, we know the cure for poverty!! China just saved 60 million from slowly starving to death with capitalism!! Do you read the papers??Absolutely. Companies should not be allowed to profit from the welfare system. They shouldn't be allowed to hire anyone on public assistance.
Agreed. And a practical min wage achieves that.
No it doesn't. It just makes it illegal for anyone to work for less. It forces people on public assistance who might otherwise work.
Ed... for the love of gawd. THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!
If you're so poor how much could it possibly cost to move? And who the hell moves before finding a job?
You do understand that most everyone here has worked a min wage job at some point in their lives yet they managed to work their way up.
And many people who were once career professionals are now stuck in min wage jobs.
Okay, so you manage to find a job closer to an urban hub where there is public transportation. Now your rent is higher, and so is the general cost of living. How is that a solution?
And moving does cost money. A moving van, security deposit, travel expenses, etc.
Oh, I guess I'll have to slit my wrists.I am single, live nicely on HALF of that each month.
Your lack of self-worth is astounding!
