.,,,,an interesting AP/NORC poll about last January in DC...

[Chillicothe]

"Polling on Jan. 6 shows the vast majority of Americans aren’t crazy"​

"A new Associated Press-NORC poll shows results similar to other major polling. Some 57 percent say former president Donald Trump deserves “a great deal” or “quite a bit” of the blame; that number grows to 70 percent hold when we include respondents who think Trump was moderately to blame.
Even 4 in 10 Republicans say he bears at least a moderate amount of responsibility. It’s still mind-blowing that 60 percent of Republicans say Trump bears little or no responsibility; that number, however, is 11 points lower than it was a year ago.

In addition, the poll says, “Nearly two-thirds of Americans say the riot was extremely or very violent, and about 7 in 10 think Congress should continue investigating the events of January 6.”
Two things can be true:
1) Millions of Americans are deluded about Jan. 6 and think violence is acceptable,
2) A big majority know Trump was responsible, support the Jan. 6 committee and reject violence as a way to settle elections. Once we come to grips with that dichotomy, several responses should follow."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/05/polling-jan-6-trump-blame/

 

[DGS49]

(1). Despite a full year of trying, Trump's enemies have not found a single item of evidence that Trump fomented a "riot," or even encouraged one. On the contrary, there are lots of copies and recordings of him promoting a peaceful demonstration and encouraging the demonstrators to be non-violent and, later, to go home. The best that Trump's opponents have been able to come up with was that Trump "could have done more" to make the rioters stop, earlier in the day. What Democrat has ever been held to that standard? Ever.

(2). Trump's supporters had PLENTY of reason to be pissed off, and there were (and remain) many, many good reasons to believe that the 2020 election was stolen. Chief among the reasons to be pissed off was that NO COURT had been willing to look at any evidence of malfeasance or wrongdoing on the part of partisan election officials, and every single court had tossed out the complaints on procedural grounds. Which remains the case.

(3). Not a single firearm has been found among the rioters, and the rioters caused not a single death, and yet the illicit Media continue to describe this as an "armed, deadly insurrection." (Yes, I suppose the rioters had arms, with fingers, fingernails, and all that.)

(4). The Capitol riots were nowhere near as violent or destructive as the bullshit riots that went on throughout the Summer of 2020, whose perpetrators went largely unpunished.

(5). Not a single rioter has been charged with insurrection, sedition, or anything resembling those crimes. Many of the rioters have been deprived of their constitutional rights continuously for many months on end, and yet the ACLU and other communist "civill rights" organizations are SUPPORTIVE OF THESE ILLEGALITIES. [The Left is evil]. And despite the ACLU's constant complaint that solitary confinement is TORTURE, they have filed not a single motion to end this treatment of the demonstrators after nearly a year of this practice, which is publicly known and acknowledged.

(6). Yes, some episodes during the riot were violent. So what? Arrest and prosecute the perpetrators of the violence. NO REPUBLICAN public figure has even hinted that these rioters should get a pass. Contrast this with the rioters in the "George Floyd" bullshit riots, when no Democrat either locally or nationally would stand up and say that these threats and harms of people and destruction of property were unacceptable. Let alone "criminal."

To the OP: WHO EXACTLY has said that "violence is acceptable"? Name and quote, please. Who is deluded? Quotations and explanation, please.

Trump asked his supporters for a peaceful but strong demonstration at the Capitol. Is this not a Constitutional right?

You ******* idiot.

 

[rightwinger]

Despite a full year of trying, Trump's enemies have not found a single item of evidence that Trump fomented a "riot," or even encouraged one.

Trump created a lie that the 2020 election was stolen
Trump encouraged supporters to come to DC to protest
Trump told them Congress or Pence could overturn the election
Trump told them to stop Congress from certifying the election
Trump questioned Pence’s patriotism while the mob stormed the Capitol
Trump sat idly watching TV as his mob stormed the Capitol

 

[TNHarley]

Trump created a lie that the 2020 election was stolen
Trump encouraged supporters to come to DC to protest
Trump told them Congress or Pence could overturn the election
Trump told them to stop Congress from certifying the election
Trump questioned Pence’s patriotism while the mob stormed the Capitol
Trump sat idly watching TV as his mob stormed the Capitol

So politicians that say people should protest and they turn to riots, should be held accountable?

 

[rightwinger]

So politicians that say people should protest and they turn to riots, should be held accountable?

Yes they should be held accountable if they created a lie that led to the protest.

Suppose in the 1950s a white woman created a lie that a black man had raped her.

An angry mob forms outside the jail where the accused man is being held and the woman continues to tell the lie.

If the man is lynched, is the woman responsible?

 

[TNHarley]

Yes they should be held accountable if they created a lie that led to the protest.

Suppose in the 1950s a white woman created a lie that a black man had raped her.

An angry mob forms outside the jail where the accused man is being held and the woman continues to tell the lie.

If the man is lynched, is the woman responsible?

Good gawd you are so disingenuous

 

[Independent thinker]

"Polling on Jan. 6 shows the vast majority of Americans aren’t crazy"​

"A new Associated Press-NORC poll shows results similar to other major polling. Some 57 percent say former president Donald Trump deserves “a great deal” or “quite a bit” of the blame; that number grows to 70 percent hold when we include respondents who think Trump was moderately to blame.
Even 4 in 10 Republicans say he bears at least a moderate amount of responsibility. It’s still mind-blowing that 60 percent of Republicans say Trump bears little or no responsibility; that number, however, is 11 points lower than it was a year ago.

In addition, the poll says, “Nearly two-thirds of Americans say the riot was extremely or very violent, and about 7 in 10 think Congress should continue investigating the events of January 6.”
Two things can be true:
1) Millions of Americans are deluded about Jan. 6 and think violence is acceptable,
2) A big majority know Trump was responsible, support the Jan. 6 committee and reject violence as a way to settle elections. Once we come to grips with that dichotomy, several responses should follow."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/05/polling-jan-6-trump-blame/

The thing is this, several years ago Bernie continually called for "a revolution" and one of his followers went to DC and shot up Republicans, trying to kill them. Bernie was not accused of anything and Republicans didn't even want to partisanly investigate that "insurrection" and yet now partisan Democrats want to hold Trump accountable and investigate an insurrection.

 

[rightwinger]

Good gawd you are so disingenuous

Trump created a lie because he has too big an ego to admit defeat
People believed his lie and rioted because of it
People died

Trump is responsible

 

[Faun]

(1). Despite a full year of trying, Trump's enemies have not found a single item of evidence that Trump fomented a "riot," or even encouraged one. On the contrary, there are lots of copies and recordings of him promoting a peaceful demonstration and encouraging the demonstrators to be non-violent and, later, to go home. The best that Trump's opponents have been able to come up with was that Trump "could have done more" to make the rioters stop, earlier in the day. What Democrat has ever been held to that standard? Ever.

(2). Trump's supporters had PLENTY of reason to be pissed off, and there were (and remain) many, many good reasons to believe that the 2020 election was stolen. Chief among the reasons to be pissed off was that NO COURT had been willing to look at any evidence of malfeasance or wrongdoing on the part of partisan election officials, and every single court had tossed out the complaints on procedural grounds. Which remains the case.

(3). Not a single firearm has been found among the rioters, and the rioters caused not a single death, and yet the illicit Media continue to describe this as an "armed, deadly insurrection." (Yes, I suppose the rioters had arms, with fingers, fingernails, and all that.)

(4). The Capitol riots were nowhere near as violent or destructive as the bullshit riots that went on throughout the Summer of 2020, whose perpetrators went largely unpunished.

(5). Not a single rioter has been charged with insurrection, sedition, or anything resembling those crimes. Many of the rioters have been deprived of their constitutional rights continuously for many months on end, and yet the ACLU and other communist "civill rights" organizations are SUPPORTIVE OF THESE ILLEGALITIES. [The Left is evil]. And despite the ACLU's constant complaint that solitary confinement is TORTURE, they have filed not a single motion to end this treatment of the demonstrators after nearly a year of this practice, which is publicly known and acknowledged.

(6). Yes, some episodes during the riot were violent. So what? Arrest and prosecute the perpetrators of the violence. NO REPUBLICAN public figure has even hinted that these rioters should get a pass. Contrast this with the rioters in the "George Floyd" bullshit riots, when no Democrat either locally or nationally would stand up and say that these threats and harms of people and destruction of property were unacceptable. Let alone "criminal."

To the OP: WHO EXACTLY has said that "violence is acceptable"? Name and quote, please. Who is deluded? Quotations and explanation, please.

Trump asked his supporters for a peaceful but strong demonstration at the Capitol. Is this not a Constitutional right?

You ******* idiot.

Why did many of his supporters storm the Capitol?

 

[TNHarley]

Trump created a lie because he has too big an ego to admit defeat
People believed his lie and rioted because of it
People died

Trump is responsible

Nobody is responsible for those people except themselves.
You just look for any bullshit you can think of to justify your hackery.
I hope to gawd you cultist wingers grow the **** up one day.

 

[rightwinger]

Nobody is responsible for those people except themselves.
You just look for any bullshit you can think of to justify your hackery.
I hope to gawd you cultist wingers grow the **** up one day.

They acted on a LIE

If someone lies and tells you that food is safe and that person knows it is not safe and you eat the food and die

The person who told the lie is responsible.

 

[TNHarley]

They acted on a LIE

If someone lies and tells you that food is safe and that person knows it is not safe and you eat the food and die

The person who told the lie is responsible.

Like when democrat politicians scream about police before evidence has been put forth about a death of a civilian? Then leads to riots, multiple murders and billions in damages?
Shit like that?

 

[rightwinger]

Like when democrat politicians scream about police before evidence has been put forth about a death of a civilian? Then leads to riots, multiple murders and billions in damages?
Shit like that?

They acted on available evidence at the time

Trump created a LIE without evidence and urged an angry mob to do something about it.

People died

 

[TNHarley]

They acted on available evidence at the time

Trump created a LIE without evidence and urged an angry mob to do something about it.

People died

As i said, I hope to gawd you miserable cultists grow the **** up one day.
You are a blight on humanity.

 

[22lcidw]

Yes they should be held accountable if they created a lie that led to the protest.

Suppose in the 1950s a white woman created a lie that a black man had raped her.

An angry mob forms outside the jail where the accused man is being held and the woman continues to tell the lie.

If the man is lynched, is the woman responsible?

I believed elections have been stolen for decades. And even longer with proven corrupted voting areas.

 

[rightwinger]

I believed elections have been stolen for decades. And even longer with proven corrupted voting areas.

Some believe the earth is flat also

 

[Chillicothe]

"1). Despite a full year of trying,......"

-------------------------------------------------

Whew!! That’s a big humongous post. And done without long quoting passages or links.
So, a hat-tip for the efforts of good poster DGS49.

It is so long that I likely shouldn’t try to pull the whole thing into the USMB quote-function. After all, there is only so much bandwidth.
Still, I would like to address specific issues raised…yet keep the context.

So let’s do this. I will suggest to all readers that they should refer back to post #2, and its conveniently numbered paragraphs when my avatar pulls a quote for comment.

Let's saddle up.
Paragraph #1, is first in the chute:

(1). "Despite a full year of trying, Trump's enemies have not found a single item of evidence that Trump fomented a "riot," or even encouraged one."
I demur. For a couple of reasons. First, unless a video or audio recording comes up such evidence will be circumstantial, e.g. ‘Come to Washington. It will be wild.” “You gotta fight, fight’……coupled with the context offered by witnesses who were on the scene and can offer credible testimony. Second, this cake is still baking. Testimony is still being taken. Witnesses are still coming forward. I would rate DGS49’s assertion……incomplete and pre-mature.

Next, from paragraph #2:

(2). Trump's supporters had PLENTY of reason to be pissed off…. that NO COURT had been willing to look at any evidence of malfeasance or wrongdoing on the part of partisan election officials, and every single court had tossed out the complaints on procedural grounds.

Ummm, I demur.
The poster is in error.
A quick Wicki scan will show one pages and pages of footnoted reference linking to the court cases. A number of actions were rapidly dismissed for lack of standing, or for irrelevance. In a significant number there was no need for a judge to hear evidence….as the Trump team themselves dropped the action beforehand. It was suspected they were filed merely to ‘create buzz’, or an impression of impropriety.
But, in a significant number a judge did see or hear evidence….and then ruled against Trump.
Here’s a quick paragraph on one that went before a judge as reported on November 5th, 2020 (Wicki is your friend.):

“The campaign presented two witnesses who said they were worried about a break in the chain of custody for 53 ballots. Under questioning by the county’s lawyer, they admitted they didn’t have evidence that those ballots had arrived late, however. A county official testified that the ballots had, in fact, arrived on time and were handled separately because they needed to be specially checked and entered into a computer system.”

-----------------------------------------------------------

Those two make for a big post, already.
So let's break this response up .... and put more in a second post. Which follows shortly.

 

[Chillicothe]

OK, back at the plate.
Let's go to #3:


(3). “Not a single firearm has been found among the rioters, and the rioters caused not a single death, and yet the illicit Media continue to describe this as an "armed, deadly insurrection."

I demur.
Politi-Facts offered us this in February of 2021:
“Fourteen people tied to the Jan. 6 attack are facing federal charges related to bringing or using dangerous weapons inside the building and two are facing firearms-related charges, according to the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia.

NBC News reported that within a week after the attack a dozen guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition had been found on seven people arrested before and after the Capitol riot.”
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On to #4:

(4). "The Capitol riots were nowhere near as violent or destructive as the bullshit riots that went on throughout the Summer of 2020, whose perpetrators went largely unpunished."
I demur.

Nearly 10,000 people were arrested and sentenced due to activity during the thousands of demonstrations linked to the social justice/police brutality events sparked by the Floyd murder.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(5). Not a single rioter has been charged with insurrection, sedition, or anything resembling those crimes.
I demur.
The good poster is perhaps starting to get a bit histrionic late into his long post (e.g., “The Left is evil.” “communist civil rights organizations”, et al.) Hey, it happens. We are not here to judge.

It is true, that to date none of the arrestees has been charged with insurrection or sedition, but…..but the cake is still baking. Witnesses are still coming forward. Arrests still being made. And testimony still being recorded.

And besides, does it matter all that much? After all, Sirhan Sirhan was not arrested and charged with assassinating RFK, but Bobby is still dead. And Sirhan still in prison.
For murder.

So, in a parallel to Sirhan Sirhan…..if one of the January 6th attackers is sentenced to the 20 year maximum for “disrupting an official proceeding”……does it matter to us, if he sidestepped the 10 year maximum sentence for “Insurrection”?

I would argue…..no it doesn’t. At least to my poor avatar, it doesn;t, YMMV
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lastly…….from good poster DGS45: ”You ******* idiot.”

Well, I demur, pending further details.

But my avatar will assert that it is arguable. Though subjective.

If the good poster DGS45 has empirical data to support his assertion…well, I assure him my avatar will closely review and consider editorial re-calibration, if deemed necessary.

 

[Oddball]

Good gawd you are so disingenuous

Used to think he was stupid...Nope....He's just a chronic compulsive liar.