American Legion Joins VFW in Call for Congressional Investigation of Israel's Attack on USS Liberty

[munkle]

You have not gone to the archives and listened to or read the transcripts and all other available info from the multiple investigations. You only hear what you want to hear. Even if you did, something tells me that still would not satisfy you, because of your hatred for Israel. Sadly, part of the fault for the accident rests on our shoulders.

I told you I researched it myself. They are all in the archives, for you, if you really want an informed decision. But I suspect you don’t. You are just an anti Semitic.

What kind of investigation is it when the survivors are not allowed to testify?

“The Liberty Incident Revealed is the complete and final story about the Israeli Air Force and Navy attack on the USS Liberty during the Six Day War in June 1967. Cutting through all of the controversy and conspiracy theories about Israel’s deadly attack, Cristol revises his well-regarded book about the event with an expanded and in-depth analysis of all of the sources, including the released tapes of the National Security Agency (NSA) intercepts.

When Cristol’s first book on the subject, The Liberty Incident, was published in 2002, there remained many unanswered questions about Israeli Air Force audio tapes. The NSA intercepts tapes had not yet been released in 2002. Some conspiracy theorists alleged the NSA tapes would prove that the Israeli attack was premeditated. Cristol’s successful Freedom of Information Act lawsuit against the NSA, while resulting in the release of those tapes, has been greeted by anti-Israel sources insisting that the NSA tapes are fraudulent and are part of a larger conspiracy to deceive the American public.

After a quarter of a century of intensive research in both Israel and the U.S., researching all relevant archives from NSA, CIA and the State Department, reviewing both formerly classified and open source documents, and interviewing all then-living individuals directly involved in the incident, the factual and documentary record is clear. Cristol maintains that despite the fact that all of the official records and transcripts are now available for review, the truth has proven to be of no interest to those individuals and organizations who are motivated by hidden agendas, wish to keep conspiracy theories alive, or are trying to feed sensational stories to the media. Documenting his findings in six new chapters, Cristol establishes definitively that the Israeli attack was a tragic mistake and presents a convincing argument that will be regarded as the final chapter in the long-simmering debate about this incident.”
The Liberty Incident Revealed | U.S. Naval Institute
.......
Besides this book, you can go to the archives and pull up all the audio tapes, etc. and listen to them yourself. Read all the reports, etc. I did that awhile back. The answer is it was an accident. Just others want to blame Israel any chance they can get. Now you can take the time to research and listen and read like I did, or you can choose to listen to the conspiracy theorists wishing to find a way to blame Israel, unjustly. That is totally up to you.

Are kidding you are quoting Cristol the man who presents himself as a "combat pilot" in the Korean War although he never got closer than the training base? Cristol is easily eviscerated.

Cristol claims to have interviewed people that he didn't, and cites testimony from anonymous crew members, he says, to prevent "friction" with their shipmates.

Your post said:

After a quarter of a century of intensive research in both Israel and the U.S., researching all relevant archives from NSA, CIA and the State Department, reviewing both formerly classified and open source documents, and interviewing all then-living individuals directly involved in the incident, the factual and documentary record is clear.

But Captain Ward Boston, legal counsel for the Naval Court of Inquiry who has come out for the Liberty survivors, writes in an affidavit:

In 1990, I received a telephone call from Jay Cristol, who wanted to interview me concerning the functioning of the Court of Inquiry. I told him that I would not speak to him on that subject and prepared to hang up the telephone. Cristol then began asking me about my personal background and other, non-Court of Inquiry related matters. I endeavored to answer these questions and politely extricate myself from the conversation. Cristol continued to return to the subject of the Court of Inquiry, which I refused to discuss with him. Finally, I suggested that he contact Admiral Kidd and ask him about the Court of Inquiry.
...
Several years later, I received a letter from Cristol that contained what he purported to be his notes of our prior conversation. These “notes” were grossly incorrect and bore no resemblance in reality to that discussion. I find it hard to believe that these “notes” were the product of a mistake, rather than an attempt to deceive. I informed Cristol that I disagreed with his recollection of our conversation and that he was wrong. Cristol made several attempts to arrange for the two of us to meet in person and talk but I always found ways to avoid doing this. I did not wish to meet with Cristol as we had nothing in common and I did not trust him.

Contrary to the misinformation presented by Cristol and others, it is important for the American people to know that it is clear that Israel is responsible for deliberately attacking an American ship and murdering American sailors, whose bereaved shipmates have lived with this egregious conclusion for many years.

Dated: January 9, 2004
at Coronado, California.
Ward Boston, Jr., Captain, JAGC, USN (Ret.)
Senior Counsel to the USS Liberty Court of Inquiry

Affidavit of Captain Ward Boston, USN, JAG (Ret.)

So Cristol is a liar. He presents himself as a "federal judge" but he is really a bankruptcy judge which is not confirmed by the US Senate but appointed by a circuit judge. He is just a government employee.

Your post said:

The NSA intercepts tapes had not yet been released in 2002.

The Chicago Tribune reports:

On its Web site, the NSA has posted three recordings of Israeli communications made on June 8, 1967. But none of the recordings is of the attack itself.
...
The three recordings reflect what the NSA describes as "the aftermath" of the attack -- Israeli communications with two Israeli helicopters dispatched to rescue any survivors who may have jumped into the water.

Two of the recordings were made by Michael Prostinak, a Hebrew linguist aboard a U.S. Navy EC-121, a lumbering propeller-driven aircraft specially equipped to gather electronic intelligence.

But Prostinak said he was certain that more than three recordings were made that day.

"I can tell you there were more tapes than just the three on the Internet," he said. "No doubt in my mind, more than three tapes."

At least one of the missing tapes, Prostinak said, captured Israeli communications "in which people were not just tranquil or taking care of business as normal. We knew that something was being attacked," Prostinak said. "Everyone we were listening to was excited. You know, it was an actual attack. And during the attack was when mention of the American flag was made."
...
After listening to the three recordings released by the NSA, Prostinak said it was clear from the sequence in which they were numbered that at least two tapes that had once existed were not there.

One tape, designated A1104/A-02, begins at 2:29 p.m. local time, just after the Liberty was hit by the torpedo. Prostinak said there was a preceding tape, A1104/A-01.

That tape likely would have recorded much of the attack, which began with the air assault at 1:56 p.m. Prostinak said a second tape, which preceded one beginning at 3:07 p.m., made by another linguist aboard the same plane, also appeared to be missing.

Furthermore, the Chicago Tribune reports:

"I don't think you'll find many people at NSA who believe it was accidental," Benson Buffham, a former deputy NSA director,

The US Naval Institute which your post on the Cristol book is not, despite its name, an official government organization in any way affiliated with the Navy or the Naval Academy. It is a private non-profit made of of retirees. United States Naval Institute - Wikipedia

Some sense of Cristol's skilled and deceptive manner of arguing can be gotten from this article of his, in which he criticizes Capt. Ward Boston:

First, a look at the article raises a question of whether it was written by Ward Boston or written by someone else for him. The first paragraph talks of the"bombing" of the ship. Boston was aware and the record is clear, the ship was not bombed. It was attacked with 30MM cannons by the aircraft and then by 20MM cannon, 50 caliber machine guns and torpedoes by the torpedo boats.

But the Chicago Tribune reports:

Twenty minutes later, after the Liberty had been hit repeatedly by machine guns, 30 mm cannon and napalm from the Israelis' French-built Mirage and Mystere fighter-bombers New revelations in attack on American spy ship

Napalm is commonly referred to as a "napalm bomb." So Cristol could be technically correct, if he means dropped explosive. But he makes no mention of the napalm bombs.

Cristol also writes:

The second paragraph says 34 American sailors died. In fact, 33 sailors and one NSA civilian died. Why You Shouldn't Pay Attention to the Claims that Israel Attacked the USS Liberty Deliberately | History News Network

That is enough to show that Cristol is a cover-up artist, making distinctions with no meaningful difference in order to appear to be scoring points.

In the same article Cristol writes:

The next paragraph is a repetition of the demand of various conspiracy theorists requesting a congressional hearing and suggesting the survivors be allowed to testify. One hundred and fifty four pages of sworn testimony of the Liberty’s Captain, William McGonagle, the ship’s officers and key crew members was taken on June 13 and June 14, 1967 and is available for review by any member of the public. Why You Shouldn't Pay Attention to the Claims that Israel Attacked the USS Liberty Deliberately | History News Network

But the very few crew members who were interviewed say they were only allowed to answer the questions that were posed, and not allowed to add anything else. For example, Lloyd Painter was stopped from describing an Israeli patrol boats circling the ship for 40 minutes and machine-gunning life rafts and crew members. In addition, Cristol says nothing about the gag order,

And a final example of one of Cristol's purported "gotchas":

And an even better question, if the Israelis intended to sink the Liberty, then why didn't the Israeli Armed Forces, which had destroyed the entire Egyptian Air Force in minutes, had destroyed thousands of Egyptian tanks and artillery in a few days, had captured the Sinai, the Suez Canal, the Old City of Jerusalem, the West Bank and a day later destroyed the Syrian army and its armor and captured the Golan Heights, all in six days, why didn’t they sink the ship, if that is what they intended?

“The Liberty Incident Revealed is the complete and final story about the Israeli Air Force and Navy attack on the USS Liberty during the Six Day War in June 1967. Cutting through all of the controversy and conspiracy theories about Israel’s deadly attack, Cristol revises his well-regarded book about the event with an expanded and in-depth analysis of all of the sources, including the released tapes of the National Security Agency (NSA) intercepts.

When Cristol’s first book on the subject, The Liberty Incident, was published in 2002, there remained many unanswered questions about Israeli Air Force audio tapes. The NSA intercepts tapes had not yet been released in 2002. Some conspiracy theorists alleged the NSA tapes would prove that the Israeli attack was premeditated. Cristol’s successful Freedom of Information Act lawsuit against the NSA, while resulting in the release of those tapes, has been greeted by anti-Israel sources insisting that the NSA tapes are fraudulent and are part of a larger conspiracy to deceive the American public.

After a quarter of a century of intensive research in both Israel and the U.S., researching all relevant archives from NSA, CIA and the State Department, reviewing both formerly classified and open source documents, and interviewing all then-living individuals directly involved in the incident, the factual and documentary record is clear. Cristol maintains that despite the fact that all of the official records and transcripts are now available for review, the truth has proven to be of no interest to those individuals and organizations who are motivated by hidden agendas, wish to keep conspiracy theories alive, or are trying to feed sensational stories to the media. Documenting his findings in six new chapters, Cristol establishes definitively that the Israeli attack was a tragic mistake and presents a convincing argument that will be regarded as the final chapter in the long-simmering debate about this incident.”
The Liberty Incident Revealed | U.S. Naval Institute
.......
Besides this book, you can go to the archives and pull up all the audio tapes, etc. and listen to them yourself. Read all the reports, etc. I did that awhile back. The answer is it was an accident. Just others want to blame Israel any chance they can get. Now you can take the time to research and listen and read like I did, or you can choose to listen to the conspiracy theorists wishing to find a way to blame Israel, unjustly. That is totally up to you.

Are kidding you are quoting Cristol the man who presents himself as a "combat pilot" in the Korean War although he never got closer than the training base? Cristol is easily eviscerated.

Cristol claims to have interviewed crew members when he didn't, and cites testimony from anonymous crew members, he says, to prevent "friction" with their shipmates.

Your post said:

After a quarter of a century of intensive research in both Israel and the U.S., researching all relevant archives from NSA, CIA and the State Department, reviewing both formerly classified and open source documents, and interviewing all then-living individuals directly involved in the incident, the factual and documentary record is clear.

But Captain Ward Boston, legal counsel for the Naval Court of Inquiry who has come out for the Liberty survivors, writes in an affidavit:

In 1990, I received a telephone call from Jay Cristol, who wanted to interview me concerning the functioning of the Court of Inquiry. I told him that I would not speak to him on that subject and prepared to hang up the telephone. Cristol then began asking me about my personal background and other, non-Court of Inquiry related matters. I endeavored to answer these questions and politely extricate myself from the conversation. Cristol continued to return to the subject of the Court of Inquiry, which I refused to discuss with him. Finally, I suggested that he contact Admiral Kidd and ask him about the Court of Inquiry.
...
Several years later, I received a letter from Cristol that contained what he purported to be his notes of our prior conversation. These “notes” were grossly incorrect and bore no resemblance in reality to that discussion. I find it hard to believe that these “notes” were the product of a mistake, rather than an attempt to deceive. I informed Cristol that I disagreed with his recollection of our conversation and that he was wrong. Cristol made several attempts to arrange for the two of us to meet in person and talk but I always found ways to avoid doing this. I did not wish to meet with Cristol as we had nothing in common and I did not trust him.

Contrary to the misinformation presented by Cristol and others, it is important for the American people to know that it is clear that Israel is responsible for deliberately attacking an American ship and murdering American sailors, whose bereaved shipmates have lived with this egregious conclusion for many years.

Dated: January 9, 2004
at Coronado, California.
Ward Boston, Jr., Captain, JAGC, USN (Ret.)
Senior Counsel to the USS Liberty Court of Inquiry

Affidavit of Captain Ward Boston, USN, JAG (Ret.)

So Cristol is a liar. He presents himself as a "federal judge" but he is really a bankruptcy judge which is not confirmed by the US Senate but appointed by a circuit judge. He is just a government employee.

Your post said:

The NSA intercepts tapes had not yet been released in 2002.

The Chicago Tribune reports:

On its Web site, the NSA has posted three recordings of Israeli communications made on June 8, 1967. But none of the recordings is of the attack itself.
...
The three recordings reflect what the NSA describes as "the aftermath" of the attack -- Israeli communications with two Israeli helicopters dispatched to rescue any survivors who may have jumped into the water.

Two of the recordings were made by Michael Prostinak, a Hebrew linguist aboard a U.S. Navy EC-121, a lumbering propeller-driven aircraft specially equipped to gather electronic intelligence.

But Prostinak said he was certain that more than three recordings were made that day.

"I can tell you there were more tapes than just the three on the Internet," he said. "No doubt in my mind, more than three tapes."

At least one of the missing tapes, Prostinak said, captured Israeli communications "in which people were not just tranquil or taking care of business as normal. We knew that something was being attacked," Prostinak said. "Everyone we were listening to was excited. You know, it was an actual attack. And during the attack was when mention of the American flag was made."
...
After listening to the three recordings released by the NSA, Prostinak said it was clear from the sequence in which they were numbered that at least two tapes that had once existed were not there.

One tape, designated A1104/A-02, begins at 2:29 p.m. local time, just after the Liberty was hit by the torpedo. Prostinak said there was a preceding tape, A1104/A-01.

That tape likely would have recorded much of the attack, which began with the air assault at 1:56 p.m. Prostinak said a second tape, which preceded one beginning at 3:07 p.m., made by another linguist aboard the same plane, also appeared to be missing.

Furthermore, the Chicago Tribune reports:

"I don't think you'll find many people at NSA who believe it was accidental," Benson Buffham, a former deputy NSA director,

The US Naval Institute which your post on the Cristol book is not, despite its name, an official government organization in any way affiliated with the Navy or the Naval Academy. It is a private non-profit made of of retirees. United States Naval Institute - Wikipedia

Some sense of Cristol's skilled and deceptive manner of arguing can be gotten from this article of his, in which he criticizes Capt. Ward Boston:

First, a look at the article raises a question of whether it was written by Ward Boston or written by someone else for him. The first paragraph talks of the"bombing" of the ship. Boston was aware and the record is clear, the ship was not bombed. It was attacked with 30MM cannons by the aircraft and then by 20MM cannon, 50 caliber machine guns and torpedoes by the torpedo boats.

But the Chicago Tribune reports:

Twenty minutes later, after the Liberty had been hit repeatedly by machine guns, 30 mm cannon and napalm from the Israelis' French-built Mirage and Mystere fighter-bombers New revelations in attack on American spy ship

Napalm is commonly referred to as a "napalm bomb." So Cristol could be technically correct, if he means dropped explosive. But he makes no mention of the napalm bombs.

Cristol also writes:

The second paragraph says 34 American sailors died. In fact, 33 sailors and one NSA civilian died. Why You Shouldn't Pay Attention to the Claims that Israel Attacked the USS Liberty Deliberately | History News Network

That is enough to show that Cristol is a cover-up artist, making distinctions with no meaningful difference in order to appear to be scoring points.

In the same article Cristol writes:

The next paragraph is a repetition of the demand of various conspiracy theorists requesting a congressional hearing and suggesting the survivors be allowed to testify. One hundred and fifty four pages of sworn testimony of the Liberty’s Captain, William McGonagle, the ship’s officers and key crew members was taken on June 13 and June 14, 1967 and is available for review by any member of the public. Why You Shouldn't Pay Attention to the Claims that Israel Attacked the USS Liberty Deliberately | History News Network

But the very few crew members who were interviewed say they were only allowed to answer the questions that were posed, and not allowed to add anything else. For example, Lloyd Painter was stopped from describing an Israeli patrol boats circling the ship for 40 minutes and machine-gunning life rafts and crew members. In addition, Cristol says nothing about the gag order,

And a final example of one of Cristol's purported "gotchas":

And an even better question, if the Israelis intended to sink the Liberty, then why didn't the Israeli Armed Forces, which had destroyed the entire Egyptian Air Force in minutes, had destroyed thousands of Egyptian tanks and artillery in a few days, had captured the Sinai, the Suez Canal, the Old City of Jerusalem, the West Bank and a day later destroyed the Syrian army and its armor and captured the Golan Heights, all in six days, why didn’t they sink the ship, if that is what they intended? Why You Shouldn't Pay Attention to the Claims that Israel Attacked the USS Liberty Deliberately | History News Network

There is a simple answer to that question. The Liberty crew managed to get off an SOS signal to the Sixth Fleet, and US Phantoms were on the way, who would have blown the Israeli bastards out of the sky.

All this of course overlooks Cristol's liberal, snarling use of the words "conspiracy theorists" and "hidden agendas," of which only he is free and pure. To anyone used to the way shills write this alone would give him away in a few paragraphs.

I just gave you a detailed point by point rebuttal to your "research." None of which you have addressed. So what you mean is you aren't interested in the truth just in repeating yourself and name calling. That means you lose, but thanks for playing.

Still avoiding the facts? I have read all those reports. Obvious white washes.

- Israeli close recon for 9 hours throughout morning, two large flags flying in perfect breeze
- fresh painted US markings on hull
- recon planes on slow lazy passes, waved at US sailors in uniform
- state of art intelligence ship unmistakable for Egyptian horse transport
- radio traffic confirms before, during, and after attack that Israelis knew ship was American.
- even machine gunned lifeboats, a war crime, intending no survivors.
- an Israeli pilot refused to attack when he saw ship was American. Returned to base and arrested on landing.
- American emergency frequencies jammed on start of attack.

Why don't you listen to the men who were there instead of believing official "reports?"

Israeli recon pass, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

Israeli torpedo boat, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

The Day Israel Attacked America, survivors speak

 

[depotoo]

No, no avoidance from me. The avoidance comes from the one that refuses to look at all information.

You have not gone to the archives and listened to or read the transcripts and all other available info from the multiple investigations. You only hear what you want to hear. Even if you did, something tells me that still would not satisfy you, because of your hatred for Israel. Sadly, part of the fault for the accident rests on our shoulders.

I told you I researched it myself. They are all in the archives, for you, if you really want an informed decision. But I suspect you don’t. You are just an anti Semitic.

“The Liberty Incident Revealed is the complete and final story about the Israeli Air Force and Navy attack on the USS Liberty during the Six Day War in June 1967. Cutting through all of the controversy and conspiracy theories about Israel’s deadly attack, Cristol revises his well-regarded book about the event with an expanded and in-depth analysis of all of the sources, including the released tapes of the National Security Agency (NSA) intercepts.

When Cristol’s first book on the subject, The Liberty Incident, was published in 2002, there remained many unanswered questions about Israeli Air Force audio tapes. The NSA intercepts tapes had not yet been released in 2002. Some conspiracy theorists alleged the NSA tapes would prove that the Israeli attack was premeditated. Cristol’s successful Freedom of Information Act lawsuit against the NSA, while resulting in the release of those tapes, has been greeted by anti-Israel sources insisting that the NSA tapes are fraudulent and are part of a larger conspiracy to deceive the American public.

After a quarter of a century of intensive research in both Israel and the U.S., researching all relevant archives from NSA, CIA and the State Department, reviewing both formerly classified and open source documents, and interviewing all then-living individuals directly involved in the incident, the factual and documentary record is clear. Cristol maintains that despite the fact that all of the official records and transcripts are now available for review, the truth has proven to be of no interest to those individuals and organizations who are motivated by hidden agendas, wish to keep conspiracy theories alive, or are trying to feed sensational stories to the media. Documenting his findings in six new chapters, Cristol establishes definitively that the Israeli attack was a tragic mistake and presents a convincing argument that will be regarded as the final chapter in the long-simmering debate about this incident.”
The Liberty Incident Revealed | U.S. Naval Institute
.......
Besides this book, you can go to the archives and pull up all the audio tapes, etc. and listen to them yourself. Read all the reports, etc. I did that awhile back. The answer is it was an accident. Just others want to blame Israel any chance they can get. Now you can take the time to research and listen and read like I did, or you can choose to listen to the conspiracy theorists wishing to find a way to blame Israel, unjustly. That is totally up to you.

Are kidding you are quoting Cristol the man who presents himself as a "combat pilot" in the Korean War although he never got closer than the training base? Cristol is easily eviscerated.

Cristol claims to have interviewed people that he didn't, and cites testimony from anonymous crew members, he says, to prevent "friction" with their shipmates.

Your post said:

After a quarter of a century of intensive research in both Israel and the U.S., researching all relevant archives from NSA, CIA and the State Department, reviewing both formerly classified and open source documents, and interviewing all then-living individuals directly involved in the incident, the factual and documentary record is clear.

But Captain Ward Boston, legal counsel for the Naval Court of Inquiry who has come out for the Liberty survivors, writes in an affidavit:

In 1990, I received a telephone call from Jay Cristol, who wanted to interview me concerning the functioning of the Court of Inquiry. I told him that I would not speak to him on that subject and prepared to hang up the telephone. Cristol then began asking me about my personal background and other, non-Court of Inquiry related matters. I endeavored to answer these questions and politely extricate myself from the conversation. Cristol continued to return to the subject of the Court of Inquiry, which I refused to discuss with him. Finally, I suggested that he contact Admiral Kidd and ask him about the Court of Inquiry.
...
Several years later, I received a letter from Cristol that contained what he purported to be his notes of our prior conversation. These “notes” were grossly incorrect and bore no resemblance in reality to that discussion. I find it hard to believe that these “notes” were the product of a mistake, rather than an attempt to deceive. I informed Cristol that I disagreed with his recollection of our conversation and that he was wrong. Cristol made several attempts to arrange for the two of us to meet in person and talk but I always found ways to avoid doing this. I did not wish to meet with Cristol as we had nothing in common and I did not trust him.

Contrary to the misinformation presented by Cristol and others, it is important for the American people to know that it is clear that Israel is responsible for deliberately attacking an American ship and murdering American sailors, whose bereaved shipmates have lived with this egregious conclusion for many years.

Dated: January 9, 2004
at Coronado, California.
Ward Boston, Jr., Captain, JAGC, USN (Ret.)
Senior Counsel to the USS Liberty Court of Inquiry

Affidavit of Captain Ward Boston, USN, JAG (Ret.)

So Cristol is a liar. He presents himself as a "federal judge" but he is really a bankruptcy judge which is not confirmed by the US Senate but appointed by a circuit judge. He is just a government employee.

Your post said:

The NSA intercepts tapes had not yet been released in 2002.

The Chicago Tribune reports:

On its Web site, the NSA has posted three recordings of Israeli communications made on June 8, 1967. But none of the recordings is of the attack itself.
...
The three recordings reflect what the NSA describes as "the aftermath" of the attack -- Israeli communications with two Israeli helicopters dispatched to rescue any survivors who may have jumped into the water.

Two of the recordings were made by Michael Prostinak, a Hebrew linguist aboard a U.S. Navy EC-121, a lumbering propeller-driven aircraft specially equipped to gather electronic intelligence.

But Prostinak said he was certain that more than three recordings were made that day.

"I can tell you there were more tapes than just the three on the Internet," he said. "No doubt in my mind, more than three tapes."

At least one of the missing tapes, Prostinak said, captured Israeli communications "in which people were not just tranquil or taking care of business as normal. We knew that something was being attacked," Prostinak said. "Everyone we were listening to was excited. You know, it was an actual attack. And during the attack was when mention of the American flag was made."
...
After listening to the three recordings released by the NSA, Prostinak said it was clear from the sequence in which they were numbered that at least two tapes that had once existed were not there.

One tape, designated A1104/A-02, begins at 2:29 p.m. local time, just after the Liberty was hit by the torpedo. Prostinak said there was a preceding tape, A1104/A-01.

That tape likely would have recorded much of the attack, which began with the air assault at 1:56 p.m. Prostinak said a second tape, which preceded one beginning at 3:07 p.m., made by another linguist aboard the same plane, also appeared to be missing.

Furthermore, the Chicago Tribune reports:

"I don't think you'll find many people at NSA who believe it was accidental," Benson Buffham, a former deputy NSA director,

The US Naval Institute which your post on the Cristol book is not, despite its name, an official government organization in any way affiliated with the Navy or the Naval Academy. It is a private non-profit made of of retirees. United States Naval Institute - Wikipedia

Some sense of Cristol's skilled and deceptive manner of arguing can be gotten from this article of his, in which he criticizes Capt. Ward Boston:

First, a look at the article raises a question of whether it was written by Ward Boston or written by someone else for him. The first paragraph talks of the"bombing" of the ship. Boston was aware and the record is clear, the ship was not bombed. It was attacked with 30MM cannons by the aircraft and then by 20MM cannon, 50 caliber machine guns and torpedoes by the torpedo boats.

But the Chicago Tribune reports:

Twenty minutes later, after the Liberty had been hit repeatedly by machine guns, 30 mm cannon and napalm from the Israelis' French-built Mirage and Mystere fighter-bombers New revelations in attack on American spy ship

Napalm is commonly referred to as a "napalm bomb." So Cristol could be technically correct, if he means dropped explosive. But he makes no mention of the napalm bombs.

Cristol also writes:

The second paragraph says 34 American sailors died. In fact, 33 sailors and one NSA civilian died. Why You Shouldn't Pay Attention to the Claims that Israel Attacked the USS Liberty Deliberately | History News Network

That is enough to show that Cristol is a cover-up artist, making distinctions with no meaningful difference in order to appear to be scoring points.

In the same article Cristol writes:

The next paragraph is a repetition of the demand of various conspiracy theorists requesting a congressional hearing and suggesting the survivors be allowed to testify. One hundred and fifty four pages of sworn testimony of the Liberty’s Captain, William McGonagle, the ship’s officers and key crew members was taken on June 13 and June 14, 1967 and is available for review by any member of the public. Why You Shouldn't Pay Attention to the Claims that Israel Attacked the USS Liberty Deliberately | History News Network

But the very few crew members who were interviewed say they were only allowed to answer the questions that were posed, and not allowed to add anything else. For example, Lloyd Painter was stopped from describing an Israeli patrol boats circling the ship for 40 minutes and machine-gunning life rafts and crew members. In addition, Cristol says nothing about the gag order,

And a final example of one of Cristol's purported "gotchas":

And an even better question, if the Israelis intended to sink the Liberty, then why didn't the Israeli Armed Forces, which had destroyed the entire Egyptian Air Force in minutes, had destroyed thousands of Egyptian tanks and artillery in a few days, had captured the Sinai, the Suez Canal, the Old City of Jerusalem, the West Bank and a day later destroyed the Syrian army and its armor and captured the Golan Heights, all in six days, why didn’t they sink the ship, if that is what they intended?
Are kidding you are quoting Cristol the man who presents himself as a "combat pilot" in the Korean War although he never got closer than the training base? Cristol is easily eviscerated.

Cristol claims to have interviewed crew members when he didn't, and cites testimony from anonymous crew members, he says, to prevent "friction" with their shipmates.

Your post said:
But Captain Ward Boston, legal counsel for the Naval Court of Inquiry who has come out for the Liberty survivors, writes in an affidavit:

So Cristol is a liar. He presents himself as a "federal judge" but he is really a bankruptcy judge which is not confirmed by the US Senate but appointed by a circuit judge. He is just a government employee.

Your post said:

The Chicago Tribune reports:
Furthermore, the Chicago Tribune reports:
The US Naval Institute which your post on the Cristol book is not, despite its name, an official government organization in any way affiliated with the Navy or the Naval Academy. It is a private non-profit made of of retirees. United States Naval Institute - Wikipedia

Some sense of Cristol's skilled and deceptive manner of arguing can be gotten from this article of his, in which he criticizes Capt. Ward Boston:

But the Chicago Tribune reports:

Napalm is commonly referred to as a "napalm bomb." So Cristol could be technically correct, if he means dropped explosive. But he makes no mention of the napalm bombs.

Cristol also writes:

That is enough to show that Cristol is a cover-up artist, making distinctions with no meaningful difference in order to appear to be scoring points.

In the same article Cristol writes:

But the very few crew members who were interviewed say they were only allowed to answer the questions that were posed, and not allowed to add anything else. For example, Lloyd Painter was stopped from describing an Israeli patrol boats circling the ship for 40 minutes and machine-gunning life rafts and crew members. In addition, Cristol says nothing about the gag order,

And a final example of one of Cristol's purported "gotchas":

There is a simple answer to that question. The Liberty crew managed to get off an SOS signal to the Sixth Fleet, and US Phantoms were on the way, who would have blown the Israeli bastards out of the sky.

All this of course overlooks Cristol's liberal, snarling use of the words "conspiracy theorists" and "hidden agendas," of which only he is free and pure. To anyone used to the way shills write this alone would give him away in a few paragraphs.

I just gave you a detailed point by point rebuttal to your "research." None of which you have addressed. So what you mean is you aren't interested in the truth just in repeating yourself and name calling. That means you lose, but thanks for playing.

Still avoiding the facts?

- Israeli close recon for 9 hours throughout morning, two large flags flying in perfect breeze
- fresh painted US markings on hull
- recon planes on slow lazy passes, waved at US sailors in uniform
- state of art intelligence ship unmistakable for Egyptian horse transport
- radio traffic confirms before, during, and after attack that Israelis knew ship was American.
- even machine gunned lifeboats, a war crime, intending no survivors.

Israeli recon pass, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

The Day Israel Attacked America, survivors speak

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You have not gone to the archives and listened to or read the transcripts and all other available info from the multiple investigations. You only hear what you want to hear. Even if you did, something tells me that still would not satisfy you, because of your hatred for Israel. Sadly, part of the fault for the accident rests on our shoulders.

I told you I researched it myself. They are all in the archives, for you, if you really want an informed decision. But I suspect you don’t. You are just an anti Semitic.

“The Liberty Incident Revealed is the complete and final story about the Israeli Air Force and Navy attack on the USS Liberty during the Six Day War in June 1967. Cutting through all of the controversy and conspiracy theories about Israel’s deadly attack, Cristol revises his well-regarded book about the event with an expanded and in-depth analysis of all of the sources, including the released tapes of the National Security Agency (NSA) intercepts.

When Cristol’s first book on the subject, The Liberty Incident, was published in 2002, there remained many unanswered questions about Israeli Air Force audio tapes. The NSA intercepts tapes had not yet been released in 2002. Some conspiracy theorists alleged the NSA tapes would prove that the Israeli attack was premeditated. Cristol’s successful Freedom of Information Act lawsuit against the NSA, while resulting in the release of those tapes, has been greeted by anti-Israel sources insisting that the NSA tapes are fraudulent and are part of a larger conspiracy to deceive the American public.

After a quarter of a century of intensive research in both Israel and the U.S., researching all relevant archives from NSA, CIA and the State Department, reviewing both formerly classified and open source documents, and interviewing all then-living individuals directly involved in the incident, the factual and documentary record is clear. Cristol maintains that despite the fact that all of the official records and transcripts are now available for review, the truth has proven to be of no interest to those individuals and organizations who are motivated by hidden agendas, wish to keep conspiracy theories alive, or are trying to feed sensational stories to the media. Documenting his findings in six new chapters, Cristol establishes definitively that the Israeli attack was a tragic mistake and presents a convincing argument that will be regarded as the final chapter in the long-simmering debate about this incident.”
The Liberty Incident Revealed | U.S. Naval Institute
.......
Besides this book, you can go to the archives and pull up all the audio tapes, etc. and listen to them yourself. Read all the reports, etc. I did that awhile back. The answer is it was an accident. Just others want to blame Israel any chance they can get. Now you can take the time to research and listen and read like I did, or you can choose to listen to the conspiracy theorists wishing to find a way to blame Israel, unjustly. That is totally up to you.

Are kidding you are quoting Cristol the man who presents himself as a "combat pilot" in the Korean War although he never got closer than the training base? Cristol is easily eviscerated.

Cristol claims to have interviewed people that he didn't, and cites testimony from anonymous crew members, he says, to prevent "friction" with their shipmates.

Your post said:

After a quarter of a century of intensive research in both Israel and the U.S., researching all relevant archives from NSA, CIA and the State Department, reviewing both formerly classified and open source documents, and interviewing all then-living individuals directly involved in the incident, the factual and documentary record is clear.

But Captain Ward Boston, legal counsel for the Naval Court of Inquiry who has come out for the Liberty survivors, writes in an affidavit:

In 1990, I received a telephone call from Jay Cristol, who wanted to interview me concerning the functioning of the Court of Inquiry. I told him that I would not speak to him on that subject and prepared to hang up the telephone. Cristol then began asking me about my personal background and other, non-Court of Inquiry related matters. I endeavored to answer these questions and politely extricate myself from the conversation. Cristol continued to return to the subject of the Court of Inquiry, which I refused to discuss with him. Finally, I suggested that he contact Admiral Kidd and ask him about the Court of Inquiry.
...
Several years later, I received a letter from Cristol that contained what he purported to be his notes of our prior conversation. These “notes” were grossly incorrect and bore no resemblance in reality to that discussion. I find it hard to believe that these “notes” were the product of a mistake, rather than an attempt to deceive. I informed Cristol that I disagreed with his recollection of our conversation and that he was wrong. Cristol made several attempts to arrange for the two of us to meet in person and talk but I always found ways to avoid doing this. I did not wish to meet with Cristol as we had nothing in common and I did not trust him.

Contrary to the misinformation presented by Cristol and others, it is important for the American people to know that it is clear that Israel is responsible for deliberately attacking an American ship and murdering American sailors, whose bereaved shipmates have lived with this egregious conclusion for many years.

Dated: January 9, 2004
at Coronado, California.
Ward Boston, Jr., Captain, JAGC, USN (Ret.)
Senior Counsel to the USS Liberty Court of Inquiry

Affidavit of Captain Ward Boston, USN, JAG (Ret.)

So Cristol is a liar. He presents himself as a "federal judge" but he is really a bankruptcy judge which is not confirmed by the US Senate but appointed by a circuit judge. He is just a government employee.

Your post said:

The NSA intercepts tapes had not yet been released in 2002.

The Chicago Tribune reports:

On its Web site, the NSA has posted three recordings of Israeli communications made on June 8, 1967. But none of the recordings is of the attack itself.
...
The three recordings reflect what the NSA describes as "the aftermath" of the attack -- Israeli communications with two Israeli helicopters dispatched to rescue any survivors who may have jumped into the water.

Two of the recordings were made by Michael Prostinak, a Hebrew linguist aboard a U.S. Navy EC-121, a lumbering propeller-driven aircraft specially equipped to gather electronic intelligence.

But Prostinak said he was certain that more than three recordings were made that day.

"I can tell you there were more tapes than just the three on the Internet," he said. "No doubt in my mind, more than three tapes."

At least one of the missing tapes, Prostinak said, captured Israeli communications "in which people were not just tranquil or taking care of business as normal. We knew that something was being attacked," Prostinak said. "Everyone we were listening to was excited. You know, it was an actual attack. And during the attack was when mention of the American flag was made."
...
After listening to the three recordings released by the NSA, Prostinak said it was clear from the sequence in which they were numbered that at least two tapes that had once existed were not there.

One tape, designated A1104/A-02, begins at 2:29 p.m. local time, just after the Liberty was hit by the torpedo. Prostinak said there was a preceding tape, A1104/A-01.

That tape likely would have recorded much of the attack, which began with the air assault at 1:56 p.m. Prostinak said a second tape, which preceded one beginning at 3:07 p.m., made by another linguist aboard the same plane, also appeared to be missing.

Furthermore, the Chicago Tribune reports:

"I don't think you'll find many people at NSA who believe it was accidental," Benson Buffham, a former deputy NSA director,

The US Naval Institute which your post on the Cristol book is not, despite its name, an official government organization in any way affiliated with the Navy or the Naval Academy. It is a private non-profit made of of retirees. United States Naval Institute - Wikipedia

Some sense of Cristol's skilled and deceptive manner of arguing can be gotten from this article of his, in which he criticizes Capt. Ward Boston:

First, a look at the article raises a question of whether it was written by Ward Boston or written by someone else for him. The first paragraph talks of the"bombing" of the ship. Boston was aware and the record is clear, the ship was not bombed. It was attacked with 30MM cannons by the aircraft and then by 20MM cannon, 50 caliber machine guns and torpedoes by the torpedo boats.

But the Chicago Tribune reports:

Twenty minutes later, after the Liberty had been hit repeatedly by machine guns, 30 mm cannon and napalm from the Israelis' French-built Mirage and Mystere fighter-bombers New revelations in attack on American spy ship

Napalm is commonly referred to as a "napalm bomb." So Cristol could be technically correct, if he means dropped explosive. But he makes no mention of the napalm bombs.

Cristol also writes:

The second paragraph says 34 American sailors died. In fact, 33 sailors and one NSA civilian died. Why You Shouldn't Pay Attention to the Claims that Israel Attacked the USS Liberty Deliberately | History News Network

That is enough to show that Cristol is a cover-up artist, making distinctions with no meaningful difference in order to appear to be scoring points.

In the same article Cristol writes:

The next paragraph is a repetition of the demand of various conspiracy theorists requesting a congressional hearing and suggesting the survivors be allowed to testify. One hundred and fifty four pages of sworn testimony of the Liberty’s Captain, William McGonagle, the ship’s officers and key crew members was taken on June 13 and June 14, 1967 and is available for review by any member of the public. Why You Shouldn't Pay Attention to the Claims that Israel Attacked the USS Liberty Deliberately | History News Network

But the very few crew members who were interviewed say they were only allowed to answer the questions that were posed, and not allowed to add anything else. For example, Lloyd Painter was stopped from describing an Israeli patrol boats circling the ship for 40 minutes and machine-gunning life rafts and crew members. In addition, Cristol says nothing about the gag order,

And a final example of one of Cristol's purported "gotchas":

And an even better question, if the Israelis intended to sink the Liberty, then why didn't the Israeli Armed Forces, which had destroyed the entire Egyptian Air Force in minutes, had destroyed thousands of Egyptian tanks and artillery in a few days, had captured the Sinai, the Suez Canal, the Old City of Jerusalem, the West Bank and a day later destroyed the Syrian army and its armor and captured the Golan Heights, all in six days, why didn’t they sink the ship, if that is what they intended?
Are kidding you are quoting Cristol the man who presents himself as a "combat pilot" in the Korean War although he never got closer than the training base? Cristol is easily eviscerated.

Cristol claims to have interviewed crew members when he didn't, and cites testimony from anonymous crew members, he says, to prevent "friction" with their shipmates.

Your post said:
But Captain Ward Boston, legal counsel for the Naval Court of Inquiry who has come out for the Liberty survivors, writes in an affidavit:

So Cristol is a liar. He presents himself as a "federal judge" but he is really a bankruptcy judge which is not confirmed by the US Senate but appointed by a circuit judge. He is just a government employee.

Your post said:

The Chicago Tribune reports:
Furthermore, the Chicago Tribune reports:
The US Naval Institute which your post on the Cristol book is not, despite its name, an official government organization in any way affiliated with the Navy or the Naval Academy. It is a private non-profit made of of retirees. United States Naval Institute - Wikipedia

Some sense of Cristol's skilled and deceptive manner of arguing can be gotten from this article of his, in which he criticizes Capt. Ward Boston:

But the Chicago Tribune reports:

Napalm is commonly referred to as a "napalm bomb." So Cristol could be technically correct, if he means dropped explosive. But he makes no mention of the napalm bombs.

Cristol also writes:

That is enough to show that Cristol is a cover-up artist, making distinctions with no meaningful difference in order to appear to be scoring points.

In the same article Cristol writes:

But the very few crew members who were interviewed say they were only allowed to answer the questions that were posed, and not allowed to add anything else. For example, Lloyd Painter was stopped from describing an Israeli patrol boats circling the ship for 40 minutes and machine-gunning life rafts and crew members. In addition, Cristol says nothing about the gag order,

And a final example of one of Cristol's purported "gotchas":

There is a simple answer to that question. The Liberty crew managed to get off an SOS signal to the Sixth Fleet, and US Phantoms were on the way, who would have blown the Israeli bastards out of the sky.

All this of course overlooks Cristol's liberal, snarling use of the words "conspiracy theorists" and "hidden agendas," of which only he is free and pure. To anyone used to the way shills write this alone would give him away in a few paragraphs.

I just gave you a detailed point by point rebuttal to your "research." None of which you have addressed. So what you mean is you aren't interested in the truth just in repeating yourself and name calling. That means you lose, but thanks for playing.

Still avoiding the facts?

- Israeli close recon for 9 hours throughout morning, two large flags flying in perfect breeze
- fresh painted US markings on hull
- recon planes on slow lazy passes, waved at US sailors in uniform
- state of art intelligence ship unmistakable for Egyptian horse transport
- radio traffic confirms before, during, and after attack that Israelis knew ship was American.
- even machine gunned lifeboats, a war crime, intending no survivors.

Israeli recon pass, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

Israeli torpedo boat, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

The Day Israel Attacked America, survivors speak

OK, I have a question for you. You mention freshly painted US hull markings. Can you tell me what markings on a ship's hull identify the nationality of the vessel. I was a naval officer for many years, and I can tell you there is no such thing.

If that is an example of your evidence, you are barking up the wrong tree.

 

[depotoo]

JAG Manual Investigations | U.S. Navy JAG Corps
http://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/uss_liberty_photos/Liberty_photos_all.pdf
U.S.S. Liberty

Senate Committee on Foreign Relations
1967
Secretary of Defense McNamara testified he supported conclusion that the attack was not intentional.
Senate Armed Services Committee
Feb. 1, 1968
No conclusion. Secretary McNamara makes comparison of attack on Liberty to that on Pueblo with regard to uncertainty about what was happening at the time of the incident.

House Appropriations Committee
April-May 1968
Navy communications "foulup" and no conclusion regarding Israeli actions. Much of report remains classified.
House Armed Services Committee
May 10, 1971
Critical of Navy communications, no conclusion regarding Israeli actions.
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
1979
Responding to critical book by Liberty crewman James Ennes, Senate investigation found no merit to his claim attack was intentional.
National Security Agency
1981
Liberty was mistaken for an Egyptian ship as a result of miscalculations and egregious errors.
House Armed Services Committee
June 1991
Responding to request from Liberty Veterans Association, Subcommitte on Investigations launched probe that concluded there was no evidence to support allegations made by the Association and no reason for further investigation.

 

[munkle]

You have not gone to the archives and listened to or read the transcripts and all other available info from the multiple investigations. You only hear what you want to hear. Even if you did, something tells me that still would not satisfy you, because of your hatred for Israel. Sadly, part of the fault for the accident rests on our shoulders.

I told you I researched it myself. They are all in the archives, for you, if you really want an informed decision. But I suspect you don’t. You are just an anti Semitic.

Are kidding you are quoting Cristol the man who presents himself as a "combat pilot" in the Korean War although he never got closer than the training base? Cristol is easily eviscerated.

Cristol claims to have interviewed people that he didn't, and cites testimony from anonymous crew members, he says, to prevent "friction" with their shipmates.

Your post said:
But Captain Ward Boston, legal counsel for the Naval Court of Inquiry who has come out for the Liberty survivors, writes in an affidavit:

So Cristol is a liar. He presents himself as a "federal judge" but he is really a bankruptcy judge which is not confirmed by the US Senate but appointed by a circuit judge. He is just a government employee.

Your post said:

The Chicago Tribune reports:
Furthermore, the Chicago Tribune reports:
The US Naval Institute which your post on the Cristol book is not, despite its name, an official government organization in any way affiliated with the Navy or the Naval Academy. It is a private non-profit made of of retirees. United States Naval Institute - Wikipedia

Some sense of Cristol's skilled and deceptive manner of arguing can be gotten from this article of his, in which he criticizes Capt. Ward Boston:

But the Chicago Tribune reports:

Napalm is commonly referred to as a "napalm bomb." So Cristol could be technically correct, if he means dropped explosive. But he makes no mention of the napalm bombs.

Cristol also writes:

That is enough to show that Cristol is a cover-up artist, making distinctions with no meaningful difference in order to appear to be scoring points.

In the same article Cristol writes:

But the very few crew members who were interviewed say they were only allowed to answer the questions that were posed, and not allowed to add anything else. For example, Lloyd Painter was stopped from describing an Israeli patrol boats circling the ship for 40 minutes and machine-gunning life rafts and crew members. In addition, Cristol says nothing about the gag order,

And a final example of one of Cristol's purported "gotchas":

I just gave you a detailed point by point rebuttal to your "research." None of which you have addressed. So what you mean is you aren't interested in the truth just in repeating yourself and name calling. That means you lose, but thanks for playing.

Still avoiding the facts?

- Israeli close recon for 9 hours throughout morning, two large flags flying in perfect breeze
- fresh painted US markings on hull
- recon planes on slow lazy passes, waved at US sailors in uniform
- state of art intelligence ship unmistakable for Egyptian horse transport
- radio traffic confirms before, during, and after attack that Israelis knew ship was American.
- even machine gunned lifeboats, a war crime, intending no survivors.

Israeli recon pass, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

Israeli torpedo boat, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

The Day Israel Attacked America, survivors speak

OK, I have a question for you. You mention freshly painted US hull markings. Can you tell me what markings on a ship's hull identify the nationality of the vessel. I was a naval officer for many years, and I can tell you there is no such thing.

If that is an example of your evidence, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Egyptian ship markings were in Arabic. Also you are conveniently skipping over the matter of two US flags, ,flying in a perfect breeze, with Israeli propeller recon craft circling all morning, close enough to wave at the sailors. Are a US naval officer? For shame, sir, for not supporting your men.

 

[depotoo]

For shame you not getting all the details.

You have not gone to the archives and listened to or read the transcripts and all other available info from the multiple investigations. You only hear what you want to hear. Even if you did, something tells me that still would not satisfy you, because of your hatred for Israel. Sadly, part of the fault for the accident rests on our shoulders.

I told you I researched it myself. They are all in the archives, for you, if you really want an informed decision. But I suspect you don’t. You are just an anti Semitic.

I just gave you a detailed point by point rebuttal to your "research." None of which you have addressed. So what you mean is you aren't interested in the truth just in repeating yourself and name calling. That means you lose, but thanks for playing.

Still avoiding the facts?

- Israeli close recon for 9 hours throughout morning, two large flags flying in perfect breeze
- fresh painted US markings on hull
- recon planes on slow lazy passes, waved at US sailors in uniform
- state of art intelligence ship unmistakable for Egyptian horse transport
- radio traffic confirms before, during, and after attack that Israelis knew ship was American.
- even machine gunned lifeboats, a war crime, intending no survivors.

Israeli recon pass, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

Israeli torpedo boat, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

The Day Israel Attacked America, survivors speak

OK, I have a question for you. You mention freshly painted US hull markings. Can you tell me what markings on a ship's hull identify the nationality of the vessel. I was a naval officer for many years, and I can tell you there is no such thing.

If that is an example of your evidence, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Egyptian ship markings were in Arabic. Also you are conveniently skipping over the matter of two US flags, ,flying in a perfect breeze, with Israeli propeller recon craft circling all morning. Are a US naval officer? For shame, sir, for not supporting your men.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You have not gone to the archives and listened to or read the transcripts and all other available info from the multiple investigations. You only hear what you want to hear. Even if you did, something tells me that still would not satisfy you, because of your hatred for Israel. Sadly, part of the fault for the accident rests on our shoulders.

I told you I researched it myself. They are all in the archives, for you, if you really want an informed decision. But I suspect you don’t. You are just an anti Semitic.

I just gave you a detailed point by point rebuttal to your "research." None of which you have addressed. So what you mean is you aren't interested in the truth just in repeating yourself and name calling. That means you lose, but thanks for playing.

Still avoiding the facts?

- Israeli close recon for 9 hours throughout morning, two large flags flying in perfect breeze
- fresh painted US markings on hull
- recon planes on slow lazy passes, waved at US sailors in uniform
- state of art intelligence ship unmistakable for Egyptian horse transport
- radio traffic confirms before, during, and after attack that Israelis knew ship was American.
- even machine gunned lifeboats, a war crime, intending no survivors.

Israeli recon pass, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

Israeli torpedo boat, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

The Day Israel Attacked America, survivors speak

OK, I have a question for you. You mention freshly painted US hull markings. Can you tell me what markings on a ship's hull identify the nationality of the vessel. I was a naval officer for many years, and I can tell you there is no such thing.

If that is an example of your evidence, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Egyptian ship markings were in Arabic. Also you are conveniently skipping over the matter of two US flags, ,flying in a perfect breeze, with Israeli propeller recon craft circling all morning, close enough to wave at the sailors. Are a US naval officer? For shame, sir, for not supporting your men. By the way USS stands for United States Ship, so it does state nationality, and I doubt your claim to be US Navy.

That recon aircraft was not armed nor participated in the attack. Also, do you understand the meaning of a "false flag" attack? Watch a few good pirate movies if you don't know.

Numbers in Arabic are what we use, dumbass! They use numbers in Arabic are what we use, dumbass! Did you ever learn that the numbers at the top of your keyboard are Hindu-Arabic in origin and were first used in the 1st to 4th century CE?

Also, the letters "USS" do not appear anywhere on a ship, you moron!

That recon aircraft was not armed nor participated in the attack. Also, do you understand the meaning of a "false flag" attack? Watch a few good pirate movies if you don't know.

As to my not being what I claim, fuck you and the horse you rode in on! I have forgotten more about our Navy than you will ever know!

 

[depotoo]

Liberty was required to “ACKNOWLEDGE.” [US Naval Court of Inquiry/Document 9 of Exhibit 48: DTG 062349Z June 1967.]
Two points of interest: Liberty was instructed to copy (listen to) the fleet broadcast from NCS Morocco when she earlier had reported she would commence copying the fleet broadcast from NCS Amara at 070001Z. [
] The other concerns the question if Liberty ever received this message. Inthe investigations which followed the attacks, NCS Asmara would show that this


US Naval Court of Inquiry/Document 54 of Exhibit 48: DTG 021330Z
June 1967, USS Liberty to AIG 240.
message was placed on the fleet broadcast at 070529Z June. [However there was no other
record produced which demonstrated delivery, including statements from Liberty’s Captain. [JCS
Fact Finding Team Report, June 1967.]

 

[depotoo]

0149 2349 1949
The JCS became more concerned about the safety of the Liberty. [House Armed Services Committee Report, May 10, 1971.]
0150 2350 1950
Secure telephone call from JCS duty officer, Major D. C. Breedlove, to CINCUSNAVEUR duty officer, Lieutenant E. L. Galavotti, who verbally ordered Liberty to be withdrawn to no closer than 100 miles. Breedlove did not have the DTG for the new instructions, but stated a written message would follow. [House Armed Services Committee Report, May 10, 1971.] Captain M. J. Hanley, Deputy Chief of Staff, CINCUSNAVEUR, requested issuance of the written message, i.e., the DTG. [US Naval Court of Inquiry: Exhibit 47.] If Navy Captain Hanley had taken the oral order of a Major, the Liberty tragedy might never have occurred. It must however be noted that this phone call order was not in accord with several established procedures. [US Naval Court

 

[depotoo]

0525 0325 2325
Message 080110Z contents relayed by telephone from USCINCEUR in Stuttgart, Germany to CINCUSNAVEUR, London, with instructions to “take for action.” [House Armed Services Committee Report, May 10, 1971.]
0545 0345 2345
A garbled voice message from the IAF Nord 2501 maritime patrol received. [IDF History Department.]
0550 0350 2350
Following clarification, Israeli Navy HQ at Haifa receives a report that the Nord 2501 radioed "probably a destroyer is sailing in the direction of Gaza, course 120." [Israeli Navy HQ War Log.] The ship was designated “Skunk-C” (unidentified), placed on the control table, and marked red. Message 080110Z transmitted by Army Communications Center, Pentagon to Liberty and COMSIXTHFLT as information addressees. Liberty’s copy is mis-routed to the Pacific. [House Armed Services Committee Report, May 10, 1971.]

 

[munkle]

You have not gone to the archives and listened to or read the transcripts and all other available info from the multiple investigations. You only hear what you want to hear. Even if you did, something tells me that still would not satisfy you, because of your hatred for Israel. Sadly, part of the fault for the accident rests on our shoulders.

I just gave you a detailed point by point rebuttal to your "research." None of which you have addressed. So what you mean is you aren't interested in the truth just in repeating yourself and name calling. That means you lose, but thanks for playing.

Still avoiding the facts?

- Israeli close recon for 9 hours throughout morning, two large flags flying in perfect breeze
- fresh painted US markings on hull
- recon planes on slow lazy passes, waved at US sailors in uniform
- state of art intelligence ship unmistakable for Egyptian horse transport
- radio traffic confirms before, during, and after attack that Israelis knew ship was American.
- even machine gunned lifeboats, a war crime, intending no survivors.

Israeli recon pass, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

Israeli torpedo boat, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

The Day Israel Attacked America, survivors speak

OK, I have a question for you. You mention freshly painted US hull markings. Can you tell me what markings on a ship's hull identify the nationality of the vessel. I was a naval officer for many years, and I can tell you there is no such thing.

If that is an example of your evidence, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Egyptian ship markings were in Arabic. Also you are conveniently skipping over the matter of two US flags, ,flying in a perfect breeze, with Israeli propeller recon craft circling all morning, close enough to wave at the sailors. Are a US naval officer? For shame, sir, for not supporting your men. By the way USS stands for United States Ship, so it does state nationality, and I doubt your claim to be US Navy.

That recon aircraft was not armed nor participated in the attack. Also, do you understand the meaning of a "false flag" attack? Watch a few good pirate movies if you don't know.

Numbers in Arabic are what we use, dumbass! They use numbers in Arabic are what we use, dumbass! Did you ever learn that the numbers at the top of your keyboard are Hindu-Arabic in origin and were first used in the 1st to 4th century CE?

Also, the letters "USS" do not appear anywhere on a ship, you moron!

That recon aircraft was not armed nor participated in the attack. Also, do you understand the meaning of a "false flag" attack? Watch a few good pirate movies if you don't know.

As to my not being what I claim, fuck you and the horse you rode in on! I have forgotten more about our Navy than you will ever know!

Still not seeing those American flags eh? Ship identification much? What difference does it make if the recon planes participated in the attack? Before I only suspected you are stupid now you have removed all doubt, you should have kept your mouth shut. Anyone who poses as a Navy officer with an avatar of John Wayne is a fraud.

The Israelis reconned the ship extensively for 9 hours, slow and close on a cloudless day. Israeli commanders knew it was American. Every bit of evidence supports it and it's you versus an Admiral and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Thomas Moorer. Yea guess I'll believe the anonymous John Wayne wannabe on a message board LOL.

EDIT USS Liberty was stenciled on the stern. The Israeli Attack on the USS Liberty -- Paul Craig Roberts - PaulCraigRoberts.org

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You have not gone to the archives and listened to or read the transcripts and all other available info from the multiple investigations. You only hear what you want to hear. Even if you did, something tells me that still would not satisfy you, because of your hatred for Israel. Sadly, part of the fault for the accident rests on our shoulders.

Still avoiding the facts?

- Israeli close recon for 9 hours throughout morning, two large flags flying in perfect breeze
- fresh painted US markings on hull
- recon planes on slow lazy passes, waved at US sailors in uniform
- state of art intelligence ship unmistakable for Egyptian horse transport
- radio traffic confirms before, during, and after attack that Israelis knew ship was American.
- even machine gunned lifeboats, a war crime, intending no survivors.

Israeli recon pass, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

Israeli torpedo boat, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

The Day Israel Attacked America, survivors speak

OK, I have a question for you. You mention freshly painted US hull markings. Can you tell me what markings on a ship's hull identify the nationality of the vessel. I was a naval officer for many years, and I can tell you there is no such thing.

If that is an example of your evidence, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Egyptian ship markings were in Arabic. Also you are conveniently skipping over the matter of two US flags, ,flying in a perfect breeze, with Israeli propeller recon craft circling all morning, close enough to wave at the sailors. Are a US naval officer? For shame, sir, for not supporting your men. By the way USS stands for United States Ship, so it does state nationality, and I doubt your claim to be US Navy.

That recon aircraft was not armed nor participated in the attack. Also, do you understand the meaning of a "false flag" attack? Watch a few good pirate movies if you don't know.

Numbers in Arabic are what we use, dumbass! They use numbers in Arabic are what we use, dumbass! Did you ever learn that the numbers at the top of your keyboard are Hindu-Arabic in origin and were first used in the 1st to 4th century CE?

Also, the letters "USS" do not appear anywhere on a ship, you moron!

That recon aircraft was not armed nor participated in the attack. Also, do you understand the meaning of a "false flag" attack? Watch a few good pirate movies if you don't know.

As to my not being what I claim, fuck you and the horse you rode in on! I have forgotten more about our Navy than you will ever know!

Still not seeing those American flags eh? Ship identification much? What difference does it make if the recon planes participated in the attack? Before I only suspected you are stupid now you have removed all doubt, you should have kept your mouth shut. Anyone who poses as a Navy officer with an avatar of John Wayne is a fraud.

The Israelis reconned the ship extensively for 9 hours, slow and close on a cloudless day. Israeli commanders knew it was American. Every bit of evidence supports it and it's you versus an Admiral and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Thomas Moorer. Yea guess I'll believe the anonymous John Wayne wannabe on a message board LOL

Why is it that you cannot back up your assertion with facts. I did state several facts that contradict your alleged storyline, but you are apparently so fixated on your apparent anti-Semitic hatred that you see nothing else. Prove me wrong, dumbass!

BTW, have you ever met Admiral Moorer? I have and he was batshit crazy!

 

[depotoo]

Liberty records reaching Point Alpha, position 31.27.2N, 34-00E, and changing to course 253o True. [US Naval Court of Inquiry/Exhibit 27: Chronology of Events.] Liberty has reached what was to be the eastern-most point of her patrol area and has turned westward to start her patrol. Liberty is not aware that her eastern-most point of patrol is 60 nautical miles further west to 33- 00E (Op Area 2) because message 072104Z June 1967 was not received. (See time line at 2304 Sinai Time, June 7, 1967.)
0850 0650 0250
Liberty records being orbited by two delta-wing jets. No identification is possible due to altitude and distance from ship.[ nd
]
0900 0700 0300
Israeli Navy Chief, Admiral Erell, is advised of the “Skunk-C” 0603 identification during a break in action with a suspected Egyptian submarine west of Atlit. He orders it marked green (neutral.) [IDF History Department.]
IAF Regional Control 501 receives a pilot’s report that a ship spotted some 20 miles north of El Arish had fired on him as he was returning from the Sinai. As a result Israeli destroyers INS Jaffa(D-42) and Eilat(D-40) were ordered south to investigate. [IDF History Department.] Note: The Israeli Navy HQ War Log differs from the IDF History. The HQ War Log shows that two destroyers were ordered south at 0606 or 0608. This appears to be an error in either the original text or in translation. (See 0940 entry.)
Liberty position 31.27N, 33.54E. [US Naval Court of Inquiry/Exhibit 19: USS Liberty DRT Log, 8 June 1967.]
0905 0705 0305
Liberty reduces speed to five (5) knots. [USS Liberty Deck Log, 8 June 1967.]
0911 0711 0311
Fourth standoff message, 080625Z, transmitted by USCINCEUR. [House Armed Services Committee Report, May 10, 1971.]
0930 0730 0330
Liberty makes visual sighting on minaret at El Arish. [US Naval Court of Inquiry/Record of Proceedings, p. 32; USS Liberty Deck Log, 8 June 1967.]
0935 0735 0335
Fourth standoff message, 080625Z, received at CINCUSNAVEUR and COMSIXTHFLT. [House Armed Services Committee Report, May 10, 1971.]
Note: The House report refers to this message, 080625Z, as being received on June 7th and then goes on to refer to the information copy for Liberty being delayed 11 and 1/2 hours and going on the fleet broadcast for Liberty on June 8th at 1646Z. This must be a typographical error of 7th for 8th of June. It is not possible that a message sent on June 8th would arrive on June 7th.
0940 0740 0340
As a result of a more complete debriefing from the pilot making the 0900 sighting there is no certainly that he was fired upon by the ship. The description of the vessel is reported as “colored grey-blue, very wide and the bridge is in the middle.” Both Israeli destroyers are ordered to return to their patrol sectors. [IDF History Department/Navy HQ War Log.]
US Naval Court of Inquiry/Exhibit 27: Chronology of Events a
Document 88 of Exhibit 48: DTG 080742Z June 1967.
The Liberty Incident Time Line Page 17 of 56
0942 0742 0342
Liberty reports 0850 sighting of two delta wing jets to multiple addressees, including COMSIXTHFLT. [US Naval Court of Inquiry/Document 88 of Exhibit 48: DTG 080742Z June 1967.]
1000 0800 0400
Liberty position 31-27N, 33-51E. [US Naval Court of Inquiry/Exhibit 19: USS Liberty DRT Log, 8 June 1967.]
1055 0855 0455
Following a detailed debriefing of the navy observer on the returned Nord 2501 maritime patrol craft, Navy HQ is informed the ship spotted earlier is the USS Liberty(AGTR-5). [IDF Preliminary Judicial Inquiry, 21 July 1967.]
1056 0856 0456
Liberty records “ANOTHER A/C CIRCLED SHIP-HIGH.” [US Naval Court of Inquiry/Exhibit 27: Chronology of Events.] Commander McGonagle specific testimony was:
“At about 1056 in the morning of 8 June, an aircraft similar to an American flying boxcar crossed astern of the ship at a distance of about three to five miles. The plane circled the ship around the starboard side, proceeded forward of the ship and headed back toward the Sinai peninsula. A locating three report was submitted. It is not known if this report was transmitted. This aircraft continued to return in a somewhat similar fashion approximately at 30 minute intervals. It was not possible to see any markings on the aircraft and the identity of this aircraft remains unknown. This aircraft did not approach the ship in any provocative manner. It made no attempt to signal the ship. The ship made no attempt to signal the aircraft.”
[US Naval Court of Inquiry/Record of Proceedings, pp. 32-33.]
Liberty reports to Naval Security Station Command that she has destroyed all superseded May publications and other superseded material “daily due to current situation.” [JCS Fact Finding Team Report, June 1967: DTG 080856Z June 1967.]
1100 0900 0500
Commander Lunz, the operations command duty officer at Israeli Navy HQ gives the order to remove the green-marked wedge from CCC control table at Stella Maris. He is unaware of any additional sightings from the original position report, now some five hours old. [IDF History Department.]
Liberty position is 31-24N, 33-41E. [US Naval Court of Inquiry/Exhibit 19: USS Liberty DRT Log, 8 June 1967.]
1117 0917 0517
Fifth standoff message, from COMSIXTHFLT to Liberty, directing her not to approach closer that 100 miles to Egypt, Israel, Syria, or Lebanon and requesting acknowledgment is created. This Secret, Immediate-level message is not transmitted until 1235 and not received by Liberty prior to the attack. [US Naval Court of Inquiry/Exhibit 4: DTG 080917Z June 1967.]

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I just reviewed some sources and this resolution was passed in August 2018, so what has happened in 5 months since?

 

[munkle]

I just reviewed some sources and this resolution was passed in August 2018, so what has happened in 5 months since?

I dunno. Go to their Facebook. They'll talk to anyone. Ernie's in charge now. USS Liberty Facebook

 

[depotoo]

1991
25 June
Based on a request from the USS Liberty Veterans Association, the House Sub-Committee on Investigations of the Armed Services Committee chairman, and staff, commence an investigation of the Liberty incident. [
]
1992
29 April
The investigating staff of the House Sub-committee on Investigations of the Armed Services Committee conclude that there’s no basis to believe that the Liberty was attacked by the IDF knowing the ship was American. The chairman so notifies the Liberty Veterans Association. [
]
1995

 

[depotoo]

Anyone wanting to read it, here is the link-
http://www.thelibertyincident.com/docs/timeline.pdf

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I just reviewed some sources and this resolution was passed in August 2018, so what has happened in 5 months since?

I dunno. Go to their Facebook. They'll talk to anyone. Ernie's in charge now. USS Liberty Facebook

You don't know and just don't care! Got it! I am a member of the American Legion and I can tell you exactly what has happened. Nada!

By the way, when are you getting rid of that photoshopped avatar? It allows people to prejudge that you are a dumbass!

 

[Harpy Eagle]

No, no avoidance from me. The avoidance comes from the one that refuses to look at all information.

You have not gone to the archives and listened to or read the transcripts and all other available info from the multiple investigations. You only hear what you want to hear. Even if you did, something tells me that still would not satisfy you, because of your hatred for Israel. Sadly, part of the fault for the accident rests on our shoulders.

I told you I researched it myself. They are all in the archives, for you, if you really want an informed decision. But I suspect you don’t. You are just an anti Semitic.

Are kidding you are quoting Cristol the man who presents himself as a "combat pilot" in the Korean War although he never got closer than the training base? Cristol is easily eviscerated.

Cristol claims to have interviewed people that he didn't, and cites testimony from anonymous crew members, he says, to prevent "friction" with their shipmates.

Your post said:
But Captain Ward Boston, legal counsel for the Naval Court of Inquiry who has come out for the Liberty survivors, writes in an affidavit:

So Cristol is a liar. He presents himself as a "federal judge" but he is really a bankruptcy judge which is not confirmed by the US Senate but appointed by a circuit judge. He is just a government employee.

Your post said:

The Chicago Tribune reports:
Furthermore, the Chicago Tribune reports:
The US Naval Institute which your post on the Cristol book is not, despite its name, an official government organization in any way affiliated with the Navy or the Naval Academy. It is a private non-profit made of of retirees. United States Naval Institute - Wikipedia

Some sense of Cristol's skilled and deceptive manner of arguing can be gotten from this article of his, in which he criticizes Capt. Ward Boston:

But the Chicago Tribune reports:

Napalm is commonly referred to as a "napalm bomb." So Cristol could be technically correct, if he means dropped explosive. But he makes no mention of the napalm bombs.

Cristol also writes:

That is enough to show that Cristol is a cover-up artist, making distinctions with no meaningful difference in order to appear to be scoring points.

In the same article Cristol writes:

But the very few crew members who were interviewed say they were only allowed to answer the questions that were posed, and not allowed to add anything else. For example, Lloyd Painter was stopped from describing an Israeli patrol boats circling the ship for 40 minutes and machine-gunning life rafts and crew members. In addition, Cristol says nothing about the gag order,

And a final example of one of Cristol's purported "gotchas":

I just gave you a detailed point by point rebuttal to your "research." None of which you have addressed. So what you mean is you aren't interested in the truth just in repeating yourself and name calling. That means you lose, but thanks for playing.

Still avoiding the facts?

- Israeli close recon for 9 hours throughout morning, two large flags flying in perfect breeze
- fresh painted US markings on hull
- recon planes on slow lazy passes, waved at US sailors in uniform
- state of art intelligence ship unmistakable for Egyptian horse transport
- radio traffic confirms before, during, and after attack that Israelis knew ship was American.
- even machine gunned lifeboats, a war crime, intending no survivors.

Israeli recon pass, source: Survivor's website: http://www.ussliberty.org/00/0044.htm

The Day Israel Attacked America, survivors speak

Why do you dismiss what the actual survivors have to say?

Is your love for Israel that much greater than for your own service members?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I just reviewed some sources and this resolution was passed in August 2018, so what has happened in 5 months since?

I dunno. Go to their Facebook. They'll talk to anyone. Ernie's in charge now. USS Liberty Facebook

You don't know and just don't care! Got it! I am a member of the American Legion and I can tell you exactly what has happened. Nada!

By the way, when are you getting rid of that photoshopped avatar? It allows people to prejudge that you are a dumbass!

I am a member of the American Legion and I can tell you exactly what is happening, you do not know what the fuck you are talking about and are just covering up for your government.