“America was founded as an Atheist and Christian Nation” 21st Century sin & salvation Christian agrees with Unitarian Deist John Adams.

james bond

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. And spouting lies. Not very ethical of you.
Point out one single lie from me. Don’t run away before you do? If you cant find anything go ahead and run.
"America was founded as an Atheist and Christian Nation."

The founding fathers didn't discuss separation of church and state. They came from diverse religious backgrounds and were for religious freedoms. None claimed to be atheist as they were detested. Despite their religious differences. many US history scholars agree that some founding fathers were orthodox Christians and that the founding fathers that were not Christians were influenced by Christianity in a culture where publicly being a Christian was normal. The idea of Christian Nation was held by some fundamentalist Christians that the US was founded as a Christian Nation. However, the fathers believed God was active in earthly affairs and that religion was essentially important to society because it brought morality. They didn't want an official religion for their new country, but supported religion in their public and political life.

Thus, the majority of conservatives generally do not believe in the US being founded as a Christian Nation. They believe the US has a Christian heritage, but wasn't founded as a Christian Nation like the fundamentalist minority advocate. That's where you are getting your mythical claim and lie.
 

Correll

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. And spouting lies. Not very ethical of you.
Point out one single lie from me. Don’t run away before you do? If you cant find anything go ahead and run.
Several of us have already proven some of your lies, and you just keep repeating them. We don't have to run away... because we've already proven you wrong multiple time. You just sit there with your hands over your ears going "la la la la I can't hear you".

If anything, you are the one mentally running away, while still running your mouth.

He is just stonewalling. Standard lib tactic when they have lost a debate. The idea is that if he keeps saying enough, loud enough and often enough that he can create an element of doubt in some readers who are not smart enough or engaged enough to realize what he is saying doesn't make any sense,


and thus, keep gathering support for his lefty agenda, even though he can't defend his position on it's merits.
 

Correll

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. And spouting lies. Not very ethical of you.
Point out one single lie from me. Don’t run away before you do? If you cant find anything go ahead and run.
"America was founded as an Atheist and Christian Nation."

The founding fathers didn't discuss separation of church and state. They came from diverse religious backgrounds and were for religious freedoms. None claimed to be atheist as they were detested. Despite their religious differences. many US history scholars agree that some founding fathers were orthodox Christians and that the founding fathers that were not Christians were influenced by Christianity in a culture where publicly being a Christian was normal. The idea of Christian Nation was held by some fundamentalist Christians that the US was founded as a Christian Nation. However, the fathers believed God was active in earthly affairs and that religion was essentially important to society because it brought morality. They didn't want an official religion for their new country, but supported religion in their public and political life.

Thus, the majority of conservatives generally do not believe in the US being founded as a Christian Nation. They believe the US has a Christian heritage, but wasn't founded as a Christian Nation like the fundamentalist minority advocate. That's where you are getting your mythical claim and lie.

It is a minor sematic distinction. Is a nation defined by the vast majority of it's citizens, or by formal statements in it's founding documents.

I am arguing that objective reality trumps stated intentions, especially when the stated intentions are actually more of a LACK of stated intentions, while Not is arguing the opposite,

The real question is, why is he so bent out of shape over this. And what he intentions are, in making such an issue out of this historical question.
 
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NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

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A coalition of Christians and not Christians put their religion aside. It was not conflict.
Correll, post: 25741244
You spin removed, your claim that the tiny minority of non-Christians somehow won some type of conflict is completely unsupported and implausible.
I didn’t say anything about a conflict.

NotfooledbyW, post: 25741184
Sin and Saving types could not muster a Christian Superstition Coalition to go against the genius of Madison
I didn’t say the Madison coalition was devoid of Christians. My point is that among the delegates in Philadelphia it appears the sin & salvation Christians were very few. If any at all. They had little influence.

I suggest they left their religion outside the door.

That’s why the Madison coalition with little resistance succeeded in keeping the Constitution free of Religious content except to keep a separation between church and state.

Now if you could just tell Rick Perry that the first generation of ‘good citizens’ left their religion outside the door in Philadelphia. Because that is what ‘good citizens’ do in our Republic.

And tell Rick the Christian prick that good citizens created church and state separation. It was not Satan.

Satan, Separation And Absurdity: Texas Gov. Rallies 'Christian Warriors' To Scale The ...
Sep 21, 2012 — Texas Gov. Rick Perry is not one to shy away from hyperbole, having declared recently that church- state separation is the work of Satan“
 
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NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

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A coalition of Christians and not Christians put their religion aside. It was not conflict.
NotfooledbyW, post: 25743476 reply to 25741244

You spin removed, your claim that the tiny minority of non-Christians somehow won some type of conflict is completely unsupported and implausible.
I didn’t say anything about a conflict.

NotfooledbyW, post: 25741184
Sin and Saving types could not muster a Christian Superstition Coalition to go against the genius of Madison
I didn’t say the Madison coalition was devoid of Christians. My point is that among the delegates in Philadelphia it appears the sin & salvation Christians were very few. If any at all. They had little influence.

I suggest they left their religion outside the door.

That’s why the Madison coalition with little resistance succeeded in keeping the Constitution free of Religious content except to keep a separation between church and state.

Now if you could just tell Rick Perry that the first generation of ‘good citizens, left their religion outside the door in Philadelphia. Because that is what good citizens do in our Republic.

And tell Rick the Christian prick that good citizens created church and state separation. It was not Satan.

Satan, Separation And Absurdity: Texas Gov. Rallies 'Christian Warriors' To Scale The ...
Sep 21, 2012 — Texas Gov. Rick Perry is not one to shy away from hyperbole, having declared recently that church- state separation is the work of Satan“
 
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NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

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conservatives generally do not believe in the US being founded as a Christian Nation. - NotfooledbyW, post: 25744077 to 25742903
Thus, the majority of conservatives generally do not believe in the US being founded as a Christian Nation. They believe the US has a Christian heritage, but wasn't founded as a Christian Nation like the fundamentalist minority advocate.
I absolutely believe with most Americans and apparently the majority of conservatives Whom you tell me generally do not believe in the US being founded as a Christian Nation.

They and I and the vast majority of Americans believe the US has a Christian heritage, but that it was not founded as a Christian Nation like the fundamentalist minority advocate.

I have been saying that forever.

YES, Christianity is a part of our culture and heritage - NotfooledbyW, post: 23999861 to 23874564.
#860 to #198

YES, Christianity is a part of our culture and heritage. And specifically, Protestant-Christian Deist-Christian, Unitarian and Deist, highly educated men, imbued in the Enlightenment influence of the time, established a new nation, founded upon many bedrock principles. One key principle was radical at the time. It was the Separation of Church and State.

That is a huge part of our heritage, A new culture of freedom of religion and even freedom of conscience rose above centuries of religious divisions and wars. A multi-cultural society was born.

As a result, Catholic Christians, Jewish people, atheists, Buddhists, free thinkers, non-Christians, Muslims, Native Americans, Agnostics, Hindu, and many other religions and non-believers were free to create our heritage; our national identity.

We are a Great Nation today because of it. Thank You Jefferson and Madison and all founders for our culture and our heritage.
So why the personal attacks and accusing me of lying with no example of a lie from me.

why do non-Christians need to be subjugated to a lie because a small minority of Christian fundamentalists want it told?
 
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BreezeWood

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The founding fathers didn't discuss separation of church and state. They came from diverse religious backgrounds and were for religious freedoms. None claimed to be atheist as they were detested.
.
was that the native heathens or just a few choice victims from europe ... and the reason for the amendment as stated to prevent that misunderstanding from occurring.

are you satisfied the christian bible should not be recited in public institutions by gov't staffs or state sponsored curriculum - or is that just your staging platform for the immediate future. what you believe you have lost - somehow.
 
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NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

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Probing and proving lies - NotfooledbyW, post: 25745524 to 25742891,
Several of us have already proven some of your lies, and you just keep repeating them.
How do you prove lies when you have not even submitted a list or even named one single lie by me?

What you did to John Adams text in the letter to Jefferson is a lie. That’s a signed sealed and delivered lie from a Christian nationalist.
 

Correll

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I suggest they left their religion outside the door.

You can suggest it. But your suggestion by itself has no weight.

A more likely scenario, is that they took both their religion and their commitment to religious freedom in the room with them.


You know, because people generally don't leave portions of their personality and beliefs out side of the room that they are in.



Dude. You've lost so badly, and that you are still stonewalling, at this point, is just making the point more and more, what an anti-Christian bigot you are.
 
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NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

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If this is losing I’ll take it. NotfooledbyW, post: 25747271 to 25746744
You've lost so badly,
james bond, post: 25742903
Thus, the majority of conservatives generally do not believe in the US being founded as a Christian Nation. They believe the US has a Christian heritage, but wasn't founded as a Christian Nation like the fundamentalist minority advocate.
My point from day one
 

Correll

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If this is losing I’ll take it. Correll, post: 25746744
You've lost so badly,
james bond, post: 25742903
Thus, the majority of conservatives generally do not believe in the US being founded as a Christian Nation. They believe the US has a Christian heritage, but wasn't founded as a Christian Nation like the fundamentalist minority advocate.
My point from day one

So, you found someone else that sort of agrees with you. And you think that means something? That is your idea of a supporting argument?

Do you even understand what a "supporting argument" IS?
 

my2¢

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“America was founded as an Atheist and Christian Nation” which includes every law abiding belief system in between.
My belief is the country was founded as an agnostic nation with belief that the less the federal government involved itself in the lives of its people, in regards to all things including religion, the better.
 
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NotfooledbyW

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Correll, post: 25747284,
So, you found someone else that sort of agrees with you. And you think that means something?
It means james bond agrees with me and does not agree with your fallacy that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

So why are you so obsessed with pushing white evangelical Christian nationalists propaganda when your fellow conservatives are satisfied with referring to the important Christian part of our total spiritual and historical heritage as the main ingredient in the famous melting pot of America.

What is really wrong with you. Perhaps you need to find a religion more fulfilling than your cultural Christianism.

Bond gives you an out - take it.
 

Turtlesoup

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“America was founded as an Atheist and Christian Nation” which includes every law abiding belief system in between.
My belief is the country was founded as an agnostic nation with belief that the less the federal government involved itself in the lives of its people, in regards to all things including religion, the better.
That is EXACTLY what happened.
 

BreezeWood

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“America was founded as an Atheist and Christian Nation” which includes every law abiding belief system in between.
My belief is the country was founded as an agnostic nation with belief that the less the federal government involved itself in the lives of its people, in regards to all things including religion, the better.
.
My belief is the country was founded as an agnostic nation with belief that the less the federal government involved itself in the lives of its people, in regards to all things including religion, the better.
.
they united to form a country after shedding their blood whats wrong with -
.
- in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, ...
.

voluntary involvement -

not everyone is lazay fair - environmental laws should be enacted and enforced, people who desecrate the Garden should be locked up ... the gov't has a role for the conduct of society as a whole.
 

my2¢

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not everyone is lazay fair - environmental laws should be enacted and enforced, people who desecrate the Garden should be locked up ... the gov't has a role for the conduct of society as a whole.
I agree but that is not how I feel the nation's founders saw it. The basis for my answer comes from the verse about 'faith without works is dead'. From what I understand they saw no role for our federal government to feed the poor, clothe the naked, nor shelter the homeless.
 
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NotfooledbyW

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Not a founded Christian nation, there was the majority of Christians - NotfooledbyW, post: 25749853 to 25725516
It was not a founded Christian nation, it was that there was the majority who were Christians,
If the vast majority of a group, does not define the group, what does?
how about what the mixed group does instead of what it is?

For God’s sake they were not all Christians but they created the greatest and first ever constitutional system of government that was deliberately neutral on religion in world history and Correll wants to credit it all to a religion that had fifteen centuries of persecution, wars of conquest, torture and corruption and didn't do it.

America Founded as a New Religious Deal Nation sounds much better. What’s wrong with that. Recognizes all beliefs and no belief Including the most tolerant of all religions - Christianity. What’s wrong with that?
 
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NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

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tolerant or intolerant Christian - NotfooledbyW, post: 25750299 to 25729338
Can we all kick the atheists out and send them on a slow to boat to China, an atheist country (!)?
Do you consider yourself a tolerant or intolerant Christian?
 

Correll

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Correll, post: 25747284,
So, you found someone else that sort of agrees with you. And you think that means something?
It means james bond agrees with me and does not agree with your fallacy that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

So why are you so obsessed with pushing white evangelical Christian nationalists propaganda when your fellow conservatives are satisfied with referring to the important Christian part of our total spiritual and historical heritage as the main ingredient in the famous melting pot of America.

What is really wrong with you. Perhaps you need to find a religion more fulfilling than your cultural Christianism.

Bond gives you an out - take it.

1.I'm not obsessed. You brought it up, you asked a question and I answered.

2. James Bond is welcome to his opinion. My opinion is that objective reality of a group is defined by the traits of the members of the group, not their stated opinions.

3. And the fact remains this nation was founded, as a Christian Nation, with Religious Freedom as a central principle. YOu are the one here that sees that as confusing. To me it makes complete sense.


4 The nation is still majority Christian and Christianity, as you have admitted is a tremendous part of our Heritage and Culture.


5. YOU are the one obsessed with this, as part of you internal justification for your anti-Christian bigotry and discrmination.
 

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