“America was founded as an Atheist and Christian Nation” 21st Century sin & salvation Christian agrees with Unitarian Deist John Adams.

Correll

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
70,070
Reaction score
13,918
Points
2,220
how about what the mixed group does instead of what it is?

For God’s sake they were not all Christians but they created the greatest and first ever constitutional system of government that was deliberately neutral on religion

And there you do it again. You asked me about the NATION, and I responded about the NATION, and we were talking about the NATION, and suddenly, you are talking about the GOVERNMENT.


This is a stupid game of semantics you are playing, so that you have an excuse to pretend to be outraged and to smear and attack and eventually try to marginalize people that are a problem for your lefty agenda.


That is all this is. A bullshit partisan political tactic.


I've pointed it out several times. It is obvious to EVERYONE HERE, including yourself.


You are in a state of clinical denial.


Wake the fuck up man.
 
OP
NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
10,812
Reaction score
1,301
Points
245
Christians tolerating religious minorities - NotfooledbyW, post: 2575269 to 25546202

Or it could mean that it was founded as a Christian nation that was happy to ensure the religious freedom of it's small minorities of non-Christians that were present at it's founding and were expected to remain small but tolerated populations living here among the vast Christian magority.
Correll, post: 25546202

Some toleration Colonial Christians had back then:

The Continental Congress protested, claiming that Catholicism as a religion that had “deluged” Britain in blood and “dispersed impiety, bigotry, persecution, murder and rebellion through every part of the world.”

Looks again like you just make shit up after setting your position in order to support it.

It would be nice to get you into a reality based mode..
 
Last edited:

Correll

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
70,070
Reaction score
13,918
Points
2,220
Christians tolerating religious minorities - Correll, post: 25546202



Or it could mean that it was founded as a Christian nation that was happy to ensure the religious freedom of it's small minorities of non-Christians that were present at it's founding and were expected to remain small but tolerated populations living here among the vast Christian magority.
Correll, post: 25546202

Some toleration Colonial Christians had back then:

The Continental Congress protested, claiming that Catholicism as a religion that had “deluged” Britain in blood and “dispersed impiety, bigotry, persecution, murder and rebellion through every part of the world.”

Looks again like you just make shit up after setting your position to support its.

It would be nice to get you into a reality based mode..

Nothing in your post, made a counter point to my point.


Just saying bad shit about Christians, is not a point. What does that have to do with ANYTHING?
 

BreezeWood

VIP Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
10,222
Reaction score
575
Points
85
Christians tolerating religious minorities - Correll, post: 25546202



Or it could mean that it was founded as a Christian nation that was happy to ensure the religious freedom of it's small minorities of non-Christians that were present at it's founding and were expected to remain small but tolerated populations living here among the vast Christian magority.
Correll, post: 25546202

Some toleration Colonial Christians had back then:

The Continental Congress protested, claiming that Catholicism as a religion that had “deluged” Britain in blood and “dispersed impiety, bigotry, persecution, murder and rebellion through every part of the world.”

Looks again like you just make shit up after setting your position to support its.

It would be nice to get you into a reality based mode..

Nothing in your post, made a counter point to my point.


Just saying bad shit about Christians, is not a point. What does that have to do with ANYTHING?
.
Just saying bad shit about Christians, is not a point. What does that have to do with ANYTHING?
.
not saying corel, recorded and uninterrupted history of christianity as well the other desert religions.

explains your mental, juvenile aptitude ...
.
1603392284301.png

.
and its bearing on your ability to cope with the truth. ever.
 
OP
NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
10,812
Reaction score
1,301
Points
245
God of America is about to lose an election - NotfooledbyW, post: 25758066

40% of Americans believe that God has granted our nation a special role in history, while 58% disagree.

New Poll Gauges Americans’ Belief In The ‘Christian Nation’ Myth

it’s interesting to see that the above 40% to 58% split is damn close to Trump’s approval vs dissaproval.

5CE0B167-41A2-4EDE-82FF-7B33CBE5B83F.jpeg


I wonder if it’s roughly the same 41% of people. If it is it looks like the Judeo-Christian God of America is about to lose an election. He should not have chosen Trump five years ago it turns out.

Watch this average of all polls the next two weeks. Trump’s been going the wrong way if you support him for sin God infected him with the COVID plague.
 
Last edited:
OP
NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
10,812
Reaction score
1,301
Points
245
40% of Americans believe that God has granted our nation a special role in history, while 58% disagree.

New Poll Gauges Americans’ Belief In The ‘Christian Nation’ Myth

it’s interesting to see that the above 40% to 58% split is damn close to Trump’s approval vs dissaproval.

View attachment 405464

I wonder if it’s roughly the same 41% of people. If it is it looks like the Judeo-Christian God of Anerican is about to lose an election. He shouting not have chosen Trump it turns out.
 
OP
NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
10,812
Reaction score
1,301
Points
245
Your premise that the majority church affiliation or philosophical awareness of a group is what defines the group is absurd. But if it made sense I could still ask you this question:

If the majority of a group merely defines the group how does it define what the group did?

NotfooledbyW, post: 25764137 to 25725588 & 25750674

It was not a founded Christian nation, it was that there was the majority who were Christians,
If the vast majority of a group, does not define the group, what does?
25725588

I answered your question

how about what the mixed group does instead of what it is?
Founding is creating as I pointed out

For God’s sake they were not all Christians but they created the greatest and first ever constitutional system of government that was deliberately neutral on religion in world history and Correll wants to credit it all to a religion that had fifteen centuries of persecution, wars of conquest, torture and corruption and didn't do it.
Here is what Correll thinks is a valid response..

stupid game of semantics - Correll, post: 25750674
And there you do it again. You asked me about the NATION, and I responded about the NATION, and we were talking about the NATION, and suddenly, you are talking about the GOVERNMENT.

This is a stupid game of semantics you are playing, so that you have an excuse to pretend to be outraged and to smear and attack and eventually try to marginalize people that are a problem for your lefty agenda.

That is all this is. A bullshit partisan political tactic.

I've pointed it out several times. It is obvious to EVERYONE HERE, including yourself.

You are in a state of clinical denial.

Wake the fuck up man.
Had I written “For God’s sake they were not all Christians but they created the greatest and first ever NATION that was deliberately neutral on religion.” So why did it take the Christians 15 Centuries to come up with religious freedom for a nation and its government? Why name the founding Christians when Christianity had nothing to do with it.

The framers in Philadelphia created a nation:constitution:government for the people that was neutral on religion. That is what they did. They did not create
A Christian nation.
 
Last edited:

Correll

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
70,070
Reaction score
13,918
Points
2,220
Your premise that the majority church affiliation or philosophical awareness of a group is what defines the group is absurd. But if it made sense I could still ask you this question:

If the majority of a group merely defines the group how does it define what the group did?

NotfooledbyW, post: 25764137 to 25725588 & 25750674

It was not a founded Christian nation, it was that there was the majority who were Christians,
If the vast majority of a group, does not define the group, what does?
25725588

I answered your question

how about what the mixed group does instead of what it is?
Founding is creating as I pointed out

For God’s sake they were not all Christians but they created the greatest and first ever constitutional system of government that was deliberately neutral on religion in world history and Correll wants to credit it all to a religion that had fifteen centuries of persecution, wars of conquest, torture and corruption and didn't do it.
Here is what Correll thinks is a valid response..

stupid game of semantics - Correll, post: 25750674
And there you do it again. You asked me about the NATION, and I responded about the NATION, and we were talking about the NATION, and suddenly, you are talking about the GOVERNMENT.

This is a stupid game of semantics you are playing, so that you have an excuse to pretend to be outraged and to smear and attack and eventually try to marginalize people that are a problem for your lefty agenda.

That is all this is. A bullshit partisan political tactic.

I've pointed it out several times. It is obvious to EVERYONE HERE, including yourself.

You are in a state of clinical denial.

Wake the fuck up man.
Had I written “For God’s sake they were not all Christians but they created the greatest and first ever NATION that was deliberately neutral on religion.” So why did it take the Christians 15 Centuries to come up with religious freedom for a nation and its government? Why name the founding Christians when Christianity had nothing to do with it.

The framers in Philadelphia created a nation:constitution:government for the people that was neutral on religion. That is what they did. They did not create
A Christian nation.

1. And again with you conflating "Government" with "Nation". Your question was about the "NATION" and all of your points are about the GOVERNMENT.

2 Respecting religious freedom is not quite the same as "deliberately neutral on religion". The Constitution specifies religious FREEDOM, it says nothing about the Government being "neutral". That is you playing with spin.


3. It is interesting that you make a point about how long it took CHRISTIANITY so long to come up with a "nation/government" that respected religious freedom. Tell me, is there some non-Christian nation or "government" that you think did a better job on religious freedom, than ours?

4 The Founders created a Christian Nation, with a government that respects religious freedom. That that is not good enough for you, that you need to undermine the Christian Heritage of this nation, is your bigotry.
 
OP
NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
10,812
Reaction score
1,301
Points
245
Constitutional unwritten requirement on religion - be a good citizen. Nothing Christian about it - NotfooledbyW, post: 25764941, to 25764514
4 The Founders created a Christian Nation,
Where is your source for that absurd statement? neutral is to take no side on matters of religion. The founders created a nation clearly where the range on religion went from no religion whatsoever to any religion whatsoever. The requirement of all present and future Americans on matters of conscience was to be good citizens. That’s it. Stop the lying.
 

Correll

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
70,070
Reaction score
13,918
Points
2,220
Constitutional unwritten requirement on religion - be a good citizen. Nothing Christian about it - to 25764514
4 The Founders created a Christian Nation,
Where is your source for that absurd statement? neutral is to take no side on matters of religion. The founders created a nation clearly where the range on religion went from no religion whatsoever to any religion whatsoever. The requirement of all present and future Americans on matters of conscience was to be good citizens. That’s it. Stop the lying.

It is a Christian Nation that respects the Freedom of Religion of it's minorities. What part of that do you find hard to understand?

And there is nothing about Religious Freedom that requires "neutrality" on religion.


"Neutrality" is something you just made up, and that you cannot support with anything.


You are the liar here, and the anti-Christian bigot.

Note how often you have smeared Christians and Christianity here, in this thread and compare that to how often I have insulted Atheists or Secular people. You have done so repeatedly and I have done so not at all.


Because I am not a bigot, or an asshole or a want a be tyrant.
 
OP
NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
10,812
Reaction score
1,301
Points
245
Christian Nation means spiritual nation religious nation - “The founders purposely created a nation that based its legitimacy on popular will, not on some higher power.”
Steven K. Green - NotfooledbyW, post: 25770837 to 25764968
It is a Christian Nation that respects the Freedom of Religion of it's minorities.
When you define America to have been founded as a Christian nation you are simultaneously making America to be a wholly spiritual nation and a wholly religious nation as well.

Deny it all you want but that is what Christian nation means. And you must admit that what you say is not true.

You are making each person who is a member of the American group in 1791 to have been a spiritually minded and outwardly religious Christian. You make religious and non-religious minorities disappear.

Your generalized version somehow includes each individual atheist or Muslim being of equal belief and religiosity as that of a most devoted Christian., Therefore basic logic says that the way you define the founding of America is not only untrue but it makes no sense at all with respect to religious minorities.!

Do you know who Richard D Land is? I can agree with his version of the
Founding of America as a combining of Judeo-Christian values with Enlightenment theories of self-government.

“America was a new and exciting experiment combining Enlightenment theories of self-government with Judeo-Christian values.”

What Does 'God Bless America' Really Mean? By Richard D. Land, Christian Post Executive Efitor

Why can’t you?
 
Last edited:

Correll

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
70,070
Reaction score
13,918
Points
2,220
Christian Nation means spiritual nation religious nation - “The founders purposely created a nation that based its legitimacy on popular will, not on some higher power.”
And again, you conflate NATION, with GOVERNMENT. The Founder created a nation by uniting a group of preexisting communities, that were massive Christian.

The GOVERNMENT's legitimacy was based on the consent of the governed, though somewhat democratic elections.

That you keep pretending that this point has not been made clear to you DOZENS of times, is you lying as a form of stonewalling,


BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT YOUR POSITION IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT.



Steven K. Green - NotfooledbyW, post: 25770837 to 25764968
It is a Christian Nation that respects the Freedom of Religion of it's minorities.
When you define America to have been founded as a Christian nation you are simultaneously making America to be a wholly spiritual nation and a wholly religious nation as well.[/QUOTE]


Nope. When I made a general statement about a group I am not claiming that EVERYONE in that group is that.

There is a distinction between a generalization and an universal claim. This is a grade school, hell, maybe a pre-grade school understanding of vocabulary. It is not credible that you do not know this.

STOP THE BULLSHIT.


Deny it all you want but that is what Christian nation means. And you must admit that what you say is not true.

You made that point above. It is still BULLSHIT. Your are pretending to be stupid and using that stupidity to gin up a debate of semantics, in order to run away from the real topics and issues of this thread, which is your side's desire to marginalize Christians, because you are anti-Christian bigots.


You are making each person who is a member of the American group in 1791 to have been a spiritually minded and outwardly religious Christian. You make religious and non-religious minorities disappear.
Third time in this post, you are pretending to be too stupid to understand what a generalization is. A generalization does not "make minorities disappear", it just defines the group by the majority. Which is completely reasonable.


This is all bullshit from you to hide the real issue, your anti-Christian bigotry.


Your generalized version somehow includes each individual atheist or Muslim being of equal belief and religiosity as that of a most devoted Christian., Therefore basic logic says that the way you define the founding of America is not only untrue but it makes no sense at all with respect to religious minorities.!

FOURTH time you have made the same stupid point, where you pretend to not understand what a generalization is. Seriously, how can it not bother you, to pretend to be this stupid?

I think my daughter was TWO, when we had to explain to her, that while yes, she has to avoid things that are HOT, because DANGER, that HOT DOGS were an exception to the general rule and were actually ok to eat.


She was two, and she got it, with one explanation, how generalizations work.


HOw old are you? That you have the mind of less than a two year old?



Do you know who Richard D Land is? I can agree with his version of the
Founding of America as a combining of Judeo-Christian values with Enlightenment theories of self-government.

“America was a new and exciting experiment combining Enlightenment theories of self-government with Judeo-Christian values.”

What Does 'God Bless America' Really Mean? By Richard D. Land, Christian Post Executive Efitor

Why can’t you?

Sounds like Land is talking about the GOVERNMENT. The topic, that you brought up with your question was the NATION.


How long are you going to pretend to be to stupid to understand the meanings of the words you are using?
 
OP
NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
10,812
Reaction score
1,301
Points
245
Richard D Land’s two principles went into founding our nation: “Enlightenment theories of self-government with Judeo-Christian values.”. NotfooledbyW, post: 25772250, to 25771226 01

Do you know who Richard D Land is? I can agree with his version of the Founding of America as a combining of Judeo-Christian values with Enlightenment theories of self-government.

“America was a new and exciting experiment combining Enlightenment theories of self-government with Judeo-Christian values.”
Correll, post: 25771226 01 to 25770837
Sounds like Land is talking about the GOVERNMENT. The topic, that you brought up with your question was the NATION.
I can read. It does not “sound like” the subject of Dr Land’s quote is the government. His “subject” and “object” in his statement is “a new and exciting experiment” called America.

America is the nation being discussed. I realize language comprehension becomes quite difficult for you when your ignorance and dishonesty has been exposed. So I will continue with this.

America, our nation, does have a government - does it not?

Our nation was formally founded in 1791 or was it not?

According to Richard D Land there were two major principles that went into the founding of our nation in 1791. They were “Enlightenment theories of self-government with Judeo-Christian values.”. One is Christian the other is not.

I agree with that generalization by a Southern Baptist leader from a high profile white Southern Baptist Evangelical leader regarding the founding of America. Generalizing beyond that level of information are for purposes of deception and therefore lying.

Do you?

Here Dr. land explains further and notice he uses your favorite word and crutch. - conflate.

LAND: Too often too many conservative Christians assume that God is on their side or they tend to conflate God's interest with America's interest. That's an assumption that no one can make about any country, even the United States. As Lincoln put it so eloquently, our responsibility and obligation is to do our very best to be on God's side rather than assume that God is on our side. We have to understand that our ultimate allegiance belongs to God, not to the United States.​

Dr Land and I agree that America is not a Christian nation.

God & country We're not a Christian nation, says Southern Baptist leader Richard Land, but America has certainly been blessed by Marvin Olasky​
Post Date: April 21, 2007 - Issue Date: April 20, 2007​
Richard Land's The Divided States of America? (W Publishing Group, 2007) has as its subtitle What Liberals AND Conservatives are missing in the God-and-country​

Why can’t you Correll ? What is your agenda that you must lie by generalization about how and why our nation was founded?
 
Last edited:

Correll

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
70,070
Reaction score
13,918
Points
2,220
Richard D Land’s two principles went into founding our nation: “Enlightenment theories of self-government with Judeo-Christian values.”. to 25771226 01

Do you know who Richard D Land is? I can agree with his version of the Founding of America as a combining of Judeo-Christian values with Enlightenment theories of self-government.

“America was a new and exciting experiment combining Enlightenment theories of self-government with Judeo-Christian values.”
Correll, post: 25771226 01 to 25770837
Sounds like Land is talking about the GOVERNMENT. The topic, that you brought up with your question was the NATION.
I can read. It does not “sound like” the subject of Dr Land’s quote is the government. His “subject” is “a new and exciting experiment” called America.

America is the nation being discussed. I realize language comprehension becomes quite difficult for you when your ignorance and dishonesty has been exposed. So I will continue with this.

America, our nation, does have a government - does it not?

Our nation was formally founded in 1791 or was it not?

According to Richard D Land there were two major principles that went into the founding of our nation in 1791. They were “Enlightenment theories of self-government with Judeo-Christian values.”. One is Christian the other is not.

I agree with that generalization Southern Baptist leader from a high profile white Southern Baptist Evangelical leader regarding the founding of America. Generalizing beyond that level of information are for purposes if deception and therefore lying.

Do you?

Here Dr. land explains further and notice he uses your favorite word and crutch. - conflate.

LAND: Too often too many conservative Christians assume that God is on their side or they tend to conflate God's interest with America's interest. That's an assumption that no one can make about any country, even the United States. As Lincoln put it so eloquently, our responsibility and obligation is to do our very best to be on God's side rather than assume that God is on our side. We have to understand that our ultimate allegiance belongs to God, not to the United States.​


Dr Land and I agree that America is not a Christian nation.

God & country We're not a Christian nation, says Southern Baptist leader Richard Land, but America has certainly been blessed by Marvin Olasky​
Post Date: April 21, 2007 - Issue Date: April 20, 2007​
Richard Land's The Divided States of America? (W Publishing Group, 2007) has as its subtitle What Liberals AND Conservatives are missing in the God-and-country​

Why can’t you Correll ? What is your agenda that you must lie by generalization about how and why our nation was founded?

I have given my opinion how this nation as founded and the intent. NOthing I have said or done justifies you casting doubt on my sincerity.


Ask me again, and this time, phrase it like an actual question.
 
OP
NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
10,812
Reaction score
1,301
Points
245
Richard D Land’s two principles went into founding our nation: “Enlightenment theories of self-government with Judeo-Christian values.”. NotfooledbyW, post: 25772250, to 25771226 01
Ask me again, and this time, phrase it like an actual question.
Do you know who Richard D Land is?
I can agree with his version of the Founding of America​

“America was a new and exciting experiment combining Enlightenment theories of self-government with Judeo-Christian values.”​

Why can’t you?

I agree with that generalization by a Southern Baptist leader from a high profile white Southern Baptist Evangelical leader regarding the founding of America.

Do you?
 
OP
NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
10,812
Reaction score
1,301
Points
245
Using non-specific language, generalized phrases and sweeping statements are common tactics for liars, who are trying to avoid giving hard facts and information. Rather than focusing on the details of a situation or giving specifics, liars dance around the truth by using overly generalized statements that are too mushy to be disproven.

10 Telltale Phrases That Indicate Somebody Isn't Telling the Truth

0827A NotfooledbyW, post: 25784468 25771226 to 25770837

And again, you conflate NATION, with GOVERNMENT. The Founder created a nation by uniting a group of preexisting communities, that were massive Christian.

The GOVERNMENT's legitimacy was based on the consent of the governed, though somewhat democratic elections.
I know that you prefer your beloved generalizations, but I want to get you on record as one who must ignore the specifics and detailed facts regarding the secular minded founding of the United (Protestant Christian) States of America.

How did the founders “UNITE” the preexisting communities, that were massively Christian?

Did the founders address the huge rift in the 1790 world between Protestants and Catholics in the founding document? After all most of the Christians In the world were Catholic in 1790 but the newly formed and united Americans were Protestants who almost to a man detested the actual founders of the organized and established religion known as Christianity - The Catholic Church.

That being settled, your limp phrase must at least be revised to a ‘founded as a Protestant Christian nation’ because of the fact that you are claiming Christian Nation status based upon The Founders creating “a nation by uniting a group of preexisting communities, that were massive Christian”

They were very distinctly and emphatically Protestant and anti-Catholic at that time.

How did the founders “UNITE” the preexisting communities, that were massively Christian as you describe It?

You wrote without CONFLATING a damned thing, that the new “GOVERNMENT's legitimacy was based on the consent of the governed”

That is true, however In order to obtain the consent to be governed from the massively Protestant Christian community the founders - Christian believers and non-believers alike - in Philadelphia, decided darn near unanimously to put religion aside in order to form a more perfect union to endure for the ages and come what may the future brings.,

Putting Christianity aside in 1791 does not allow you to define my nation as Christian at all.

If you wish to express your belief that The God in your Bible has blessed America - Go for it - but your lies of generalization really need to stop.

If your God truly blessed America then it is reality that he blessed a godless and secular as written Constitution. And it was blessed by the massive as you call it Christian population at the time - so let it be.

It was acceptable back then. Why are you obsessed with rewriting that first generation remarkable history more than two centuries later as we watch the religion obsessed Republican Party go down in flames under Trump. That will be Trump’s greatest bankruptcy by far. The PARTY lived by the white Evangelical, will die by the white Evangelical. Thank you Don J as in Jesus Trump.
 
Last edited:

Correll

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
70,070
Reaction score
13,918
Points
2,220
Using non-specific language, generalized phrases and sweeping statements are common tactics for liars, who are trying to avoid giving hard facts and information. Rather than focusing on the details of a situation or giving specifics, liars dance around the truth by using overly generalized statements that are too mushy to be disproven.

10 Telltale Phrases That Indicate Somebody Isn't Telling the Truth

0827A NotfooledbyW, post: 25784468 25771226 to 25770837

And again, you conflate NATION, with GOVERNMENT. The Founder created a nation by uniting a group of preexisting communities, that were massive Christian.

The GOVERNMENT's legitimacy was based on the consent of the governed, though somewhat democratic elections.
I know that you prefer your beloved generalizations, but I want to get you on record as one who must ignore the specifics and detailed facts regarding the secular minded founding of the United (Protestant Christian) States of America.

How did the founders “UNITE” the preexisting communities, that were massively Christian?

Did the founders address the huge rift in the 1790 world between Protestants and Catholics in the founding document? After all most of the Christians In the world were Catholic in 1790 but the newly formed and united Americans were Protestants who almost to a man detested the actual founders of the organized and established religion known as Christianity - The Catholic Church.

That being settled, your limp phrase must at least be revised to a ‘founded as a Protestant Christian nation’ because of the fact that you are claiming Christian Nation status based upon The Founders creating “a nation by uniting a group of preexisting communities, that were massive Christian”

They were very distinctly and emphatically Protestant and anti-Catholic at that time.

How did the founders “UNITE” the preexisting communities, that were massively Christian as you describe It?

You wrote without CONFLATING a damned thing, that the new “GOVERNMENT's legitimacy was based on the consent of the governed”

That is true, however In order to obtain the consent to be governed from the massively Protestant Christian community the founders - Christian believers and non-believers alike - in Philadelphia, decided darn near unanimously to put religion aside in order to form a more perfect union to endure for the ages and come what may the future brings.,

Putting Christianity aside in 1791 does not allow you to define my nation as Christian at all.

If you wish to express your belief that The God in your Bible has blessed America - Go for it - but your lies of generalization really need to stop.

If your God truly blessed America then it is reality that he blessed a godless and secular as written Constitution. And it was blessed by the massive as you call it Christian population at the time - so let it be.

It was acceptable back then. Why are you obsessed with rewriting that first generation remarkable history more than two centuries later as we watch the religion obsessed Republican Party go down in flames under Trump. That will be Trump’s greatest bankruptcy by far. The PARTY lived by the white Evangelical, will die by the white Evangelical. Thank you Don J as in Jesus Trump.

1. Generalizations can be disproven. You could demonstrate for example, if the nation was NOT massively Christian at the time of it's founding, or the word "nation" is NOT defined by the make up of it's members. Good luck with that.


2. How did they unite the colonies into a Nation? By crafting a Federal Government that respected the "States Rights" and the Rights of the individual citizens, including religious freedom. Note that the bar against an Established National Church, did not conflict with any of that.

3. A government that does not have an Established Church, and respects religious freedoms is not "putting religion aside". Again we see that your goal here is to push religion and religious people, OUT OF THE PUBLIC SQUARE, unless of course, they agree with you politically, then they get a pass.

4. Your raving about "Jesus Trump" is you being hysterical. Calm yourself.
 
OP
NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
10,812
Reaction score
1,301
Points
245
Generalizations can be disproven. “In 1776, only about 17 percent of the country were church members, compared to about 65 percent today, NotfooledbyW, post: 25788111 to 25784769 to 25784769

1. Generalizations can be disproven. You could demonstrate for example, if the nation was NOT massively Christian at the time of it's founding, or the word "nation" is NOT defined by the make up of it's members.
Your body count assumptions using the Percentage of total population method to determine that America was majority a Christian and therefore founded as a Christian nation cannot be proven at all.

How do you know there was a massive Christian majority in America from 1776 through 1991?

In fact you are so far off you should be laughed off this forum:

THE WAY WE WEREN'T: RELIGION IN COLONIAL AMERICA By Richard Morin
November 26, 1995

New facts and hot stats from the social sciences

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...america/6cb64903-30f4-435e-a415-6be0f0465bfe/
Many Americans, particularly those who preach on television, argue that the United States has forsaken the religious commitment of its forefathers for the easy pleasures of sin, sloth and televised professional sports.

So your argument is now dead on that score alone.

Religious behavior is mostly between a man and whatever version of god or no god at all suits him. So I’m not sure where you get your 1790 data confirming a massive majority of Christians living under the newly ratified secular Constitution of the United States of America.

“In 1776, only about 17 percent of the country were church members, compared to about 65 percent today, said Stark, who has tallied church membership as a percentage of the population over the past 250 years using church records and census figures.

So where is your social science data verifying your massive Christian majority? Here is mine;

“ Church Membership In America Percentage of population that belongs to a church: 1776 17% 1850 34 1860 37 1870 35 1890 45 1906 51 1916 53 1926 56 1952 59 1980 62 1995 65* *Estimated. Source: "The Churching of America: 1776-1990" by Roger Finke and Rodney Stark and Gallup Organization dat “

Social Scientists find your argument that a massive majority were hooked on Christian religion in 1780’s America to be false.

I don’t think your majority based Christian nation is valid even if you could prove that a majority in 1790 were confirmed some how to be Christians.
 
Last edited:

Correll

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
70,070
Reaction score
13,918
Points
2,220
Generalizations can be disproven. “In 1776, only about 17 percent of the country were church members, compared to about 65 percent today, NotfooledbyW, post: 25788111 to 25784769 to 25784769

1. Generalizations can be disproven. You could demonstrate for example, if the nation was NOT massively Christian at the time of it's founding, or the word "nation" is NOT defined by the make up of it's members.
Your body count assumptions using the Percentage of total population method to determine that America was majority a Christian and therefore founded as a Christian nation cannot be proven at all.

How do you know there was a massive Christian majority in America from 1776 through 1991?

In fact you are so far off you should be laughed off this forum:

THE WAY WE WEREN'T: RELIGION IN COLONIAL AMERICA By Richard Morin
November 26, 1995

New facts and hot stats from the social sciences

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...america/6cb64903-30f4-435e-a415-6be0f0465bfe/
Many Americans, particularly those who preach on television, argue that the United States has forsaken the religious commitment of its forefathers for the easy pleasures of sin, sloth and televised professional sports.

So your argument is now dead on that score alone.

Religious behavior is mostly between a man and whatever version of god or no god at all suits him. So I’m not sure where you get your 1790 data confirming a massive majority of Christians living under the newly ratified secular Constitution of the United States of America.

“In 1776, only about 17 percent of the country were church members, compared to about 65 percent today, said Stark, who has tallied church membership as a percentage of the population over the past 250 years using church records and census figures.

So where is your social science data verifying your massive Christian majority? Here is mine;

“ Church Membership In America Percentage of population that belongs to a church: 1776 17% 1850 34 1860 37 1870 35 1890 45 1906 51 1916 53 1926 56 1952 59 1980 62 1995 65* *Estimated. Source: "The Churching of America: 1776-1990" by Roger Finke and Rodney Stark and Gallup Organization dat “

Social Scientists find your argument that a massive majority were hooked on Christian religion in 1780’s America to be false.

I don’t think your majority based Christian nation is valid even if you could prove that a majority in 1790 were confirmed some how to be Christians.

Thank you for your attempt to actually disprove my generalization. IN doing so, before I address it, you are thus admitting when you said generalizations could not be disproven,


you are admitting that was incorrect, right? That what you said was simply false.


Were you honestly wrong, or were you lying? Did you learn something from your debate with me, or were you lying when you made that previous claim?
 
OP
NotfooledbyW

NotfooledbyW

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
10,812
Reaction score
1,301
Points
245
disproving a generalization. NotfooledbyW, post: 25791096 to 25789071
Thank you for your attempt to actually disprove my generalization.
How did I disprove your generalization that you have not and cannot prove to be true?

here is what I wrote:

Religious behavior is mostly between a man and whatever version of god or no god at all suits him. So I’m not sure where you get your 1790 data confirming a massive majority of Christians living under the newly ratified secular Constitution of the United States of America.
{{“In 1776, only about 17 v percent of the country were church members, compared to about 65 percent today, said Stark, who has tallied church membership as a percentage of the population over the past 250 years using church records and census figures.​

So where is your social science data verifying your massive Christian majority? Here is mine;​

“ Church Membership In America Percentage of population that belongs to a church: 1776 17% 1850 34 1860 37 1870 35 1890 45 1906 51 1916 53 1926 56 1952 59 1980 62 1995 65* *Estimated. Source: "The Churching of America: 1776-1990" by Roger Finke and Rodney Stark and Gallup Organization data”}}​

I wish I could believe you have just admitted that you were lying when you claim there was a Christian majority in the Colonies turned United States in 1790.

I rather expect that you will be trashing Roger Finke and Rodney Stark and Gallup Organization as Commie Anti Christian Trump hating fake news bigots or something along those lines begs because that is what you do.
 
Last edited:

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top