“America was founded as an Atheist and Christian Nation” 21st Century sin & salvation Christian agrees with Unitarian Deist John Adams.

[NotfooledbyW]

#21 reply to #18.

Your response to my evidence was "La la la la I can't hear you". You just ignored it, or denied it said what it clearly spelled out.

Didn’t hear you? WTF? Liar. Here you posted a link to the bogus John Adams quote - see #20 reply to #18.

Post E&T#879

The Founding Fathers on Jesus, Christianity and the Bible - WallBuilders

print

wallbuilders.com

Regardless, we have numerous statements by the founding fathers, that indicate a belief in G-d, and Jesus Christ.

I responded immediately. Here is another serious flaw in your evidence. Your link does not match what you say it does. The link was supposed to confirm the founding fathers, believed in G-d, and Jesus Christ. CHECKING your evidence we find belief in God which is no news to anyone. John Adams was a Unitarian. That is belief in God, But he did not believe in the Divinity of Jesus Or the Holy Ghost. John Adams was no sin and salvation Christian. But being the liar that you are you cited the fake quote and tried to convert John Adams into a Christian by misreading it.

​

“The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.1“​

​

The Founding Fathers on Jesus, Christianity and the Bible - WallBuilders​

Adams, (even in the fake quote ) is not accepting Jesus as his Lord and Savior.

He is saying that general Christian principles that atheists accept were Part and only part of what of what united the young men who fought the war for independence.

Why do white Christian nationslists lie to convert nonChristian founding fathers into believers in what Jefferson refers to as hocus pocus.

From Thomas Jefferson to James Smith, 8 December 1822
the hocus-pocus phantasm of a god like another Cerberus, with one body and three heads had it's birth and growth in the blood of thousands and thousands of martyrs.

 

[Correll]

I want to not have to spend time defendIng religious liberty from Christian nationalists who would demolish it immediately if they could.

Show me your strongest example that that is a serious concern, and not bullshit to justify your anti-Christian bigotry.


And don't give me a bullshit gish gallop list of weak ass shit. I want your STRONGEST SINGLE EXAMPLE, the one that you could not believe when they tried it, that keeps you awake at night.

And if you can't even come up with ONE, which is likely, then your claim is complete bullshit and we will address what that means.

 

[Correll]

In order to document the extent that the minor Christian nationalists like @Correll @ding @Andylusion must lie to push their intolerant national ChrIstian identity Campaign

There is nothing about saying that we are a Christian Nation that implies any intolerance of other faiths.

That is bullshit that you just made up.

 

[Correll]

founded by WASPs
#16 reply to #15.2

America was founded as a country based on Anglo-Saxon cultural and political domination and 'Protestant working ethic'.

When you say America was Founded as..... are you you saying America was Founded to be a WASP Nation and inviting in all other ethnicities and religions has ruined her.

I recognize and appreciate the fact that your version of Christian Nation is more correct than the Christian nationalists posting here wish to admit. The dominant religion at the time of America!s founding was white an Protestant.

Wonder why Correll ding Andylusion don’t want to talk about that as the reality of the Christian nationalist movement.

I asked you about your constant conflation of "white" and "White Nationalist" and you said that was not what you meant.


Are you changing your tune now?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

defendIng religious liberty from Christian nationalists #25 reply to #12 Correll, post: 25722416

Show me your strongest example that that is a serious concern, and not bullshit to justify your anti-Christian bigotry.

Do you believe In the Demonic Biblical creature archangel, Satan, Devil, Beelzebul, Baal? Yes or no?

And do you believe your fellow Christian nationalist the former Texas Gov. Rick Perry when he confesses a belief that such a creature, In actual real life,, about 230 years ago, infected history and the great minds of Jefferson and Madison, in some nefarious conspiracy in cahoots with the oppressed Danbury Baptists, to establish that satanic fundamental Constitutional principle known as church-state separation snd disestablishment of church from government in order to eventually undermine and destroy the Christian Nation that Jefferson and Madison devoted their lives to creating so that you and I could no longer pursue happiness through whatever dictate of conscience we choose. And as Washington says while being good citizens.
Do you agree with Perry that Separation of Church and State is the work of the devil?
Yes or no?

 

[Correll]

defendIng religious liberty from Christian nationalists #25 reply to #12

Show me your strongest example that that is a serious concern, and not bullshit to justify your anti-Christian bigotry.

Do you believe In the Demonic Biblical creature archangel, Satan, Devil, Beelzebul, Baal? Yes or no?

And do you believe your fellow Christian nationalist the former Texas Gov. Rick Perry when he confesses a belief that such a creature, In actual real life,, about 230 years ago, infected history and the great minds of Jefferson and Madison, in some nefarious conspiracy in cahoots with the oppressed Danbury Baptists, to establish that satanic fundamental Constitutional principle known as church-state separation snd disestablishment of church from government in order to eventually undermine and destroy the Christian Nation that Jefferson and Madison devoted their lives to creating so that you and I could pursue happiness through whatever dictate of conscience we choose. And as Washington says while being good citizens.
Do you agree with Perry that Separation of Church and State is the work of the devil?
Yes or no?

So, your greatest example of a threat to the religious liberty of non-Christians in this country, is not a law, or a government policy or even a proposed law, or a proposed government policy,


but a personal opinion about the concept of "Church-State Separation"?


THAT is your strongest example of a threat to the Freedom of Religion for non-Christians in this country? That one governor was against the idea of "Church-State Separation"?


Considering that the nation is vastly Christian and has been even more vastly Christian, that you cannot point to more concrete examples of ACTUAL OPPRESSION AND/OR DISCRIMINATION, is a massive testimony to the embrace of religious freedom by the Christians of this Christian Nation.


A little gratitude and respect would be the reasonable response. Not hysterical panic mongering and bigotry.

 

[BreezeWood]

I want to not have to spend time defendIng religious liberty from Christian nationalists who would demolish it immediately if they could.

Show me your strongest example that that is a serious concern, and not bullshit to justify your anti-Christian bigotry.


And don't give me a bullshit gish gallop list of weak ass shit. I want your STRONGEST SINGLE EXAMPLE, the one that you could not believe when they tried it, that keeps you awake at night.

And if you can't even come up with ONE, which is likely, then your claim is complete bullshit and we will address what that means.

.

I want to not have to spend time defendIng religious liberty from Christian nationalists who would demolish it immediately if they could.

Show me your --- example that is a --- concern ....

.
not a concern, a breach of the constitutions establishment clause by christian nationalist zealots. corel.

any reference by gov't to any religion is prohibited by the u s constitution - particularly forced complicity -
.

.
"In God we trust", was adopted by the U.S. Congress in 1956, supplanting E pluribus unum, which had been in use since the initial 1776 design of the Great Seal of the United States.
.
the christian nationalist are not content to exercise their religious preference among themselves but insist by corrosion to force their their views to be accepted unwillingly by a public at large that is protected from such intrusion by their constitution from the legislative enactments christianity has issued against them.

 

[Correll]

I want to not have to spend time defendIng religious liberty from Christian nationalists who would demolish it immediately if they could.

Show me your strongest example that that is a serious concern, and not bullshit to justify your anti-Christian bigotry.


And don't give me a bullshit gish gallop list of weak ass shit. I want your STRONGEST SINGLE EXAMPLE, the one that you could not believe when they tried it, that keeps you awake at night.

And if you can't even come up with ONE, which is likely, then your claim is complete bullshit and we will address what that means.

.

I want to not have to spend time defendIng religious liberty from Christian nationalists who would demolish it immediately if they could.

Show me your --- example that is a --- concern ....

.
not a concern, a breach of the constitutions establishment clause by christian nationalist zealots. corel.

any reference by gov't to any religion is prohibited by the u s constitution - particularly forced complicity -
.
View attachment 403466
.
"In God we trust", was adopted by the U.S. Congress in 1956, supplanting E pluribus unum, which had been in use since the initial 1776 design of the Great Seal of the United States.
.
the christian nationalist are not content to exercise their religious preference among themselves but insist by corrosion to force their their views to be accepted unwillingly by a public at large that is protected from such intrusion by their constitution from the legislative enactments christianity has issued against them.

So, in your mind, ANY reference to any religion, is a violation of non-religious citizens rights?

Thanks. I was trying to make the point that your side's fears of Christians was overblown hysteria, and I hoped that if you tried giving an example that you would make that point for me.


And you did.

 

[FredVegbarfuss]

It was not a founded Christian nation, it was that there was the majority who were Christians, and there were others who went along with Christianity, or were involved in an aberrant belief also called Christian. Few were of other beliefs. Constitutional protection for freedom of believers to live according to their faith went to those of the majority, who were the Christians, the form of that protection applied to those of other beliefs as well, so government should not interfere with or favor any one position in a matter of belief over any other one.

 

[Correll]

It was not a founded Christian nation, it was that there was the majority who were Christians, and there were others who went along with Christianity, or were involved in an aberrant belief also called Christian. Few were of other beliefs. Constitutional protection for freedom of believers to live according to their faith went to those of the majority, who were the Christians, the form of that protection applied to those of other beliefs as well, so government should not interfere with or favor any one position in a matter of belief over any other one.

If the vast majority of a group, does not define the group, what does?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

White Christian Nationalist Absurd Rule: “majority of a group, defines the entire group” Correll, post: ‘25725588

It was not a founded Christian nation, it was that there was the majority who were Christians.

You are right FredV, You speak truth so Correll will do all he can to impose his Cultural Christian Rules on you.

I’m not sure if Correll would have counted as a Christian in 1787 Colonial America.

Cultural Christian - Correll, post: 25536651

2. I am not a religious person myself, though I would describe myself as Cultural Christian.

I don’t know what “not religious cultural Christian” means because Correll won’t say. Does he believe in original sin and salvation by the blood of Jesus Christ? Does he believe the Bible is the literal Word of God?

If the vast majority of a group, does not define the group, what does? The

Correction ell wants all to agree to define America as a Christian Nation without being able to define what kind of Christian he is and what kind of Christian we were as a nation and what kind of Christian nation we are now.

Also part of defining the Christians of 1787 prior to ratification of the Constitution, I say, that each subgroup of white Protestant Christians were not in most cases tolerant of other sects and of other religions.

It deeply matters because the phrase
Christian Nationalists seek should read “America was founded as an intolerant Christian Nation.”

 

[NotfooledbyW]

majority of a group defines the group - Correll, post: 25725588

If the vast majority of a group, does not define the group, what does?

Probably the founding father of Christian televangelism, Billy Graham wrote in 2006 that only a minority of Americans are active Christians.

“Since its founding, this nation has been deeply influenced by the Bible and the Christian faith, and many people in our nation have a strong commitment to Christ and are seeking to follow Him in their daily lives.​

But only a minority of our citizens are active Christians, and America is not a fully “Christian” nation.”​

If the United States is a Christian nation, why is there so much crime?​

How did you determine the population share of active Christians in 1787 and in 2006?

And why do you presume to speak for every single active Christian including in 1787, the Danbury Baptists and Reverend Darby’s Congregation these days. How would you be able to know that they want their practice of religion to be tied as you wish to a worldly nation’s identity. Perhaps some active Christian want their religion kept separated completely from the state.

Why do you presume to speak for active Christians when you admit you are a not religious Cultural Christian?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Correll, post: 25708719

Except they are not starting this thread to demand anything.

My first reply:

NotfooledbyW, post: 25715869, Re: 25708719

You are commenting on this thread but not saying anything. Of course Christian nationalists did not start this thread because I did. There is no disagreement from you that Christian nationalists have never made any demands of secular minded Americans to submit to their unreasonable and unfounded demands.

I see you agree with me that you were wrong to suggest that Christian nationalists have never made any demands of secular minded Americans to submit to their unreasonable and unfounded demands.

Am I correct.

 

[Correll]

White Christian Nationalist Absurd Rule: “majority of a group, defines the entire group” Correll, post: ‘25725588

It was not a founded Christian nation, it was that there was the majority who were Christians.

You are right FredV, You speak truth so Correll will do all he can to impose his Cultural Christian Rules on you.

I’m not sure if Correll would have counted as a Christian in 1787 Colonial America.

Cultural Christian - Correll, post: 25536651

2. I am not a religious person myself, though I would describe myself as Cultural Christian.

I don’t know what “not religious cultural Christian” means because Correll won’t say. Does he believe in original sin and salvation by the blood of Jesus Christ? Does he believe the Bible is the literal Word of God?

If the vast majority of a group, does not define the group, what does? The

Correction ell wants all to agree to define America as a Christian Nation without being able to define what kind of Christian he is and what kind of Christian we were as a nation and what kind of Christian nation we are now.

Also part of defining the Christians of 1787 prior to ratification of the Constitution, I say, that each subgroup of white Protestant Christians were not in most cases tolerant of other sects and of other religions.

It deeply matters because the phrase
Christian Nationalists seek should read “America was founded as an intolerant Christian Nation.”

1. Thanks for adding the word "entire" to my quote. I take that as an admission that you know what I said was completely true and you had to change it, in order to argue with it at all.


2. My statement about the group is a generalization. Your desire to get lost in details and specifics is a desire to move the goal posts because you know that my position is completely correct, you just hate it. Because you are an anti-Christian bigot.

3. And your only defense is to pretend to be too stupid to understand the concept of generalizations. Which most people get when they are about TWO YEARS OLD.

 

[Correll]

majority of a group defines the group - Correll, post: 25725588

If the vast majority of a group, does not define the group, what does?

Probably the founding father of Christian televangelism, Billy Graham wrote in 2006 that only a minority of Americans are active Christians.

“Since its founding, this nation has been deeply influenced by the Bible and the Christian faith, and many people in our nation have a strong commitment to Christ and are seeking to follow Him in their daily lives.​

​

But only a minority of our citizens are active Christians, and America is not a fully “Christian” nation.”​

If the United States is a Christian nation, why is there so much crime?​

How did you determine the population share of active Christians in 1787 and in 2006?

And why do you presume to speak for every single active Christian including in 1787, the Danbury Baptists and Reverend Darby’s Congregation these days. How would you be able to know that they want their practice of religion to be tied as you wish to a worldly nation’s identity. Perhaps some active Christian want their religion kept separated completely from the state.

Why do you presume to speak for active Christians when you admit you are a not religious Cultural Christian?

Seriously, you seem to be raving. Why are you so bent out of shape about this question of historical events from centuries before either of us were born?

 

[Correll]

Correll, post: 25708719

Except they are not starting this thread to demand anything.

My first reply:

NotfooledbyW, post: 25715869, Re: 25708719

You are commenting on this thread but not saying anything. Of course Christian nationalists did not start this thread because I did. There is no disagreement from you that Christian nationalists have never made any demands of secular minded Americans to submit to their unreasonable and unfounded demands.

I see you agree with me that you were wrong to suggest that Christian nationalists have never made any demands of secular minded Americans to submit to their unreasonable and unfounded demands.

Am I correct.

You are not making any sense. You are argued yourself into pretzel logic and are looking more and more absurd with each post.


Dude.

Read this, and tell me if this is not how you truly feel.


You know that this nation was founded by Christians and for Christians, primarily and that it is still largely Christian and you hate that, you think it is a bad thing, for reasons you won't admit.


You think that the decline of religiosity, is a GOOD thing, for reasons you won't admit.

 

[james bond]

AGREE? DISAGREE? SUGGESTIONS?

Can we all kick the atheists out and send them on a slow to boat to China, an atheist country (!)?

Maybe that country was founded as an atheist nation???!!!???!!!

 

[Hollie]

AGREE? DISAGREE? SUGGESTIONS?

Can we all kick the atheists out and send them on a slow to boat to China, an atheist country (!)?

Maybe that country was founded as an atheist nation???!!!???!!!

Who is ''we''?

"We'' have the history of Christian theocracies to understand that those tend toward oppression and intolerance, just as you showed.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Can we all kick the atheists out - "james bond, post: 25729338,

Can we all kick the atheists out and send them on a slow to boat to China, an atheist country (!)?

Maybe that country was founded as an atheist nation???!!!???!!!

Thomas Paine - Revolutionary Patriot - despised by intolerant Christians for not being Christian enough for them.,

One basic argument against Christian Nationalism is that Protestant Christianity’s mainstream preachers and followers beliefs intersected with the very profound influence of the secular Age of Reason. And it worked. That is what culminated in the founding of the United States of America.

The Christian side of that Joint Venture was not sufficient enough to label or the entire creation a Christian Nation with its most precious religious freedom’s protections for patriots like Thomas Paine who rejected the dominant religion of his time.

The collision between faith and reason in pre-Revolution America forever changed Christianity in a most profound way. All for the good of mankind.

Most of the Men of Reason, at the critical time of American history, did not lose the utmost respect for the moral civilizing impact that Protestantism had on keeping order among the population. They knew that traditional religion was needed to build a great nation. Reason did not dictate opposition to the church.

Jefferson, Paine and Ethan Allen were the exceptions of that.

This is difficult to explain to people who want faith and faith alone to be the spark and fire of the Revolution and founding. That’s not even half true.

I want to introduce another one of the heroes and great patriots of revolutionary time that some credit with being at the top of the list of persuading the Christian population to revolt and fight a war against a King that embodied God’s rule on earth.

This is Thomas Paine. He wrote the AGE OF REASON.

The Age of Reason - Wikipedia

Thomas Paine (born Thomas Pain[1]) (February 9, 1737 [O.S. January 29, 1736][Note 1] – June 8, 1809) was an English-born American political activist, philosopher, political theorist, and revolutionary. He authored the two most influential pamphlets at the start of the American Revolution and inspired the patriots in 1776 to declare independence from Great Britain.[2] His ideas reflected Enlightenment-era ideals of transnational human rights.[3] Historian Saul K. Padover described him as "a corsetmaker by trade, a journalist by profession, and a propagandist by inclination".[4]

Thomas Paine



Portrait by Laurent Dabos (c. 1792)

Born
Thomas Pain
February 9, 1737

Thetford, Norfolk, Great Britain

Died June 8, 1809(aged 72)

New York City, United States

Spouse(s)

Mary Lambert (m. 1759)
Elizabeth Ollive
(m. 1771; separated 1774)

Era Age of Enlightenment

School Liberalism

Republicanism

Main interests

Politics, ethics, religion
Influences

• Jacobin, Voltaire, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, John Locke, Religious Society of Friends, Montesquieu, Benjamin Franklin

Influenced

• Thomas Jefferson, William Godwin, Mary Wollstonecraft, Pierre Victurnien Vergniaud, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Edison, Karl Marx, Sigmund Freud, Charles Darwin, Friedrich Nietzsche, Jyotirao Phule, Moncure D. Conway, Bertrand Russell, Christopher Hitchens, Robert G. Ingersoll

Signature



When you identify America as a Christian Nation you stamp out many of the greatest minds and patriots like Thomas Paine whom many sin and salvation Christians labeled as an Atheist for writing things like the Age of Reason.

 

[BreezeWood]

AGREE? DISAGREE? SUGGESTIONS?

Can we all kick the atheists out and send them on a slow to boat to China, an atheist country (!)?

Maybe that country was founded as an atheist nation???!!!???!!!

.

Can we all kick the atheists out and send them on a slow to boat to China, an atheist country (!)?

Maybe that country was founded as an atheist nation???!!!???!!!

So, in your mind, ANY reference to any religion, is a violation of non-religious citizens rights?

the christian nationalist are not content to exercise their religious preference among themselves but insist by corrosion to force their their views to be accepted unwillingly by a public at large that is protected from such intrusion by their constitution from the legislative enactments christianity has issued against them.

.
the christian nationalist disguise their political objectives using a false religion 4th century document to not only deceive the present societies they wish to control but also invalidate the true events of the 1st century liberation theology they likewise oppose - of self determination over their tyrannical control.
.
"In God we trust"
.
they demand to kneel before their book of forgeries as they have chosen themselves irregardless its errant message detrimental to society as a whole -

and skirt the founding principles of this nation and the emphasis's of minority rights as sacrosanct of liberties afforded to all citizens in regards to their lawful personal persuasions.