America today, and Rome, and Julius Ceasar...

[Coyote]

What? How is this relevant?

The institutions that govern democracy, as in a representative form of government, are largely dependent on popularly accepted but unwritten rules of behavior And convention. I did not realize until the Trump presidency, how they might be under attack by a populist leader.

This is a really good historica comparison (not like the shallow Hitler comparisons). The reason I think it is good is it stresses the inherent fragility of a system so dependent on a willingness to abide by commonly accepted norms and rules.

I would love if folks would actually read the article...it is worth it, even if you don’t agree.

America Is Eerily Retracing Rome’s Steps to a Fall. Will It Turn Around Before It’s Too Late?

Two thousand years ago, the famous Republic had a chance to reject a dangerous populist. It failed, and the rest is history.

www.politico.com

It concludes with:

These parallels come with a warning for the United States today: Two thousand years ago, many establishment Romans misunderstood the damage that Caesar was doing to the state’s political culture and institutions, and a nervously asserted sense of complacency continued in certain circles. History’s most famous orator, Cicero, decried this complacency—the belief that the damage of “one bad consul” could always be undone. In Rome, that was far from the case: Caesar left office legitimized, emboldened and—even in his absence—an ever-present force in the political landscape of Republican Rome. When he departed for the provinces, the rot of authoritarian populism had already set in. Rome fell almost immediately into civic violence as new leaders of the Caesarean ideology emerged, jostling for power. Even Cicero, whose political philosophy was constructed on the idea of consensus within the state, began to speak of society “divided in two.” By failing to curtail Caesar, and failing to address the deep social and structural inequalities driving ordinary supporters into his arms, the establishment ensured that the tribal rhetoric espoused by Caesar at the contio translated into a destructive and pervasive authoritarian ideology.​

​

With violence now a legitimate form of political expression, when Caesar returned to Rome, it was at the head of an army. The environment of strongman politics he helped to create left civil war and violence as the only effective means of political change—and ultimately sealed his own fate. After he had himself appointed “Dictator for Life,” there was no longer a legitimate political avenue by which to remove him: The result, famously, was a bloody tyrannicide in the Senate house itself. But even with his death, transformation of Rome’s political culture into the rule of the strong could not be reversed, as new contenders emerged for yet another round of brutal civil wars that finally extinguished the Republic once and for all.​

 

[jwoodie]

Are you suggesting that Trump will appoint himself "Dictator for Life?"

 

[Coyote]

Are you suggesting that Trump will appoint himself "Dictator for Life?"

Thanks for not reading the article...either that or nuance obviously escapes you.

 

[JGalt]

Not sure, but I just ate so much dinner I wish there was a good old fashioned Roman vomitorium nearby, so I could puke it up.

Burp.

 

[Imissbush]

What? How is this relevant?

The institutions that govern democracy, as in a representative form of government, are largely dependent on popularly accepted but unwritten rules of behavior And convention. I did not realize until the Trump presidency, how they might be under attack by a populist leader.

This is a really good historica comparison (not like the shallow Hitler comparisons). The reason I think it is good is it stresses the inherent fragility of a system so dependent on a willingness to abide by commonly accepted norms and rules.

I would love if folks would actually read the article...it is worth it, even if you don’t agree.

America Is Eerily Retracing Rome’s Steps to a Fall. Will It Turn Around Before It’s Too Late?

Two thousand years ago, the famous Republic had a chance to reject a dangerous populist. It failed, and the rest is history.

www.politico.com

It concludes with:

These parallels come with a warning for the United States today: Two thousand years ago, many establishment Romans misunderstood the damage that Caesar was doing to the state’s political culture and institutions, and a nervously asserted sense of complacency continued in certain circles. History’s most famous orator, Cicero, decried this complacency—the belief that the damage of “one bad consul” could always be undone. In Rome, that was far from the case: Caesar left office legitimized, emboldened and—even in his absence—an ever-present force in the political landscape of Republican Rome. When he departed for the provinces, the rot of authoritarian populism had already set in. Rome fell almost immediately into civic violence as new leaders of the Caesarean ideology emerged, jostling for power. Even Cicero, whose political philosophy was constructed on the idea of consensus within the state, began to speak of society “divided in two.” By failing to curtail Caesar, and failing to address the deep social and structural inequalities driving ordinary supporters into his arms, the establishment ensured that the tribal rhetoric espoused by Caesar at the contio translated into a destructive and pervasive authoritarian ideology.​

​

With violence now a legitimate form of political expression, when Caesar returned to Rome, it was at the head of an army. The environment of strongman politics he helped to create left civil war and violence as the only effective means of political change—and ultimately sealed his own fate. After he had himself appointed “Dictator for Life,” there was no longer a legitimate political avenue by which to remove him: The result, famously, was a bloody tyrannicide in the Senate house itself. But even with his death, transformation of Rome’s political culture into the rule of the strong could not be reversed, as new contenders emerged for yet another round of brutal civil wars that finally extinguished the Republic once and for all.​

Rome was a Slave society, with no colleges, no corporations, no bond market, no science and really no stable permanent borders

 

[Thinker101]

What? How is this relevant?

The institutions that govern democracy, as in a representative form of government, are largely dependent on popularly accepted but unwritten rules of behavior And convention. I did not realize until the Trump presidency, how they might be under attack by a populist leader.

This is a really good historica comparison (not like the shallow Hitler comparisons). The reason I think it is good is it stresses the inherent fragility of a system so dependent on a willingness to abide by commonly accepted norms and rules.

I would love if folks would actually read the article...it is worth it, even if you don’t agree.

America Is Eerily Retracing Rome’s Steps to a Fall. Will It Turn Around Before It’s Too Late?

Two thousand years ago, the famous Republic had a chance to reject a dangerous populist. It failed, and the rest is history.

www.politico.com

It concludes with:

These parallels come with a warning for the United States today: Two thousand years ago, many establishment Romans misunderstood the damage that Caesar was doing to the state’s political culture and institutions, and a nervously asserted sense of complacency continued in certain circles. History’s most famous orator, Cicero, decried this complacency—the belief that the damage of “one bad consul” could always be undone. In Rome, that was far from the case: Caesar left office legitimized, emboldened and—even in his absence—an ever-present force in the political landscape of Republican Rome. When he departed for the provinces, the rot of authoritarian populism had already set in. Rome fell almost immediately into civic violence as new leaders of the Caesarean ideology emerged, jostling for power. Even Cicero, whose political philosophy was constructed on the idea of consensus within the state, began to speak of society “divided in two.” By failing to curtail Caesar, and failing to address the deep social and structural inequalities driving ordinary supporters into his arms, the establishment ensured that the tribal rhetoric espoused by Caesar at the contio translated into a destructive and pervasive authoritarian ideology.​

​

With violence now a legitimate form of political expression, when Caesar returned to Rome, it was at the head of an army. The environment of strongman politics he helped to create left civil war and violence as the only effective means of political change—and ultimately sealed his own fate. After he had himself appointed “Dictator for Life,” there was no longer a legitimate political avenue by which to remove him: The result, famously, was a bloody tyrannicide in the Senate house itself. But even with his death, transformation of Rome’s political culture into the rule of the strong could not be reversed, as new contenders emerged for yet another round of brutal civil wars that finally extinguished the Republic once and for all.​

Rome was a Slave society, with no colleges, no corporations, no bond market, no science and really no stable permanent borders

Yep, a lot like what Dems want to turn us into.

 

[Imissbush]

What? How is this relevant?

The institutions that govern democracy, as in a representative form of government, are largely dependent on popularly accepted but unwritten rules of behavior And convention. I did not realize until the Trump presidency, how they might be under attack by a populist leader.

This is a really good historica comparison (not like the shallow Hitler comparisons). The reason I think it is good is it stresses the inherent fragility of a system so dependent on a willingness to abide by commonly accepted norms and rules.

I would love if folks would actually read the article...it is worth it, even if you don’t agree.

America Is Eerily Retracing Rome’s Steps to a Fall. Will It Turn Around Before It’s Too Late?

Two thousand years ago, the famous Republic had a chance to reject a dangerous populist. It failed, and the rest is history.

www.politico.com

It concludes with:

These parallels come with a warning for the United States today: Two thousand years ago, many establishment Romans misunderstood the damage that Caesar was doing to the state’s political culture and institutions, and a nervously asserted sense of complacency continued in certain circles. History’s most famous orator, Cicero, decried this complacency—the belief that the damage of “one bad consul” could always be undone. In Rome, that was far from the case: Caesar left office legitimized, emboldened and—even in his absence—an ever-present force in the political landscape of Republican Rome. When he departed for the provinces, the rot of authoritarian populism had already set in. Rome fell almost immediately into civic violence as new leaders of the Caesarean ideology emerged, jostling for power. Even Cicero, whose political philosophy was constructed on the idea of consensus within the state, began to speak of society “divided in two.” By failing to curtail Caesar, and failing to address the deep social and structural inequalities driving ordinary supporters into his arms, the establishment ensured that the tribal rhetoric espoused by Caesar at the contio translated into a destructive and pervasive authoritarian ideology.​

​

With violence now a legitimate form of political expression, when Caesar returned to Rome, it was at the head of an army. The environment of strongman politics he helped to create left civil war and violence as the only effective means of political change—and ultimately sealed his own fate. After he had himself appointed “Dictator for Life,” there was no longer a legitimate political avenue by which to remove him: The result, famously, was a bloody tyrannicide in the Senate house itself. But even with his death, transformation of Rome’s political culture into the rule of the strong could not be reversed, as new contenders emerged for yet another round of brutal civil wars that finally extinguished the Republic once and for all.​

Rome was a Slave society, with no colleges, no corporations, no bond market, no science and really no stable permanent borders

Yep, a lot like what Dems want to turn us into.

Wow, what an ignorant statement. No college degree?

 

[xband]

What? How is this relevant?

The institutions that govern democracy, as in a representative form of government, are largely dependent on popularly accepted but unwritten rules of behavior And convention. I did not realize until the Trump presidency, how they might be under attack by a populist leader.

This is a really good historica comparison (not like the shallow Hitler comparisons). The reason I think it is good is it stresses the inherent fragility of a system so dependent on a willingness to abide by commonly accepted norms and rules.

I would love if folks would actually read the article...it is worth it, even if you don’t agree.

America Is Eerily Retracing Rome’s Steps to a Fall. Will It Turn Around Before It’s Too Late?

Two thousand years ago, the famous Republic had a chance to reject a dangerous populist. It failed, and the rest is history.

www.politico.com

It concludes with:

These parallels come with a warning for the United States today: Two thousand years ago, many establishment Romans misunderstood the damage that Caesar was doing to the state’s political culture and institutions, and a nervously asserted sense of complacency continued in certain circles. History’s most famous orator, Cicero, decried this complacency—the belief that the damage of “one bad consul” could always be undone. In Rome, that was far from the case: Caesar left office legitimized, emboldened and—even in his absence—an ever-present force in the political landscape of Republican Rome. When he departed for the provinces, the rot of authoritarian populism had already set in. Rome fell almost immediately into civic violence as new leaders of the Caesarean ideology emerged, jostling for power. Even Cicero, whose political philosophy was constructed on the idea of consensus within the state, began to speak of society “divided in two.” By failing to curtail Caesar, and failing to address the deep social and structural inequalities driving ordinary supporters into his arms, the establishment ensured that the tribal rhetoric espoused by Caesar at the contio translated into a destructive and pervasive authoritarian ideology.​

​

With violence now a legitimate form of political expression, when Caesar returned to Rome, it was at the head of an army. The environment of strongman politics he helped to create left civil war and violence as the only effective means of political change—and ultimately sealed his own fate. After he had himself appointed “Dictator for Life,” there was no longer a legitimate political avenue by which to remove him: The result, famously, was a bloody tyrannicide in the Senate house itself. But even with his death, transformation of Rome’s political culture into the rule of the strong could not be reversed, as new contenders emerged for yet another round of brutal civil wars that finally extinguished the Republic once and for all.​

Rome was a Slave society, with no colleges, no corporations, no bond market, no science and really nDonald's

What? How is this relevant?

The institutions that govern democracy, as in a representative form of government, are largely dependent on popularly accepted but unwritten rules of behavior And convention. I did not realize until the Trump presidency, how they might be under attack by a populist leader.

This is a really good historica comparison (not like the shallow Hitler comparisons). The reason I think it is good is it stresses the inherent fragility of a system so dependent on a willingness to abide by commonly accepted norms and rules.

I would love if folks would actually read the article...it is worth it, even if you don’t agree.

America Is Eerily Retracing Rome’s Steps to a Fall. Will It Turn Around Before It’s Too Late?

Two thousand years ago, the famous Republic had a chance to reject a dangerous populist. It failed, and the rest is history.

www.politico.com

It concludes with:

These parallels come with a warning for the United States today: Two thousand years ago, many establishment Romans misunderstood the damage that Caesar was doing to the state’s political culture and institutions, and a nervously asserted sense of complacency continued in certain circles. History’s most famous orator, Cicero, decried this complacency—the belief that the damage of “one bad consul” could always be undone. In Rome, that was far from the case: Caesar left office legitimized, emboldened and—even in his absence—an ever-present force in the political landscape of Republican Rome. When he departed for the provinces, the rot of authoritarian populism had already set in. Rome fell almost immediately into civic violence as new leaders of the Caesarean ideology emerged, jostling for power. Even Cicero, whose political philosophy was constructed on the idea of consensus within the state, began to speak of society “divided in two.” By failing to curtail Caesar, and failing to address the deep social and structural inequalities driving ordinary supporters into his arms, the establishment ensured that the tribal rhetoric espoused by Caesar at the contio translated into a destructive and pervasive authoritarian ideology.​

​

With violence now a legitimate form of political expression, when Caesar returned to Rome, it was at the head of an army. The environment of strongman politics he helped to create left civil war and violence as the only effective means of political change—and ultimately sealed his own fate. After he had himself appointed “Dictator for Life,” there was no longer a legitimate political avenue by which to remove him: The result, famously, was a bloody tyrannicide in the Senate house itself. But even with his death, transformation of Rome’s political culture into the rule of the strong could not be reversed, as new contenders emerged for yet another round of brutal civil wars that finally extinguished the Republic once and for all.​

Rome was a Slave society, with no colleges, no corporations, no bond market, no science and really no stable permanent borders

Yep, a lot like what Dems want to turn us into.

Wow, what an ignorant statement. No college degree?

A college degree has merit if you want to work the McDonald's cash register in New England.

 

[Unkotare]

What? How is this relevant?

The institutions that govern democracy, as in a representative form of government, are largely dependent on popularly accepted but unwritten rules of behavior And convention. I did not realize until the Trump presidency, how they might be under attack by a populist leader.

This is a really good historica comparison (not like the shallow Hitler comparisons). The reason I think it is good is it stresses the inherent fragility of a system so dependent on a willingness to abide by commonly accepted norms and rules.

I would love if folks would actually read the article...it is worth it, even if you don’t agree.

America Is Eerily Retracing Rome’s Steps to a Fall. Will It Turn Around Before It’s Too Late?

Two thousand years ago, the famous Republic had a chance to reject a dangerous populist. It failed, and the rest is history.

www.politico.com

It concludes with:

These parallels come with a warning for the United States today: Two thousand years ago, many establishment Romans misunderstood the damage that Caesar was doing to the state’s political culture and institutions, and a nervously asserted sense of complacency continued in certain circles. History’s most famous orator, Cicero, decried this complacency—the belief that the damage of “one bad consul” could always be undone. In Rome, that was far from the case: Caesar left office legitimized, emboldened and—even in his absence—an ever-present force in the political landscape of Republican Rome. When he departed for the provinces, the rot of authoritarian populism had already set in. Rome fell almost immediately into civic violence as new leaders of the Caesarean ideology emerged, jostling for power. Even Cicero, whose political philosophy was constructed on the idea of consensus within the state, began to speak of society “divided in two.” By failing to curtail Caesar, and failing to address the deep social and structural inequalities driving ordinary supporters into his arms, the establishment ensured that the tribal rhetoric espoused by Caesar at the contio translated into a destructive and pervasive authoritarian ideology.​

​

With violence now a legitimate form of political expression, when Caesar returned to Rome, it was at the head of an army. The environment of strongman politics he helped to create left civil war and violence as the only effective means of political change—and ultimately sealed his own fate. After he had himself appointed “Dictator for Life,” there was no longer a legitimate political avenue by which to remove him: The result, famously, was a bloody tyrannicide in the Senate house itself. But even with his death, transformation of Rome’s political culture into the rule of the strong could not be reversed, as new contenders emerged for yet another round of brutal civil wars that finally extinguished the Republic once and for all.​

Rome was a Slave society, with no colleges, no corporations, no bond market, no science and really no stable permanent borders

Yep, a lot like what Dems want to turn us into.

Wow, what an ignorant statement. No college degree?

Oh no, not another one of these....

 

[Moonglow]

Are you suggesting that Trump will appoint himself "Dictator for Life?"

Why, Caesar didn't..

 

[Moonglow]

What? How is this relevant?

The institutions that govern democracy, as in a representative form of government, are largely dependent on popularly accepted but unwritten rules of behavior And convention. I did not realize until the Trump presidency, how they might be under attack by a populist leader.

This is a really good historica comparison (not like the shallow Hitler comparisons). The reason I think it is good is it stresses the inherent fragility of a system so dependent on a willingness to abide by commonly accepted norms and rules.

I would love if folks would actually read the article...it is worth it, even if you don’t agree.

America Is Eerily Retracing Rome’s Steps to a Fall. Will It Turn Around Before It’s Too Late?

Two thousand years ago, the famous Republic had a chance to reject a dangerous populist. It failed, and the rest is history.

www.politico.com

It concludes with:

These parallels come with a warning for the United States today: Two thousand years ago, many establishment Romans misunderstood the damage that Caesar was doing to the state’s political culture and institutions, and a nervously asserted sense of complacency continued in certain circles. History’s most famous orator, Cicero, decried this complacency—the belief that the damage of “one bad consul” could always be undone. In Rome, that was far from the case: Caesar left office legitimized, emboldened and—even in his absence—an ever-present force in the political landscape of Republican Rome. When he departed for the provinces, the rot of authoritarian populism had already set in. Rome fell almost immediately into civic violence as new leaders of the Caesarean ideology emerged, jostling for power. Even Cicero, whose political philosophy was constructed on the idea of consensus within the state, began to speak of society “divided in two.” By failing to curtail Caesar, and failing to address the deep social and structural inequalities driving ordinary supporters into his arms, the establishment ensured that the tribal rhetoric espoused by Caesar at the contio translated into a destructive and pervasive authoritarian ideology.​

​

With violence now a legitimate form of political expression, when Caesar returned to Rome, it was at the head of an army. The environment of strongman politics he helped to create left civil war and violence as the only effective means of political change—and ultimately sealed his own fate. After he had himself appointed “Dictator for Life,” there was no longer a legitimate political avenue by which to remove him: The result, famously, was a bloody tyrannicide in the Senate house itself. But even with his death, transformation of Rome’s political culture into the rule of the strong could not be reversed, as new contenders emerged for yet another round of brutal civil wars that finally extinguished the Republic once and for all.​

Rome was a Slave society, with no colleges, no corporations, no bond market, no science and really no stable permanent borders

Civil collegia[edit]
Collegia could function as guilds, social clubs, or burial societies; in practice, in ancient Rome, they sometimes became organized bodies of local businessmen and even criminals, who ran the mercantile/criminal activities in a given urban region (similar to a rione). The organization of a collegium was often modeled on that of civic governing bodies, the Senate of Rome being the epitome. The meeting hall was often known as the curia, the same term as that applied to that of the Roman Senate.

Collegium (ancient Rome) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[xband]

Are you suggesting that Trump will appoint himself "Dictator for Life?"

Why, Caesar didn't..

Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon River but wept when he saw a statue of Alexander the Great in Spain.

 

[Moonglow]

Let's face it, Julius Caesar was a sharp Kat that was always busy as a beaver and he was good at his job(s) but he bucked the society of governance which was also head of religion, which meant that they could overlook his abuse of govt. but the moral implications is what killed him...

 

[Moonglow]

Are you suggesting that Trump will appoint himself "Dictator for Life?"

Why, Caesar didn't..

Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon River but wept when he saw a statue of Alexander the Great in Spain.

He was also short.

 

[22lcidw]

Are you suggesting that Trump will appoint himself "Dictator for Life?"

Why, Caesar didn't..

The point is, that things do not have to be as abrasive as they are. All of the social media and hundreds of TV stations should be open up minds. Instead people seem to be being brainwashed on ideologies. I see on paper that socialism is great. I see in practice, no so great. We also are competing with other nations and China , Russia for hegemony rights. I have multiple times try to remind people of this. China has a plan and an endless amount of potential workers who will do work cheaper then us and are hungry to be in middle class living. In a war we both may lose much of our hardware. But they can build hardware faster. It is possible to from Conventional to Nuke by us out of necessity. Of course our best weapons may be many times better negating their quick manufacturing advantage. This is important in our nation and its security. We live with advantages of being number one and the world's reserve currency even though that is dropping as a percentage. If China becomes the reserve currency it will not be nice here. Politics will be quite different here. We will be told what to do more often then not.

 

[Moonglow]

Are you suggesting that Trump will appoint himself "Dictator for Life?"

Why, Caesar didn't..

The point is, that things do not have to be as abrasive as they are. All of the social media and hundreds of TV stations should be open up minds. Instead people seem to be being brainwashed on ideologies. I see on paper that socialism is great. I see in practice, no so great. We also are competing with other nations and China , Russia for hegemony rights. I have multiple times try to remind people of this. China has a plan and an endless amount of potential workers who will do work cheaper then us and are hungry to be in middle class living. In a war we both may lose much of our hardware. But they can build hardware faster. It is possible to from Conventional to Nuke by us out of necessity. Of course our best weapons may be many times better negating their quick manufacturing advantage. This is important in our nation and its security. We live with advantages of being number one and the world's reserve currency even though that is dropping as a percentage. If China becomes the reserve currency it will not be nice here. Politics will be quite different here. We will be told what to do more often then not.

TV and the industries that support it are and always have had the intention of the manipulation of information to create more consumerism and increase profit margins.. It is not about anything else. Where you get this idea that greed thinks in any other terms besides corrupting the individual is a daydream at best.

 

[MisterBeale]

What? How is this relevant?

The institutions that govern democracy, as in a representative form of government, are largely dependent on popularly accepted but unwritten rules of behavior And convention. I did not realize until the Trump presidency, how they might be under attack by a populist leader.

This is a really good historica comparison (not like the shallow Hitler comparisons). The reason I think it is good is it stresses the inherent fragility of a system so dependent on a willingness to abide by commonly accepted norms and rules.

I would love if folks would actually read the article...it is worth it, even if you don’t agree.

America Is Eerily Retracing Rome’s Steps to a Fall. Will It Turn Around Before It’s Too Late?

Two thousand years ago, the famous Republic had a chance to reject a dangerous populist. It failed, and the rest is history.

www.politico.com

It concludes with:

These parallels come with a warning for the United States today: Two thousand years ago, many establishment Romans misunderstood the damage that Caesar was doing to the state’s political culture and institutions, and a nervously asserted sense of complacency continued in certain circles. History’s most famous orator, Cicero, decried this complacency—the belief that the damage of “one bad consul” could always be undone. In Rome, that was far from the case: Caesar left office legitimized, emboldened and—even in his absence—an ever-present force in the political landscape of Republican Rome. When he departed for the provinces, the rot of authoritarian populism had already set in. Rome fell almost immediately into civic violence as new leaders of the Caesarean ideology emerged, jostling for power. Even Cicero, whose political philosophy was constructed on the idea of consensus within the state, began to speak of society “divided in two.” By failing to curtail Caesar, and failing to address the deep social and structural inequalities driving ordinary supporters into his arms, the establishment ensured that the tribal rhetoric espoused by Caesar at the contio translated into a destructive and pervasive authoritarian ideology.​

​

With violence now a legitimate form of political expression, when Caesar returned to Rome, it was at the head of an army. The environment of strongman politics he helped to create left civil war and violence as the only effective means of political change—and ultimately sealed his own fate. After he had himself appointed “Dictator for Life,” there was no longer a legitimate political avenue by which to remove him: The result, famously, was a bloody tyrannicide in the Senate house itself. But even with his death, transformation of Rome’s political culture into the rule of the strong could not be reversed, as new contenders emerged for yet another round of brutal civil wars that finally extinguished the Republic once and for all.​

Yeah, that's pretty close.

It leaves out the importation of other cultures, AND MASSES OF CHEAP LABOR, SLAVES, non-citizens, the disintegration of the Roman culture, the lack of citizenship, the basic destruction of the economy that led to what led to Caesar's rise. . . remember, Ceasar was a SYMPTOM, not the cause. . .

This Politico article wants to pin this disintegration on Ceasar, or Trump, as a cause of the loss of the Republic, they are, but a symptom. . . this is what you are missing.

 

[Coyote]

What? How is this relevant?

The institutions that govern democracy, as in a representative form of government, are largely dependent on popularly accepted but unwritten rules of behavior And convention. I did not realize until the Trump presidency, how they might be under attack by a populist leader.

This is a really good historica comparison (not like the shallow Hitler comparisons). The reason I think it is good is it stresses the inherent fragility of a system so dependent on a willingness to abide by commonly accepted norms and rules.

I would love if folks would actually read the article...it is worth it, even if you don’t agree.

America Is Eerily Retracing Rome’s Steps to a Fall. Will It Turn Around Before It’s Too Late?

Two thousand years ago, the famous Republic had a chance to reject a dangerous populist. It failed, and the rest is history.

www.politico.com

It concludes with:

These parallels come with a warning for the United States today: Two thousand years ago, many establishment Romans misunderstood the damage that Caesar was doing to the state’s political culture and institutions, and a nervously asserted sense of complacency continued in certain circles. History’s most famous orator, Cicero, decried this complacency—the belief that the damage of “one bad consul” could always be undone. In Rome, that was far from the case: Caesar left office legitimized, emboldened and—even in his absence—an ever-present force in the political landscape of Republican Rome. When he departed for the provinces, the rot of authoritarian populism had already set in. Rome fell almost immediately into civic violence as new leaders of the Caesarean ideology emerged, jostling for power. Even Cicero, whose political philosophy was constructed on the idea of consensus within the state, began to speak of society “divided in two.” By failing to curtail Caesar, and failing to address the deep social and structural inequalities driving ordinary supporters into his arms, the establishment ensured that the tribal rhetoric espoused by Caesar at the contio translated into a destructive and pervasive authoritarian ideology.​

​

With violence now a legitimate form of political expression, when Caesar returned to Rome, it was at the head of an army. The environment of strongman politics he helped to create left civil war and violence as the only effective means of political change—and ultimately sealed his own fate. After he had himself appointed “Dictator for Life,” there was no longer a legitimate political avenue by which to remove him: The result, famously, was a bloody tyrannicide in the Senate house itself. But even with his death, transformation of Rome’s political culture into the rule of the strong could not be reversed, as new contenders emerged for yet another round of brutal civil wars that finally extinguished the Republic once and for all.​

Yeah, that's pretty close.

It leaves out the importation of other cultures, AND MASSES OF CHEAP LABOR, SLAVES, non-citizens, the disintegration of the Roman culture, the lack of citizenship, the basic destruction of the economy that led to what led to Caesar's rise. . . remember, Ceasar was a SYMPTOM, not the cause. . .

This Politico article wants to pin this disintegration on Ceasar, or Trump, as a cause of the loss of the Republic, they are, but a symptom. . . this is what you are missing.

Well... I think you are missing two key points: the inherent fragility of systems and institutions that are built upon and depend on commonly accepted and agreed upon norms and conduct for on, and the ability of a populist to disrupt them, to point of eventual disintegration.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Sorry, Coyote. I sometimes appreciate Politico, but this is the lamest article I ever saw them publish. Totally artificial, ahistorical and self-serving partisan fantasyzing. Won’t go into how many ways it is based on a false history of Rome, how poor the analogies are. All that is not worth going into here. Trump compared to Julius Caesar? Preposterous.

P.S. None of the above changes my view of Trump, which is almost entirely negative.

 

[Yarddog]

Not sure, but I just ate so much dinner I wish there was a good old fashioned Roman vomitorium nearby, so I could puke it up.

Burp.

Just wash it down with one of these