America should change sides and support Palestine.

[eots]

The land provided for the Jews was owned and administered by France. After the war France gave it to the displaced Jews

France owned the land..who did the purchase it from ?

because of the way they were treated for no reason. Jews from around the world applied to become members of the new (and old in a biblical sense) Israel. You had to start with nothing and build a Kibutz - a town from the land with farms to feed the people. You had to take on a Hebrew name and there were many who died making the first Kibutz's. There was no infrastructure, roads, running water, electricity, sewage - nothing. It all had to be made out of what the desert offered.

Did any of the indigenous people offer aid ?

I don't see the Palistinians trying to do that - they want high paying jobs so they can buy a home. The Israelis earned that land in more ways than one.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqJ-JR_vBo0]THIS IS MY LAND - YouTube[/ame]

 

[craner]

Well I see the author of this BS is banned....thats the best reply to this insane thread.

 

[Colin]

The land provided for the Jews was owned and administered by France. After the war France gave it to the displaced Jews because of the way they were treated for no reason. Jews from around the world applied to become members of the new (and old in a biblical sense) Israel. You had to start with nothing and build a Kibutz - a town from the land with farms to feed the people. You had to take on a Hebrew name and there were many who died making the first Kibutz's. There was no infrastructure, roads, running water, electricity, sewage - nothing. It all had to be made out of what the desert offered.

I don't see the Palistinians trying to do that - they want high paying jobs so they can buy a home. The Israelis earned that land in more ways than one.

I don't know where you learned your history, but it's wrong. After the First World War, the League of Nations granted Britain and France control over former Ottoman territories. France was given the mandate over Syria and Britain got the mandate over what is now Israel, the West Bank, The Gaza Strip and Jordan. The British divided their mandate in two. East of the River Jordan became the Emirates of Transjordan and rule was given to prince Faysal's brother, Abdullah. West of the Jordan became the Palestine mandate and remained under British control.

It was Britain who promised the Jews a homeland under the Balfour Declaration of 1917. France had nothing to do with it.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The land provided for the Jews was owned and administered by France. After the war France gave it to the displaced Jews because of the way they were treated for no reason. Jews from around the world applied to become members of the new (and old in a biblical sense) Israel. You had to start with nothing and build a Kibutz - a town from the land with farms to feed the people. You had to take on a Hebrew name and there were many who died making the first Kibutz's. There was no infrastructure, roads, running water, electricity, sewage - nothing. It all had to be made out of what the desert offered.

I don't see the Palistinians trying to do that - they want high paying jobs so they can buy a home. The Israelis earned that land in more ways than one.

I don't know where you learned your history, but it's wrong. After the First World War, the League of Nations granted Britain and France control over former Ottoman territories. France was given the mandate over Syria and Britain got the mandate over what is now Israel, the West Bank, The Gaza Strip and Jordan. The British divided their mandate in two. East of the River Jordan became the Emirates of Transjordan and rule was given to prince Faysal's brother, Abdullah. West of the Jordan became the Palestine mandate and remained under British control.

It was Britain who promised the Jews a homeland under the Balfour Declaration of 1917. France had nothing to do with it.

That is true. Palestine was divided into two states in 1922 (Palestine and Transjordan) and the international borders were defined. Britain promised the Arabs an independent state and then promises the Zionists a homeland for the Jews.

Now, this homeland was not to be a Jewish state. The mandate, as approved by the League of Nations, was to facilitate the Immigration of Jews and to assist them in obtaining Palestinian citizenship. The government was to include the Arabs and the Jews.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Soon all nations will oppose Israel. I've read the end of the book.

 

[P@triot]

I've popped this in 'clean debate' in an attempt to seriously chat about US middle eastern policy.

America should change sides and support Palestine.

Imagine the advantages:

Way cheaper than supporting Israel.
Only one enemy in the middle east
No worries about oil supply.

Can anyone suggest why the US supporting Palestine has a downside?

You mean other than supporting terrorists who would still hate us and attempt to kill us? And that's just 1 of about a million "downsides" I can think of.

America should do what's RIGHT. And for the record, we have zero "worries" about oil supply. We have enough oil in Alaska, Texas, and Oklahoma to keep us going for a LONG time (especially Alaska).

 

[SAYIT]

The land provided for the Jews was owned and administered by France. After the war France gave it to the displaced Jews because of the way they were treated for no reason. Jews from around the world applied to become members of the new (and old in a biblical sense) Israel. You had to start with nothing and build a Kibutz - a town from the land with farms to feed the people. You had to take on a Hebrew name and there were many who died making the first Kibutz's. There was no infrastructure, roads, running water, electricity, sewage - nothing. It all had to be made out of what the desert offered.

I don't see the Palistinians trying to do that - they want high paying jobs so they can buy a home. The Israelis earned that land in more ways than one.

I don't know where you learned your history, but it's wrong. After the First World War, the League of Nations granted Britain and France control over former Ottoman territories. France was given the mandate over Syria and Britain got the mandate over what is now Israel, the West Bank, The Gaza Strip and Jordan. The British divided their mandate in two. East of the River Jordan became the Emirates of Transjordan and rule was given to prince Faysal's brother, Abdullah. West of the Jordan became the Palestine mandate and remained under British control.

It was Britain who promised the Jews a homeland under the Balfour Declaration of 1917. France had nothing to do with it.

That is true. Palestine was divided into two states in 1922 (Palestine and Transjordan) and the international borders were defined. Britain promised the Arabs an independent state and then promises the Zionists a homeland for the Jews.

Now, this homeland was not to be a Jewish state. The mandate, as approved by the League of Nations, was to facilitate the Immigration of Jews and to assist them in obtaining Palestinian citizenship. The government was to include the Arabs and the Jews.

And it does.
Among Israel's nearly 8 million people are nearly 2mil non-Jewish citizens including over 1.5mil Arabs who not only have the right to vote for their gov't (and they do) but also the right to serve in that gov't (and they do).

 

[P F Tinmore]

I don't know where you learned your history, but it's wrong. After the First World War, the League of Nations granted Britain and France control over former Ottoman territories. France was given the mandate over Syria and Britain got the mandate over what is now Israel, the West Bank, The Gaza Strip and Jordan. The British divided their mandate in two. East of the River Jordan became the Emirates of Transjordan and rule was given to prince Faysal's brother, Abdullah. West of the Jordan became the Palestine mandate and remained under British control.

It was Britain who promised the Jews a homeland under the Balfour Declaration of 1917. France had nothing to do with it.

That is true. Palestine was divided into two states in 1922 (Palestine and Transjordan) and the international borders were defined. Britain promised the Arabs an independent state and then promises the Zionists a homeland for the Jews.

Now, this homeland was not to be a Jewish state. The mandate, as approved by the League of Nations, was to facilitate the Immigration of Jews and to assist them in obtaining Palestinian citizenship. The government was to include the Arabs and the Jews.

And it does.
Among Israel's nearly 8 million people is nearly 2mil non-Jewish citizens including over 1.5mil Arabs who not only have the right to vote for their gov't (and they do) but also the right to serve in that gov't (and they do).

Do those Arabs still own the same homes, land, and businesses that they owned before 1948

 

[SAYIT]

Gazans' are within their rights guaranteed by international law when they resist an illegal occupation; Israel violates those same laws by imposing an illegal occupation. As occupying power, Israel is clearly responsible for all the dead children on both sides of the conflict.

Why aren't you asking Israel to abide by the nearly 100 UNSC Resolutions calling for its withdrawal from the territories it currently occupies?

Hamas is a self-sustaining governing body, fully subject to the rules of war, humanitarian laws, and decent conduct of its military.

It is a direct violation to house military assets, ammunition, rockets, vehicles, troops, in areas that can be clearly delineated as 'civilian' enclaves. This is what is termed as a 'human shields'. A direct violation of all decency standards and applicable laws, and violates human rights.

Gazans are NOT resisting occupation when they indiscriminately launch un-guided or poorly guided missiles into civilian areas of another country. The deliberate attacking of civilians in any resistance is a violation of human rights and international law. Deaths that occur to civilians due to the placement of military assets in civilian enclaves or areas and boundaries that are clearly of a civilian nature are the responsibility of those who violate these laws.

As a violator of human rights, Geneva Convention protocols and international law, Hamas bears the entire burden of deaths incurred, both Israeli and Palestinian.

In fact, the launching of missiles that deliberately target civilian assets in Israel amount to nothing more than premeditated murder, not an act of resistance in any manner proscribed by civilized peoples.

These dead children are the result of Hamas.

the world thinks differently.

some israelis are afraid to leave their country for fear of a reverse mordechai vanunu.

HAMAS has been in a siege-like state for years. a blockade is an act of war...

According to the UN's 2011 Palmer report the blockade is legal.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...lYDADQ&usg=AFQjCNH4uIb0WdcQ3BwUvCF16u0yIYy8Rw

 

[SAYIT]

That is true. Palestine was divided into two states in 1922 (Palestine and Transjordan) and the international borders were defined. Britain promised the Arabs an independent state and then promises the Zionists a homeland for the Jews.

Now, this homeland was not to be a Jewish state. The mandate, as approved by the League of Nations, was to facilitate the Immigration of Jews and to assist them in obtaining Palestinian citizenship. The government was to include the Arabs and the Jews.

And it does.
Among Israel's nearly 8 million people is nearly 2mil non-Jewish citizens including over 1.5mil Arabs who not only have the right to vote for their gov't (and they do) but also the right to serve in that gov't (and they do).

Do those Arabs still own the same homes, land, and businesses that they owned before 1948

How many people anywhere own the same homes, land, and businesses that they owned before 1948? I know i don't. Do you?

 

[MHunterB]

I know that the Jews who lived in 'East Jerusalem' in 1947 got ethnically cleansed out of their homes, etc in '48 by the invading Jordanians.

 

[P F Tinmore]

And it does.
Among Israel's nearly 8 million people is nearly 2mil non-Jewish citizens including over 1.5mil Arabs who not only have the right to vote for their gov't (and they do) but also the right to serve in that gov't (and they do).

Do those Arabs still own the same homes, land, and businesses that they owned before 1948

How many people anywhere own the same homes, land, and businesses that they owned before 1948? I know i don't. Do you?

Deflection.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I know that the Jews who lived in 'East Jerusalem' in 1947 got ethnically cleansed out of their homes, etc in '48 by the invading Jordanians.

That is true. Many Jews got screwed by Israel's war.

 

[MHunterB]

I know that the Jews who lived in 'East Jerusalem' in 1947 got ethnically cleansed out of their homes, etc in '48 by the invading Jordanians.

That is true. Many Jews got screwed by Israel's war.

It wasn't "Israel's" war - the Arab League decided to invade.

Jordan had no right to the territory they captured: they neither annexed it nor returned it to 'Palestinian' control - but somehow they should be absolved of any wrong-doing to anyone for those actions? How is exonerating Jordan reasonable?

 

[saveliberty]

Supporting Palestine should have some benefit to the US in order for this "discussion" to even have a point. Seems as if Israel has much more consistently supported US interests in the Middle East. I really see no point.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I know that the Jews who lived in 'East Jerusalem' in 1947 got ethnically cleansed out of their homes, etc in '48 by the invading Jordanians.

That is true. Many Jews got screwed by Israel's war.

It wasn't "Israel's" war - the Arab League decided to invade.

Jordan had no right to the territory they captured: they neither annexed it nor returned it to 'Palestinian' control - but somehow they should be absolved of any wrong-doing to anyone for those actions? How is exonerating Jordan reasonable?

Jordan was promised $3M a year for five years and the West Bank if they did not attack Israel in the 1948 war. But they failed to secure the rights of the Jews.

 

[MHunterB]

I found it interesting that nobody seemed to have noticed that the OP is from the UK and lives in Indonesia - not that there's anything wrong with either being a Brit or living in Indonesia, but neither one is the US.

Why does someone who's not an American feel that we should do what *they* think we should? We 'shouldn't' trust US interests to a foreign government.

 

[MHunterB]

That is true. Many Jews got screwed by Israel's war.

It wasn't "Israel's" war - the Arab League decided to invade.

Jordan had no right to the territory they captured: they neither annexed it nor returned it to 'Palestinian' control - but somehow they should be absolved of any wrong-doing to anyone for those actions? How is exonerating Jordan reasonable?

Jordan was promised $3M a year for five years and the West Bank if they did not attack Israel in the 1948 war. But they failed to secure the rights of the Jews.

Do you have an actual source for that other than AL propaganda? Who did the promising?

 

[patrickcaturday]

According to the UN's 2011 Palmer report the blockade is legal.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...lYDADQ&usg=AFQjCNH4uIb0WdcQ3BwUvCF16u0yIYy8Rw

Quote from Sayit[/QUOTE]


Can you tell me the exact portions of the Palmer Report that you are siting as the report is 105 pages long and while I have familiarized myself with it I do not agree with your conclusion. Throughout the Report the commission states that it is not a court and deliberately refrains from issuing legal opinions. It appears to me that the Report is more in the nature of an attempt to reconcile the differences between the Turkish summary of the events and the Israeli version.

 

[aSeattleConserv]

I've popped this in 'clean debate' in an attempt to seriously chat about US middle eastern policy.

America should change sides and support Palestine.

Imagine the advantages:

Way cheaper than supporting Israel.
Only one enemy in the middle east
No worries about oil supply.

Can anyone suggest why the US supporting Palestine has a downside?

With the amount of visits the pro Hamas Muzzie Brotherhood has had with B. Hussein Obama and Queen Hillary, what makes you think that we're not already?