America and its constitution..This is yet another gun debate

[tigerred59]

You can not in the one breath, wrap yourselves in the constitution, talkin bout you white folk and your love for guns...and not expect others to follow suit. This gunman, although Muslim, was America's child. His radical thoughts are no more different than those that appose abortions, minorities, children, movie goer's, transgender or Marthon runners..... All born and raised right here in good ol 2nd Amendment country. Unfortunately this will become a radical Islamic discussion rather than the real focus which is gun control and the NRA's hold on our politicians.

No one in their right mind should own high powered none stop shooting instruments unless your in law enforcement or the military and the fact average citizens are allowed to purchase such weapons are the sole reasons we have so many shootings of our citizens in this country and nothing once again will be done about this....because the discussion will once again be lost.

This was a hate crime against gays that will morph into a hate crime against muslims
Sandy Hook, a mental issue crime, that morphed into school safety and teachers carrying guns. This country will never ever face its own enemies and that's the NRA and politicians that refuse to discuss its impact on our society. High Powered Guns should be banned, end of fuckin discussion!!

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Shall not be infringed....

Debate over

 

[Unkotare]

This is not a gun debate. It is a report on terrorism.

 

[whitehall]

If the left was serious about the gun debate they would be demonstrating in the streets of Washington D.C. demanding that agents of the ATF and/or the FBI who were involved in the debacle of "operation fast/furious" be indicted for accessory to murder of a Border Patrol Officer (and hundreds of Mexican civilians) with thousands of illegal weapons supplied by the U.S. federal government to Mexican drug cartels.

 

[FA_Q2]

You can not in the one breath, wrap yourselves in the constitution, talkin bout you white folk and your love for guns...and not expect others to follow suit. This gunman, although Muslim, was America's child. His radical thoughts are no more different than those that appose abortions, minorities, children, movie goer's, transgender or Marthon runners..... All born and raised right here in good ol 2nd Amendment country. Unfortunately this will become a radical Islamic discussion rather than the real focus which is gun control and the NRA's hold on our politicians.

No one in their right mind should own high powered none stop shooting instruments unless your in law enforcement or the military and the fact average citizens are allowed to purchase such weapons are the sole reasons we have so many shootings of our citizens in this country and nothing once again will be done about this....because the discussion will once again be lost.

This was a hate crime against gays that will morph into a hate crime against muslims
Sandy Hook, a mental issue crime, that morphed into school safety and teachers carrying guns. This country will never ever face its own enemies and that's the NRA and politicians that refuse to discuss its impact on our society. High Powered Guns should be banned, end of fuckin discussion!!

Yet gun control does not work.

Your above drivel is a massive appeal to emotion with the 'solutions' mired in knee jerk reactions. When the results of gun control are actually measured in an objective way there end up being none:


From a post I did some time ago:

Clearly I am going to have to remake this argument in a few places so I am going to rework another post I did in one of these other threads. For those of you that heave read this from me, skip it. For the rest of the slow class: gun control advocates have no evidence supporting their demands. I ask the OP, how are the gun advocates on the 'wrong' side when you have no data to support your point where they have tons.

All over the place on this board I am seeing people demanding gun control and making a wide variety of claims about what we need or do not need but one thing is utterly lacking IN EVERY FUCKING THREAD: facts. I can count the number of facts used in the 10+ threads calling for gun reforms on one hand. Get educated, we have passed laws already and we have metrics to gauge their effectiveness.

First, common misinformation techniques must be addressed because you still find all kinds of false claims about higher 'death' rates with lax gin laws that are outright false. The metric we need to be looking at is homicides. Lots of people like to use 'gun' deaths but that is a rather useless term because you are not really measuring anything. That term is not fully defined and it is not as easily tracked and compared with different years as a solid statistic. I also hope that we can agree that what instrument kills the victim is irrelevant. If gun deaths are cut by 25% but knife deaths increase the same number by 50% we have not made progress. Rather, we regressed and are worse off. The real relevant information here is how many people are killed overall and whether or not stricter gun laws results in fewer deaths or crimes. That is what the gun control advocates are claiming.


Another common misinformation tactic is to compare US deaths to those on other countries. comparing international numbers is also utterly meaningless. Why, you ask. Well, that's simple. Scientific data requires that we control for other variables. Comparing US to Brittan is meaningless because there are thousands of variables that make a huge difference. Not only the proliferation of guns that already exists and the current gun laws but also things as basic as culture, diversity, population density, police forces and a host of other things would need to be accounted for. That is utterly impossible. Mexico and Switzerland can be used on the other side of the argument of Brittan and in the end we have learned nothing by doing this. How do we overcome this? Also, simple. You compare the crime rates before and after gun legislation has passed. We can do that here and in Brittan.
Gun Control - Just Facts

Here we see a rather large spike directly after gun laws are strengthened and no real increase after they are removed. Washington apparently did not get the memo that homicides were supposed to decrease after they passed their law.

Here we have Chicago where there is no discernable difference before and after the ban. Again, we are not seeing any real positive effects here. As a matter of fact, the rate has worsened as compared to the overall rate in the country even though it has slightly decreased. Form the caption:

Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the Chicago murder rate has averaged 17% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 25% lower.

Then we can use this same tactic in measuring the effectiveness in Britton. Lets actually look at the real numbers over there as well:

Oops, even in Brittan, when we account for other factors by using their OWN crime rates, we find that gun laws have NOT reduced the homicides they have suffered. Seems we are developing a pattern here. At least Chicago seen some reduction though it was far less than the national average decrease.


Then, you could always argue, what happens when we relax gun laws. If the gun 'grabbers' were correct, crimes rate would skyrocket (or at least go up). Does that happen:

Guess not. The homicide rate in Florida fell rather rapidly and faster than the national average. In Texas we get a similar result:

Then there are other statistics that do matter very much like the following:

* Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18]

* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 3.5% of households had members who had used a gun "for self-protection or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere." Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 1,029,615 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all "military service, police work, or work as a security guard."[19]

* A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.[20]

* A 1982 survey of male felons in 11 state prisons dispersed across the U.S. found:[21]

• 34% had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"
• 40% had decided not to commit a crime because they "knew or believed that the victim was carrying a gun"
• 69% personally knew other criminals who had been "scared off, shot at, wounded, or captured by an armed victim"[22]

Clearly, claiming that gun control leads to better outcomes is blatantly false. Look at the data, it is conclusive that gun laws most certainly do not have any positive impact on homicides or any other meaningful metric. If you have information that states otherwise then please post it. I have yet to see some solid statistical evidence that points to gun control as being a competent way of reducing deaths. I hope I have not wasted my time getting this information. Try reading it, it will enlighten you.


In conclusion, over 10 separate threads have simply ceased to continue because not a single lefty here has any response to the given facts. I have serious doubts that the OP will be any different but I wait with bated breath for one single person to actually support their demands with something that resembles fact. So far, I have received nothing.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

You can not in the one breath, wrap yourselves in the constitution, talkin bout you white folk and your love for guns

I don't see what one has to do with the other. In fact, that sounds pretty racist.

...and not expect others to follow suit. This gunman, although Muslim, was America's child. His radical thoughts are no more different than those that appose abortions, minorities, children, movie goer's, transgender or Marthon runners

I feel like you just claimed everyone in America thinks and feels the same way about everything. I also feel like you just claimed opposing abortions is radical, and that everyone that does oppose that, also opposes everything you followed it up with. That's a massive leap in logic, and makes literally no sense at all. This heavily implies that everything you follow this up with, also hinges on a blanket fallacy.

..... All born and raised right here in good ol 2nd Amendment country. Unfortunately this will become a radical Islamic discussion rather than the real focus which is gun control and the NRA's hold on our politicians.

Actually, this happened in a Gun Free Zone. Go figure the only guy with a gun intended to break the law in the first place. No amount of gun control laws will stop criminals. Had anyone in the building had a gun, the criminal would have been swiftly dealt with.

No one in their right mind should own high powered none stop shooting instruments

So... only people in their wrong mind should own weapons with... apparently infinite ammo?

unless your in law enforcement or the military

You're=You are

and the fact average citizens are allowed to purchase such weapons are the sole reasons we have so many shootings of our citizens in this country and nothing once again will be done about this....because the discussion will once again be lost.

This was a hate crime against gays that will morph into a hate crime against muslims

Sandy Hook, a mental issue crime, that morphed into school safety and teachers carrying guns. This country will never ever face its own enemies and that's the NRA and politicians that refuse to discuss its impact on our society. High Powered Guns should be banned, end of fuckin discussion!!

So, people were killed because they couldn't defend themselves against Islamic Terrorists... so we should make sure the rest of America are also sitting ducks. Makes total sense.

 

[Rocko]

You can not in the one breath, wrap yourselves in the constitution, talkin bout you white folk and your love for guns...and not expect others to follow suit. This gunman, although Muslim, was America's child. His radical thoughts are no more different than those that appose abortions, minorities, children, movie goer's, transgender or Marthon runners..... All born and raised right here in good ol 2nd Amendment country. Unfortunately this will become a radical Islamic discussion rather than the real focus which is gun control and the NRA's hold on our politicians.

No one in their right mind should own high powered none stop shooting instruments unless your in law enforcement or the military and the fact average citizens are allowed to purchase such weapons are the sole reasons we have so many shootings of our citizens in this country and nothing once again will be done about this....because the discussion will once again be lost.

This was a hate crime against gays that will morph into a hate crime against muslims
Sandy Hook, a mental issue crime, that morphed into school safety and teachers carrying guns. This country will never ever face its own enemies and that's the NRA and politicians that refuse to discuss its impact on our society. High Powered Guns should be banned, end of fuckin discussion!!

"fact average citizens are allowed to purchase such weapons are the sole reasons we have so many shootings"

Yet the overwhelming vast majority of gun murders in the country are hand gun murders.

 

[tinydancer]

What a son of a bitch you are to blame the NRA instead of the terrorist. ISIS begs to differ with you.

ISIS claims responsibility for Florida gay club massacre: American-Afghan terrorist phoned 911 to pledge allegiance to group DURING attack before he was killed by cops

ISIS claims responsibility for massacre of 50 in Orlando gay club

 

[SassyIrishLass]

 

[Zoom-boing]

On 9/11/01 sixty times as many people were killed by radical islamic terrorists as were killed in the Orlando attack and there wasn't a single gun involved. But somehow this is a gun control problem, not a radical islam problem?

Freakin' idiotic moron.

 

[FA_Q2]

Oh look, another gun control thread that died instantly when facts were presented.

Again, SHOCKED I tell you! Simply Shocked!

I wonder when a single gun control advocate will ever address the FACTS?

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Oh look, another gun control thread that died instantly when facts were presented.

Again, SHOCKED I tell you! Simply Shocked!

I wonder when a single gun control advocate will ever address the FACTS?

If they wanted to talk facts, they wouldn't be expecting to stop criminals with laws.

 

[AmericanFirst1]

You can not in the one breath, wrap yourselves in the constitution, talkin bout you white folk and your love for guns...and not expect others to follow suit. This gunman, although Muslim, was America's child. His radical thoughts are no more different than those that appose abortions, minorities, children, movie goer's, transgender or Marthon runners..... All born and raised right here in good ol 2nd Amendment country. Unfortunately this will become a radical Islamic discussion rather than the real focus which is gun control and the NRA's hold on our politicians.

No one in their right mind should own high powered none stop shooting instruments unless your in law enforcement or the military and the fact average citizens are allowed to purchase such weapons are the sole reasons we have so many shootings of our citizens in this country and nothing once again will be done about this....because the discussion will once again be lost.

This was a hate crime against gays that will morph into a hate crime against muslims
Sandy Hook, a mental issue crime, that morphed into school safety and teachers carrying guns. This country will never ever face its own enemies and that's the NRA and politicians that refuse to discuss its impact on our society. High Powered Guns should be banned, end of fuckin discussion!!

Stfu you racist hag retard.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

You can not in the one breath, wrap yourselves in the constitution, talkin bout you white folk and your love for guns...and not expect others to follow suit. This gunman, although Muslim, was America's child. His radical thoughts are no more different than those that appose abortions, minorities, children, movie goer's, transgender or Marthon runners..... All born and raised right here in good ol 2nd Amendment country. Unfortunately this will become a radical Islamic discussion rather than the real focus which is gun control and the NRA's hold on our politicians.

No one in their right mind should own high powered none stop shooting instruments unless your in law enforcement or the military and the fact average citizens are allowed to purchase such weapons are the sole reasons we have so many shootings of our citizens in this country and nothing once again will be done about this....because the discussion will once again be lost.

This was a hate crime against gays that will morph into a hate crime against muslims
Sandy Hook, a mental issue crime, that morphed into school safety and teachers carrying guns. This country will never ever face its own enemies and that's the NRA and politicians that refuse to discuss its impact on our society. High Powered Guns should be banned, end of fuckin discussion!!

You state that only the Military and Law Enforcement should "own high powered none stop shooting instruments " You left out one group, criminals. by their very nature they will ignore any ban. There will never be a fucking end to a discussion that has the potential to take away the rights of law abiding citizens.

You rail against the NRA but I bet money you have no problem with one individual spending 50 million dollars to influence gun control policy. Bloomberg to spend $50 million to challenge NRA on gun safety - CNN.com

 

[MDiver]

"80 million" private citizens "legally" own approximately "300 million firearms, among them, magazine fed semi-automatic rifles. Those 80 million gun owners are not now, nor ever were, a threat to you or those you love. Those 80 million gun owners are also mostly voters who have no intention of surrendering their firearms no matter what the government dictates. The following are threats to you and your loved ones:
1. Any and all Muslims who actually believe that this nation should be ruled under Sharia Law. Those who do, believe with all their heart that all infidels (you included) should be converted, subjugated, or killed, gays killed, people who leave the religion killed and women made second-class citizens.
2. Burglars who break into homes and steal peoples legally owned firearms.
3. Gang members who purchase guns from the burglars who steal the firearms.
4. Drug dealers who use illegally obtained firearms.
5. The mentally ill.
6. Domestic abusers.
7. Straw purchasers who buy firearms for criminals.
The Muslim who killed all those people in Orlando, was on a terror watch list and why the government allows those on a terror watch list to buy guns is beyond me.

 

[EverCurious]

It is an injustice to punish me by taking away my constitutional rights because of the actions of a criminal.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz Zzzzzzzzzzzzz Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[blackhawk]

Per Florida law the clubd was a gun free zone how could he have gotten a gun in there? Maybe it's because terrorist don't give a rats ass about laws.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I believe any modern civilization should do everything in its power to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and terrorist. It is simple common sense. To argue against such is to wish for more dead.

I have no problem with self defense and hunting...So no, I wouldn't want to ban fire arms.