Am I a racist or a realist??

[Foxfyre]

I can't speak for AA (though I'm pretty sure she didn't)--she is more than capable of speaking competently for herself--but there are a lot of folks who did vote for Obama because he 'just felt right to them.' And if we are all honest, he 'felt right' to to a lot of them because he was black.

So going back to the OP and Healthmyths wondering if even having the question of the people's race in that news story cross his mind might make him racist--a very honest question--I might add that Obama initially 'felt more right' to me than Hillary did in the early going in that election. He made a great first impression and was saying a lot of all the right things.

In the end, however, though I didn't intend to vote for either one in the general election, I was hoping Hillary won the primary. I had a good sense of the track record with her and, after fully researching Barack Obama's track record, my 'gut' told me she was the less dangerous of the two.

And I am damn sure that had nothing to do with the race or gender of either.

I will say however, that I didn't want us to elect a BLACK president--one that we would have to be constantly conscious of and defer to as a black man. I had no problem with electing a man or woman who happened to be black. Does that make me racist?

 

[Katzndogz]

Making the decision between being a racist or a realist might be the most important decision you ever made in your life.

This girl chose not to be a racist and she may never walk again.

Woman survives attack from stranger she offered to drive to hospital | Mail Online

She should have been a realist instead. What's most egregious is that her internal bells rang she said "if you promise not to hurt me". She had a clue, but the fear of being thought a racist overcame all and she let this black guy into her car and is paying the price.

Better to be a realist.

 

[AquaAthena]

Then how would you hire one over the other if equally qualified?

Flip a coin is the only honest answer that would not make the choice based on race.

I would hire the one I had the best feelings about, all other things, attitude, experience, etc., being equal. I would rely upon my intuition, as it has almost always proven reliable.

Speaking of your criterion.."best feelings".. did you vote for Obama because he just felt right to you?

I didn't vote for Obama, because he felt left to me. My best feelings ( instincts ) were guided by the research I had done on him and by the people he who had chosen to associate with in his previous and present years.

I knew we were in deep do-do. I vetted him.

Now! I owe, I owe, it's off to work I go....

 

[Foxfyre]

Making the decision between being a racist or a realist might be the most important decision you ever made in your life.

This girl chose not to be a racist and she may never walk again.

Woman survives attack from stranger she offered to drive to hospital | Mail Online

She should have been a realist instead. What's most egregious is that her internal bells rang she said "if you promise not to hurt me". She had a clue, but the fear of being thought a racist overcame all and she let this black guy into her car and is paying the price.

Better to be a realist.

Like the black pastor I mentioned earlier--when meeting another on a deserted street, he was relieved to see that the other person was white. His experience informed him that he had less to fear from a white man in that neighborhood than he had to fear from a black man. That isn't being racist. That is being realist.

On the other hand, many years ago I was washing my car in a self-serve do it yourself car wash, and tried to be nonchalant when I noticed that four black guys were washing their car in the stall at the other end. They were big, tough looking, dread locks and the whole thing, wearing Black Panther t-shirts and I will admit to being uncomfortable. There was nobody else around. And I was definitely frightened when all four of them, in unison, came toward me. I had to fight to keep my cool. And then they smiled, greeted me, and proceeded to chamois off my car, waved goodbye and left. I felt very sheepish at my initial reaction. Realist? Or racist?

 

[Asclepias]

Making the decision between being a racist or a realist might be the most important decision you ever made in your life.

This girl chose not to be a racist and she may never walk again.

Woman survives attack from stranger she offered to drive to hospital | Mail Online

She should have been a realist instead. What's most egregious is that her internal bells rang she said "if you promise not to hurt me". She had a clue, but the fear of being thought a racist overcame all and she let this black guy into her car and is paying the price.

Better to be a realist.

Like the black pastor I mentioned earlier--when meeting another on a deserted street, he was relieved to see that the other person was white. His experience informed him that he had less to fear from a white man in that neighborhood than he had to fear from a black man. That isn't being racist. That is being realist.

On the other hand, many years ago I was washing my car in a self-serve do it yourself car wash, and tried to be nonchalant when I noticed that four black guys were washing their car in the stall at the other end. They were big, tough looking, dread locks and the whole thing, wearing Black Panther t-shirts and I will admit to being uncomfortable. There was nobody else around. And I was definitely frightened when all four of them, in unison, came toward me. I had to fight to keep my cool. And then they smiled, greeted me, and proceeded to chamois off my car, waved goodbye and left. I felt very sheepish at my initial reaction. Realist? Or racist?

Definitely prejudice with a possibility of racism to boot. Why did the look tough? Was it that they were big? Was it because they were black or was it the hair? Whats "the whole thing"?

 

[Foxfyre]

Making the decision between being a racist or a realist might be the most important decision you ever made in your life.

This girl chose not to be a racist and she may never walk again.

Woman survives attack from stranger she offered to drive to hospital | Mail Online

She should have been a realist instead. What's most egregious is that her internal bells rang she said "if you promise not to hurt me". She had a clue, but the fear of being thought a racist overcame all and she let this black guy into her car and is paying the price.

Better to be a realist.

Like the black pastor I mentioned earlier--when meeting another on a deserted street, he was relieved to see that the other person was white. His experience informed him that he had less to fear from a white man in that neighborhood than he had to fear from a black man. That isn't being racist. That is being realist.

On the other hand, many years ago I was washing my car in a self-serve do it yourself car wash, and tried to be nonchalant when I noticed that four black guys were washing their car in the stall at the other end. They were big, tough looking, dread locks and the whole thing, wearing Black Panther t-shirts and I will admit to being uncomfortable. There was nobody else around. And I was definitely frightened when all four of them, in unison, came toward me. I had to fight to keep my cool. And then they smiled, greeted me, and proceeded to chamois off my car, waved goodbye and left. I felt very sheepish at my initial reaction. Realist? Or racist?

Definitely prejudice with a possibility of racism to boot. Why did the look tough? Was it that they were big? Was it because they were black or was it the hair? Whats "the whole thing"?

My experience with people dressed/outfitted like them up to that point had all been negative--hostile even. It was no different than another time in West Virginia, my group was having a picnic in one half of a large shelter in a park. A group--all white--of a motorcycle club/group/gang or something came into the other half of the shelter--all dressed in black leather motorcycle garb, lots of tats, and just big, bad, and ugly looking. This was the era of Hell's Angels and such as that. So our much smaller group was somewhat apprehensive. But again there was no danger. The other party was quite non obnoxious and not the least bit threatening in any way.

But it is interesting that you immediately rate my reaction at the carwash as prejudiced and possibly racist. Because I think I have a very good grasp of that and I honestly don't know if I would have been equally apprehensive had those guys been white, Hispanic, Asian or whatever. The Black Panthers, at that time, did have very negative connotations for me though.

 

[Asclepias]

Like the black pastor I mentioned earlier--when meeting another on a deserted street, he was relieved to see that the other person was white. His experience informed him that he had less to fear from a white man in that neighborhood than he had to fear from a black man. That isn't being racist. That is being realist.

On the other hand, many years ago I was washing my car in a self-serve do it yourself car wash, and tried to be nonchalant when I noticed that four black guys were washing their car in the stall at the other end. They were big, tough looking, dread locks and the whole thing, wearing Black Panther t-shirts and I will admit to being uncomfortable. There was nobody else around. And I was definitely frightened when all four of them, in unison, came toward me. I had to fight to keep my cool. And then they smiled, greeted me, and proceeded to chamois off my car, waved goodbye and left. I felt very sheepish at my initial reaction. Realist? Or racist?

Definitely prejudice with a possibility of racism to boot. Why did the look tough? Was it that they were big? Was it because they were black or was it the hair? Whats "the whole thing"?

My experience with people dressed/outfitted like them up to that point had all been negative--hostile even. It was no different than another time in West Virginia, my group was having a picnic in one half of a large shelter in a park. A group--all white--of a motorcycle club/group/gang or something came into the other half of the shelter--all dressed in black leather motorcycle garb, lots of tats, and just big, bad, and ugly looking. This was the era of Hell's Angels and such as that. So our much smaller group was somewhat apprehensive. But again there was no danger. The other party was quite non obnoxious and not the least bit threatening in any way.

But it is interesting that you immediately rate my reaction at the carwash as prejudiced and possibly racist. Because I think I have a very good grasp of that and I honestly don't know if I would have been equally apprehensive had those guys been white, Hispanic, Asian or whatever. The Black Panthers, at that time, did have very negative connotations for me though.

There is nothing wrong with being prejudiced initially. Advanced people know how to get a grip on it and wait until they receive additional data before confirming their prejudiced thoughts. I dont know if there is a study on it but I am firmly convinced that your non verbal reaction to a person is just as much at fault in causing a bad situation as their reaction to you. For example: I intimidated a lot of people before I learned how to smile upon first meeting them. Looking back I realized that me not smiling made people anxious. i took offense to that which of course put a meaner look on my face and the cycle continued. I have trained myself to immediately smile when I meet someones eyes without regard for their expression. This has changed the way people view me and the way I view others.

 

[Foxfyre]

Definitely prejudice with a possibility of racism to boot. Why did the look tough? Was it that they were big? Was it because they were black or was it the hair? Whats "the whole thing"?

My experience with people dressed/outfitted like them up to that point had all been negative--hostile even. It was no different than another time in West Virginia, my group was having a picnic in one half of a large shelter in a park. A group--all white--of a motorcycle club/group/gang or something came into the other half of the shelter--all dressed in black leather motorcycle garb, lots of tats, and just big, bad, and ugly looking. This was the era of Hell's Angels and such as that. So our much smaller group was somewhat apprehensive. But again there was no danger. The other party was quite non obnoxious and not the least bit threatening in any way.

But it is interesting that you immediately rate my reaction at the carwash as prejudiced and possibly racist. Because I think I have a very good grasp of that and I honestly don't know if I would have been equally apprehensive had those guys been white, Hispanic, Asian or whatever. The Black Panthers, at that time, did have very negative connotations for me though.

There is nothing wrong with being prejudiced initially. Advanced people know how to get a grip on it and wait until they receive additional data before confirming their prejudiced thoughts. I dont know if there is a study on it but I am firmly convinced that your non verbal reaction to a person is just as much at fault in causing a bad situation as their reaction to you. For example: I intimidated a lot of people before I learned how to smile upon first meeting them. Looking back I realized that me not smiling made people anxious. i took offense to that which of course put a meaner look on my face and the cycle continued. I have trained myself to immediately smile when I meet someones eyes without regard for their expression. This has changed the way people view me and the way I view others.

In my opinion you are applying too broad a brush for both 'prejudice' and 'racism' though. I don't see experience and conditioning as the same thing as either prejudice or racism. Would not smiling make a difference to how people reacted to you if you were white? People who don't smile or who are otherwise stern and forbidding are off putting no matter of what stripe they are.

If I am sitting alone in a car and a stranger approaches or is hanging around close, I as often or not will lock my car door as a precaution. It doesn't matter at all what color such person is. But if the stranger is a black person, I have been accused of insulting that person when I lock my cardoor. It is seen as a racist act. Is it? When I do that in most situations like that regardless of the skin color of the person?

I KNOW racism is perpetuated by political correctness that doesn't allow us to treat people all the same. That both elevates consciousness of race and creates resentment that some think they merit special consideration and treatment. I suspect racism is also perpetuated by a hypersensitivity and tendency to take offense at the slightest and most innocuous things and that too creates and/or intensifies resentment. (And the same concept applies to women, gays, people of various religious faiths, etc. etc. etc.)

 

[Asclepias]

My experience with people dressed/outfitted like them up to that point had all been negative--hostile even. It was no different than another time in West Virginia, my group was having a picnic in one half of a large shelter in a park. A group--all white--of a motorcycle club/group/gang or something came into the other half of the shelter--all dressed in black leather motorcycle garb, lots of tats, and just big, bad, and ugly looking. This was the era of Hell's Angels and such as that. So our much smaller group was somewhat apprehensive. But again there was no danger. The other party was quite non obnoxious and not the least bit threatening in any way.

But it is interesting that you immediately rate my reaction at the carwash as prejudiced and possibly racist. Because I think I have a very good grasp of that and I honestly don't know if I would have been equally apprehensive had those guys been white, Hispanic, Asian or whatever. The Black Panthers, at that time, did have very negative connotations for me though.

There is nothing wrong with being prejudiced initially. Advanced people know how to get a grip on it and wait until they receive additional data before confirming their prejudiced thoughts. I dont know if there is a study on it but I am firmly convinced that your non verbal reaction to a person is just as much at fault in causing a bad situation as their reaction to you. For example: I intimidated a lot of people before I learned how to smile upon first meeting them. Looking back I realized that me not smiling made people anxious. i took offense to that which of course put a meaner look on my face and the cycle continued. I have trained myself to immediately smile when I meet someones eyes without regard for their expression. This has changed the way people view me and the way I view others.

In my opinion you are applying too broad a brush for both 'prejudice' and 'racism' though. I don't see experience and conditioning as the same thing as either prejudice or racism. Would not smiling make a difference to how people reacted to you if you were white? People who don't smile or who are otherwise stern and forbidding are off putting no matter of what stripe they are.

If I am sitting alone in a car and a stranger approaches or is hanging around close, I as often or not will lock my car door as a precaution. It doesn't matter at all what color such person is. But if the stranger is a black person, I have been accused of insulting that person when I lock my cardoor. It is seen as a racist act. Is it? When I do that in most situations like that regardless of the skin color of the person?

I KNOW racism is perpetuated by political correctness that doesn't allow us to treat people all the same. That both elevates consciousness of race and creates resentment that some think they merit special consideration and treatment. I suspect racism is also perpetuated by a hypersensitivity and tendency to take offense at the slightest and most innocuous things and that too creates and/or intensifies resentment. (And the same concept applies to women, gays, people of various religious faiths, etc. etc. etc.)

Prejudice and racism are pretty well defined. Prejudice is literally pre-judging before you have all the facts and racism is the belief your ethnicity/race is superior. IMO your prejudices are defined by your experience and conditioning. You locking the door when a male comes around is a prejudice. You looking the door only if its a black male is bigoted. You locking the door if its a black male and you think they are sub human is racist. Your thoughts dictate those terms. I see nothing wrong with prejudice for a hot second while I do see everything wrong with racism/bigotry.

I'm pretty sure there is some connection with hypersensitivity and racism/bigotry as I have found out personally. Those that I thought were racist were only intimidated by me not smiling. A lot of them told me they thought I hated them and it bothered them but they were afraid to say anything to me. I could see how thinking or knowing someone hates you could turn a person into a racist.

 

[Foxfyre]

There is nothing wrong with being prejudiced initially. Advanced people know how to get a grip on it and wait until they receive additional data before confirming their prejudiced thoughts. I dont know if there is a study on it but I am firmly convinced that your non verbal reaction to a person is just as much at fault in causing a bad situation as their reaction to you. For example: I intimidated a lot of people before I learned how to smile upon first meeting them. Looking back I realized that me not smiling made people anxious. i took offense to that which of course put a meaner look on my face and the cycle continued. I have trained myself to immediately smile when I meet someones eyes without regard for their expression. This has changed the way people view me and the way I view others.

In my opinion you are applying too broad a brush for both 'prejudice' and 'racism' though. I don't see experience and conditioning as the same thing as either prejudice or racism. Would not smiling make a difference to how people reacted to you if you were white? People who don't smile or who are otherwise stern and forbidding are off putting no matter of what stripe they are.

If I am sitting alone in a car and a stranger approaches or is hanging around close, I as often or not will lock my car door as a precaution. It doesn't matter at all what color such person is. But if the stranger is a black person, I have been accused of insulting that person when I lock my cardoor. It is seen as a racist act. Is it? When I do that in most situations like that regardless of the skin color of the person?

I KNOW racism is perpetuated by political correctness that doesn't allow us to treat people all the same. That both elevates consciousness of race and creates resentment that some think they merit special consideration and treatment. I suspect racism is also perpetuated by a hypersensitivity and tendency to take offense at the slightest and most innocuous things and that too creates and/or intensifies resentment. (And the same concept applies to women, gays, people of various religious faiths, etc. etc. etc.)

Prejudice and racism are pretty well defined. Prejudice is literally pre-judging before you have all the facts and racism is the belief your ethnicity/race is superior. IMO your prejudices are defined by your experience and conditioning. You locking the door when a male comes around is a prejudice. You looking the door only if its a black male is bigoted. You locking the door if its a black male and you think they are sub human is racist. Your thoughts dictate those terms. I see nothing wrong with prejudice for a hot second while I do see everything wrong with racism/bigotry.

I'm pretty sure there is some connection with hypersensitivity and racism/bigotry as I have found out personally. Those that I thought were racist were only intimidated by me not smiling. A lot of them told me they thought I hated them and it bothered them but they were afraid to say anything to me. I could see how thinking or knowing someone hates you could turn a person into a racist.

We aren't seeing 100% eye to eye on this, but we are far closer to agreement than probably what I think either of our prejudices would have allowed us to see had we never had this discussion.

 

[Zagg]

Over the years, I've seen various stories of fights breaking out at parties. The race changes with the stories. No one has a monopoly on misbehavior.

You're absolutely right, no group has a monopoly on crime of any type. But even a cursory look at the DoJ crime statistics shows a very clear correlation between race and violent crime.

 

[Foxfyre]

Racist is just a term used to try to shut your mouth. If all whites were suddenly transformed into "non-racists" there would never be a word uttered about blacks which would agitate them even more for being ignored.

I could have sworn it was a term to describe someone who considered their ethnicity to be superior to someone else. Actually if all whites were transformed into non-racists the world would be a much better place.

As the world would be a better place if all blacks, Asians, latinos, etc. were transformed into non-racists. Actually, the developed world has pretty well eliminated all or most of the worst consequences of racism, but it gets little appreciation for that. Delbert, while blunt, was not that far off base in getting at the truth. We have become a politically correct culture in which we must be VERY careful about what metaphors or words or analogies we use in describing certain people, or we will be accused of being racist, or homophobic, or mysogynistic or some other 'ist. And if we are a prominent person, we will almost certainly have an angry mob, group, or organization descend upon us to punish us physically and/or materially for our 'ism.

We have to be so very much more careful about firing the incompetent black guy than we have to be with the incompetent white guy. Unless we are in the protected class, if we use ANY word that has become on the verboten list, we will be accused and condemned.
Use almost any uncomplimentary graphic for a black person and it is deemed racist. Even criticize our President and some will say that we just can't stand it that a black man holds that high office. Speak against the negative consequences of the welfare state and we will be accused of being racist as well as 'hating poor people'.

It really gets absurd at times, but it has become as predictable as taxes. And in my opinion it creates resentment, encourages those who exploit it for personal gain, and keeps racism alive and well and thriving.

 

[JamesBond]

Give all people good education and you'll forget about racism in no time. Well, within 100 years or so, I mean.

 

[Zagg]

Give all people good education and you'll forget about racism in no time. Well, within 100 years or so, I mean.

But suppose that they are incapable of profitting from that education? If your IQ is a couple of standard deviations below the mean, you're not going to get much beyond junior high school.

 

[JamesBond]

Give all people good education and you'll forget about racism in no time. Well, within 100 years or so, I mean.

But suppose that they are incapable of profitting from that education? If your IQ is a couple of standard deviations below the mean, you're not going to get much beyond junior high school.

Well, I was talking about racism, somebody's IQ doesnt' depend on the skin color.

 

[Zagg]

Give all people good education and you'll forget about racism in no time. Well, within 100 years or so, I mean.

But suppose that they are incapable of profitting from that education? If your IQ is a couple of standard deviations below the mean, you're not going to get much beyond junior high school.

Well, I was talking about racism, somebody's IQ doesnt' depend on the skin color.

No, IQ doesn't "depend on" skin color. But the fact is, the average IQ of Afro-Americans is about 85, which is a couple of standard deviations below the white IQ of 100. By comparison, Northeast Asians have an average IQ of about 105 (just look at your average college campus) and Ashkenazic Jews have an IQ of about 115 (hence, all those Nobel Prizes in physics).

 

[Foxfyre]

But suppose that they are incapable of profitting from that education? If your IQ is a couple of standard deviations below the mean, you're not going to get much beyond junior high school.

Well, I was talking about racism, somebody's IQ doesnt' depend on the skin color.

No, IQ doesn't "depend on" skin color. But the fact is, the average IQ of Afro-Americans is about 85, which is a couple of standard deviations below the white IQ of 100. By comparison, Northeast Asians have an average IQ of about 105 (just look at your average college campus) and Ashkenazic Jews have an IQ of about 115 (hence, all those Nobel Prizes in physics).

And in our culture, you could be branded racist for stating those facts which do appear to be facts that are not being disputed in the scientific world lately:
Race differences in average IQ are largely genetic

But I am one who tends to be a bit skeptical of conclusions based on raw numbers, charts, and graphs alone. The recent studies seem to draw a conclusion that the phenomenon is genetic, but I am not as convinced. I have known, worked with, and befriended too many people who happen to be black to believe they are more likely to have lower IQs than I do. But people I work with, am neighbors with, and befriend, are all people who have not been conditioned to see themselves as victims, oppressed, discriminated against, mistreated, or disdvantaged in any way. They therefore have not been culturally 'dumbed down' and are able to embrace concepts and ideas that some of their race group might accuse them of being "Uncle Toms" or "acting white' or some other derogatory racist term. They don't see adopting a lifestyle and embracing concepts that enable them to learn and get ahead as 'acting white', but rather as 'acting smart'.

And I have read such great historians and brilliant analysts such as Thomas Sowell who recounts his own experience as a student in a segregated inner city New York school back in the 1940's. He went back and did extensive research on test scores, advancement rates, etc. of his 'black' school and compared those with the same statistics from a nearby inner city 'white school'. He said in all basic subjects--English, math, and science--some years the white school turned in slightly better scores and sometimes the black school turned in slight better scores, but overall the two schools were neck and neck. And the kids coming out of those schools, both black and white, got an education that allowed them to compete with anybody.

There is no getting around the fact that Asians and some cultic Jews, for instance, have very different lifestyles and family values/expectations than do either American whites or blacks, and maybe that comes from a high IQ, but it also may contribute to it. And, while many single parents do a great job of parenting, in all cultures, children from the traditional two-parent homes tend to have a leg up on those with single parents. The last statistics I read is that 80+% of black children are now born to single mothers. That has to be a statistic factored into the mix.

This suggests to me that attitude and cultural conditioning may be much more of a factor than genetics in how kids score on IQ tests. But it wouldn't be politically correct to study that these days would it?

 

[Zagg]

But I am one who tends to be a bit skeptical of conclusions based on raw numbers, charts, and graphs alone. The recent studies seem to draw a conclusion that the phenomenon is genetic, but I am not as convinced. I have known, worked with, and befriended too many people who happen to be black to believe they are more likely to have lower IQs than I do.

You can deny the results of thousands of peer-reviewed studies from around the world on the basis of your personal experiences if you want to.

 

[Asclepias]

But I am one who tends to be a bit skeptical of conclusions based on raw numbers, charts, and graphs alone. The recent studies seem to draw a conclusion that the phenomenon is genetic, but I am not as convinced. I have known, worked with, and befriended too many people who happen to be black to believe they are more likely to have lower IQs than I do.

You can deny the results of thousands of peer-reviewed studies from around the world on the basis of your personal experiences if you want to.

Let me know when they can design a test that accounts for things like test taking anxiety, bad hair day, illness, just broke up with loved one, etc. Once they do that then talk to me about the IQ test which came from a person that is called the Father of Eugenics.

 

[Foxfyre]

But I am one who tends to be a bit skeptical of conclusions based on raw numbers, charts, and graphs alone. The recent studies seem to draw a conclusion that the phenomenon is genetic, but I am not as convinced. I have known, worked with, and befriended too many people who happen to be black to believe they are more likely to have lower IQs than I do.

You can deny the results of thousands of peer-reviewed studies from around the world on the basis of your personal experiences if you want to.

The thing is I have taught black students at my own knee. And I have taught white students and Hispanic students and there were a couple of Asian kids in there somewhere. There was no difference--zero difference--in these kids who came from loving traditional two parent homes. The kids, white, black, and Hispanic--the Asian kids almost always come from traditional homes--from single parent homes usually had more trouble focusing, more trouble grasping concepts, and generally lagged behind the others. There were exceptions of course where a single parented kid excelled and the kid from the two-parent home didn't, but I am speaking overall. As well as what I have experienced with people I have worked with side by side. And as well as reading what those who have done exhaustive research and written extensively on the subject, such as Thomas Sowell, etc. have written. . . .

I believe I am on perfectly reasonable ground believing that cultural conditioning is far more a factor than genetics. I am also skeptical that there are thousands of peer reviewed studies out there that have considered cultural conditioning and still arrived at the conclusion you support.

Don't forget there was once almost 100% scientific consensus that the Earth was flat and that the Sun revolved around it. Sometimes common sense serves us much more competently.

P.S. The intelligent mostly know that there is a difference between questioning/skepticism and denial. And know how to be more precise in their criticism.