Allies and Adversaries

[onedomino]

No, I was only in China for the fall semester at Peking University. I have now returned to my regular university in the States.

So did you travel within China very much? Did you get out into rural China? Can you give us your impressions?

 

[Diuretic]

Currently in the polls, the leading Republican candidate for President defeats the leading Democratic challengers. And the only thing with lower approval ratings in US polls than Bush, is the Democrat led US Congress. Moreover, the relationship that the US has with Australia is not driven by the personalities of its current leaders. To think otherwise would be denying a long and close history. For example, the 2004 inked FTA has been on the agenda of every Australian government since 1946. In fact the Hawke Government, which you have mentioned favorably, renewed mordern interest in a FTA with the US in the 1980s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia-United_States_Free_Trade_Agreement

I think Bush is at 28%, the Congress is higher.

Yes the FTA with a different administration. This time we've been screwed by the Bush Admniistration.

Australia has an economy that has grown very significantly during the past five years and is 1/14 the size of the US economy. Quite impressive for a country with only 25 million people or so. Your GDP per capita is more than US $33,000, near or beyond the UK, and among the leaders in the world. You seem very worried about US competition. In 2006, the US comprised only about 13 percent of Australian imports, while the EU was more than 20 percent. I'd be more worried about the EU, if I were you. The reason that the Howard Government finally concluded the FTA with the US is that only about 6 percent of your exports went to the US (2006) and, obviously, a FTA with America will make Australia more competitive in that market. http://www.economist.com/countries/Australia/PrinterFriendly.cfm?Story_ID=8952993

Pop about 21 million.

We've grown but we've wasted what we had. Our govt has mismanaged the benefits from the temporary boom.

Are you saying that wheat contracts for Iraq were not competively bid, but just handed to US farmers? Clearly that was not the case. In 2006, Australia won new wheat contracts with Iraq and the previous losses were said to be because of bribes paid to Saddam Hussein’s regime and corruption in the Australian Wheat Board. http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/2006/s1583338.htm and http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/11/27/news/australia.php Maybe that Wheat Board should keep its pencil sharp.

We were shafted.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...at-deal-in-iraq/2006/11/24/1164341401011.html

 

[Annie]

I think Bush is at 28%, the Congress is higher.

Yes the FTA with a different administration. This time we've been screwed by the Bush Admniistration.



Pop about 21 million.

We've grown but we've wasted what we had. Our govt has mismanaged the benefits from the temporary boom.




We were shafted.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...at-deal-in-iraq/2006/11/24/1164341401011.html

The latest aggregate polling I saw had the President's approval rating at 35.6%, while the Congressional approval was at 36.8, so you are partially correct, Congress is very slightly ahead.

 

[Diuretic]

It will probably change on a week to week basis I would think. I suppose in these things it's the trends that matter.

 

[Annie]

It will probably change on a week to week basis I would think. I suppose in these things it's the trends that matter.

So your projections?

 

[onedomino]

Pop about 21 million.
We've grown but we've wasted what we had. Our govt has mismanaged the benefits from the temporary boom.

We were shafted.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...at-deal-in-iraq/2006/11/24/1164341401011.html

There are less people than I mentioned, which makes your GDP performance even better. Temporary boom? Look at the Australian GDP performance since 2002 in US dollars:
2002 $412b
2003 $525b
2004 $638b
2005 $712b
2006 $754b
Does not look too temporary to me. How can you call that performance mismanagement? Seems you have a hard time giving the government any credit because they are not on your side of the political spectrum. In a five year period, the Australian economy has grown 83 percent! I got these numbers from the Economist.com link in the post above. You were shafted? That's not what the SMH article says. Your Wheat Board had been bribing Saddam Hussein and the Americans let the Iraqis know it. How can you call that shafted? Only a paper as far left and as notoriously anti Howard and Bush as the SMH would have the nerve to call exposure of corruption “sabotage.” I call it justice. The Wheat Board paid Saddam Hussein's regime US $224 million in kickbacks to receive wheat contracts! Did anyone go to jail? It is corrupt to pay for contracts. Doing so sabotages free competition. If you are an American business person and you pay bribes to receive contracts overseas, and get caught, then you go to prison.

 

[onedomino]

I think Bush is at 28%, the Congress is higher.

You can find polls that say just about whatever you want. Here’s a May 1st poll that has Bush’s approval rating at 41 percent. Elsewhere on that page you can find a poll that says only 20 percent of the public think that Congress is doing a good or excellent job. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm

 

[Diuretic]

There are less people than I mentioned, which makes your GDP performance even better. Temporary boom? Look at the Australian GDP performance since 2002 in US dollars:
2002 $412b
2003 $525b
2004 $638b
2005 $712b
2006 $754b
Does not look too temporary to me. How can you call that performance mismanagement? Seems you have a hard time giving the government any credit because they are not on your side of the political spectrum. In a five year period, the Australian economy has grown 83 percent! I got these numbers from the Economist.com link in the post above. You were shafted? That's not what the SMH article says. Your Wheat Board had been bribing Saddam Hussein and the Americans let the Iraqis know it. How can you call that shafted? Only a paper as far left and as notoriously anti Howard and Bush as the SMH would have the nerve to call exposure of corruption “sabotage.” I call it justice. The Wheat Board paid Saddam Hussein's regime US $224 million in kickbacks to receive wheat contracts! Did anyone go to jail? It is corrupt to pay for contracts. Doing so sabotages free competition. If you are an American business person and you pay bribes to receive contracts overseas, and get caught, then you go to prison.

The statistics are just a snapshot of economic activity and not a full picture of government administration. For example, the infrastructure problems with ports in the eastern states here meant that for a lengthy period of time coal couldn't be exported because ships simply couldn't get into the ports to get it. You see you can't just look at raw figures without looking at other factors.

Pehaps I'm biased but I keep reading stories in our national press of the mismanagement of this federal government. Those are not the sort of stories that make the international press and it's hard for you to find them using a search engine because you need to know key words.

Now since you brought up my bias - if you regard the SMH as far left then you have revealed your own bias. Now I know that I can understand you better.

 

[Diuretic]

You can find polls that say just about whatever you want. Here’s a May 1st poll that has Bush’s approval rating at 41 percent. Elsewhere on that page you can find a poll that says only 20 percent of the public think that Congress is doing a good or excellent job. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Bush_Job_Approval.htm

Yes the trends are the important aspect I suppose.

 

[akiboy]

India will become a bigger economy than China and will be able to dictate to us, just out of the sheer size of its economy, how we do things.

India never "dictates" any other country.India does not have any ambition to "boss" over Asia like CHina.India(and particularly Indian people) regard Australia as a very friendly country. We have no qualms about any nation in the world. The only countries(especially their govt and military) whom we..sorry i hate(and most of us) is CHina and Pakistan. There will be a war between India and the Communists. Personally I have nothing against the Chinese people. its the bloody government and PLA which makes my blood boil. Especially China's super power ambitions. Australia should stop selling them uranium in the first place. India will never allow China to "take over" Asia. And we are a democracy not a war mongering communist nation.

 

[onedomino]

Now since you brought up my bias - if you regard the SMH as far left then you have revealed your own bias. Now I know that I can understand you better.

Well SMH is not exactly Pravda; more like NYT, Le Monde, or Al Guardian.

 

[onedomino]

Australia should stop selling them uranium in the first place.

Interesting and disturbing.

First this: "China has insufficient uranium for both its civil and military nuclear programs, as the Chinese ambassador to Australia acknowledged in a December 2005 speech. Australian uranium sales would free up China's limited domestic reserves for the production of Weapons of Mass Destruction. As the Taipei Times editorialised on January 21, 2006: "Whether or not Aussie uranium goes directly into Chinese warheads — or whether it is used in power stations in lieu of uranium that goes into Chinese warheads — makes little difference. Canberra is about to do a deal with a regime with a record of flouting international conventions." http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...anium+sales+to+china&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

Followed by this: "Canada's major competitor in the uranium business, Australia, has reached a nuclear safeguards deal with Beijing that opens up the Chinese market to Australian mines. There were objections from a scattering of anti-Beijing protesters and Australian opposition politicians. They accused the government of putting money ahead of human rights in dealing with an undemocratic Chinese regime." http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/04/03/australia-china060403.html

 

[Diuretic]

India never "dictates" any other country.India does not have any ambition to "boss" over Asia like CHina.India(and particularly Indian people) regard Australia as a very friendly country. We have no qualms about any nation in the world. The only countries(especially their govt and military) whom we..sorry i hate(and most of us) is CHina and Pakistan. There will be a war between India and the Communists. Personally I have nothing against the Chinese people. its the bloody government and PLA which makes my blood boil. Especially China's super power ambitions. Australia should stop selling them uranium in the first place. India will never allow China to "take over" Asia. And we are a democracy not a war mongering communist nation.

Largest democracy in the world. I meant that with increased economic power comes the ability to dictate terms of trade, that's just how it goes.

 

[Diuretic]

Well SMH is not exactly Pravda; more like NYT, Le Monde, or Al Guardian.

Matter of opinion of course, SMH is perhaps close to NYT, I don't read Le Monde regularly but SMH is, I think, to the right of the Guardian and certainly the Independent.

 

[Diuretic]

Interesting and disturbing.

First this: "China has insufficient uranium for both its civil and military nuclear programs, as the Chinese ambassador to Australia acknowledged in a December 2005 speech. Australian uranium sales would free up China's limited domestic reserves for the production of Weapons of Mass Destruction. As the Taipei Times editorialised on January 21, 2006: "Whether or not Aussie uranium goes directly into Chinese warheads — or whether it is used in power stations in lieu of uranium that goes into Chinese warheads — makes little difference. Canberra is about to do a deal with a regime with a record of flouting international conventions." http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...anium+sales+to+china&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

Followed by this: "Canada's major competitor in the uranium business, Australia, has reached a nuclear safeguards deal with Beijing that opens up the Chinese market to Australian mines. There were objections from a scattering of anti-Beijing protesters and Australian opposition politicians. They accused the government of putting money ahead of human rights in dealing with an undemocratic Chinese regime." http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/04/03/australia-china060403.html

If I get in my car and drive north for three hours at 110 kph I will soon find myself at a town called Roxby Downs which serves the largest uranium mind in the world at Olympic Dam. Uranium as part of the economy and as part of global politics is definitely in the forefront of our minds here.

 

[onedomino]

If I get in my car and drive north for three hours at 110 kph I will soon find myself at a town called Roxby Downs which serves the largest uranium mind in the world at Olympic Dam. Uranium as part of the economy and as part of global politics is definitely in the forefront of our minds here.

So you live near Port Augusta?

 

[akiboy]

Largest democracy in the world. I meant that with increased economic power comes the ability to dictate terms of trade, that's just how it goes.

We dont have aggressive trade policies like CHina. Even if we do manage to become the no. 1 economy in Asia it will do no harm to any nation. Infact both Australia and India will benefit from this. We can have a bigger trade and as you know lots of Indian students come to Australia to study so our education exchange programs will also benefit.

 

[Diuretic]

So you live near Port Augusta?

I buggered that up didn't I? Let me revise.

Drive north - usually about three hours to Port Augusta if I take Higway One and manage to dodge the B-doubles and roadtrains. Then about two and bit hours to Woomera, take the turn at Pimba and off to Roxby, so it's five hours isn't it? I used to live in Port Augusta (and elsewhere up north), so that was a stupid error.

 

[Diuretic]

We dont have aggressive trade policies like CHina. Even if we do manage to become the no. 1 economy in Asia it will do no harm to any nation. Infact both Australia and India will benefit from this. We can have a bigger trade and as you know lots of Indian students come to Australia to study so our education exchange programs will also benefit.

Not yet you don't have aggressive trade policies, you will though, that's just human nature. For sure we will benefit. Have no doubt I know India is a democratic nation and if you get to be number one that's fine with me. I don't fear India but China worries me a lot. Yes education exchange would be good. I have a personal interest in open and distance education, I'd love to visit Indian universities to see it working there - Indira Gandhi National Open University for example. Bad luck for me though, I'm not an academic so I'd be dreaming anyway.

 

[CSM]

Interesting question. In my opinion, the only two countries that have been US allies (staunch allies at that) through thick and thin, despite some disagreements, are the UK and Australia. Israel is kind of in there, depending on the international situation. The rest are either indifferent or actively opposed to the US.