All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

[Tom Paine 1949]

There is no doubt that state laws pushed by right-wing Zionists making peaceful boycotts illegal and even forbidding or limiting free speech advocating peaceful boycotts, is an outrageous attack on U.S. liberties. I agree it is also “patently obvious” that not allowing government contracts to be signed with organizations or companies that have specific political viewpoints (in this case favoring or supporting BDS) is a violation of basic rights. The right wing (or “liberal”) Zionists are interfering with free speech and political activity in all these cases, and Christian Zionists are involved in this as well. While Conservatives are today vocal opponents of attacks on their own supposed “free speech rights” by private (Section 230 protected) internet platforms, they are here in cahoots with much more serious state restrictions of free speech and peaceful boycott activity.

Does free speech cover incitement to violence?
I don't hear you complain about the KKK being banned.

Are you comparing the KKK to the Israeli state? I am not.

But Israelis for decades have argued that Palestinians were all terrorists. They ignored all the mass peaceful Palestinian boycotts and demonstrations against them. Now that they have destroyed any hope of a “two-state solution,” and may soon formally annex the whole West Bank ...

They are afraid of worldwide BDS movements. So they now argue that peaceful boycotts and even just advocacy for peaceful boycotts even in the U.S. are “covers” for violence or “incitement to violence”!

Shame on you and Israel ... and shame on American society that has allowed right wing Zionists (and Christian Zionists like Pence and Pompeo) such power over our own federal and state governments!

 

[rylah]

There is no doubt that state laws pushed by right-wing Zionists making peaceful boycotts illegal and even forbidding or limiting free speech advocating peaceful boycotts, is an outrageous attack on U.S. liberties. I agree it is also “patently obvious” that not allowing government contracts to be signed with organizations or companies that have specific political viewpoints (in this case favoring or supporting BDS) is a violation of basic rights. The right wing (or “liberal”) Zionists are interfering with free speech and political activity in all these cases, and Christian Zionists are involved in this as well. While Conservatives are today vocal opponents of attacks on their own supposed “free speech rights” by private (Section 230 protected) internet platforms, they are here in cahoots with much more serious state restrictions of free speech and peaceful boycott activity.

Does free speech cover incitement to violence?
I don't hear you complain about the KKK being banned.

Are you comparing the KKK to the Israeli state? I am not.

But Israelis for decades have argued that Palestinians were all terrorists. They ignored all the mass peaceful Palestinian boycotts and demonstrations against them. Now that they have basically seized all the occupied territories and will soon formally annex them.

Afraid of BDS movements, they now argue that peaceful boycotts and even just advocacy for peaceful boycotts even in the U.S. are “covers” for violence or “incitement to violence”!

Shame on Israel ... and shame on American society that has allowed right wing Zionists (and Christian Zionists like Pence and Pompeo) such power over our own federal and state governments!

No I'm comparing KKK to BDS,
same racist ideology, same obsession with skin-color,
same appeal to the irrational as the lowest common denominator in society.

Peaceful protests?

 

[P F Tinmore]

There is no doubt that state laws pushed by right-wing Zionists making peaceful boycotts illegal and even forbidding or limiting free speech advocating peaceful boycotts, is an outrageous attack on U.S. liberties. I agree it is also “patently obvious” that not allowing government contracts to be signed with organizations or companies that have specific political viewpoints (in this case favoring or supporting BDS) is a violation of basic rights. The right wing (or “liberal”) Zionists are interfering with free speech and political activity in all these cases, and Christian Zionists are involved in this as well. While Conservatives are today vocal opponents of attacks on their own supposed “free speech rights” by private (Section 230 protected) internet platforms, they are here in cahoots with much more serious state restrictions of free speech and peaceful boycott activity.

Does free speech cover incitement to violence?
I don't hear you complain about the KKK being banned.

Are you comparing the KKK to the Israeli state? I am not.

But Israelis for decades have argued that Palestinians were all terrorists. They ignored all the mass peaceful Palestinian boycotts and demonstrations against them. Now that they have basically seized all the occupied territories and will soon formally annex them.

Afraid of BDS movements, they now argue that peaceful boycotts and even just advocacy for peaceful boycotts even in the U.S. are “covers” for violence or “incitement to violence”!

Shame on Israel ... and shame on American society that has allowed right wing Zionists (and Christian Zionists like Pence and Pompeo) such power over our own federal and state governments!

No I'm comparing KKK to BDS,
same racist ideology, same obsession with skin-color,
same appeal to the irrational as the lowest common denominator in society.

Peaceful protests?

Are you portraying a one off as typical?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Peaceful protests?

Thousands of peaceful protests, legal protests, strikes, mass marches, sit downs, over decades and generations. Ignored. Was there violence too, on both side. Of course. But you can’t get more MLK-ish, more peaceful, than a boycott or divestment movement. Yet that is what you now unashamedly attack. You even attack mere advocacy and free speech in favor of boycotts — right here in my country!

 

[rylah]

Post anything from BDS that incitement.

So don't tell me you BDS-holes don't inciting to violence.

You folks are calling for violece on every campus,

not only against Israel but US as well.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Post anything from BDS that incitement.

So don't tell me you BDS-holes don't inciting to violence.

You folks are calling for violece on every campus,

not only against Israel but US as well.

2013? You really have to dig, don't you?

 

[rylah]

Peaceful protests?

Thousands of peaceful protests, legal protests, strikes, mass marches, sit downs, over decades and generations. Ignored. Was there violence too, on both side. Of course. But you can’t get more MLK-ish, more peaceful, than a boycott or divestment movement. Yet that is what you now unashamedly attack. You even attack mere advocacy and free speech in favor of boycotts — right here in my country!

That's just some abstract You draw to deflect from the actual issue.

These folks have just invited a plane hijacker
to speak in universities, and you call these peaceful,
but those who oppose this madness are the problem.

Right there in Your country.

Do You think incitement to violence on campuses,
and boycotts of ethnic groups and skin-colors
is what MLK stood for??

How sad for America.

 

[rylah]

Post anything from BDS that incitement.

So don't tell me you BDS-holes don't inciting to violence.

You folks are calling for violece on every campus,

not only against Israel but US as well.

2013? You really have to dig, don't you?

Here, we start with the excuses.

Do you want me to make this a thread about every BDS incitement to violence from 2012-2020, or do you want to have a discussion about how a call to eliminate a nation,
is an incitement to violence at the basis of all BDS activity?

BDS calls for the destruction of Israel,
a country of 9 million people.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Here, we start with the excuses...

The important point here is YOU are the one making EXCUSES for supporting and calling for STATE REPRESSION of free speech ... of Americans’ right to advocate and/or boycott Israeli ... or just West Bank companies.

Do you even consider the rights of Americans to free speech, advocacy, and boycott? Or is your loyalty to Israel and hatred for BDS so great that our rights don’t matter?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Here, we start with the excuses...

The important point here is YOU are the one making EXCUSES for supporting and calling for STATE REPRESSION of free speech ... of Americans’ right to advocate and/or boycott Israeli ... or just West Bank companies.

Do you even consider the rights of Americans to free speech, advocacy, and boycott? Or is your loyalty to Israel and hatred for BDS so great that our rights don’t matter?

Post of the day!

 

[rylah]

Here, we start with the excuses...

The important point here is YOU are the one making EXCUSES for supporting and calling for STATE REPRESSION of free speech ... of Americans’ right to advocate and/or boycott Israeli ... or just West Bank companies.

Do you even consider the rights of Americans to free speech, advocacy, and boycott? Or is your loyalty to Israel and hatred for BDS so great that our rights don’t matter?

That's what BDS want you to believe,
but not what the law actually says.


The law doesn't infringe on the right to boycott as an expression of free speech,
rather allows states to withdraw funds from contractors involved in the promotion of boycott.

And in this case a boycott of an ethnicity, not even for political change,
but rather to eliminate a minority and their state.

So get this - when I dared asking about your support for a boycott and a genocidal call against a minority, your response was to play the victim, and question my loyalty.
which could work to intimidate dhimmi Jews into submission, not Israelis.

But this is exactly what BDS is all about.

And get this - the same people who support a racist boycott against Israel,
are the ones calling boycotts a "repression" when states decide to withdraw their funds.

While the BDS-hole who thinks you're the cutest,
just posted suggesting "Jews should get off the way".

Wanna boycott me, then do, I really don't care too much.
Though we both know none of them ever really did or will -
BDS-holes will keep buying Israeli while demanding others not.

Wanna support those who call to eliminate Israel, or incite to violence against the Jewish community in your country - you're into a whole different game. But don't whine when people, businesses and states boycott you back, after all that's what you've asked for.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

That's what BDS want you to believe,
but not what the law actually says.

You talk absurdly about “the law,” when in fact on State and Federal levels there is a wide-ranging campaign to destroy BDS and isolate and punish BDS advocates, and that campaign (pushed in state legislatures and everywhere by right wing Zionists) is being widely opposed on civil liberties, libertarian and Constitutional grounds. There are some 30 present state anti-BDS laws, plus Federal Congressional resolutions, and presidential executive orders now in effect. There have been hundreds of these assaults and the majority have been already defeated in the courts or legislatures. These encompass different kinds of assaults on the right to boycott, advocate, or render aid, on behalf of Palestinian rights or opposed to Israeli expansion.

An idea of the amazing extent of the anti-BDS legal offensive can be found here: Home - Legislation

Of course I am not in agreement with the politics of every member of BDS, nor with all the policies of the present leadership of the main international BDS organization, but I most definitely support targeted BDS efforts focused on Israeli operations in the Occupied Territories.

You want to treat all supporters of BDS and Palestinian rights as ignorant fools or simple anti-Semites who “raise a genocidal call” and “want to eliminate a [Jewish] minority and their state” — a position than hides the reality of Palestinian oppression in an expanding, powerful, U.S-backed, nuclear armed Jewish state, which is moreover today in alliance with reactionary Arab Gulf Oil monarchs and U.S. imperialism in the Middle East.

 

[P F Tinmore]

UNGA affirming Syri's sovereignty over Golan Heights and Palestinian people over their land.

 

[Hollie]

UNGA affirming Syri's sovereignty over Golan Heights and Palestinian people over their land.

UN opining.

 

[rylah]

That's what BDS want you to believe,
but not what the law actually says.

You talk absurdly about “the law,” when in fact on State and Federal levels there is a wide-ranging campaign to destroy BDS and isolate and punish BDS advocates, and that campaign (pushed in state legislatures and everywhere by right wing Zionists) is being widely opposed on civil liberties, libertarian and Constitutional grounds. There are some 30 present state anti-BDS laws, plus Federal Congressional resolutions, and presidential executive orders now in effect. There have been hundreds of these assaults and the majority have been already defeated in the courts or legislatures. These encompass different kinds of assaults on the right to boycott, advocate, or render aid, on behalf of Palestinian rights or opposed to Israeli expansion.

An idea of the amazing extent of the anti-BDS legal offensive can be found here: Home - Legislation

Of course I am not in agreement with the politics of every member of BDS, nor with all the policies of the present leadership of the main international BDS organization, but I most definitely support targeted BDS efforts focused on Israeli operations in the Occupied Territories.

You want to treat all supporters of BDS and Palestinian rights as ignorant fools or simple anti-Semites who “raise a genocidal call” and “want to eliminate a [Jewish] minority and their state” — a position than hides the reality of Palestinian oppression in an expanding, powerful, U.S-backed, nuclear armed Jewish state, which is moreover today in alliance with reactionary Arab Gulf Oil monarchs and U.S. imperialism in the Middle East.

But don't you think you come from a very one sided perspective?

For example, instead of actually adressing the genocidal calls against the Jewish nation,
you shower me with talking points about left vs right and how you "don't agree with everything", and how it's me who is wrong for "treating you" unfairly for asking this,
rather than, you know, supporting folks who openly call to eliminate my nation.

Seriously how can we have a discussion if you can't adress this.
And I'm not saying there aren't like another 100 themes on this that we can argue endlessly

So why do we put all the slogans aside, and talk like normal people?
Because, what do you want? To boycott me, I basically don't care, you know life and stuff...
And frankly I never though my knowledge or opinions on any foreign conflict were of relevance to go out and boycott someone.

However we were talking, and it was reasonable to raise those questions I've raised. Becaused most of our disagreement, and the action taken against BDS, I think, is because there's are demonstratively an unwilling in any way seriously address these genocidal calls,
racist blood libels, harassment on campuses, incitement to violence...



So tell me do you think it's a good cause? I know and yes repect that you may disagree on 10000 and 1 issue regarding how Israelis conduct things, we Israelis critique that day and night, but for someone who would sincerely want to just boycott beleiving this may cause a political change, not elimination of a state or pretentiously promote further conflict,
is all this BDS bigotry recquired?

In my opinion, if a person wants to boycott my state he's not prevented in any way,
but a state is not obliged to fund such organizations, and it's appropriate.

If there was a simillar radical anti-American or anti-UAE organization spreading bloodlibels and inciting to violence against you and them in Israel, I would expect that to be outlawed.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Hollie]

Let’s hope the Arabs-Moslems don’t blow anything up.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

That's what BDS want you to believe,
but not what the law actually says.

You talk absurdly about “the law,” when in fact on State and Federal levels there is a wide-ranging campaign to destroy BDS and isolate and punish BDS advocates, and that campaign (pushed in state legislatures and everywhere by right wing Zionists) is being widely opposed on civil liberties, libertarian and Constitutional grounds. There are some 30 present state anti-BDS laws, plus Federal Congressional resolutions, and presidential executive orders now in effect. There have been hundreds of these assaults and the majority have been already defeated in the courts or legislatures. These encompass different kinds of assaults on the right to boycott, advocate, or render aid, on behalf of Palestinian rights or opposed to Israeli expansion.

An idea of the amazing extent of the anti-BDS legal offensive can be found here: Home - Legislation

Of course I am not in agreement with the politics of every member of BDS, nor with all the policies of the present leadership of the main international BDS organization, but I most definitely support targeted BDS efforts focused on Israeli operations in the Occupied Territories.

You want to treat all supporters of BDS and Palestinian rights as ignorant fools or simple anti-Semites who “raise a genocidal call” and “want to eliminate a [Jewish] minority and their state” — a position than hides the reality of Palestinian oppression in an expanding, powerful, U.S-backed, nuclear armed Jewish state, which is moreover today in alliance with reactionary Arab Gulf Oil monarchs and U.S. imperialism in the Middle East.

But don't you think you come from a very one sided perspective?

For example, instead of actually adressing the genocidal calls against the Jewish nation,
you shower me with talking points about left vs right and how you "don't agree with everything", and how it's me who is wrong for "treating you" unfairly for asking this,
rather than, you know, supporting folks who openly call to eliminate my nation.

Seriously how can we have a discussion if you can't adress this.
And I'm not saying there aren't like another 100 themes on this that we can argue endlessly

So why do we put all the slogans aside, and talk like normal people?
Because, what do you want? To boycott me, I basically don't care, you know life and stuff...
And frankly I never though my knowledge or opinions on any foreign conflict were of relevance to go out and boycott someone.

However we were talking, and it was reasonable to raise those questions I've raised. Becaused most of our disagreement, and the action taken against BDS, I think, is because there's are demonstratively an unwilling in any way seriously address these genocidal calls,
racist blood libels, harassment on campuses, incitement to violence...



So tell me do you think it's a good cause? I know and yes repect that you may disagree on 10000 and 1 issue regarding how Israelis conduct things, we Israelis critique that day and night, but for someone who would sincerely want to just boycott beleiving this may cause a political change, not elimination of a state or pretentiously promote further conflict,
is all this BDS bigotry recquired?

In my opinion, if a person wants to boycott my state he's not prevented in any way,
but a state is not obliged to fund such organizations, and it's appropriate.

If there was a simillar radical anti-American or anti-UAE organization spreading bloodlibels and inciting to violence against you and them in Israel, I would expect that to be outlawed.

I like this response, rylah . There are, as you say, many other issues we could discuss, including “blood libels” and anti-Semitism, and of course all aspects of the Israeli-Palestinian problem.

There are, too, differences between the Palestinian-led international BDS movement and local, including American BDS chapters with many liberal Jewish members. I surely would agree with you to one extent or another on many issues, and disagree with PF Tinmore, though I haven’t read any of his many older comments.

Forgive me, but I really am not interested in participating here in a wide ranging discussion. The larger issues have been wrestled with by smarter and more knowledgeable people than I for decades, and as I have indicated the Palestinian cause is weaker than ever, and Israel stronger than ever.

In general I feel that the whole Zionist endeavor — and the Arab reaction to it — has had catastrophic impact on most of the peoples in this part of the world. This is not a judgement on Jewish people or their absolutely understandable desire for a homeland and nation of their own. But it is a tragic reality. Of course imperialism and the “curse of oil,” as well as many other historical factors unrelated to Israel went into creating tragic Middle Eastern wars, civil wars, failed states, failed Arab nationalist and mad theocratic movements.

My polemical tone against you was narrowly focused, which I think you now realize. You still may disagree with me, but I think my position is clear and correct. I have written angrily elsewhere in USMB against what I consider the even more outrageous pro-Israel (and basically pro-imperialist) “anti-anti-Semitism” campaign against Corbyn and the Labour Party “left” in Great Britain.

We may have occasion to argue over many Israeli and Middle East policy questions in the future. There are far too many such issues to discuss here and now, as I’m sure you will agree.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[P F Tinmore]