Alien Life? You better hope God exists!

[Boss]

God is a genderless Spiritual Energy... a thing, not a person.

Spirit by definition is incorporeal, and therefore NOT "a thing."

I disagree with your definition. A "thing" doesn't have to be material or physical. A dream or thought is a thing.... Love is a thing. These things do not have material or physical presence, yet they are still things which still exist. Dark energy and dark matter comprise 96% of the universe, yet they have no material or physical presence. They are as incorporeal as Spiritual Nature.

 

[G.T.]

Setting aside religion, at some point, don't you have to consider the number of miraculous events which had to happen as they did, for intelligent life to exist here? What would be the odds of those same events happening elsewhere?

That "logic" is based on the pompous fallacious assumption that ALL intelligent life MUST be exactly like us!!! NOT a very intelligent assumption. To other possible intelligent life, YOU may be no more "intelligent" than an insect.

The fact remains, the ONLY intelligent life we have to go by is our own. Unless we find life existing elsewhere, under a different set of variables and conditions, the only intelligent and logical assumption to make is that which is self evident. We cannot assume that life could even exist under a different set of variables and conditions. I'm not saying it's impossible, only that, whatever forces enabled the special circumstances in play here, would also be in play elsewhere, if life exists.

Your last point is actually a very good one. We have a word in which we invented to define what we realize as human cognizant rationalization and thought... Intelligent. We have no way of knowing or understanding anything beyond that. This is where I think a strong argument can be made for Spiritual Nature. If it's possible for you to rationalize that what we perceive as "intelligence" might only be on the level of an insect in relation to a superior intelligence, then it's possible for an omniscient Creator to exist. So you've actually, unwittingly, made a rational argument for the existence of God. Good work!

its a logical assumption that our conditions are the only ones that would allow intelligent life, simply because we cant explore otherwise?

Thats retarded.

 

[Boss]

Pure hogwash! Dinos were NOT the only form of life that existed before the biggest ones were killed off, so there is nothing to guarantee that they had to die off for humans to exist.

Well, but there is scientific evidence and that's what we have to go by. For about 150 million years, dinosaurs ruled the planet. There were other life forms but nothing as large as dinosaurs. Mammals, in particular, were very small and for all those years, they couldn't evolve to a larger species because they were a food source. Archaeology and paleontology suggest that mammals only began to take off in size and scope, AFTER the dinosaurs. When they were no longer hunted as a predatory food source.

Now, there is no way to prove a negative, so I can't state that it's not possible that humans would've never evolved unless the dinosaurs became extinct, but if we go by what science tells us, that seems to be a fairly logical and reasonable assumption.

 

[Boss]

its a logical assumption that our conditions are the only ones that would allow intelligent life, simply because we cant explore otherwise?

Thats retarded.

It's because we have no evidence to the contrary.
Assuming to have evidence we don't have.... that's retarded.

 

[G.T.]

its a logical assumption that our conditions are the only ones that would allow intelligent life, simply because we cant explore otherwise?

Thats retarded.

It's because we have no evidence to the contrary.
Assuming to have evidence we don't have.... that's retarded.

We have no evidence for a reason, and the reason isnt if its there or not....the reason is the ability to explore.

To call it a logical assumption that because we cant explore, we are a good assumption to be the only possible way is disturbingly short sighted and shows zero understanding of a relatively infinite sized universe.

 

[sealybobo]

the formation of "intelligent life" never happens without certain cosmic events that aren't "normal" in terms of nature itself. If nothing had eliminated the dinosaurs, mammals like humans could've never existed.

Pure hogwash! Dinos were NOT the only form of life that existed before the biggest ones were killed off, so there is nothing to guarantee that they had to die off for humans to exist.

Also he says if nothing eliminated the dinosaurs. It was an asteroid or meteor not god. But boss will give god credit for doing it.

But why bother? Why not just poof them away same way you poofed them into existence

 

[sealybobo]

If a creator created us he did it be planting a seed. That means all life is related. Theists have the poof hypothesis.

This god also intentional murdered all the dinosaurs and moved a Moon here.

Okay, so... the moon is very important to life on Earth. It is the moon which keeps Earth in gyroscopic orbit. Without that, we would not have seasons. Think about how many life forms are totally dependent on seasons for their reproductive cycles? In other words, they would not be possible without the changes in season. It also is responsible for the oceanic tides. Think about how many life forms in the ocean are totally dependent on the tides for reproduction? This life could not be possible without the tides created by the gravitational force of the moon.

True. So? Whaat conclusion are you making from this?

 

[sealybobo]

its a logical assumption that our conditions are the only ones that would allow intelligent life, simply because we cant explore otherwise?

Thats retarded.

It's because we have no evidence to the contrary.
Assuming to have evidence we don't have.... that's retarded.

I seriously want to know why did god go through billions of years of trilobites ruling this earth, then dinosaurs, then the meteor. You cherry pick from science. Why didn’t god just poof earth with us ruling it? And did he poof these creatures into and out of existence too? Your poof theory doesn’t seem to fit with facts logic reason or science.

So how does any scientist believe in the poof theory?

 

[Boss]

its a logical assumption that our conditions are the only ones that would allow intelligent life, simply because we cant explore otherwise?

Thats retarded.

It's because we have no evidence to the contrary.
Assuming to have evidence we don't have.... that's retarded.

We have no evidence for a reason, and the reason isnt if its there or not....the reason is the ability to explore.

To call it a logical assumption that because we cant explore, we are a good assumption to be the only possible way is disturbingly short sighted and shows zero understanding of a relatively infinite sized universe.

But that's not what I said.

The universe is not infinite. It's very large, I'll grant you that. But IF the universe is infinite it is eternal and if it's teaming with life, then you've just defined eternal life... was that intentional or by accident?

It's disturbingly short sighted to not comprehend all the complexities involved with why and how life exists here on Earth, the only place we know of where life does exist. To completely dismiss the millions of potentials which had to line up precisely in order for "life as we know it" to exist and assume that, somehow, life could've found some other way to exist elsewhere... that's sheer faith. You have zero evidence to support that faith, so it's actually blind faith. Not saying it isn't possible.... anything is possible. Including a Creator God who sets the potentials in order for life to exist.

 

[G.T.]

its a logical assumption that our conditions are the only ones that would allow intelligent life, simply because we cant explore otherwise?

Thats retarded.

It's because we have no evidence to the contrary.
Assuming to have evidence we don't have.... that's retarded.

We have no evidence for a reason, and the reason isnt if its there or not....the reason is the ability to explore.

To call it a logical assumption that because we cant explore, we are a good assumption to be the only possible way is disturbingly short sighted and shows zero understanding of a relatively infinite sized universe.

But that's not what I said.

The universe is not infinite. It's very large, I'll grant you that. But IF the universe is infinite it is eternal and if it's teaming with life, then you've just defined eternal life... was that intentional or by accident?

It's disturbingly short sighted to not comprehend all the complexities involved with why and how life exists here on Earth, the only place we know of where life does exist. To completely dismiss the millions of potentials which had to line up precisely in order for "life as we know it" to exist and assume that, somehow, life could've found some other way to exist elsewhere... that's sheer faith. You have zero evidence to support that faith, so it's actually blind faith. Not saying it isn't possible.... anything is possible. Including a Creator God who sets the potentials in order for life to exist.

I didnt say its infinite, shakespeare....I said relatively

what a waste of a post. youre way too much ego for these chats, dude

 

[Boss]

I seriously want to know why did god go through billions of years of trilobites ruling this earth, then dinosaurs, then the meteor. You cherry pick from science. Why didn’t god just poof earth with us ruling it? And did he poof these creatures into and out of existence too? Your poof theory doesn’t seem to fit with facts logic reason or science.

So how does any scientist believe in the poof theory?

Well because God (Spiritual Nature) is not confined to the physical dimensions of time or space. Billions of years to God means nothing. It's a physical measurement which applies to physical things. I know that's hard to wrap your mind around but that's the whole concept and you're completely missing it.

Again with the "poofing" ...We both believe in that because life does exist. It didn't ALWAYS exist... unless life is eternal, and therefore, God is the Universe! So no matter what you believe in or don't believe in with regard to God, it's apparent that life does exist and it came into existence from somewhere (aka: POOFED!)

The ONLY difference in our beliefs is: You believe some unidentified and unexplained physical force is responsible for the poofing and I believe Spiritual Nature is responsible. I support my belief on the basis of logic and reason because physical nature cannot have created itself... it's a paradox. Whereas, you cannot offer any explanation at this time.

 

[sealybobo]

its a logical assumption that our conditions are the only ones that would allow intelligent life, simply because we cant explore otherwise?

Thats retarded.

It's because we have no evidence to the contrary.
Assuming to have evidence we don't have.... that's retarded.

We have no evidence for a reason, and the reason isnt if its there or not....the reason is the ability to explore.

To call it a logical assumption that because we cant explore, we are a good assumption to be the only possible way is disturbingly short sighted and shows zero understanding of a relatively infinite sized universe.

But that's not what I said.

The universe is not infinite. It's very large, I'll grant you that. But IF the universe is infinite it is eternal and if it's teaming with life, then you've just defined eternal life... was that intentional or by accident?

It's disturbingly short sighted to not comprehend all the complexities involved with why and how life exists here on Earth, the only place we know of where life does exist. To completely dismiss the millions of potentials which had to line up precisely in order for "life as we know it" to exist and assume that, somehow, life could've found some other way to exist elsewhere... that's sheer faith. You have zero evidence to support that faith, so it's actually blind faith. Not saying it isn't possible.... anything is possible. Including a Creator God who sets the potentials in order for life to exist.

The universes beyond our universe die too. Circle of life. What’s beyond our universe. It’s not god

 

[sealybobo]

I seriously want to know why did god go through billions of years of trilobites ruling this earth, then dinosaurs, then the meteor. You cherry pick from science. Why didn’t god just poof earth with us ruling it? And did he poof these creatures into and out of existence too? Your poof theory doesn’t seem to fit with facts logic reason or science.

So how does any scientist believe in the poof theory?

Well because God (Spiritual Nature) is not confined to the physical dimensions of time or space. Billions of years to God means nothing. It's a physical measurement which applies to physical things. I know that's hard to wrap your mind around but that's the whole concept and you're completely missing it.

Again with the "poofing" ...We both believe in that because life does exist. It didn't ALWAYS exist... unless life is eternal, and therefore, God is the Universe! So no matter what you believe in or don't believe in with regard to God, it's apparent that life does exist and it came into existence from somewhere (aka: POOFED!)

The ONLY difference in our beliefs is: You believe some unidentified and unexplained physical force is responsible for the poofing and I believe Spiritual Nature is responsible. I support my belief on the basis of logic and reason because physical nature cannot have created itself... it's a paradox. Whereas, you cannot offer any explanation at this time.

Of course the universes are confined to science. They are born live and die. The cosmos are alive you can clearly see. You are a part of it.

Anyways this is something we need to stop telling our children this lie. I just realized this is how we are holding the masses back. Instead of telling a young child the scientific truth we lie about a creator and we point to holy books as evidence. Your denial of evolution and global warming are evidence

 

[Boss]

If a creator created us he did it be planting a seed. That means all life is related. Theists have the poof hypothesis.

This god also intentional murdered all the dinosaurs and moved a Moon here.

Okay, so... the moon is very important to life on Earth. It is the moon which keeps Earth in gyroscopic orbit. Without that, we would not have seasons. Think about how many life forms are totally dependent on seasons for their reproductive cycles? In other words, they would not be possible without the changes in season. It also is responsible for the oceanic tides. Think about how many life forms in the ocean are totally dependent on the tides for reproduction? This life could not be possible without the tides created by the gravitational force of the moon.

True. So? Whaat conclusion are you making from this?

Well, if billions of various life forms are vitally dependent on the dynamics present because of the moon, seasons and tides, then we have to conclude they probably couldn't have existed and evolved into what we have today. I mean, how can a life cycle who's reproduction relies on seasons happen if there are no seasons?

Now... with all the trillions of planetary possibilities, it's entirely possible that some other planet just so happened to benefit from the "trick shot" of another body careening off of it at just the right angle to set it into a weird wobbling rotation, where a large chunk of it's discarded planetary debris coalesced into a proper sized moon in just the right orbit to create a gyroscopic effect, creating seasons and tides... oh yeah, and it just so happened to have abundant liquid oceans enabled by atmospheric pressure which was the result of several other variables in play.. and oh yeah, it also just so happened to "luck out" and get a molten core of iron and nickel which gave it a protective electromagnetic field to shield living things from cosmic radiation... and then, by some unknown mechanism, life originated there... THEN.... it evolved over millions of years into intelligent life. Yeah, I'll admit that's a possibility. I just think if it happened, God had something to do with it.

 

[Boss]

The universes beyond our universe die too. Circle of life. What’s beyond our universe. It’s not god

You don't if there is a universe beyond our universe. You DO understand what "UNI" means, correct? It means ONE! So it's actually an oxymoron to say "universes beyond our universe" because a "universe" is the only one. I understand you mean "multiverse" but that is a theory... and ironically, it's a theory we can never prove. So from a "scientific method" perspective, it's no different than a theory of God or a Flying Spaghetti Monster.

 

[Boss]

Of course the universes are confined to science. They are born live and die. The cosmos are alive you can clearly see. You are a part of it.

Anyways this is something we need to stop telling our children this lie. I just realized this is how we are holding the masses back. Instead of telling a young child the scientific truth we lie about a creator and we point to holy books as evidence. Your denial of evolution and global warming are evidence

You know, I was thinking about this the other day. Back when Isaac Newton was writing Principia and formulating the Laws of Motion.... people of that time were sharing the story of Jesus Christ, the baby in the manger, the Great Flood, Moses parting the Red Sea and the Ten Commandments..... all of that was being discussed among the people of the time. In fact, Newton himself spent the later part of his life writing what would eventually become the basis for modern Protestant Doctrine. He acknowledged a "mercurial spirit" coursing through our universe which could not be explained by physics which he largely created.

When Constantine ruled over Rome, he was the first emperor to convert to Christianity. He was instrumental in the Edict of Milan which delivered religious tolerance for Christianity throughout the Roman Empire. This particular religious belief was very important to the people of that time, just as it is today.

But let's go back WAY further... let's go back 70,000 years to Lake Mungo. This is where we've found the remains of some of the oldest human civilization. They actually buried the dead with ceremonial rituals using red ocher. This means, even way back then, humans believed in spiritual nature.... something greater beyond the physical.

Now, all of a sudden... just in your lifetime, you have some silly obscure notion that something you have to say is going to simply erase all those years of human thought? That, somehow, mankind is simply going to abandon thinking about the spirit or spiritual things because... you're "smarter" than anyone ever to have roamed the Earth? Because you've adopted a faith-based belief in theories you cannot prove... and that's the whole basis on which you think humanity is to abandon it's age old beliefs. That's just incredible to me that you would even contemplate such a thing.

 

[edthecynic]

Think about how many life forms are totally dependent on seasons for their reproductive cycles? In other words, they would not be possible without the changes in season. It also is responsible for the oceanic tides. Think about how many life forms in the ocean are totally dependent on the tides for reproduction? This life could not be possible without the tides created by the gravitational force of the moon.

Again, pure hogwash.
Many life forms have no dependence on seasons or tides. Humans for one!!!!!

 

[Boss]

Again, pure hogwash.
Many life forms have no dependence on seasons or tides. Humans for one!!!!!

How did humans get here?

 

[edthecynic]

Your last point is actually a very good one. We have a word in which we invented to define what we realize as human cognizant rationalization and thought... Intelligent. We have no way of knowing or understanding anything beyond that. This is where I think a strong argument can be made for Spiritual Nature. If it's possible for you to rationalize that what we perceive as "intelligence" might only be on the level of an insect in relation to a superior intelligence, then it's possible for an omniscient Creator to exist. So you've actually, unwittingly, made a rational argument for the existence of God. Good work!

It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God - but to create him.
- Arthur C. Clarke

 

[edthecynic]

Again, pure hogwash.
Many life forms have no dependence on seasons or tides. Humans for one!!!!!

How did humans get here?

What does that have to do with your false assumption that seasons and tides are essential for life?
The answer is NOTHING, it was a rhetorical question.

Not even the sun is essential for life, there are bacteria that eat rocks!!!