Ah Yes.. The Tolerant IrrRev. Wright!

[Newby]

He did?


Obama: ""The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity, but that she is a typical white person. If she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know - there's a reaction in her that's been bred into our experiences that don't go away and sometimes come out in the wrong way and that's just the nature of race in our society. We have to break through it. What makes me optimistic is you see each generation feeling less like that. And that's pretty powerful stuff""

So, what does he think is a 'typical white person' then?

He said it in the quote.

Sounds like a racist, stereo typical pov to me, and making a huge assumption about 'typical white people'...

 

[Annie]

smearing left by association

 

[Vel]

Are you being serious?

absolutely. whether or not that should disqualify her for scotus is another question, but she is emphatically prejudiced in favor of hispanics and women, IMO.

Fair enough. It seems no one is allowed to take pride in their gender or ethnic heritage.

Hmm.. How do you feel a a white man being proud of his gender and ethnic heritage? Is he allowed to be proud to be white? Is it ok if he feels that his maleness and his whiteness will lead him to a better conclusion than a Latina woman would reach?

 

[Coyote]

So, what does he think is a 'typical white person' then?

He said it in the quote.

Sounds like a racist, stereo typical pov to me, and making a huge assumption about 'typical white people'...

It's human nature to make generalizations and assumptions about other groups - often assumptions made in ignorance.

If those assumptions include views based on genetic racial superiority or inferiority then it would be racist. But then again - people constantly like to throw out the "racist" label without thinking about what racism really is.

People seem to think that any reference to race is racist, any racial generalizations are "racist", any expressions of pride in your ethnicity, gender, culture might be racist.....

 

[Coyote]

absolutely. whether or not that should disqualify her for scotus is another question, but she is emphatically prejudiced in favor of hispanics and women, IMO.

Fair enough. It seems no one is allowed to take pride in their gender or ethnic heritage.

Hmm.. How do you feel a a white man being proud of his gender and ethnic heritage? Is he allowed to be proud to be white?

That would be fine. Our town has a strong ethnic Italian heritage and they celebrate it with annual festivals and other events. What is wrong with that?

Is it ok if he feels that his maleness and his whiteness will lead him to a better conclusion than a Latina woman would reach?

The Rightwing Pundits love to continually bring that up and distort it by leaving out most of the quotes.....

Whether born from experience or inherent physiological or cultural differences, a possibility I abhor less or discount less than my colleague Judge Cedarbaum, our gender and national origins may and will make a difference in our judging. Justice O’Connor has often been cited as saying that a wise old man and wise old woman will reach the same conclusion in deciding cases. I am not so sure Justice O’Connor is the author of that line since Professor Resnik attributes that line to Supreme Court Justice Coyle. I am also not so sure that I agree with the statement. First, as Professor Martha Minnow has noted, there can never be a universal definition of wise. Second, I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life.

If HE would hope that his gender and his cultural background would lead him to reach a better conclusion (in race and sex discrimination cases) - then a black woman who had not lived that life....

I wouldn't call it "racist" but it would sound nonsensical and silly.

 

[Vel]

Fair enough. It seems no one is allowed to take pride in their gender or ethnic heritage.

Hmm.. How do you feel a a white man being proud of his gender and ethnic heritage? Is he allowed to be proud to be white?

That would be fine. Our town has a strong ethnic Italian heritage and they celebrate it with annual festivals and other events. What is wrong with that?

Is it ok if he feels that his maleness and his whiteness will lead him to a better conclusion than a Latina woman would reach?

The Rightwing Pundits love to continually bring that up and distort it by leaving out most of the quotes.....

Whether born from experience or inherent physiological or cultural differences, a possibility I abhor less or discount less than my colleague Judge Cedarbaum, our gender and national origins may and will make a difference in our judging. Justice O’Connor has often been cited as saying that a wise old man and wise old woman will reach the same conclusion in deciding cases. I am not so sure Justice O’Connor is the author of that line since Professor Resnik attributes that line to Supreme Court Justice Coyle. I am also not so sure that I agree with the statement. First, as Professor Martha Minnow has noted, there can never be a universal definition of wise. Second, I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life.

If HE would hope that his gender and his cultural background would lead him to reach a better conclusion (in race and sex discrimination cases) - then a black woman who had not lived that life....

I wouldn't call it "racist" but it would sound nonsensical and silly.

Bless your heart, you can take Sotomayor's comment and twist it anyway you please and it still smacks of racism and chauvinism. Good try though.

 

[Coyote]

Hmm.. How do you feel a a white man being proud of his gender and ethnic heritage? Is he allowed to be proud to be white?

That would be fine. Our town has a strong ethnic Italian heritage and they celebrate it with annual festivals and other events. What is wrong with that?



The Rightwing Pundits love to continually bring that up and distort it by leaving out most of the quotes.....

Whether born from experience or inherent physiological or cultural differences, a possibility I abhor less or discount less than my colleague Judge Cedarbaum, our gender and national origins may and will make a difference in our judging. Justice O’Connor has often been cited as saying that a wise old man and wise old woman will reach the same conclusion in deciding cases. I am not so sure Justice O’Connor is the author of that line since Professor Resnik attributes that line to Supreme Court Justice Coyle. I am also not so sure that I agree with the statement. First, as Professor Martha Minnow has noted, there can never be a universal definition of wise. Second, I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life.

If HE would hope that his gender and his cultural background would lead him to reach a better conclusion (in race and sex discrimination cases) - then a black woman who had not lived that life....

I wouldn't call it "racist" but it would sound nonsensical and silly.

Bless your heart, you can take Sotomayor's comment and twist it anyway you please and it still smacks of racism and chauvinism. Good try though.

So...are you saying that context is irrelevant then?

Contextomy : the selective excerpting of words from their original linguistic context in a way that distorts the source’s intended meaning, a practice commonly referred to as "quoting out of context".

It's amazing what removing context can do to a quote:

A series of political ads this past election:

McCain said "I don't believe we're headed into a recession." (the ad left out the rest of his statement where he also said that at this time, the American economy was in "a rough patch.")

McCain said: "...there's been great progress economically." (but it left out the much longer part where he went on to say that the "progress" made during Bush's tenure still wouldn't console American families who are facing "tremendous economic challenges.")

McCain said: "...we have had a pretty good prosperous time, with low unemployment," (and left out his full rersponse where McCain went on to say "things are tough right now.")

What conclusions are we left with?

Without context? McCain is out of touch with economic reality.
With context? McCain is aware of the economic reality of this country. (or at least thinks he is)

Or...how about all the out-of-context quotes about Al Gore?

The Rightwing Pundits like to say Al Gore claims that he discovered the Love Canal toxic waste dump. "I was the one that started it all," Al Gore said.

That's without context.

What is the context?

Source: Consortiumnews.com

The Love Canal quote controversy began on Nov. 30, 1999, when Gore was speaking to a group of high school students in Concord, N.H. He was exhorting the students to reject cynicism and to recognize that individual citizens can effect important changes.

As an example, he cited a high school girl from Toone, Tenn., a town that had experienced problems with toxic waste. She brought the issue to the attention of Gore's congressional office in the late 1970s.

"I called for a congressional investigation and a hearing," Gore told the students. "I looked around the country for other sites like that. I found a little place in upstate New York called Love Canal. Had the first hearing on that issue, and Toone, Tennessee – that was the one that you didn't hear of. But that was the one that started it all."

After the hearings, Gore said, "we passed a major national law to clean up hazardous dump sites. And we had new efforts to stop the practices that ended up poisoning water around the country. We've still got work to do. But we made a huge difference. And it all happened because one high school student got involved."

That sure changes the meaning.

I'm sure you won't think context is so irrelevant when it's one of your rightwing heroes being misquoted and smeared.

 

[L.K.Eder]

smearing left by association

are you grading threads?

 

[Vel]

That would be fine. Our town has a strong ethnic Italian heritage and they celebrate it with annual festivals and other events. What is wrong with that?



The Rightwing Pundits love to continually bring that up and distort it by leaving out most of the quotes.....



If HE would hope that his gender and his cultural background would lead him to reach a better conclusion (in race and sex discrimination cases) - then a black woman who had not lived that life....

I wouldn't call it "racist" but it would sound nonsensical and silly.

Bless your heart, you can take Sotomayor's comment and twist it anyway you please and it still smacks of racism and chauvinism. Good try though.

So...are you saying that context is irrelevant then?

Contextomy : the selective excerpting of words from their original linguistic context in a way that distorts the source’s intended meaning, a practice commonly referred to as "quoting out of context".

It's amazing what removing context can do to a quote:

A series of political ads this past election:

McCain said "I don't believe we're headed into a recession." (the ad left out the rest of his statement where he also said that at this time, the American economy was in "a rough patch.")

McCain said: "...there's been great progress economically." (but it left out the much longer part where he went on to say that the "progress" made during Bush's tenure still wouldn't console American families who are facing "tremendous economic challenges.")

McCain said: "...we have had a pretty good prosperous time, with low unemployment," (and left out his full rersponse where McCain went on to say "things are tough right now.")

What conclusions are we left with?

Without context? McCain is out of touch with economic reality.
With context? McCain is aware of the economic reality of this country. (or at least thinks he is)

Or...how about all the out-of-context quotes about Al Gore?

The Rightwing Pundits like to say Al Gore claims that he discovered the Love Canal toxic waste dump. "I was the one that started it all," Al Gore said.

That's without context.

What is the context?

Source: Consortiumnews.com

The Love Canal quote controversy began on Nov. 30, 1999, when Gore was speaking to a group of high school students in Concord, N.H. He was exhorting the students to reject cynicism and to recognize that individual citizens can effect important changes.

As an example, he cited a high school girl from Toone, Tenn., a town that had experienced problems with toxic waste. She brought the issue to the attention of Gore's congressional office in the late 1970s.

"I called for a congressional investigation and a hearing," Gore told the students. "I looked around the country for other sites like that. I found a little place in upstate New York called Love Canal. Had the first hearing on that issue, and Toone, Tennessee – that was the one that you didn't hear of. But that was the one that started it all."

After the hearings, Gore said, "we passed a major national law to clean up hazardous dump sites. And we had new efforts to stop the practices that ended up poisoning water around the country. We've still got work to do. But we made a huge difference. And it all happened because one high school student got involved."

That sure changes the meaning.

I'm sure you won't think context is so irrelevant when it's one of your rightwing heroes being misquoted and smeared.

No. What I meant was that Sotomayor's comments even taken IN the context they were written still smacks of racism and chauvinism. Is that clear enough?

 

[Coyote]

Bless your heart, you can take Sotomayor's comment and twist it anyway you please and it still smacks of racism and chauvinism. Good try though.

So...are you saying that context is irrelevant then?

Contextomy : the selective excerpting of words from their original linguistic context in a way that distorts the source’s intended meaning, a practice commonly referred to as "quoting out of context".

It's amazing what removing context can do to a quote:

A series of political ads this past election:

McCain said "I don't believe we're headed into a recession." (the ad left out the rest of his statement where he also said that at this time, the American economy was in "a rough patch.")

McCain said: "...there's been great progress economically." (but it left out the much longer part where he went on to say that the "progress" made during Bush's tenure still wouldn't console American families who are facing "tremendous economic challenges.")

McCain said: "...we have had a pretty good prosperous time, with low unemployment," (and left out his full rersponse where McCain went on to say "things are tough right now.")

What conclusions are we left with?

Without context? McCain is out of touch with economic reality.
With context? McCain is aware of the economic reality of this country. (or at least thinks he is)

Or...how about all the out-of-context quotes about Al Gore?

The Rightwing Pundits like to say Al Gore claims that he discovered the Love Canal toxic waste dump. "I was the one that started it all," Al Gore said.

That's without context.

What is the context?

Source: Consortiumnews.com

The Love Canal quote controversy began on Nov. 30, 1999, when Gore was speaking to a group of high school students in Concord, N.H. He was exhorting the students to reject cynicism and to recognize that individual citizens can effect important changes.

As an example, he cited a high school girl from Toone, Tenn., a town that had experienced problems with toxic waste. She brought the issue to the attention of Gore's congressional office in the late 1970s.

"I called for a congressional investigation and a hearing," Gore told the students. "I looked around the country for other sites like that. I found a little place in upstate New York called Love Canal. Had the first hearing on that issue, and Toone, Tennessee – that was the one that you didn't hear of. But that was the one that started it all."

After the hearings, Gore said, "we passed a major national law to clean up hazardous dump sites. And we had new efforts to stop the practices that ended up poisoning water around the country. We've still got work to do. But we made a huge difference. And it all happened because one high school student got involved."

That sure changes the meaning.

I'm sure you won't think context is so irrelevant when it's one of your rightwing heroes being misquoted and smeared.

No. What I meant was that Sotomayor's comments even taken IN the context they were written still smacks of racism and chauvinism. Is that clear enough?

Clear as mud.