Agree or not: The rich benefit the most from tax money?

[Vast LWC]

The wealthy benefit more from federally funded infrastructure than the poor.

Trains, Planes, Ports and Roads are all subsidized in some way, and are used by corporations to move goods and people to further their profits. Those profits work their way to the rich in the form of capital gains.

In the same way, the protection of the military, the police and fire departments all benefit the rich more than the poor. A good "for instance" would be the military protection of the Oil Industry.

Corporations and their stockholders benefit from the bloated military spending that makes it's way into their pockets.

Generally poor people have too hard of a time putting food on the table to invest "spare" money into loads of stock.

There is definitely an inequality in the use of government funding between the wealthy and the rest of us, yes.

 

[Vast LWC]

And if corporations and their shareholders (the rich) don't want to pay taxes anymore, well they can feel free to provide their own roads, protection and education for their own workers.

Lets see how that works out.

 

[Oddball]

A balanced budget Constitutional amendment? Great idea IF it doesn't include license for government to just take more and more of our money to fund more and more of its spending.

Fair tax? It could be designed to work, but we all have seen incremental creep in local sales taxes. Can you imagine how that would look if the Federal government was able to impose whatever increases it wanted in order to feed its out of control appetite?

Flat tax? My preference of all systems suggested, but not if Congress can just keep increasing the percentage.

VAT? I can't think of any better way to let Congress hide huge increases in the people's money confiscated.

The current progressive tax system? That's what we are debating isn't it? And that has created the dangerous situation and invitations for corruption that now exist.

We need to start all over with people in power that understand the fundamentals that our Founders understood.

The problem is spending, not on how to better shake down the rustics.

The problem is the feds using the tax code to polarize, to reward "proper" behavior and punish "improper" acts.

 

[Foxfyre]

Ok, now I hate you lonestar, you have way too much, and I don't have what you have. GIVE ME, GIVE ME, GIVE ME. You can't possibly deserve all of that when I don't have it. You need to give it to me, since I'm obviously SO MUCH more deserving of it than you are.

Sarcasm off

Good for you. I wish more people in this wonderful country had half of the self determination that you must have. But, honestly, if I were you I wouldn't have admitted to having been in prison to this message board, I'm sure there are a few here that will use that little bit of knowledge against you in the future.

Rick

I won't be one of them. Lonestar is living proof that one's miserable background and life experience is NOT a valid excuse to not get ahead in this country. That is the beauty and miracle of the American experience.

I certainly have not achieved the financial success that Lonestar has achieved, but good for him. And good for me because by all the Leftist's criteria, I should be one of those in victimland collecting benefits from the rich because I was so disadvantaged and therefore deserving of what others have.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The wealthy benefit more from federally funded infrastructure than the poor.

Trains, Planes, Ports and Roads are all subsidized in some way, and are used by corporations to move goods and people to further their profits. Those profits work their way to the rich in the form of capital gains.

In the same way, the protection of the military, the police and fire departments all benefit the rich more than the poor. A good "for instance" would be the military protection of the Oil Industry.

Corporations and their stockholders benefit from the bloated military spending that makes it's way into their pockets.

Generally poor people have too hard of a time putting food on the table to invest "spare" money into loads of stock.

There is definitely an inequality in the use of government funding between the wealthy and the rest of us, yes.

Them goods don't move themselves.

You idiots forget that it's these "evil rich people" who gives people like you a job.

 

[Stainmaster]

Seems to me that the 47% that doesn't pay any Federal Income tax would benefit the most.

Yeah, living in poverty is wonderful. The rich got their riches thanks in part to our government, infrastructure, and stability, which is what my point was.

And the rich are hardly suffering from their higher % of taxes being paid. I don't understand why so many complain about the rich paying so much in taxes when I assume most of the people making those complaints aren't rich themselves.

I got rich and the government had nothing to do with it. Hell I quit school at 15 was in prison at 17. And now thirty years later I own two homes, a cattle ranch with over five thousand acres of land after selling two thousand acres to a real estate investor for 1.7 million five years ago I bought 10 acres of land and a house in Mexico. I partnered with a few friends and we purchased a Gulfstream G200, best investment I've made.

I started out in this world with nothing now I have everything I could ever want and all done through smart investments and hard fucking work which is something you liberal idiots don't seem to understand. The majority of the rich people in this country were not born rich they worked their asses off and made high risk investments that paid off.

While I respect these accomplishments for what they are, it is this kind of boasting that makes me more of an independent thinking citizen. It is a turn off to your message. I would like to see you being homeless for a month caught in the poverty trap with no money. Boasters like this would not last three days.

 

[Dr Gregg]

They make the most money, have the biggest share in the wealth, and pay the most taxes. But don't they also benefit the most from what the tax money goes towards?

They benefit from an educated and skilled workforce that help their companies flourish. THey benefit from roads and strong infrastructure to move their product and assist in their business, which allowed them to . THey benefit from the US military and police force to protect their assets and provide a relatively safe and stable country to have their business flourish. THey may even have benefitted from student loan programs getting them their education in the first place. Many benefit from new scientific discoveries funded by government research grants which helped them discover an innovative new technology based on those discoveries. They benefit from legislation and justice system that protects their innovative products from patent infringement. I'm sure there are plenty more.

The rich do benefit more than the average Americans from tax dollars. Words like 'subsidy,' 'grant,' and 'research,' tell that story. All things considered for services rendered, including all the accusations against the U.S.P.S, I think the American taxpayer gets a lot of 'bang for the buck.' Realizing inflation, and new programs like health care, I do not like seeing my taxes go up. THEN CONSIDER OUR STANDARD OF LIVING COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE WORLD. We Americans are doing quite well.

Taxpayers will take a hit on the new health care program, but I think President Obama made a good point about the words "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness," making health care a right. Now, it is the law, and we have to make it work. Get the accountants to crunch the numbers, and 70 years from now, just like with Social Security, we will have shown ourselves as a people who are compassionate, efficient, and fiscally conservative to have passed the Democratic Health care plan. I don't recall who said it, but the Obama/Biden health care plan is not welfare, it is a national insurance coverage package for all citizens.

Thats one thing that peeves me by some anti tax people, they don't realize that part of the tax money and gov't programs has helped make this country great. And some just downright lie or ignore this.

 

[Dr Gregg]

Seems to me that the 47% that doesn't pay any Federal Income tax would benefit the most.

Yeah, living in poverty is wonderful. The rich got their riches thanks in part to our government, infrastructure, and stability, which is what my point was.

And the rich are hardly suffering from their higher % of taxes being paid. I don't understand why so many complain about the rich paying so much in taxes when I assume most of the people making those complaints aren't rich themselves.

Because we understand that thievery is thievery, no matter how you dress it up or rationalize it as "fairness".

typical lying spin, claim its stolen money, even though those paying it get benefits from it

 

[Oddball]

Thats one thing that peeves me by some anti tax people, they don't realize that part of the tax money and gov't programs has helped make this country great. And some just downright lie or ignore this.

This is one thing that peeves me about closet Marxists authoritarians like you...You believe that gubmint and exhorbitant taxes that made America great.

 

[Oddball]

Yeah, living in poverty is wonderful. The rich got their riches thanks in part to our government, infrastructure, and stability, which is what my point was.

And the rich are hardly suffering from their higher % of taxes being paid. I don't understand why so many complain about the rich paying so much in taxes when I assume most of the people making those complaints aren't rich themselves.

Because we understand that thievery is thievery, no matter how you dress it up or rationalize it as "fairness".

typical lying spin, claim its stolen money, even though those paying it get benefits from it

Typical rationalization of the looter...Claim that "the man" deserves to be and benefits from being robbed.

 

[Stainmaster]

The wealthy benefit more from federally funded infrastructure than the poor.

Trains, Planes, Ports and Roads are all subsidized in some way, and are used by corporations to move goods and people to further their profits. Those profits work their way to the rich in the form of capital gains.

In the same way, the protection of the military, the police and fire departments all benefit the rich more than the poor. A good "for instance" would be the military protection of the Oil Industry.

Corporations and their stockholders benefit from the bloated military spending that makes it's way into their pockets.

Generally poor people have too hard of a time putting food on the table to invest "spare" money into loads of stock.

There is definitely an inequality in the use of government funding between the wealthy and the rest of us, yes.

Them goods don't move themselves.

You idiots forget that it's these "evil rich people" who gives people like you a job.

While I am sure there are "evil rich people," I am also sure there are good ones. The ones many of us would like to see nailed are the SELFISH who place their needs over that of everyone else. These people are bad, just bad, and should be dealt with like cock roaches, spray them to prison.

 

[WillowTree]

And if corporations and their shareholders (the rich) don't want to pay taxes anymore, well they can feel free to provide their own roads, protection and education for their own workers.

Lets see how that works out.

I'll go ya one better.. let's let the people who pay zero in federal taxes provide their own roads, education, food, homes, and doctors,, how's that work for ya???

 

[Dr Gregg]

Thats one thing that peeves me by some anti tax people, they don't realize that part of the tax money and gov't programs has helped make this country great. And some just downright lie or ignore this.

This is one thing that peeves me about closet Marxists authoritarians like you...You believe that gubmint and exhorbitant taxes that made America great.

Cause you live in simple minded world where the only thing that matters in life is how hard you work, and nothing else. Well, reality is a lot more complex than that with a plethora of variables that can effect someone's financial status and success in life

 

[Oddball]

While I am sure there are "evil rich people," I am also sure there are good ones. The ones many of us would like to see nailed are the SELFISH who place their needs over that of everyone else. These people are bad, just bad, and should be dealt with like cock roaches, spray them to prison.

How do you propose to pull that off...A federal Department of Egalitarianism, maybe?

 

[Foxfyre]

A balanced budget Constitutional amendment? Great idea IF it doesn't include license for government to just take more and more of our money to fund more and more of its spending.

Fair tax? It could be designed to work, but we all have seen incremental creep in local sales taxes. Can you imagine how that would look if the Federal government was able to impose whatever increases it wanted in order to feed its out of control appetite?

Flat tax? My preference of all systems suggested, but not if Congress can just keep increasing the percentage.

VAT? I can't think of any better way to let Congress hide huge increases in the people's money confiscated.

The current progressive tax system? That's what we are debating isn't it? And that has created the dangerous situation and invitations for corruption that now exist.

We need to start all over with people in power that understand the fundamentals that our Founders understood.

The problem is spending, not on how to better shake down the rustics.

The problem is the feds using the tax code to polarize, to reward "proper" behavior and punish "improper" acts.

That's part of it, but I think the dynamics go even deeper than that.

First it rewards under achievement and punishes achievement. To my conservative soul, that is exactly opposite of the most beneficial system for all.

Second, whenever government is able to target certain groups or demographics for specail benefits or largesse or exemptions or whatever, it can buy sufficient votes to keep those in power in perpetuity and thereby increase thier power, prestige, influence, and personal fortunes. That cannot help but corrupt those in power.

And it is also corrupting to those receiving the benefits to order their lives so that they will continue to receive them and to vote to keep the people in power who will provide them.

 

[Oddball]

Thats one thing that peeves me by some anti tax people, they don't realize that part of the tax money and gov't programs has helped make this country great. And some just downright lie or ignore this.

This is one thing that peeves me about closet Marxists authoritarians like you...You believe that gubmint and exhorbitant taxes that made America great.

Cause you live in simple minded world where the only thing that matters in life is how hard you work, and nothing else. Well, reality is a lot more complex than that with a plethora of variables that can effect someone's financial status and success in life

Says the guy who knocked over the corner liquor store.

 

[Jarhead]

Thats one thing that peeves me by some anti tax people, they don't realize that part of the tax money and gov't programs has helped make this country great. And some just downright lie or ignore this.

This is one thing that peeves me about closet Marxists authoritarians like you...You believe that gubmint and exhorbitant taxes that made America great.

Cause you live in simple minded world where the only thing that matters in life is how hard you work, and nothing else. Well, reality is a lot more complex than that with a plethora of variables that can effect someone's financial status and success in life

With the exception of lottery winners and inheritances, a strong work ethic is mandatory for financial success.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Yeah, living in poverty is wonderful. The rich got their riches thanks in part to our government, infrastructure, and stability, which is what my point was.

And the rich are hardly suffering from their higher % of taxes being paid. I don't understand why so many complain about the rich paying so much in taxes when I assume most of the people making those complaints aren't rich themselves.

I got rich and the government had nothing to do with it. Hell I quit school at 15 was in prison at 17. And now thirty years later I own two homes, a cattle ranch with over five thousand acres of land after selling two thousand acres to a real estate investor for 1.7 million five years ago I bought 10 acres of land and a house in Mexico. I partnered with a few friends and we purchased a Gulfstream G200, best investment I've made.

I started out in this world with nothing now I have everything I could ever want and all done through smart investments and hard fucking work which is something you liberal idiots don't seem to understand. The majority of the rich people in this country were not born rich they worked their asses off and made high risk investments that paid off.

Ok, now I hate you lonestar, you have way too much, and I don't have what you have. GIVE ME, GIVE ME, GIVE ME. You can't possibly deserve all of that when I don't have it. You need to give it to me, since I'm obviously SO MUCH more deserving of it than you are.

Sarcasm off

Good for you. I wish more people in this wonderful country had half of the self determination that you must have. But, honestly, if I were you I wouldn't have admitted to having been in prison to this message board, I'm sure there are a few here that will use that little bit of knowledge against you in the future.

Rick

Thanks hboats, but I'm not afraid if folks know I've been incarcerated it was thirty years ago and I was pardoned by Governor White in 1984. I was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon w/intent, was given five years in the Texas Department of Corrections, was released after 2 years 8 months and three days. I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear.

 

[Foxfyre]

The wealthy benefit more from federally funded infrastructure than the poor.

Trains, Planes, Ports and Roads are all subsidized in some way, and are used by corporations to move goods and people to further their profits. Those profits work their way to the rich in the form of capital gains.

In the same way, the protection of the military, the police and fire departments all benefit the rich more than the poor. A good "for instance" would be the military protection of the Oil Industry.

Corporations and their stockholders benefit from the bloated military spending that makes it's way into their pockets.

Generally poor people have too hard of a time putting food on the table to invest "spare" money into loads of stock.

There is definitely an inequality in the use of government funding between the wealthy and the rest of us, yes.

Them goods don't move themselves.

You idiots forget that it's these "evil rich people" who gives people like you a job.

While I am sure there are "evil rich people," I am also sure there are good ones. The ones many of us would like to see nailed are the SELFISH who place their needs over that of everyone else. These people are bad, just bad, and should be dealt with like cock roaches, spray them to prison.

Do you think that only the rich are selfish?

If not, what do we do with the poor who are selfish?

What is criminal selfishness?

What, in your opinion, constitutes being unselfish?

 

[Oddball]

This is one thing that peeves me about closet Marxists authoritarians like you...You believe that gubmint and exhorbitant taxes that made America great.

Cause you live in simple minded world where the only thing that matters in life is how hard you work, and nothing else. Well, reality is a lot more complex than that with a plethora of variables that can effect someone's financial status and success in life

With the exception of lottery winners and inheritances, a strong work ethic is mandatory for financial success.

Either that or become a politician, bureaucrat or tenured educrat.