CDZ Afghanistan, Russia, the U.S. — Background to the “Bounty” Issue

Tom Paine 1949

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When we went into Afghanistan after 9-11 our efforts had the support of the Russians, Russian logistics and Russian allies in Afghanistan and in the ex-Soviet Republics in Central Asia. They provided absolutely essential help when the U.S.-backed “Northern Alliance” forces overthrew the Pushtan Taliban gov’t in Kabul that was protecting BinLaden. U.S. military and military contractor deaths over all these years at the hands of the never fully defeated Taliban were in no way financed by the Russians, or the Iranians, who themselves almost went to war against the Taliban.

This whole “bounty” issue is a fake one, blown completely out of proportion, pushed by the MIlitary Industrial Complex and U.S. geo-political strategists who want to maintain a U.S. presence not just in Afghanistan but in all the Muslim/Turkic ex-Soviet Republics. Democratic politicians embrace it, and try to make it into a big deal, because they hate everything the reactionary and incompetent Trump Administration represents.

Trump had long genuinely admired Putin, and was jealous of his “strong man” image, just as he also once admired XiJinping. Doesn’t mean Trump is in their pocket or is a reliable ally of either of them. Hell, Trump is loyal to nothing and nobody but himself.

It is impossible to verify the truth or falsity of these charges in the present partisan atmosphere in D.C.. One shouldn’t forget — the Russians surely do not — that we financed Muslim fanatics like BinLaden in their earlier war against the pro-Soviet regime in Afghanistan, providing billions of dollars in arms during Reagan’s presidency, including stinger missiles.

The way to protect U.S. troops from “assassinations” in Afghanistan is to get them out of that country, which Trump has been half-heartedly trying to do. His failure is due to being above all interested in maintaining his own “tough guy” image. Putin most likely even today wants to help Trump’s image so Trump will win the elections. Trump’s victory will almost certainly increase divisions in the U.S.A. and weaken our country, which Putin and most Russians today see as a dangerous enemy. It makes no sense whatever for Putin to sabotage U.S. negotiations with the Taliban leadership. He wants the U.S. to withdraw its troops. Both Russia and the Taliban have of course absolutely denied these highly suspect allegations.

Of course there has been a degeneration of relations between Russia and the U.S. that began under Bush, worsened under Obama and are today again terrible under Trump. It is certainly possible that Putin is playing a complex game here. My belief is that the worsening in relations has largely been the fault of mistaken U.S. geo-political policies. An examination of what Putin may be thinking can be found in my earlier comment #20 and the interesting linked article here:

Which thread?
 
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White 6

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When we went into Afghanistan after 9-11 our efforts had the support of the Russians, Russian logistics and Russian allies in Afghanistan and in the ex-Soviet Republics in Central Asia. They provided absolutely essential help when the U.S.-backed “Northern Alliance” forces overthrew the Pushtan Taliban gov’t in Kabul that was protecting BinLaden. U.S. military and military contractor deaths over all these years at the hands of the never fully defeated Taliban were in no way financed by the Russians, or the Iranians, who themselves almost went to war against the Taliban.

This whole “bounty” issue is a fake one, blown completely out of proportion, pushed by the MIlitary Industrial Complex and U.S. geo-political strategists who want to maintain a U.S. presence not just in Afghanistan but in all the Muslim/Turkic ex-Soviet Republics. Democratic politicians embrace it, and try to make it into a big deal, because they hate everything the reactionary and incompetent Trump Administration represents.

Trump had long genuinely admired Putin, and was jealous of his “strong man” image, just as he also once admired XiJinping. Doesn’t mean Trump is in their pocket or is a reliable ally of either of them. Hell, Trump is loyal to nothing and nobody but himself.

It is impossible to verify the truth or falsity of these charges in the present partisan atmosphere in D.C.. One shouldn’t forget — the Russians surely do not — that we financed Muslim fanatics like BinLaden in their earlier war against the pro-Soviet regime in Afghanistan, providing billions of dollars in arms during Reagan’s presidency, including stinger missiles.

The way to protect U.S. troops from “assassinations” in Afghanistan is to get them out of that country, which Trump has been half-heartedly trying to do. His failure is due to being above all interested in maintaining his own “tough guy” image. Putin most likely even today wants to help Trump’s image so Trump will win the elections. Trump’s victory will almost certainly increase divisions in the U.S.A. and weaken our country, which Putin and most Russians today see as a dangerous enemy. It makes no sense whatever for Putin to sabotage U.S. negotiations with the Taliban leadership. He wants the U.S. to withdraw its troops. Both Russia and the Taliban have of course absolutely denied these highly suspect allegations.

Of course there has been a degeneration of relations between Russia and the U.S. that began under Bush, worsened under Obama and are today again terrible under Trump. It is certainly possible that Putin is playing a complex game here. My belief is that the worsening in relations has largely been the fault of mistaken U.S. geo-political policies. An examination of what Putin may be thinking can be found in my earlier comment #20 and the interesting linked article here:

Which thread?
You've got a pretty good bead on this one.
 

Rambunctious

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We have crushing sanctions on Russia and it affects their entire population....to expect them to "come around" with those sanctions in place is foolhardy....When Trump came into office he sought a better relationship with Russia and Putin....Unfortunately the democrats had a different agenda....getting Trump removed from office...so any daylight in a better relationship grew dark very quickly....

Its too bad because now we see who our real global enemy is....China....and the dems attack on Russia for the last three years has pushed Russia towards China....its a dangerous game they are playing....hopefully after Trump wins re election he can rekindle a better future between Russia and the USA....

Our two nations have the same enemy...just like in world war one and two.....wake up democrats...your elected leaders are placing our nation in a very frightening place with their single minded ambition.....to get Trump.....
 

White 6

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We have crushing sanctions on Russia and it affects their entire population....to expect them to "come around" with those sanctions in place is foolhardy....When Trump came into office he sought a better relationship with Russia and Putin....Unfortunately the democrats had a different agenda....getting Trump removed from office...so any daylight in a better relationship grew dark very quickly....

Its too bad because now we see who our real global enemy is....China....and the dems attack on Russia for the last three years has pushed Russia towards China....its a dangerous game they are playing....hopefully after Trump wins re election he can rekindle a better future between Russia and the USA....

Our two nations have the same enemy...just like in world war one and two.....wake up democrats...your elected leaders are placing our nation in a very frightening place with their single minded ambition.....to get Trump.....
You are simply picking the lesser of two evils, but they are infact sprung from the same seed. The older generation has not forgotten this. I suggest you don't either.
 

Rambunctious

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You are simply picking the lesser of two evils
That's called global diplomacy....nations don't have friends....they have interests.....something democrats have never been able to comprehend....
 

Pete7469

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I don't agree with you opinions on Trump exactly, but I'd say you're pretty on point with the rest. Russians are good chess players, it serves them no good at all to aggravate the war in Afghanistan. At this point staying in that war only serves as a live fire weapons testing lab and real life training ground for counter insurgency operations. It's not a conflict that can be "won" without committing genocide, and that's what commies do.

We should have dissolved NATO after the USSR shit the bed.
 

Olde Europe

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When we went into Afghanistan after 9-11 our efforts had the support of the Russians, Russian logistics and Russian allies in Afghanistan and in the ex-Soviet Republics in Central Asia. They provided absolutely essential help when the U.S.-backed “Northern Alliance” forces overthrew the Pushtan Taliban gov’t in Kabul that was protecting BinLaden. U.S. military and military contractor deaths over all these years at the hands of the never fully defeated Taliban were in no way financed by the Russians, or the Iranians, who themselves almost went to war against the Taliban.

This whole “bounty” issue is a fake one, blown completely out of proportion, pushed by the MIlitary Industrial Complex and U.S. geo-political strategists who want to maintain a U.S. presence not just in Afghanistan but in all the Muslim/Turkic ex-Soviet Republics. Democratic politicians embrace it, and try to make it into a big deal, because they hate everything the reactionary and incompetent Trump Administration represents.

Trump had long genuinely admired Putin, and was jealous of his “strong man” image, just as he also once admired XiJinping. Doesn’t mean Trump is in their pocket or is a reliable ally of either of them. Hell, Trump is loyal to nothing and nobody but himself.

It is impossible to verify the truth or falsity of these charges in the present partisan atmosphere in D.C.. One shouldn’t forget — the Russians surely do not — that we financed Muslim fanatics like BinLaden in their earlier war against the pro-Soviet regime in Afghanistan, providing billions of dollars in arms during Reagan’s presidency, including stinger missiles.

The way to protect U.S. troops from “assassinations” in Afghanistan is to get them out of that country, which Trump has been half-heartedly trying to do. His failure is due to being above all interested in maintaining his own “tough guy” image. Putin most likely even today wants to help Trump’s image so Trump will win the elections. Trump’s victory will almost certainly increase divisions in the U.S.A. and weaken our country, which Putin and most Russians today see as a dangerous enemy. It makes no sense whatever for Putin to sabotage U.S. negotiations with the Taliban leadership. He wants the U.S. to withdraw its troops. Both Russia and the Taliban have of course absolutely denied these highly suspect allegations.

Of course there has been a degeneration of relations between Russia and the U.S. that began under Bush, worsened under Obama and are today again terrible under Trump. It is certainly possible that Putin is playing a complex game here. My belief is that the worsening in relations has largely been the fault of mistaken U.S. geo-political policies. An examination of what Putin may be thinking can be found in my earlier comment #20 and the interesting linked article here:

Which thread?
In some respects that's right on the mark, however...

We know there's pretty good intelligence on the bounty thing because the U.S. briefed State and Defense, AND ALSO NATO allies on the matter. That's not done on flimsy nonsense.

The Democrats jumped on that thing because it, and Trump's inaction, demonstrate, yet again, that "Trump is loyal to nothing and nobody but himself." That's important evidence to be brought before the American people to digest, and to draw the appropriate conclusions. For the life of me I don't understand how you find it in yourself to denigrate that as a "fake", and "blown out of proportion". It is not.

As to the facts, and surrounding questions:

The most important question, in my view, would be, who dunnit? I, for one, have doubts about Putin being interested enough in killing a few U.S. soldiers. For what purpose? What aims could that possibly serve? In my view, that doesn't make much sense, if any. I'd rather assume (with nothing by way of real evidence) it's a rogue intelligence operation. Some small-minded operative wants to draw some blood and get his revenge for prior wrongs done unto him or his comrades.

For the Taliban, contingent on the size of the bounty, this is a threshold question. Attacking U.S. soldiers is risky, and an operation that wouldn't make much sense might appear differently if, due to the bounty, money is flowing in supporting more operations down the road.

Of course you are right, Putin wants a weakened and undermined, internally divided U.S. of A., which could also mean undermining U.S.-Taliban talks, and a prolonged stay and the domestic fall-out thereof might be part of the calculation. As could, of course, a humiliating retreat. I, for one, don't know where to come down on this one.

Whatever, I am prepared to reverse myself on every factual or strategic assertion above in light of new evidence.
 

Syriusly

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When we went into Afghanistan after 9-11 our efforts had the support of the Russians, Russian logistics and Russian allies in Afghanistan and in the ex-Soviet Republics in Central Asia. They provided absolutely essential help when the U.S.-backed “Northern Alliance” forces overthrew the Pushtan Taliban gov’t in Kabul that was protecting BinLaden. U.S. military and military contractor deaths over all these years at the hands of the never fully defeated Taliban were in no way financed by the Russians, or the Iranians, who themselves almost went to war against the Taliban.

This whole “bounty” issue is a fake one, blown completely out of proportion, pushed by the MIlitary Industrial Complex and U.S. geo-political strategists who want to maintain a U.S. presence not just in Afghanistan but in all the Muslim/Turkic ex-Soviet Republics. Democratic politicians embrace it, and try to make it into a big deal, because they hate everything the reactionary and incompetent Trump Administration represents.

Trump had long genuinely admired Putin, and was jealous of his “strong man” image, just as he also once admired XiJinping. Doesn’t mean Trump is in their pocket or is a reliable ally of either of them. Hell, Trump is loyal to nothing and nobody but himself.

It is impossible to verify the truth or falsity of these charges in the present partisan atmosphere in D.C.. One shouldn’t forget — the Russians surely do not — that we financed Muslim fanatics like BinLaden in their earlier war against the pro-Soviet regime in Afghanistan, providing billions of dollars in arms during Reagan’s presidency, including stinger missiles.

The way to protect U.S. troops from “assassinations” in Afghanistan is to get them out of that country, which Trump has been half-heartedly trying to do. His failure is due to being above all interested in maintaining his own “tough guy” image. Putin most likely even today wants to help Trump’s image so Trump will win the elections. Trump’s victory will almost certainly increase divisions in the U.S.A. and weaken our country, which Putin and most Russians today see as a dangerous enemy. It makes no sense whatever for Putin to sabotage U.S. negotiations with the Taliban leadership. He wants the U.S. to withdraw its troops. Both Russia and the Taliban have of course absolutely denied these highly suspect allegations.

Of course there has been a degeneration of relations between Russia and the U.S. that began under Bush, worsened under Obama and are today again terrible under Trump. It is certainly possible that Putin is playing a complex game here. My belief is that the worsening in relations has largely been the fault of mistaken U.S. geo-political policies. An examination of what Putin may be thinking can be found in my earlier comment #20 and the interesting linked article here:

Which thread?
I actually like a lot of your opinion piece. Except the 'fake' part- the reality is we don't know what the facts are right now- it could indeed turn out to be a false narrative- not false as in made up by political opponents, since the administration has admitted our intelligence agencies had reports of this. Is it blown out of proportion? Probably- but absolutely less than it would be if the same allegations had been made about the Obama administration.
 

White 6

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You are simply picking the lesser of two evils
That's called global diplomacy....nations don't have friends....they have interests.....something democrats have never been able to comprehend....
It is not in our national "interests" to have our president cozied up to Putin or Russia or asking the Chinese for help with his re-election. It was a disaster when he got help from the Russians in the first place. It certainly didn't help when he got caught strong arming Ukraine to help with this election campaign. I was not impressed with his love letter exchanges with Lil Kim either, nor his telling threatening Kim with an aircraft carrier group that tune out to be in another ocean heading the opposite, as international lies are no better than domestic lies and every government on the plant can pinpoint our surface fleets and are well aware of where they are. The Chinese are a Communists country, which does not mean we need to provoke combat, but we can certainly condemn their human rights abuse. Trump recently had a republican hold up a joint resolution condemning them for their abuse, yet the Republican he had put it on hold was one of the authors and sponsors of the legislation, showing what negative influence this president has in standing against American values here and abroad. This is the worst foreign policy president since Bush/Cheney started the Middle East War for fun and profit. This president is senile, doesn't like to read, doesn't like to hear bad intelligence related to Russia (a historic cold war foe, that has definitely gone back to their original modes of operation, since the USSR was broken by Ronald Reagan, who would certainly be turning over in his grave at the farce of national leadership occupying the White House now, and the sorry selection of trumpian sheep in the Senate that has allowed a 3 year blank check on trump stupidity and support of strongman autocratic rulers around the globe, and that includes trump renting our armed services in support of that murderous Saudi Prince. Trump is for trump international interests around the world, not American international interests, as they are not one and the same. He is every bit as big a foreign policy fool as his followers, if you are an example. Don't tell me about foreign policy, as you are not qualified. I'll put my experience in foreign countries, on large NATO operations, and briefing the Joint Chiefs against yours any day. Your international imbecile is going down in November. Get used to it.
 

Rambunctious

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cozied up to Putin or Russia or asking the Chinese for help with his re-election
Liberal news media spin.....no president has been tougher on Russia than Trump....and asking China to sign this deal because it will be good for his re election I'm sure was Trumphumor.......taken out of context purposely by a unlawful leaker...there is no sense in going down this road with you any further if you have bought the CNN version hook line and sinker.....
 

White 6

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cozied up to Putin or Russia or asking the Chinese for help with his re-election
Liberal news media spin.....no president has been tougher on Russia than Trump....and asking China to sign this deal because it will be good for his re election I'm sure was Trumphumor.......taken out of context purposely by a unlawful leaker...there is no sense in going down this road with you any further if you have bought the CNN version hook line and sinker.....
You have been so sure as a trumper of what he meant instead of what he said and other have heard, that your opinion is highly suspect.
1593737708144.png
 

Rambunctious

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cozied up to Putin or Russia or asking the Chinese for help with his re-election
Liberal news media spin.....no president has been tougher on Russia than Trump....and asking China to sign this deal because it will be good for his re election I'm sure was Trumphumor.......taken out of context purposely by a unlawful leaker...there is no sense in going down this road with you any further if you have bought the CNN version hook line and sinker.....
You have been so sure as a trumper of what he meant instead of what he said and other have heard, that your opinion is highly suspect.
View attachment 358440
I don't have to be kicked in the head to know that the media will twist color and lie straight out about what Trump says.....did you show this much concern when Obama gave Iran gold and cash so they would sign his stupid dangerous agreement?....give it up man...there are two different standards and as long as that's the case Trump will be Teflon Don...untouchable.....and he will win huge in November.....
 

jwoodie

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When we went into Afghanistan after 9-11 our efforts had the support of the Russians, Russian logistics and Russian allies in Afghanistan and in the ex-Soviet Republics in Central Asia. They provided absolutely essential help when the U.S.-backed “Northern Alliance” forces overthrew the Pushtan Taliban gov’t in Kabul that was protecting BinLaden. U.S. military and military contractor deaths over all these years at the hands of the never fully defeated Taliban were in no way financed by the Russians, or the Iranians, who themselves almost went to war against the Taliban.

This whole “bounty” issue is a fake one, blown completely out of proportion, pushed by the MIlitary Industrial Complex and U.S. geo-political strategists who want to maintain a U.S. presence not just in Afghanistan but in all the Muslim/Turkic ex-Soviet Republics. Democratic politicians embrace it, and try to make it into a big deal, because they hate everything the reactionary and incompetent Trump Administration represents.

Trump had long genuinely admired Putin, and was jealous of his “strong man” image, just as he also once admired XiJinping. Doesn’t mean Trump is in their pocket or is a reliable ally of either of them. Hell, Trump is loyal to nothing and nobody but himself.

It is impossible to verify the truth or falsity of these charges in the present partisan atmosphere in D.C.. One shouldn’t forget — the Russians surely do not — that we financed Muslim fanatics like BinLaden in their earlier war against the pro-Soviet regime in Afghanistan, providing billions of dollars in arms during Reagan’s presidency, including stinger missiles.

The way to protect U.S. troops from “assassinations” in Afghanistan is to get them out of that country, which Trump has been half-heartedly trying to do. His failure is due to being above all interested in maintaining his own “tough guy” image. Putin most likely even today wants to help Trump’s image so Trump will win the elections. Trump’s victory will almost certainly increase divisions in the U.S.A. and weaken our country, which Putin and most Russians today see as a dangerous enemy. It makes no sense whatever for Putin to sabotage U.S. negotiations with the Taliban leadership. He wants the U.S. to withdraw its troops. Both Russia and the Taliban have of course absolutely denied these highly suspect allegations.

Of course there has been a degeneration of relations between Russia and the U.S. that began under Bush, worsened under Obama and are today again terrible under Trump. It is certainly possible that Putin is playing a complex game here. My belief is that the worsening in relations has largely been the fault of mistaken U.S. geo-political policies. An examination of what Putin may be thinking can be found in my earlier comment #20 and the interesting linked article here:

Which thread?
The kind of BS that you have described is exactly why Trump doesn't (and shouldn't) trust the Deep State. Neither should you.
 

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