Addiction vs Disease, I call bullshit

[alan1]

Alcohol and drug addiction has been classified as a "disease" during my lifetime.
But is it really a "disease"?
The media tells us it is.
Most medical people tell us it is.
But just because they say so, does that really make it so?

If you have a disease like breast cancer, lymphoma, diabetes, or any other type of physical disease your only realistic options for cure or maintenance is medical treatment. You seek out a medical professionals service for that cure or controlled maintenance.
Addiction (drugs or alcohol) can be cured/maintained without any medical assistance whatsoever. A 12 step program can handle that for you.
Can anybody name a 12 step program that cures/maintains any other "disease" aside from addiction? Is there a 12 step program that cures/maintains AIDS, Parkinson's, Leukemia or any other disease (aside from addiction) without using medical assistance?

And what about smoking? Why isn't nicotine addiction classified as a disease? Why is alcohol or heroin addiction a disease but nicotine addiction isn't?

Addiction isn't a disease. We are being fed a shit sandwich and I refuse to eat it.

 

[xotoxi]

dis·ease \di-ˈzēz\
noun (Middle English disese, from Anglo-French desease, desaise, from des- dis- + eise ease)

1 (obsolete) : trouble
2: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms : sickness, malady
3: a harmful development (as in a social institution)

dis·eased \-ˈzēzd\ adjective

You have two choices:

1. Prove that alcoholism is not "a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms"

or

2. Change the definition of disease.

 

[HUGGY]

Alcohol and drug addiction has been classified as a "disease" during my lifetime.
But is it really a "disease"?
The media tells us it is.
Most medical people tell us it is.
But just because they say so, does that really make it so?

If you have a disease like breast cancer, lymphoma, diabetes, or any other type of physical disease your only realistic options for cure or maintenance is medical treatment. You seek out a medical professionals service for that cure or controlled maintenance.
Addiction (drugs or alcohol) can be cured/maintained without any medical assistance whatsoever. A 12 step program can handle that for you.
Can anybody name a 12 step program that cures/maintains any other "disease" aside from addiction? Is there a 12 step program that cures/maintains AIDS, Parkinson's, Leukemia or any other disease (aside from addiction) without using medical assistance?

And what about smoking? Why isn't nicotine addiction classified as a disease? Why is alcohol or heroin addiction a disease but nicotine addiction isn't?

Addiction isn't a disease. We are being fed a shit sandwich and I refuse to eat it.

12 step programs are lame. They are designed for weak minded christians that are already predisposed to "giving themselves" over to someone or something else.

 

[xotoxi]

And what about smoking? Why isn't nicotine addiction classified as a disease? Why is alcohol or heroin addiction a disease but nicotine addiction isn't?

2009 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 305.1 - Nondependent Tobacco Use Disorder

2009 ICD-9-CM Diagnosis 305.1

Nondependent tobacco use disorder

• Tobacco used to the detriment of a person's health or social functioning. Tobacco dependence is included.

• 305.1 is a specific code that can be used to specify a diagnosis
• 305.1 contains 9 index entries
• View the ICD-9-CM Volume 1 305.* hierarchy

305.1 also known as:

• Tobacco dependence

305.1 excludes:

• history of tobacco use (V15.82)
• smoking complicating pregnancy (649.0)
• tobacco use disorder complicating pregnancy (649.0)

 

[Zoom-boing]

Depends on which definition of disease you use.

dis⋅ease
   /dɪˈziz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [di-zeez] Show IPA noun, verb, -eased, -eas⋅ing.
–noun
1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2. any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3. any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
4. decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.

disease definition | Dictionary.com


Personally I think it's a 'name change' to illicit a change in how we see addiction. Much like changing illegal alien to undocumented worker. Two different images which changes how we perceive those people/problem.

Addiction is your problem; disease is looking for a cure.

As for nicotine . . . why would anyone want to 'cure' someone from smoking? How else are they gonna pay for SCHIP?

 

[Care4all]

I believe there are studies that show the reaction in the brain that keeps those "addicted", addicted....

I don't know if they have discovered a man made drug that is less destructive that can substitute this physical need of these illegal drugs...something like the Nicotine patch for cigarette smokers though the patch has been proven to be less affective than some other drug that is usually used for the treatment of depression, that has been shown to help these smokers to quit.

AA never cures anyone, and they are the first to tell you such....they just produce "recovering Alcoholic" that will never be "recovered" completely, from what I have read on the topic....once an alcoholic, ALWAYS an alcoholic....only a "recovering one" if you have successfully gone through a 12 step program...this still means you are an alcoholic and if you fall off the wagon and have a drink, it will be harder to get back on the abstention again...they have to abstain from having any alcohol at all...this physical need, this medical need to drink till you drop does not go away....starving it, controls it, to a degree.

So, i guess i am not certain that I agree it is all bulloney Mountain man....

 

[xotoxi]

Depends on which definition of disease you use.

dis⋅ease
   /dɪˈziz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [di-zeez] Show IPA noun, verb, -eased, -eas⋅ing.
–noun
1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2. any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3. any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
4. decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.

disease definition | Dictionary.com


Personally I think it's a 'name change' to illicit a change in how we see addiction. Much like changing illegal alien to undocumented worker. Two different images which changes how we perceive those people/problem.

Addiction is your problem; disease is looking for a cure.

As for nicotine . . . why would anyone want to 'cure' someone from smoking? How else are they gonna pay for SCHIP?

If you would say that alcoholism is not a disease, then you would have to say that the brain is not an organ of the body.

In an alcoholic, their brain is not functioning properly to tell them to stop drinking.

Do you think that waking up covered in your own vomit, and then going for another bottle is NOT the result of a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ?

 

[Zoom-boing]

Depends on which definition of disease you use.

dis⋅ease
   /dɪˈziz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [di-zeez] Show IPA noun, verb, -eased, -eas⋅ing.
–noun
1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2. any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3. any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
4. decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.

disease definition | Dictionary.com


Personally I think it's a 'name change' to illicit a change in how we see addiction. Much like changing illegal alien to undocumented worker. Two different images which changes how we perceive those people/problem.

Addiction is your problem; disease is looking for a cure.

As for nicotine . . . why would anyone want to 'cure' someone from smoking? How else are they gonna pay for SCHIP?

If you would say that alcoholism is not a disease, then you would have to say that the brain is not an organ of the body.

In an alcoholic, their brain is not functioning properly to tell them to stop drinking.

Do you think that waking up covered in your own vomit, and then going for another bottle is NOT the result of a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ?

It is . . . but it is brought about by one's own actions vs. say breast cancer or lupus. I was being smarmy about nicotine in my other post but if they classify alcoholism as a disease why not nicotine?

 

[KittenKoder]

Alcohol and drug addiction has been classified as a "disease" during my lifetime.
But is it really a "disease"?
The media tells us it is.
Most medical people tell us it is.
But just because they say so, does that really make it so?

If you have a disease like breast cancer, lymphoma, diabetes, or any other type of physical disease your only realistic options for cure or maintenance is medical treatment. You seek out a medical professionals service for that cure or controlled maintenance.
Addiction (drugs or alcohol) can be cured/maintained without any medical assistance whatsoever. A 12 step program can handle that for you.
Can anybody name a 12 step program that cures/maintains any other "disease" aside from addiction? Is there a 12 step program that cures/maintains AIDS, Parkinson's, Leukemia or any other disease (aside from addiction) without using medical assistance?

And what about smoking? Why isn't nicotine addiction classified as a disease? Why is alcohol or heroin addiction a disease but nicotine addiction isn't?

Addiction isn't a disease. We are being fed a shit sandwich and I refuse to eat it.

I concur, a disease is something you don't ask for, while an addiction is something we are just stupid enough to fall into (I am addicted to nicotine myself). The word disease was used to make these people feel better about themselves, the unintended consequence is now many states pay for their recovery (well, except for smokers) as well as offer them extra rights (again, except for smokers). I know a lot of junkies from the shelters while I was living there, and most who considered it a disease were unwilling to actually stop, they abused the system. There were a few who didn't sugar coat it but they were either truly recovered (without the programs) or just being honest and not proud of being junkies, nor did they take advantage of the state funded programs.

The biggest difference between a disease or addiction is that you don't want to keep the disease once you get it, while with addiction many do not want to 'cure' it unless talked into it (or forced by the laws).

 

[strollingbones]

Depends on which definition of disease you use.

dis⋅ease
   /dɪˈziz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [di-zeez] Show IPA noun, verb, -eased, -eas⋅ing.
–noun
1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2. any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3. any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease.
4. decomposition of a material under special circumstances: tin disease.

disease definition | Dictionary.com


Personally I think it's a 'name change' to illicit a change in how we see addiction. Much like changing illegal alien to undocumented worker. Two different images which changes how we perceive those people/problem.

Addiction is your problem; disease is looking for a cure.

As for nicotine . . . why would anyone want to 'cure' someone from smoking? How else are they gonna pay for SCHIP?

If you would say that alcoholism is not a disease, then you would have to say that the brain is not an organ of the body.

In an alcoholic, their brain is not functioning properly to tell them to stop drinking.

Do you think that waking up covered in your own vomit, and then going for another bottle is NOT the result of a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ?

i am a drunk...i am not sure if it is a disease or not....but i never have one drink...luckily for me...i was a functioning drunk....but i rarely drink now....but when i do...i am a drunk

 

[manu1959]

well there is a gene for breast cancer.....and it can be triggered by many things...being overweight is one of them......

 

[HUGGY]

Alcohol and drug addiction has been classified as a "disease" during my lifetime.
But is it really a "disease"?
The media tells us it is.
Most medical people tell us it is.
But just because they say so, does that really make it so?

If you have a disease like breast cancer, lymphoma, diabetes, or any other type of physical disease your only realistic options for cure or maintenance is medical treatment. You seek out a medical professionals service for that cure or controlled maintenance.
Addiction (drugs or alcohol) can be cured/maintained without any medical assistance whatsoever. A 12 step program can handle that for you.
Can anybody name a 12 step program that cures/maintains any other "disease" aside from addiction? Is there a 12 step program that cures/maintains AIDS, Parkinson's, Leukemia or any other disease (aside from addiction) without using medical assistance?

And what about smoking? Why isn't nicotine addiction classified as a disease? Why is alcohol or heroin addiction a disease but nicotine addiction isn't?

Addiction isn't a disease. We are being fed a shit sandwich and I refuse to eat it.

I concur, a disease is something you don't ask for, while an addiction is something we are just stupid enough to fall into (I am addicted to nicotine myself). The word disease was used to make these people feel better about themselves, the unintended consequence is now many states pay for their recovery (well, except for smokers) as well as offer them extra rights (again, except for smokers). I know a lot of junkies from the shelters while I was living there, and most who considered it a disease were unwilling to actually stop, they abused the system. There were a few who didn't sugar coat it but they were either truly recovered (without the programs) or just being honest and not proud of being junkies, nor did they take advantage of the state funded programs.

The biggest difference between a disease or addiction is that you don't want to keep the disease once you get it, while with addiction many do not want to 'cure' it unless talked into it (or forced by the laws).

How is that new ciggy tax workin for ya?

 

[strollingbones]

i think it has something to do with genetics...seems to run in families etc...in my family it is bone cancer...so we got a pretty fatal attitude with it..

 

[Care4all]

Alcohol and drug addiction has been classified as a "disease" during my lifetime.
But is it really a "disease"?
The media tells us it is.
Most medical people tell us it is.
But just because they say so, does that really make it so?

If you have a disease like breast cancer, lymphoma, diabetes, or any other type of physical disease your only realistic options for cure or maintenance is medical treatment. You seek out a medical professionals service for that cure or controlled maintenance.
Addiction (drugs or alcohol) can be cured/maintained without any medical assistance whatsoever. A 12 step program can handle that for you.
Can anybody name a 12 step program that cures/maintains any other "disease" aside from addiction? Is there a 12 step program that cures/maintains AIDS, Parkinson's, Leukemia or any other disease (aside from addiction) without using medical assistance?

And what about smoking? Why isn't nicotine addiction classified as a disease? Why is alcohol or heroin addiction a disease but nicotine addiction isn't?

Addiction isn't a disease. We are being fed a shit sandwich and I refuse to eat it.

I concur, a disease is something you don't ask for, while an addiction is something we are just stupid enough to fall into (I am addicted to nicotine myself). The word disease was used to make these people feel better about themselves, the unintended consequence is now many states pay for their recovery (well, except for smokers) as well as offer them extra rights (again, except for smokers). I know a lot of junkies from the shelters while I was living there, and most who considered it a disease were unwilling to actually stop, they abused the system. There were a few who didn't sugar coat it but they were either truly recovered (without the programs) or just being honest and not proud of being junkies, nor did they take advantage of the state funded programs.

The biggest difference between a disease or addiction is that you don't want to keep the disease once you get it, while with addiction many do not want to 'cure' it unless talked into it (or forced by the laws).

Which is just part of the disease! Part of the addiction, is the lack of being able to stop once it is triggered...or something like that?

It just isn't "normal" by any means....even with the addiction to cigarettes....I watched my father, a very sound and rational and eventually educated man, know that cigarettes would kill him, continue to fight his addiction for over 30 years, until he was able to truly be "on the wagon".... He KNEW that he didn't want to smoke, he knew it was "bad for his health" yet he struggled decade after decade to stop...i don't think it was his true CHOICE to keep smoking....i think he was addicted, he was not in control, not "normal" during this period and was unable to conquer it.... others may be different than him and can go cold turkey, and stick with it, I suppose, but he couldn't...until he finally could...like I said it took 30 years of going cold turkey only to succumb again, to it....just crazy to me, since he KNEW BETTER...thus the label of an uncontrolable addiction, a disease!

 

[Said1]

Nicotine aside, I would argue that a lot of addicts (drugs/alcohol) don't want to be addicted to the point that they can't function properly without a certain amount in their system. I would also argue that addiction also becomes a life style and that in itself is one of the hardest aspects to escape.

As for addiction being a disease - it can, in some instances take over your life and eventually kill you, but I think that's probably the point. The level of self-loathing that addicts possess is probably relative to their life-style and level of addiction.

 

[KittenKoder]

Nicotine aside, I would argue that a lot of addicts (drugs/alcohol) don't want to be addicted to the point that they can't function properly without a certain amount in their system. I would also argue that addiction also becomes a life style and that in itself is one of the hardest aspects to escape.

As for addiction being a disease - it can, in some instances take over your life and eventually kill you, but I think that's probably the point. The level of self-loathing that addicts possess is probably relative to their life-style and level of addiction.

That's the reason why I will never give junkies or drunks the right to say they have a disease, nicotine is not an aside, we are addicts to. But because of the anti-smokers having their heads up their asses people forget, nicotine is more addictive than most illegal drugs. While the junkies and drunks have a ton of states funded programs and legal protections offered because it's a "disease" now, us smokers are just treated like shit. It's the same thing, this is an all or nothing policy, and can include many prescription drugs as well. But only the drunks or street junkies are even offered anything to help, any sympathy. People whine and cry when a landlord doesn't want to risk renting to them or an employer refuses to hire them, but when you smoke you're considered a bigger threat and shunned. Nicotine is NOT an aside, so either stop demonizing it or demonize them all.

 

[editec]

Alcohol and drug addiction has been classified as a "disease" during my lifetime.
But is it really a "disease"?
The media tells us it is.
Most medical people tell us it is.
But just because they say so, does that really make it so?

If you have a disease like breast cancer, lymphoma, diabetes, or any other type of physical disease your only realistic options for cure or maintenance is medical treatment. You seek out a medical professionals service for that cure or controlled maintenance.
Addiction (drugs or alcohol) can be cured/maintained without any medical assistance whatsoever. A 12 step program can handle that for you.
Can anybody name a 12 step program that cures/maintains any other "disease" aside from addiction? Is there a 12 step program that cures/maintains AIDS, Parkinson's, Leukemia or any other disease (aside from addiction) without using medical assistance?

And what about smoking? Why isn't nicotine addiction classified as a disease? Why is alcohol or heroin addiction a disease but nicotine addiction isn't?

Addiction isn't a disease. We are being fed a shit sandwich and I refuse to eat it.

Addiction has PHYSIOLOGICAL causes.

If it were merely a question of right thinking or free will NOBODY would ever get addicted to ANYTHING.

 

[Said1]

Nicotine aside, I would argue that a lot of addicts (drugs/alcohol) don't want to be addicted to the point that they can't function properly without a certain amount in their system. I would also argue that addiction also becomes a life style and that in itself is one of the hardest aspects to escape.

As for addiction being a disease - it can, in some instances take over your life and eventually kill you, but I think that's probably the point. The level of self-loathing that addicts possess is probably relative to their life-style and level of addiction.

That's the reason why I will never give junkies or drunks the right to say they have a disease, nicotine is not an aside, we are addicts to. But because of the anti-smokers having their heads up their asses people forget, nicotine is more addictive than most illegal drugs. While the junkies and drunks have a ton of states funded programs and legal protections offered because it's a "disease" now, us smokers are just treated like shit. It's the same thing, this is an all or nothing policy, and can include many prescription drugs as well. But only the drunks or street junkies are even offered anything to help, any sympathy. People whine and cry when a landlord doesn't want to risk renting to them or an employer refuses to hire them, but when you smoke you're considered a bigger threat and shunned. Nicotine is NOT an aside, so either stop demonizing it or demonize them all.

If you want to include the behavior and lifestyle of smokers with that of other addicts, be my guest. I don't. The lifestyle of addicts is as much a part of the addiction as the drugs.

 

[KittenKoder]

Nicotine aside, I would argue that a lot of addicts (drugs/alcohol) don't want to be addicted to the point that they can't function properly without a certain amount in their system. I would also argue that addiction also becomes a life style and that in itself is one of the hardest aspects to escape.

As for addiction being a disease - it can, in some instances take over your life and eventually kill you, but I think that's probably the point. The level of self-loathing that addicts possess is probably relative to their life-style and level of addiction.

That's the reason why I will never give junkies or drunks the right to say they have a disease, nicotine is not an aside, we are addicts to. But because of the anti-smokers having their heads up their asses people forget, nicotine is more addictive than most illegal drugs. While the junkies and drunks have a ton of states funded programs and legal protections offered because it's a "disease" now, us smokers are just treated like shit. It's the same thing, this is an all or nothing policy, and can include many prescription drugs as well. But only the drunks or street junkies are even offered anything to help, any sympathy. People whine and cry when a landlord doesn't want to risk renting to them or an employer refuses to hire them, but when you smoke you're considered a bigger threat and shunned. Nicotine is NOT an aside, so either stop demonizing it or demonize them all.

If you want to include the behavior and lifestyle of smokers with that of other addicts, be my guest. I don't. The lifestyle of addicts is as much a part of the addiction as the drugs.

Okay, I will paraphrase my point:

Those who are attacking smokers need to attack all the other junkies or give us the same privileges, rights, and funding that the other junkies receive.

 

[alan1]

dis·ease \di-ˈzēz\
noun (Middle English disese, from Anglo-French desease, desaise, from des- dis- + eise ease)

1 (obsolete) : trouble
2: a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms : sickness, malady
3: a harmful development (as in a social institution)

dis·eased \-ˈzēzd\ adjective

You have two choices:

1. Prove that alcoholism is not "a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms"

or

2. Change the definition of disease.

The change in definition occurred when alcoholism was classified as a disease.
Know what I mean?