Active Shooter (now inactive) Killed by Armed Shopper in Crozet, Virginia

[JoeB131]

Everybody I know, has weapons, most, more than one. Most have a hand gun. People I hang around are also permit holders and carry concealed, most of the time, like myself. We go to the range several times a year, maintaining skills, practicing and just because we enjoy shooting, and have significant ammo expense on a yearly basis. I am a big believer in training, practice and going through the process of obtaining a permit, though legally I could constitutionally carry in my state. It is little more than a "good guy" card signifying I have passed a state approved training, that include the laws of use in defensive situations, passed an exam, and record fired for qualification on a range, certified by a certified instructor, after passing a local and a national agency background check.

Do I carry every time I leave the house? No. But most of the time, I do. I always do if going out at night, or to down town or Walmart, day or night. I always do if traveling, and only travel to states that honor my permit. With my should holster, you will never see it. It is just something else to put on, part of being dressed to go out. It is just another part of taking responsibility for my own security.

I'd have no problem if we made every gun owner do that.

But do you think Adam Lanza had such a card? Joker Holmes? the VA Tech Shooter?

 

[TheInfiniteSadness]

Wouldn't it be better if someone who was mentally unstable didn't have an AR-15 to start with?

We got lucky this time that someone reacted, assuming this guy wasn't just after the old lady in the car and not just randoming shooting people. If she was his only target, then really, not much was accomplished other than saving the state the cost of a trial.

Yes it would be better because the shooter had mental problems. This what his sister had to say.

Justin was a honor roll student all through middle and high school, he made the Dean’s list many times while at JMU, he loved dogs, and had the biggest passion for working out. Justin graduated from James Madison University with a degree in psychology. Anyone who truly knew him would tell just how genuinely good of a person he was. He was a reliable friend, a cousin, nephew, grandson, brother, and most importantly son. Nobody would tell you a bad story about him, because that is the person that he was!!
It is so easy to cast judgement from the outside looking in. I’ve seen all the comments and the reddit pages making my brother out to be a criminal, a goon, etc. I’ve read so
many people making up their own narrative about the incident-when all of that could not be further from the truth. Anyone who new Justin would tell you about how kind he was, about how smart he was, about the time he saved his friends life when he was 18, how he never wanted to play football because he didn’t want to hurt anyone. He was the most gentle soul you’d ever meet! Justin was far from what he is being made out to be, he was not a killer nor a criminal, and this most definitely was not a targeted attack nor a planned attack. He had never been in any kind of trouble before.
It’s so hard reading all the comments when no one knows even remotely close to what was going on inside of him. For the last year Justin has been living in the hardest place for anyone to be-his own mind. He was paranoid(maybe even schizophrenic) he thought people were following him, targeting him, and just out to hurt him. More times that not he had his phone off because he thought he was being listened to and tracked. Mental health is no joke and the truth is we all have some mental health struggle or have someone very close to us who has it worse than we could ever imagine. The daily battles that he was fighting we beyond us all, but were absolutely real to him and made life so much harder. Justin always said he did not want to hurt anyone and i do genuinely believe that. Justin was gentle and anyone who really knew him would tell you that.
Multiple times we tried to get him the help that he needed. We even went as far as to file a ECO. Unfortunately, the magistrate office and a few law enforcement officers told us “you don’t have enough evidence”, “he seems fine”, you can’t keep his weapons away from him legally”. We asked advice on how to help him and ultimately, they told us he needed to hurt himself or someone else before anything could be done. Right, cause that makes sense!
The system failed my brother on multiple occasions, we were begging for help and they just turned us away. We wanted nothing more than for him to get help and to get better, the way he was going was no way to live for anyone. Justin knew he needed help and was willing to take the proper steps to get it.
It is INCREDIBLY sad on all ends. At the end of the day three families have lost someone, my heart breaks immensely for the other families. My heart shatters for my brother, and for my mama especially. Slandering and calling him psycho online will not change anything or bring anyone back. He was a man truly fighting his own mind daily, please learn the story before you jump to conclusions and judgment in comment sections and on post. Justin was good and his heart was pure

 

[Kruska]

Two dead, including suspect, after shooting near Augusta Health clinic in Crozet

Two people have died and another was taken to a hospital after shots were fired near an Augusta Health clinic and Harris Teeter store in Crozet.

www.whsv.com

27 year old male with high capacity rifle (supposedly AK) lights up an old lady in a subaru in the parking lot. An old man is also shot and killed.

Armed Shopper, leaving the store engages and kills the shooter. Old lady is med-evaced to UVA hospital.

News media has been shockingly quiet about this. Perhaps because armed shopper was able to end it so quickly.

Doesn't surprise me, though. Charlottesville/Crozet area are uber-liberal and likely not to say much about a good guy with a gun saving the day.

The above, must be the most perfidious post of the day

First: your terminology:
lights up an old lady in a subaru in the parking lot

The distinctive lowlife vocabulary that is so common amongst 2nd Amendment Gung Ho's, and MAGA's, like commenting onto some shooter game.
Totally disrespectful/lacking any empathy - especially in view of two innocent persons having been killed.

Second: your persisting ignorance towards the factual root cause.
Ignoring that the perpetrator possessed a High Capacity Rifle (probably an AR-15, which you try to circumvent) - whilst successively highlighting another armed person (might be another mental case - some Bronson Death Wish aficionado) roaming the streets.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

Not the "Moms Against Drunk Drivers".

Or the "Mad Mommies" as one of my trainees used to call them

 

[the watcher]

There are less than 200 successful DGU's by civilians a year vs. 19,000 gun homicides, 25,000 gun suicides, and 400,000 gun crimes every year.

Where in the hell do you get your information, from the Hug A Thug website? If you want to surrender your rights and ability to defend yourself you have that option, but you can't reasonably expect everyone to follow that fuzzy logic.

 

[Harry Dresden]

It's a shame Yanks don't have the braincells to work on on how to reduce shootings and guns in public, yet they masturbate over shooting back.

your countries the main reason we have guns today....

 

[JoeB131]

Where in the hell do you get your information, from the Hug A Thug website? If you want to surrender your rights and ability to defend yourself you have that option, but you can't reasonably expect everyone to follow that fuzzy logic.

I get it from the FBI, which admits that there were only 200 cases a year where a shooting by a civilian was classified as "Justified".

On the other hand, most gun deaths are suicides, domestic violence, or accidents. A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a bad guy.

 

[the watcher]

The FBI. Well that explains your perception. Yes, the new FBI data is poor quality. But we’ve always needed better.

 

[White 6]

I'd have no problem if we made every gun owner do that.

But do you think Adam Lanza had such a card? Joker Holmes? the VA Tech Shooter?

As a whole, there are less problems associated with weapons card holders, as they have been background checked locally as well as national agency, as well as having classes in front of a state certified instructor. With Lanza's mental history, it is doubtful he would have passed the background check to get a carry permit, even if intelligent enough with his brain disorders to pass the test. So, you are talking apples and oranges. He did not have a carry permit, and of course he was using an AR style rifle, not a handgun. Your worry isn't so much with the people that go through the process to obtain a permit, but with the "constitutional carry" people that could be any nut ball off the street. Your bigger worry, by far, is still criminals and those that might not stand up to background check, or unwilling to go through the process, as some states actually prefer only criminal and cops carry guns. To insure this, they place exorbitant fees on the license processes, and do not recognize license from other states. These are your non-constitution states, those that do not recognize the legal actions of other states, under reciprocity in Article IV of the Constitution of the United States.

 

[JoeB131]

As a whole, there are less problems associated with weapons card holders, as they have been background checked locally as well as national agency, as well as having classes in front of a state certified instructor. With Lanza's mental history, it is doubtful he would have passed the background check to get a carry permit, even if intelligent enough with his brain disorders to pass the test. So, you are talking apples and oranges. He did not have a carry permit, and of course he was using an AR style rifle, not a handgun. Your worry isn't so much with the people that go through the process to obtain a permit, but with the "constitutional carry" people that could be any nut ball off the street. Your bigger worry, by far, is still criminals and those that might not stand up to background check, or unwilling to go through the process, as some states actually prefer only criminal and cops carry guns. To insure this, they place exorbitant fees on the license processes, and do not recognize license from other states. These are your non-constitution states, those that do not recognize the legal actions of other states, under reciprocity in Article IV of the Constitution of the United States.

My biggest worry is the gun industry is happy to flood our streets with guns knowing everyone will be afraid and want a gun of their own.

Heck, I even considered getting one during the worst of Covid, and I haven't handled once since I left the Army in 1992.

(My wife, on the other hand, was far more sensible and vetoed having one in the house.)

 

[justoffal]

Two dead, including suspect, after shooting near Augusta Health clinic in Crozet

Two people have died and another was taken to a hospital after shots were fired near an Augusta Health clinic and Harris Teeter store in Crozet.

www.whsv.com

27 year old male with high capacity rifle (supposedly AK) lights up an old lady in a subaru in the parking lot. An old man is also shot and killed.

Armed Shopper, leaving the store engages and kills the shooter. Old lady is med-evaced to UVA hospital.

News media has been shockingly quiet about this. Perhaps because armed shopper was able to end it so quickly.

Doesn't surprise me, though. Charlottesville/Crozet area are uber-liberal and likely not to say much about a good guy with a gun saving the day.

They will prosecute him

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

I'd have no problem if we made every gun owner do that.

But do you think Adam Lanza had such a card? Joker Holmes? the VA Tech Shooter?

Sometimes the training doesn't take, especially if the person already has law breaking tendences.

George Zimmerman readily comes to mind.

 

[White 6]

My biggest worry is the gun industry is happy to flood our streets with guns knowing everyone will be afraid and want a gun of their own.

Heck, I even considered getting one during the worst of Covid, and I haven't handled once since I left the Army in 1992.

(My wife, on the other hand, was far more sensible and vetoed having one in the house.)

I do not blame the weapons and firearms industry for manufacturing and selling a legal product in demand, complying with the laws of state and Federal Government. Weapons on the streets in the hand of criminals and the mentally or psychologically impaired is a regulatory problem. The 2nd amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear arms.
Supreme court says regulations can apply, but it should be the province of US House, Senate and President to set proper laws. They just don't. States attempt and fck it up by overreaction, in effect attempting to take away the right, sparking backlash to take away all regulation as impinging a basic right. Or they say, OK, it is a right, but to exercise it, you must pay huge amounts to the state, pricing the "right" out of reach, again sparking backlash, and the rise of so-called "Constitutional Carry".
States no long willing to live under the US Constitution IV Amendment, even refuse to recognize the certifications of other states, as required by the Constitution in the "reciprocity" among the states clause. Imagine if crossing a state line, meant your driver's license was no long valid, or your marriage certificate, or your high-school or college diploma, pilots license, etc. without paying huge fees for these approved certifications by other states, even though the certification were indeed checked/sanctioned by the Federal Government in order to be attained, in the first place.
This is the situation with carry permits in about 20 states, and even in the other 30, some different rules are in place. To stay legal and out of jeopardy, even attempting to stay on the "good-guy" list, require diligence and familiarity with differences among the several states. It is like this, because of gutless nearsighted legislator.

 

[Failzero]

Another “ When Entitled Liberals Attack Incident “ ?

 

[JoeB131]

I do not blame the weapons and firearms industry for manufacturing and selling a legal product in demand, complying with the laws of state and Federal Government. Weapons on the streets in the hand of criminals and the mentally or psychologically impaired is a regulatory problem. The 2nd amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear arms.
Supreme court says regulations can apply, but it should be the province of US House, Senate and President to set proper laws. They just don't. States attempt and fck it up by overreaction, in effect attempting to take away the right, sparking backlash to take away all regulation as impinging a basic right. Or they say, OK, it is a right, but to exercise it, you must pay huge amounts to the state, pricing the "right" out of reach, again sparking backlash, and the rise of so-called "Constitutional Carry".
States no long willing to live under the US Constitution IV Amendment, even refuse to recognize the certifications of other states, as required by the Constitution in the "reciprocity" among the states clause. Imagine if crossing a state line, meant your driver's license was no long valid, or your marriage certificate, or your high-school or college diploma, pilots license, etc. without paying huge fees for these approved certifications by other states, even though the certification were indeed checked/sanctioned by the Federal Government in order to be attained, in the first place.
This is the situation with carry permits in about 20 states, and even in the other 30, some different rules are in place. To stay legal and out of jeopardy, even attempting to stay on the "good-guy" list, require diligence and familiarity with differences among the several states. It is like this, because of gutless nearsighted legislator.

Okay, that's all very long winded, but no other country has easy access to guns like we have.

And none of them have 600 mass shooting today and a murder rate in five digits.

If more guns were the answer, we'd have the lowest crime rates in the Free World, not the highest.

Now, you might be happy packing because you don't know what other crazy person is out there packing. I'd rather have the crazy people not be packing.

 

[White 6]

Okay, that's all very long winded, but no other country has easy access to guns like we have.

And none of them have 600 mass shooting today and a murder rate in five digits.

If more guns were the answer, we'd have the lowest crime rates in the Free World, not the highest.

Now, you might be happy packing because you don't know what other crazy person is out there packing. I'd rather have the crazy people not be packing.

If you prefer to live in another country, by all means, feel free to immigrate.

Then go attack the "crazy person" problem, as you see it, not the legitimate peaceful gun owners at large.

As a responsible gun owner, I am just totally unwilling to give up my rights to self-protection for you to feel good. I would prefer you took responsibility to protect yourself and other within your sphere of influence, against the known violent evil assholes out there, instead of wishing to disarm me.

Tell me. Are you a 100% supporter of "Stop and Frisk"? If not, why would you disarm the legal gun owners, while allowing criminals and those that would ignore the law to carry concealed? It is people like you that make conscientious gun owns support constitutional carry, to solidify their rights to self-protect, before you attempt to disarm them and leave the legal populace solely at the mercy of the thugs, assholes and felons, protected from even having it known, they carry, when the laws have ruled, they are not to be in possession, but forbids verification.

 

[JoeB131]

If you prefer to live in another country, by all means, feel free to immigrate.

Then go attack the "crazy person" problem, as you see it, not the legitimate peaceful gun owners at large.

As a responsible gun owner, I am just totally unwilling to give up my rights to self-protection for you to feel good. I would prefer you took responsibility to protect yourself and other within your sphere of influence, against the known violent evil assholes out there, instead of wishing to disarm me.

Tell me. Are you a 100% supporter of "Stop and Frisk"? If not, why would you disarm the legal gun owners, while allowing criminals and those that would ignore the law to carry concealed? It is people like you that make conscientious gun owns support constitutional carry, to solidify their rights to self-protect, before you attempt to disarm them and leave the legal populace solely at the mercy of the thugs, assholes and felons, protected from even having it known, they carry, when the laws have ruled, they are not to be in possession, but forbids verification.

18% of the population suffers some kind of mental illness. We can't lock them all up.

(And yes, while I realize most of those are minor psychosis like depression and anxiety, they still contribute to the problem of gun violence.)

It seems to me a responsible gun owner wouldn't have a problem with making it harder for irresponsible people to get guns.

My solution is not more laws. My solution is a simple one. Any gun crime victim has the right to sue the gun store and manufacturer if it is found their conduct was irresponsible.

When I applied for my mortgage, I was given a thorough background check. They looked at my financials, my job history, my current debt, even checked credit cars that I have but don't use.

When I applied for my current job, they did a thorough background check, had me pee into a cup to prove I wasn't on drugs, checked my financials, talked to my former boss and a few of my former co-workers.

When I sponsored my wife for immigration, I had to pay out $4000 in fees and lawyer costs, submit 200 pages of documentation proving this wasn't just a green card wedding (she had already had a green card for years).

When I applied for an Illinois FOID Card, I had to pay $11.00 and pinky swear that I wasn't a criminal or mental patient.

One of these background checks is totally inadequate.

 

[Failzero]

SSRIs involved in 15 out of 20 High Profile Shootings of last 5 years

 

[Harry Dresden]

Any gun crime victim has the right to sue the gun store and manufacturer if it is found their conduct was irresponsible.
if a guy buys a gun and shoots you.....how is the gun store and manufacturer liable?...

 

[White 6]

18% of the population suffers some kind of mental illness. We can't lock them all up.

(And yes, while I realize most of those are minor psychosis like depression and anxiety, they still contribute to the problem of gun violence.)

It seems to me a responsible gun owner wouldn't have a problem with making it harder for irresponsible people to get guns.

My solution is not more laws. My solution is a simple one. Any gun crime victim has the right to sue the gun store and manufacturer if it is found their conduct was irresponsible.

When I applied for my mortgage, I was given a thorough background check. They looked at my financials, my job history, my current debt, even checked credit cars that I have but don't use.

When I applied for my current job, they did a thorough background check, had me pee into a cup to prove I wasn't on drugs, checked my financials, talked to my former boss and a few of my former co-workers.

When I sponsored my wife for immigration, I had to pay out $4000 in fees and lawyer costs, submit 200 pages of documentation proving this wasn't just a green card wedding (she had already had a green card for years).

When I applied for an Illinois FOID Card, I had to pay $11.00 and pinky swear that I wasn't a criminal or mental patient.

One of these background checks is totally inadequate.

One more law is more law, if able to count to one. So, you want to bleed manufacturers for producing a legal product in demand with nuisance lawsuits for conducting legal business.

Sorry. But the violent criminal using a gun, is the criminal, not the legal manufacturer of legal goods, in demand to the public, through legal commerce.

I don't think much of your state or it's gun laws. I am familiar with them, but their requirements to have a FOID card are far less stringent than those to obtain a carry permit in my state (recognized and honored among 30 other states), yet your state does not recognize in reciprocity, the actions and certifications of my state. The only time I plan to be there is simply to change planes, never leaving the secure areas of the airport.