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Are those damn Vietnamese going to come ashore again ?So are we going to cancel national defense along with the economy?no sailors on the USS Roosevelt died from the chinese disease
nor is it likely more would have died at sea than on land
It is almost certain that far more would have gotten sick. It is therefore more likely that more would die, since Sailors like everyone else have other medical considerations. The Captain got it, and we don’t know how severe a case it might be yet, but we know that the Captain wasn’t down in the Sickbay tending to the ill.
very few young military with no underlying conditions will die from the chinese disease anywhere in the world
and the mission must continue
Crozier acted very irresponsibly by going outside and over the heads of his chain of commandI suspect that once a new administration comes in that Capt Crozier will find this whole sad episode erased from his record.This situation is of interest to me. I’ve read about it as it was going on, and knew it was only a matter of time before the jackass Moldy resigned.
To really understand it, you have to start at the beginning. A Carrier has nearly 5,000 people aboard. That is the population of a good sized town living in a skyscraper. Using the same facilities, breathing the same air, sleeping inches away from one another. Sitting close to each other as they eat. To say it is a perfect environment for disease to spread is an understatement.
To battle this they have some quarantine ability, but not nearly enough. So when something comes up like Coronavirus, they are somewhat hamstrung. Lack of testing is a problem for us all, not just the Navy, but you can see where it would be a serious problem aboard a ship. So the Captain of the Ship when he realized that this was the worst case scenario started to call for permission to do several common sense things that we are doing for every single other ship. Docking, testing, treatment, and quarantine. You know, what is happening for those cruise ships as one example.
The Navy started to drag their feet. They did not want to lose the ability to project force. But that projection would have been a little more than a shadow puppet. There is no way that you can conduct combat operations with a even a small percentage of the crew ill. Remember Rommel had serious problems with Dysentery during the North African battles, and that reduced the numbers of soldiers available for combat operations. Those who were available would have been weakened.
So the Captain committed the ultimate sin. He put his concerns and requests in writing. This makes his concerns and requests a matter of official record, and he copied in everyone who had oversight of the ship. That is a lot of people. You have the Nuclear Propulsion division of the Navy overseeing the reactors. They had to be notified that the crew was at risk of getting this bug and that might reduce the available personnel to oversee the reactors to well below mandated numbers. Flight Operations falls under another Navy Office, Personnel Command, Combat Commands, Medical Commands. All of those offices have oversight of the Carrier, and probably many more.
The Captain was chastised for leaking the Memo, but nobody was able to show he did it. When that flaw was pointed out, the claims of Moldy were that the Captain sent it to so many people knowing that someone would leak it to the press. Well sure, someone would. But why in the name of all that is Holy did it take the Press learning of it to get the Navy to do what they should have done in the first place? Dock the ship, and start treating the sick and screening the others, and evacuating as many as possible to quarantine and testing?
Now, Moldy was embarrassed. He decided someone had to be punished for making him look like an ass. Sadly, Moldy didn’t realize that the person who made him look like an Ass was himself. So Moldy fired the Captain, thus showing how shallow he was, and there would be other examples.
When the Captain departed the ship, the crew cheered him. The Captain was doing his job, taking care of the ship, and the crew. His responsibilities are first the Reactor, then the Ship, and then the crew. He must protect them in that order.
Now, we come to the Sailors and why they cheered. Those sailors are volunteers one and all. They know they face the danger of death, or serious maiming injury during their service. They accept those risks. Not because they are adrenaline junkies. But because they believe the risk is worth it. Part of what makes it worth the risk is the belief that their leaders, from the President on down, will not risk them unnecessarily. By leaving them on the ship, and dicking around instead of making the decisions that needed to be made, the Sailors knew that their lives and health was being risked in the most unnecessary way possible.
So they cheered the Captain. They cheered him and let him know they appreciated that he risked his own career to protect them. The Captain was willing to sacrifice for his people, and they knew it, and would probably follow him into hell without hesitation. He risked for them. Loyalty not only flows up, but flows down.
Moldy saw this and was enraged. How dare those sailors defy him when they should have considered the Captain a Disgrace. Moldy was so incensed he flew to Guam to shout at the Sailors. He called the Captain an idiot. Well there was an idiot involved but it wasn’t the Captain.
Moldy was thin skinned and had no idea what made the Navy, or any Military unit work. Modly served seven years in the Navy as a Helicopter Pilot. This seems hard to believe, and easy to believe. I suspect he was an officer like the Lieutenant in Good Morning Vietnam. The kind who thought that being an officer was all about the salutes and how the men showed respect.
To fly to Guam and chastise the crew shows how petty and vindictive he is. To call the Captain an idiot guaranteed that no enlisted in the navy would ever respect him ever again. No officer would believe that the Chain of Command would do the right thing, because of the actions of one Martinet who was given a job where he had no damned business being.
On Paper, he may be a good choice, but in practice, he dropped the ball the second it was handed to him. Captain Crozier‘s career may be over. Hell, we need to be honest, it’s over. But he will go down as a hero who placed honor and integrity first and foremost ahead of all other political considerations. The Junior Officers and Enlisted will speak of him with reverence. And I have no doubt that Captain Crozier will get a job once this plague is over. Because let’s say he works for Lockheed, then everyone will know that Crozier won’t sign off on something unless it is right, not just good enough. Lockheed would love that sort of obvious symbol of integrity, as would many other Defense Contractors.
Moldy, I wouldn’t trust him to confirm that Night was Dark and Day was Light. His Government career is over. I know he was a teacher at the Air Force Academy. I doubt he’ll be able to get another similar position. I can’t imagine anyone hiring him knowing that at the first sign of pressure he lashes out and acts impulsively. Perhaps he has a future as a District Manager of some fast food chain, but I would sincerely doubt it.
To date, he has not been given a fair hearing of charges. I suspect the Navy wants this whole thing to go away.
The Roosevelts last port of call was vietnamAre those damn Vietnamese going to come ashore again ?So are we going to cancel national defense along with the economy?no sailors on the USS Roosevelt died from the chinese disease
nor is it likely more would have died at sea than on land
It is almost certain that far more would have gotten sick. It is therefore more likely that more would die, since Sailors like everyone else have other medical considerations. The Captain got it, and we don’t know how severe a case it might be yet, but we know that the Captain wasn’t down in the Sickbay tending to the ill.
very few young military with no underlying conditions will die from the chinese disease anywhere in the world
and the mission must continue
I bet Kimz Dong Tu Short is behind it !
WITH POOOOOOTIN !
I love how you're so invested in AMERICAN politics. How tou feeling about your PM in the hospital? Still cheeriing?
Coronavirus warship row: Acting US Navy secretary resigns
The acting Navy chief was under fire for ousting a captain who pleaded for help fighting Covid-19.www.bbc.co.uk
The acting secretary of the US Navy has resigned amid uproar over his handling of a coronavirus outbreak on an aircraft carrier.
Thomas Modly fired the USS Theodore Roosevelt's captain after he pleaded for help in a letter leaked to media.
Mr Modly apologised on Monday after it emerged he had called Captain Brett Crozier's actions "naive" and "stupid".
Is Captain Crozier a hero of the Corona War or a commie subversive ?
I like the story of the crew applauding him when he left the ship. That must be worth more than any medal.
Crozier got canned because his action called attention to indifference from the Navy.First off, Captain Crozier had to go. This guy's reckless actions were unforgivable, and he needed to be relieved of duty.
Having said that, the Secretary's unprofessional behavior in this incident was also unforgivable, and he needed to go as well.
The entire sequence of events was very unfortunate.
The Navy was carrying out its missionCrozier acted very irresponsibly by going outside and over the heads of his chain of commandI suspect that once a new administration comes in that Capt Crozier will find this whole sad episode erased from his record.This situation is of interest to me. I’ve read about it as it was going on, and knew it was only a matter of time before the jackass Moldy resigned.
To really understand it, you have to start at the beginning. A Carrier has nearly 5,000 people aboard. That is the population of a good sized town living in a skyscraper. Using the same facilities, breathing the same air, sleeping inches away from one another. Sitting close to each other as they eat. To say it is a perfect environment for disease to spread is an understatement.
To battle this they have some quarantine ability, but not nearly enough. So when something comes up like Coronavirus, they are somewhat hamstrung. Lack of testing is a problem for us all, not just the Navy, but you can see where it would be a serious problem aboard a ship. So the Captain of the Ship when he realized that this was the worst case scenario started to call for permission to do several common sense things that we are doing for every single other ship. Docking, testing, treatment, and quarantine. You know, what is happening for those cruise ships as one example.
The Navy started to drag their feet. They did not want to lose the ability to project force. But that projection would have been a little more than a shadow puppet. There is no way that you can conduct combat operations with a even a small percentage of the crew ill. Remember Rommel had serious problems with Dysentery during the North African battles, and that reduced the numbers of soldiers available for combat operations. Those who were available would have been weakened.
So the Captain committed the ultimate sin. He put his concerns and requests in writing. This makes his concerns and requests a matter of official record, and he copied in everyone who had oversight of the ship. That is a lot of people. You have the Nuclear Propulsion division of the Navy overseeing the reactors. They had to be notified that the crew was at risk of getting this bug and that might reduce the available personnel to oversee the reactors to well below mandated numbers. Flight Operations falls under another Navy Office, Personnel Command, Combat Commands, Medical Commands. All of those offices have oversight of the Carrier, and probably many more.
The Captain was chastised for leaking the Memo, but nobody was able to show he did it. When that flaw was pointed out, the claims of Moldy were that the Captain sent it to so many people knowing that someone would leak it to the press. Well sure, someone would. But why in the name of all that is Holy did it take the Press learning of it to get the Navy to do what they should have done in the first place? Dock the ship, and start treating the sick and screening the others, and evacuating as many as possible to quarantine and testing?
Now, Moldy was embarrassed. He decided someone had to be punished for making him look like an ass. Sadly, Moldy didn’t realize that the person who made him look like an Ass was himself. So Moldy fired the Captain, thus showing how shallow he was, and there would be other examples.
When the Captain departed the ship, the crew cheered him. The Captain was doing his job, taking care of the ship, and the crew. His responsibilities are first the Reactor, then the Ship, and then the crew. He must protect them in that order.
Now, we come to the Sailors and why they cheered. Those sailors are volunteers one and all. They know they face the danger of death, or serious maiming injury during their service. They accept those risks. Not because they are adrenaline junkies. But because they believe the risk is worth it. Part of what makes it worth the risk is the belief that their leaders, from the President on down, will not risk them unnecessarily. By leaving them on the ship, and dicking around instead of making the decisions that needed to be made, the Sailors knew that their lives and health was being risked in the most unnecessary way possible.
So they cheered the Captain. They cheered him and let him know they appreciated that he risked his own career to protect them. The Captain was willing to sacrifice for his people, and they knew it, and would probably follow him into hell without hesitation. He risked for them. Loyalty not only flows up, but flows down.
Moldy saw this and was enraged. How dare those sailors defy him when they should have considered the Captain a Disgrace. Moldy was so incensed he flew to Guam to shout at the Sailors. He called the Captain an idiot. Well there was an idiot involved but it wasn’t the Captain.
Moldy was thin skinned and had no idea what made the Navy, or any Military unit work. Modly served seven years in the Navy as a Helicopter Pilot. This seems hard to believe, and easy to believe. I suspect he was an officer like the Lieutenant in Good Morning Vietnam. The kind who thought that being an officer was all about the salutes and how the men showed respect.
To fly to Guam and chastise the crew shows how petty and vindictive he is. To call the Captain an idiot guaranteed that no enlisted in the navy would ever respect him ever again. No officer would believe that the Chain of Command would do the right thing, because of the actions of one Martinet who was given a job where he had no damned business being.
On Paper, he may be a good choice, but in practice, he dropped the ball the second it was handed to him. Captain Crozier‘s career may be over. Hell, we need to be honest, it’s over. But he will go down as a hero who placed honor and integrity first and foremost ahead of all other political considerations. The Junior Officers and Enlisted will speak of him with reverence. And I have no doubt that Captain Crozier will get a job once this plague is over. Because let’s say he works for Lockheed, then everyone will know that Crozier won’t sign off on something unless it is right, not just good enough. Lockheed would love that sort of obvious symbol of integrity, as would many other Defense Contractors.
Moldy, I wouldn’t trust him to confirm that Night was Dark and Day was Light. His Government career is over. I know he was a teacher at the Air Force Academy. I doubt he’ll be able to get another similar position. I can’t imagine anyone hiring him knowing that at the first sign of pressure he lashes out and acts impulsively. Perhaps he has a future as a District Manager of some fast food chain, but I would sincerely doubt it.
To date, he has not been given a fair hearing of charges. I suspect the Navy wants this whole thing to go away.
The Navy was acting irresponsibly during an immediate crisis. Working up through the chain of command would have resulted in extensive delays
Crozier shotgunned his plea to everyone who could make a difference.
Cost him his career
NoCrozier got canned because his action called attention to indifference from the Navy.First off, Captain Crozier had to go. This guy's reckless actions were unforgivable, and he needed to be relieved of duty.
Having said that, the Secretary's unprofessional behavior in this incident was also unforgivable, and he needed to go as well.
The entire sequence of events was very unfortunate.
Can’t embarrass the Navy.
But the Navy’s response in a time of worldwide crisis was even more embarrassing.
Crozier is responsible for the safety of his crew.The Navy was carrying out its missionCrozier acted very irresponsibly by going outside and over the heads of his chain of commandI suspect that once a new administration comes in that Capt Crozier will find this whole sad episode erased from his record.This situation is of interest to me. I’ve read about it as it was going on, and knew it was only a matter of time before the jackass Moldy resigned.
To really understand it, you have to start at the beginning. A Carrier has nearly 5,000 people aboard. That is the population of a good sized town living in a skyscraper. Using the same facilities, breathing the same air, sleeping inches away from one another. Sitting close to each other as they eat. To say it is a perfect environment for disease to spread is an understatement.
To battle this they have some quarantine ability, but not nearly enough. So when something comes up like Coronavirus, they are somewhat hamstrung. Lack of testing is a problem for us all, not just the Navy, but you can see where it would be a serious problem aboard a ship. So the Captain of the Ship when he realized that this was the worst case scenario started to call for permission to do several common sense things that we are doing for every single other ship. Docking, testing, treatment, and quarantine. You know, what is happening for those cruise ships as one example.
The Navy started to drag their feet. They did not want to lose the ability to project force. But that projection would have been a little more than a shadow puppet. There is no way that you can conduct combat operations with a even a small percentage of the crew ill. Remember Rommel had serious problems with Dysentery during the North African battles, and that reduced the numbers of soldiers available for combat operations. Those who were available would have been weakened.
So the Captain committed the ultimate sin. He put his concerns and requests in writing. This makes his concerns and requests a matter of official record, and he copied in everyone who had oversight of the ship. That is a lot of people. You have the Nuclear Propulsion division of the Navy overseeing the reactors. They had to be notified that the crew was at risk of getting this bug and that might reduce the available personnel to oversee the reactors to well below mandated numbers. Flight Operations falls under another Navy Office, Personnel Command, Combat Commands, Medical Commands. All of those offices have oversight of the Carrier, and probably many more.
The Captain was chastised for leaking the Memo, but nobody was able to show he did it. When that flaw was pointed out, the claims of Moldy were that the Captain sent it to so many people knowing that someone would leak it to the press. Well sure, someone would. But why in the name of all that is Holy did it take the Press learning of it to get the Navy to do what they should have done in the first place? Dock the ship, and start treating the sick and screening the others, and evacuating as many as possible to quarantine and testing?
Now, Moldy was embarrassed. He decided someone had to be punished for making him look like an ass. Sadly, Moldy didn’t realize that the person who made him look like an Ass was himself. So Moldy fired the Captain, thus showing how shallow he was, and there would be other examples.
When the Captain departed the ship, the crew cheered him. The Captain was doing his job, taking care of the ship, and the crew. His responsibilities are first the Reactor, then the Ship, and then the crew. He must protect them in that order.
Now, we come to the Sailors and why they cheered. Those sailors are volunteers one and all. They know they face the danger of death, or serious maiming injury during their service. They accept those risks. Not because they are adrenaline junkies. But because they believe the risk is worth it. Part of what makes it worth the risk is the belief that their leaders, from the President on down, will not risk them unnecessarily. By leaving them on the ship, and dicking around instead of making the decisions that needed to be made, the Sailors knew that their lives and health was being risked in the most unnecessary way possible.
So they cheered the Captain. They cheered him and let him know they appreciated that he risked his own career to protect them. The Captain was willing to sacrifice for his people, and they knew it, and would probably follow him into hell without hesitation. He risked for them. Loyalty not only flows up, but flows down.
Moldy saw this and was enraged. How dare those sailors defy him when they should have considered the Captain a Disgrace. Moldy was so incensed he flew to Guam to shout at the Sailors. He called the Captain an idiot. Well there was an idiot involved but it wasn’t the Captain.
Moldy was thin skinned and had no idea what made the Navy, or any Military unit work. Modly served seven years in the Navy as a Helicopter Pilot. This seems hard to believe, and easy to believe. I suspect he was an officer like the Lieutenant in Good Morning Vietnam. The kind who thought that being an officer was all about the salutes and how the men showed respect.
To fly to Guam and chastise the crew shows how petty and vindictive he is. To call the Captain an idiot guaranteed that no enlisted in the navy would ever respect him ever again. No officer would believe that the Chain of Command would do the right thing, because of the actions of one Martinet who was given a job where he had no damned business being.
On Paper, he may be a good choice, but in practice, he dropped the ball the second it was handed to him. Captain Crozier‘s career may be over. Hell, we need to be honest, it’s over. But he will go down as a hero who placed honor and integrity first and foremost ahead of all other political considerations. The Junior Officers and Enlisted will speak of him with reverence. And I have no doubt that Captain Crozier will get a job once this plague is over. Because let’s say he works for Lockheed, then everyone will know that Crozier won’t sign off on something unless it is right, not just good enough. Lockheed would love that sort of obvious symbol of integrity, as would many other Defense Contractors.
Moldy, I wouldn’t trust him to confirm that Night was Dark and Day was Light. His Government career is over. I know he was a teacher at the Air Force Academy. I doubt he’ll be able to get another similar position. I can’t imagine anyone hiring him knowing that at the first sign of pressure he lashes out and acts impulsively. Perhaps he has a future as a District Manager of some fast food chain, but I would sincerely doubt it.
To date, he has not been given a fair hearing of charges. I suspect the Navy wants this whole thing to go away.
The Navy was acting irresponsibly during an immediate crisis. Working up through the chain of command would have resulted in extensive delays
Crozier shotgunned his plea to everyone who could make a difference.
Cost him his career
when they had a ship to take the Roosevelts place it would have been relieved
But that decision belongs to the the Navy not Crozier
Cozier really screwed up letting the memo get into the hands of the San Francisco newspaper. Big no-no.
However, Modly gave a terrible speech to the crew to the TR. Very arrogant. He never should have called the Captain "stupid and naive".
What his speech should have been:
Captain Crozier was distinguish Naval Officer that was looking out for the well being of his crew.
However he made a mistake by letting the memo fall into the hands of news organizations that were looking for sensationalism.
That reflected badly upon the readiness Navy and it caused undue anguish to your families and loved ones back home.
This is what we are doing to make the ship safe and protect the crew members.
Period.
In the last few years the Navy has had a record of fucking things up. Maybe it is because they have been on an almost war footing since 911. Maybe it is because Obama purged the military of competent leadership. Who knows? They really need to get their act together.
So are we going to cancel national defense along with the economy?no sailors on the USS Roosevelt died from the chinese disease
nor is it likely more would have died at sea than on land
It is almost certain that far more would have gotten sick. It is therefore more likely that more would die, since Sailors like everyone else have other medical considerations. The Captain got it, and we don’t know how severe a case it might be yet, but we know that the Captain wasn’t down in the Sickbay tending to the ill.
very few young military with no underlying conditions will die from the chinese disease anywhere in the world
and the mission must continue
The Navy was carrying out its missionCrozier acted very irresponsibly by going outside and over the heads of his chain of commandI suspect that once a new administration comes in that Capt Crozier will find this whole sad episode erased from his record.This situation is of interest to me. I’ve read about it as it was going on, and knew it was only a matter of time before the jackass Moldy resigned.
To really understand it, you have to start at the beginning. A Carrier has nearly 5,000 people aboard. That is the population of a good sized town living in a skyscraper. Using the same facilities, breathing the same air, sleeping inches away from one another. Sitting close to each other as they eat. To say it is a perfect environment for disease to spread is an understatement.
To battle this they have some quarantine ability, but not nearly enough. So when something comes up like Coronavirus, they are somewhat hamstrung. Lack of testing is a problem for us all, not just the Navy, but you can see where it would be a serious problem aboard a ship. So the Captain of the Ship when he realized that this was the worst case scenario started to call for permission to do several common sense things that we are doing for every single other ship. Docking, testing, treatment, and quarantine. You know, what is happening for those cruise ships as one example.
The Navy started to drag their feet. They did not want to lose the ability to project force. But that projection would have been a little more than a shadow puppet. There is no way that you can conduct combat operations with a even a small percentage of the crew ill. Remember Rommel had serious problems with Dysentery during the North African battles, and that reduced the numbers of soldiers available for combat operations. Those who were available would have been weakened.
So the Captain committed the ultimate sin. He put his concerns and requests in writing. This makes his concerns and requests a matter of official record, and he copied in everyone who had oversight of the ship. That is a lot of people. You have the Nuclear Propulsion division of the Navy overseeing the reactors. They had to be notified that the crew was at risk of getting this bug and that might reduce the available personnel to oversee the reactors to well below mandated numbers. Flight Operations falls under another Navy Office, Personnel Command, Combat Commands, Medical Commands. All of those offices have oversight of the Carrier, and probably many more.
The Captain was chastised for leaking the Memo, but nobody was able to show he did it. When that flaw was pointed out, the claims of Moldy were that the Captain sent it to so many people knowing that someone would leak it to the press. Well sure, someone would. But why in the name of all that is Holy did it take the Press learning of it to get the Navy to do what they should have done in the first place? Dock the ship, and start treating the sick and screening the others, and evacuating as many as possible to quarantine and testing?
Now, Moldy was embarrassed. He decided someone had to be punished for making him look like an ass. Sadly, Moldy didn’t realize that the person who made him look like an Ass was himself. So Moldy fired the Captain, thus showing how shallow he was, and there would be other examples.
When the Captain departed the ship, the crew cheered him. The Captain was doing his job, taking care of the ship, and the crew. His responsibilities are first the Reactor, then the Ship, and then the crew. He must protect them in that order.
Now, we come to the Sailors and why they cheered. Those sailors are volunteers one and all. They know they face the danger of death, or serious maiming injury during their service. They accept those risks. Not because they are adrenaline junkies. But because they believe the risk is worth it. Part of what makes it worth the risk is the belief that their leaders, from the President on down, will not risk them unnecessarily. By leaving them on the ship, and dicking around instead of making the decisions that needed to be made, the Sailors knew that their lives and health was being risked in the most unnecessary way possible.
So they cheered the Captain. They cheered him and let him know they appreciated that he risked his own career to protect them. The Captain was willing to sacrifice for his people, and they knew it, and would probably follow him into hell without hesitation. He risked for them. Loyalty not only flows up, but flows down.
Moldy saw this and was enraged. How dare those sailors defy him when they should have considered the Captain a Disgrace. Moldy was so incensed he flew to Guam to shout at the Sailors. He called the Captain an idiot. Well there was an idiot involved but it wasn’t the Captain.
Moldy was thin skinned and had no idea what made the Navy, or any Military unit work. Modly served seven years in the Navy as a Helicopter Pilot. This seems hard to believe, and easy to believe. I suspect he was an officer like the Lieutenant in Good Morning Vietnam. The kind who thought that being an officer was all about the salutes and how the men showed respect.
To fly to Guam and chastise the crew shows how petty and vindictive he is. To call the Captain an idiot guaranteed that no enlisted in the navy would ever respect him ever again. No officer would believe that the Chain of Command would do the right thing, because of the actions of one Martinet who was given a job where he had no damned business being.
On Paper, he may be a good choice, but in practice, he dropped the ball the second it was handed to him. Captain Crozier‘s career may be over. Hell, we need to be honest, it’s over. But he will go down as a hero who placed honor and integrity first and foremost ahead of all other political considerations. The Junior Officers and Enlisted will speak of him with reverence. And I have no doubt that Captain Crozier will get a job once this plague is over. Because let’s say he works for Lockheed, then everyone will know that Crozier won’t sign off on something unless it is right, not just good enough. Lockheed would love that sort of obvious symbol of integrity, as would many other Defense Contractors.
Moldy, I wouldn’t trust him to confirm that Night was Dark and Day was Light. His Government career is over. I know he was a teacher at the Air Force Academy. I doubt he’ll be able to get another similar position. I can’t imagine anyone hiring him knowing that at the first sign of pressure he lashes out and acts impulsively. Perhaps he has a future as a District Manager of some fast food chain, but I would sincerely doubt it.
To date, he has not been given a fair hearing of charges. I suspect the Navy wants this whole thing to go away.
The Navy was acting irresponsibly during an immediate crisis. Working up through the chain of command would have resulted in extensive delays
Crozier shotgunned his plea to everyone who could make a difference.
Cost him his career
when they had a ship to take the Roosevelts place it would have been relieved
But that decision belongs to the the Navy not Crozier
Do you have a link which proves the CO of the carrier leaked the letter? Or are you just making shit up yet again?A Navy officer leaked a letter to the media. He was going to get “fired”, or removed from his post no matter what.Coronavirus warship row: Acting US Navy secretary resigns
The acting Navy chief was under fire for ousting a captain who pleaded for help fighting Covid-19.www.bbc.co.uk
The acting secretary of the US Navy has resigned amid uproar over his handling of a coronavirus outbreak on an aircraft carrier.
Thomas Modly fired the USS Theodore Roosevelt's captain after he pleaded for help in a letter leaked to media.
Mr Modly apologised on Monday after it emerged he had called Captain Brett Crozier's actions "naive" and "stupid".
Is Captain Crozier a hero of the Corona War or a commie subversive ?
I like the story of the crew applauding him when he left the ship. That must be worth more than any medal.
We really, really, really need the Winner tag back.This situation is of interest to me. I’ve read about it as it was going on, and knew it was only a matter of time before the jackass Moldy resigned.
To really understand it, you have to start at the beginning. A Carrier has nearly 5,000 people aboard. That is the population of a good sized town living in a skyscraper. Using the same facilities, breathing the same air, sleeping inches away from one another. Sitting close to each other as they eat. To say it is a perfect environment for disease to spread is an understatement.
To battle this they have some quarantine ability, but not nearly enough. So when something comes up like Coronavirus, they are somewhat hamstrung. Lack of testing is a problem for us all, not just the Navy, but you can see where it would be a serious problem aboard a ship. So the Captain of the Ship when he realized that this was the worst case scenario started to call for permission to do several common sense things that we are doing for every single other ship. Docking, testing, treatment, and quarantine. You know, what is happening for those cruise ships as one example.
The Navy started to drag their feet. They did not want to lose the ability to project force. But that projection would have been a little more than a shadow puppet. There is no way that you can conduct combat operations with a even a small percentage of the crew ill. Remember Rommel had serious problems with Dysentery during the North African battles, and that reduced the numbers of soldiers available for combat operations. Those who were available would have been weakened.
So the Captain committed the ultimate sin. He put his concerns and requests in writing. This makes his concerns and requests a matter of official record, and he copied in everyone who had oversight of the ship. That is a lot of people. You have the Nuclear Propulsion division of the Navy overseeing the reactors. They had to be notified that the crew was at risk of getting this bug and that might reduce the available personnel to oversee the reactors to well below mandated numbers. Flight Operations falls under another Navy Office, Personnel Command, Combat Commands, Medical Commands. All of those offices have oversight of the Carrier, and probably many more.
The Captain was chastised for leaking the Memo, but nobody was able to show he did it. When that flaw was pointed out, the claims of Moldy were that the Captain sent it to so many people knowing that someone would leak it to the press. Well sure, someone would. But why in the name of all that is Holy did it take the Press learning of it to get the Navy to do what they should have done in the first place? Dock the ship, and start treating the sick and screening the others, and evacuating as many as possible to quarantine and testing?
Now, Moldy was embarrassed. He decided someone had to be punished for making him look like an ass. Sadly, Moldy didn’t realize that the person who made him look like an Ass was himself. So Moldy fired the Captain, thus showing how shallow he was, and there would be other examples.
When the Captain departed the ship, the crew cheered him. The Captain was doing his job, taking care of the ship, and the crew. His responsibilities are first the Reactor, then the Ship, and then the crew. He must protect them in that order.
Now, we come to the Sailors and why they cheered. Those sailors are volunteers one and all. They know they face the danger of death, or serious maiming injury during their service. They accept those risks. Not because they are adrenaline junkies. But because they believe the risk is worth it. Part of what makes it worth the risk is the belief that their leaders, from the President on down, will not risk them unnecessarily. By leaving them on the ship, and dicking around instead of making the decisions that needed to be made, the Sailors knew that their lives and health was being risked in the most unnecessary way possible.
So they cheered the Captain. They cheered him and let him know they appreciated that he risked his own career to protect them. The Captain was willing to sacrifice for his people, and they knew it, and would probably follow him into hell without hesitation. He risked for them. Loyalty not only flows up, but flows down.
Moldy saw this and was enraged. How dare those sailors defy him when they should have considered the Captain a Disgrace. Moldy was so incensed he flew to Guam to shout at the Sailors. He called the Captain an idiot. Well there was an idiot involved but it wasn’t the Captain.
Moldy was thin skinned and had no idea what made the Navy, or any Military unit work. Modly served seven years in the Navy as a Helicopter Pilot. This seems hard to believe, and easy to believe. I suspect he was an officer like the Lieutenant in Good Morning Vietnam. The kind who thought that being an officer was all about the salutes and how the men showed respect.
To fly to Guam and chastise the crew shows how petty and vindictive he is. To call the Captain an idiot guaranteed that no enlisted in the navy would ever respect him ever again. No officer would believe that the Chain of Command would do the right thing, because of the actions of one Martinet who was given a job where he had no damned business being.
On Paper, he may be a good choice, but in practice, he dropped the ball the second it was handed to him. Captain Crozier‘s career may be over. Hell, we need to be honest, it’s over. But he will go down as a hero who placed honor and integrity first and foremost ahead of all other political considerations. The Junior Officers and Enlisted will speak of him with reverence. And I have no doubt that Captain Crozier will get a job once this plague is over. Because let’s say he works for Lockheed, then everyone will know that Crozier won’t sign off on something unless it is right, not just good enough. Lockheed would love that sort of obvious symbol of integrity, as would many other Defense Contractors.
Moldy, I wouldn’t trust him to confirm that Night was Dark and Day was Light. His Government career is over. I know he was a teacher at the Air Force Academy. I doubt he’ll be able to get another similar position. I can’t imagine anyone hiring him knowing that at the first sign of pressure he lashes out and acts impulsively. Perhaps he has a future as a District Manager of some fast food chain, but I would sincerely doubt it.
But he will go down as a hero who placed honor and integrity first and foremost ahead of all other political considerations.
His first responsibility is to accomplish the missionCrozier is responsible for the safety of his crew.The Navy was carrying out its missionCrozier acted very irresponsibly by going outside and over the heads of his chain of commandI suspect that once a new administration comes in that Capt Crozier will find this whole sad episode erased from his record.This situation is of interest to me. I’ve read about it as it was going on, and knew it was only a matter of time before the jackass Moldy resigned.
To really understand it, you have to start at the beginning. A Carrier has nearly 5,000 people aboard. That is the population of a good sized town living in a skyscraper. Using the same facilities, breathing the same air, sleeping inches away from one another. Sitting close to each other as they eat. To say it is a perfect environment for disease to spread is an understatement.
To battle this they have some quarantine ability, but not nearly enough. So when something comes up like Coronavirus, they are somewhat hamstrung. Lack of testing is a problem for us all, not just the Navy, but you can see where it would be a serious problem aboard a ship. So the Captain of the Ship when he realized that this was the worst case scenario started to call for permission to do several common sense things that we are doing for every single other ship. Docking, testing, treatment, and quarantine. You know, what is happening for those cruise ships as one example.
The Navy started to drag their feet. They did not want to lose the ability to project force. But that projection would have been a little more than a shadow puppet. There is no way that you can conduct combat operations with a even a small percentage of the crew ill. Remember Rommel had serious problems with Dysentery during the North African battles, and that reduced the numbers of soldiers available for combat operations. Those who were available would have been weakened.
So the Captain committed the ultimate sin. He put his concerns and requests in writing. This makes his concerns and requests a matter of official record, and he copied in everyone who had oversight of the ship. That is a lot of people. You have the Nuclear Propulsion division of the Navy overseeing the reactors. They had to be notified that the crew was at risk of getting this bug and that might reduce the available personnel to oversee the reactors to well below mandated numbers. Flight Operations falls under another Navy Office, Personnel Command, Combat Commands, Medical Commands. All of those offices have oversight of the Carrier, and probably many more.
The Captain was chastised for leaking the Memo, but nobody was able to show he did it. When that flaw was pointed out, the claims of Moldy were that the Captain sent it to so many people knowing that someone would leak it to the press. Well sure, someone would. But why in the name of all that is Holy did it take the Press learning of it to get the Navy to do what they should have done in the first place? Dock the ship, and start treating the sick and screening the others, and evacuating as many as possible to quarantine and testing?
Now, Moldy was embarrassed. He decided someone had to be punished for making him look like an ass. Sadly, Moldy didn’t realize that the person who made him look like an Ass was himself. So Moldy fired the Captain, thus showing how shallow he was, and there would be other examples.
When the Captain departed the ship, the crew cheered him. The Captain was doing his job, taking care of the ship, and the crew. His responsibilities are first the Reactor, then the Ship, and then the crew. He must protect them in that order.
Now, we come to the Sailors and why they cheered. Those sailors are volunteers one and all. They know they face the danger of death, or serious maiming injury during their service. They accept those risks. Not because they are adrenaline junkies. But because they believe the risk is worth it. Part of what makes it worth the risk is the belief that their leaders, from the President on down, will not risk them unnecessarily. By leaving them on the ship, and dicking around instead of making the decisions that needed to be made, the Sailors knew that their lives and health was being risked in the most unnecessary way possible.
So they cheered the Captain. They cheered him and let him know they appreciated that he risked his own career to protect them. The Captain was willing to sacrifice for his people, and they knew it, and would probably follow him into hell without hesitation. He risked for them. Loyalty not only flows up, but flows down.
Moldy saw this and was enraged. How dare those sailors defy him when they should have considered the Captain a Disgrace. Moldy was so incensed he flew to Guam to shout at the Sailors. He called the Captain an idiot. Well there was an idiot involved but it wasn’t the Captain.
Moldy was thin skinned and had no idea what made the Navy, or any Military unit work. Modly served seven years in the Navy as a Helicopter Pilot. This seems hard to believe, and easy to believe. I suspect he was an officer like the Lieutenant in Good Morning Vietnam. The kind who thought that being an officer was all about the salutes and how the men showed respect.
To fly to Guam and chastise the crew shows how petty and vindictive he is. To call the Captain an idiot guaranteed that no enlisted in the navy would ever respect him ever again. No officer would believe that the Chain of Command would do the right thing, because of the actions of one Martinet who was given a job where he had no damned business being.
On Paper, he may be a good choice, but in practice, he dropped the ball the second it was handed to him. Captain Crozier‘s career may be over. Hell, we need to be honest, it’s over. But he will go down as a hero who placed honor and integrity first and foremost ahead of all other political considerations. The Junior Officers and Enlisted will speak of him with reverence. And I have no doubt that Captain Crozier will get a job once this plague is over. Because let’s say he works for Lockheed, then everyone will know that Crozier won’t sign off on something unless it is right, not just good enough. Lockheed would love that sort of obvious symbol of integrity, as would many other Defense Contractors.
Moldy, I wouldn’t trust him to confirm that Night was Dark and Day was Light. His Government career is over. I know he was a teacher at the Air Force Academy. I doubt he’ll be able to get another similar position. I can’t imagine anyone hiring him knowing that at the first sign of pressure he lashes out and acts impulsively. Perhaps he has a future as a District Manager of some fast food chain, but I would sincerely doubt it.
To date, he has not been given a fair hearing of charges. I suspect the Navy wants this whole thing to go away.
The Navy was acting irresponsibly during an immediate crisis. Working up through the chain of command would have resulted in extensive delays
Crozier shotgunned his plea to everyone who could make a difference.
Cost him his career
when they had a ship to take the Roosevelts place it would have been relieved
But that decision belongs to the the Navy not Crozier
The readiness of the Roosevelt has gone to hell because of the affect the Navy’s callous action had on the morale of the crew.
Crozier informed the whole world as well as his superiorsThe Navy was carrying out its missionCrozier acted very irresponsibly by going outside and over the heads of his chain of commandI suspect that once a new administration comes in that Capt Crozier will find this whole sad episode erased from his record.This situation is of interest to me. I’ve read about it as it was going on, and knew it was only a matter of time before the jackass Moldy resigned.
To really understand it, you have to start at the beginning. A Carrier has nearly 5,000 people aboard. That is the population of a good sized town living in a skyscraper. Using the same facilities, breathing the same air, sleeping inches away from one another. Sitting close to each other as they eat. To say it is a perfect environment for disease to spread is an understatement.
To battle this they have some quarantine ability, but not nearly enough. So when something comes up like Coronavirus, they are somewhat hamstrung. Lack of testing is a problem for us all, not just the Navy, but you can see where it would be a serious problem aboard a ship. So the Captain of the Ship when he realized that this was the worst case scenario started to call for permission to do several common sense things that we are doing for every single other ship. Docking, testing, treatment, and quarantine. You know, what is happening for those cruise ships as one example.
The Navy started to drag their feet. They did not want to lose the ability to project force. But that projection would have been a little more than a shadow puppet. There is no way that you can conduct combat operations with a even a small percentage of the crew ill. Remember Rommel had serious problems with Dysentery during the North African battles, and that reduced the numbers of soldiers available for combat operations. Those who were available would have been weakened.
So the Captain committed the ultimate sin. He put his concerns and requests in writing. This makes his concerns and requests a matter of official record, and he copied in everyone who had oversight of the ship. That is a lot of people. You have the Nuclear Propulsion division of the Navy overseeing the reactors. They had to be notified that the crew was at risk of getting this bug and that might reduce the available personnel to oversee the reactors to well below mandated numbers. Flight Operations falls under another Navy Office, Personnel Command, Combat Commands, Medical Commands. All of those offices have oversight of the Carrier, and probably many more.
The Captain was chastised for leaking the Memo, but nobody was able to show he did it. When that flaw was pointed out, the claims of Moldy were that the Captain sent it to so many people knowing that someone would leak it to the press. Well sure, someone would. But why in the name of all that is Holy did it take the Press learning of it to get the Navy to do what they should have done in the first place? Dock the ship, and start treating the sick and screening the others, and evacuating as many as possible to quarantine and testing?
Now, Moldy was embarrassed. He decided someone had to be punished for making him look like an ass. Sadly, Moldy didn’t realize that the person who made him look like an Ass was himself. So Moldy fired the Captain, thus showing how shallow he was, and there would be other examples.
When the Captain departed the ship, the crew cheered him. The Captain was doing his job, taking care of the ship, and the crew. His responsibilities are first the Reactor, then the Ship, and then the crew. He must protect them in that order.
Now, we come to the Sailors and why they cheered. Those sailors are volunteers one and all. They know they face the danger of death, or serious maiming injury during their service. They accept those risks. Not because they are adrenaline junkies. But because they believe the risk is worth it. Part of what makes it worth the risk is the belief that their leaders, from the President on down, will not risk them unnecessarily. By leaving them on the ship, and dicking around instead of making the decisions that needed to be made, the Sailors knew that their lives and health was being risked in the most unnecessary way possible.
So they cheered the Captain. They cheered him and let him know they appreciated that he risked his own career to protect them. The Captain was willing to sacrifice for his people, and they knew it, and would probably follow him into hell without hesitation. He risked for them. Loyalty not only flows up, but flows down.
Moldy saw this and was enraged. How dare those sailors defy him when they should have considered the Captain a Disgrace. Moldy was so incensed he flew to Guam to shout at the Sailors. He called the Captain an idiot. Well there was an idiot involved but it wasn’t the Captain.
Moldy was thin skinned and had no idea what made the Navy, or any Military unit work. Modly served seven years in the Navy as a Helicopter Pilot. This seems hard to believe, and easy to believe. I suspect he was an officer like the Lieutenant in Good Morning Vietnam. The kind who thought that being an officer was all about the salutes and how the men showed respect.
To fly to Guam and chastise the crew shows how petty and vindictive he is. To call the Captain an idiot guaranteed that no enlisted in the navy would ever respect him ever again. No officer would believe that the Chain of Command would do the right thing, because of the actions of one Martinet who was given a job where he had no damned business being.
On Paper, he may be a good choice, but in practice, he dropped the ball the second it was handed to him. Captain Crozier‘s career may be over. Hell, we need to be honest, it’s over. But he will go down as a hero who placed honor and integrity first and foremost ahead of all other political considerations. The Junior Officers and Enlisted will speak of him with reverence. And I have no doubt that Captain Crozier will get a job once this plague is over. Because let’s say he works for Lockheed, then everyone will know that Crozier won’t sign off on something unless it is right, not just good enough. Lockheed would love that sort of obvious symbol of integrity, as would many other Defense Contractors.
Moldy, I wouldn’t trust him to confirm that Night was Dark and Day was Light. His Government career is over. I know he was a teacher at the Air Force Academy. I doubt he’ll be able to get another similar position. I can’t imagine anyone hiring him knowing that at the first sign of pressure he lashes out and acts impulsively. Perhaps he has a future as a District Manager of some fast food chain, but I would sincerely doubt it.
To date, he has not been given a fair hearing of charges. I suspect the Navy wants this whole thing to go away.
The Navy was acting irresponsibly during an immediate crisis. Working up through the chain of command would have resulted in extensive delays
Crozier shotgunned his plea to everyone who could make a difference.
Cost him his career
when they had a ship to take the Roosevelts place it would have been relieved
But that decision belongs to the the Navy not Crozier
Readiness is absolutely the call of the on scene commander. If he feels his unit is not combat ready he absolutely has the responsibility to inform his superiors. What service were you in? What was your specialty?
Its not Croziers call about what his mission should beSo are we going to cancel national defense along with the economy?no sailors on the USS Roosevelt died from the chinese disease
nor is it likely more would have died at sea than on land
It is almost certain that far more would have gotten sick. It is therefore more likely that more would die, since Sailors like everyone else have other medical considerations. The Captain got it, and we don’t know how severe a case it might be yet, but we know that the Captain wasn’t down in the Sickbay tending to the ill.
very few young military with no underlying conditions will die from the chinese disease anywhere in the world
and the mission must continue
What Mission? Everyone is focused inwards. Iran is busy denying that their population has it. China is trying to get trade going again. What war mission are you talking about? And while your fevered imagination is running smoke troops will have their moral head into the deep negative category.
Do you have a link which proves the CO of the carrier leaked the letter? Or are you just making shit up yet again?A Navy officer leaked a letter to the media. He was going to get “fired”, or removed from his post no matter what.Coronavirus warship row: Acting US Navy secretary resigns
The acting Navy chief was under fire for ousting a captain who pleaded for help fighting Covid-19.www.bbc.co.uk
The acting secretary of the US Navy has resigned amid uproar over his handling of a coronavirus outbreak on an aircraft carrier.
Thomas Modly fired the USS Theodore Roosevelt's captain after he pleaded for help in a letter leaked to media.
Mr Modly apologised on Monday after it emerged he had called Captain Brett Crozier's actions "naive" and "stupid".
Is Captain Crozier a hero of the Corona War or a commie subversive ?
I like the story of the crew applauding him when he left the ship. That must be worth more than any medal.
