Accomplished!

[Annie]

JUST A QUESTION: If someone had said in February 2003, that by June 2004, Saddam Hussein would have been removed from power and captured; that a diverse new government, including Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds, would be installed; that elections would be scheduled for January 2005; and that the liberation of a devastated country of 25 million in which everyone owns an AK-47 had been accomplished with an army of around 140,000 with a total casualty rate (including accidents and friendly fire) of around 800; that no oil fields had been set aflame; no WMDs had been used; no mass refugee crises had emerged; and no civil war had broken out... well, I think you would come to the conclusion that the war had been an extraordinary success. And you'd be right. Yes, there are enormous challenges; and yes, so much more could have been achieved without incompetence, infighting and occasional inhumanity. But it's worth acknowledging that, with a little perspective, our current gloom is over-blown. Stocks in Iraq have been way over-sold. I even regret some minor sells myself. Now watch the media do all it can to accentuate the negative.

 

[st8_o_mind]

You are about a year late. Bush declared the mission "accomplished" over a year ago. Since then of course, about 500 Americans have gotten killed, a couple thousand more shot or blown up, thousands of Iraqi's killed, a few tortured and a wedding ruined.

I think just about everybody hopes that this occupation does not devolve into a civil war, destabilize the entire region, or lead to more terrorists attacks against the US. The jury is still out.

But until the last US soldier can return home to his or her family with all ten fingers and toes intact, I'll hold off on the celebration.

 

[Annie]

When GW said 'Mission Accomplished' he spoke too soon. I agree with you. However, he was speaking of the 'war' not the aftermath. That is what we are now dealing with.

There is no overestimating the worth of each casualty, however 900 dead in over a year is so miniscule in the rhelm of warfare that it's nearly impossible to deal with.

Of course, if one is of the mindset that 'anyone is better' then I guess 1, 900, or whatever won't matter.

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by st8_o_mind
You are about a year late. Bush declared the mission "accomplished" over a year ago.

The President never declared that the mission was accomplished. He declared an end to major combat operations, and went on to explain what needed to be done before we could leave. The banner indicated that ship's mission was accomplished, as indeed it was.

I know you're just trying to get a head start, but isn't it a bit premature to start rewriting history?

George Bush aboard the USS Lincoln

May 1, 2003


Thank you all very much. Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. And now our Coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.

In this battle, we have fought for the cause of liberty, and for the peace of the world. Our nation and our Coalition are proud of this accomplishment — yet, it is you, the members of the United States military, who achieved it. Your courage, your willingness to face danger for your country and for each other, made this day possible. Because of you, our nation is more secure. Because of you, the tyrant has fallen, and Iraq is free.

Operation Iraqi Freedom was carried out with a combination of precision and speed and boldness the enemy did not expect, and the world had not seen before. From distant bases or ships at sea, we sent planes and missiles that could destroy an enemy division, or strike a single bunker. Marines and soldiers charged to Baghdad across 350 miles of hostile ground, in one of the swiftest advances of heavy arms in history. You have shown the world the skill and the might of the American Armed Forces.

This nation thanks all the members of our Coalition who joined in a noble cause. We thank the Armed Forces of the United Kingdom, Australia, and Poland, who shared in the hardships of war. We thank all the citizens of Iraq who welcomed our troops and joined in the liberation of their own country. And tonight, I have a special word for Secretary Rumsfeld, for General Franks, and for all the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States: America is grateful for a job well done.

The character of our military through history — the daring of Normandy, the fierce courage of Iwo Jima, the decency and idealism that turned enemies into allies — is fully present in this generation. When Iraqi civilians looked into the faces of our servicemen and women, they saw strength and kindness and goodwill. When I look at the members of the United States military, I see the best of our country, and I'm honored to be your commander in chief.

In the images of falling statues, we have witnessed the arrival of a new era. For a hundred of years of war, culminating in the nuclear age, military technology was designed and deployed to inflict casualties on an ever-growing scale. In defeating Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, Allied forces destroyed entire cities, while enemy leaders who started the conflict were safe until the final days. Military power was used to end a regime by breaking a nation.

Today, we have the greater power to free a nation by breaking a dangerous and aggressive regime. With new tactics and precision weapons, we can achieve military objectives without directing violence against civilians. No device of man can remove the tragedy from war; yet it is a great moral advance when the guilty have far more to fear from war than the innocent.

In the images of celebrating Iraqis, we have also seen the ageless appeal of human freedom. Decades of lies and intimidation could not make the Iraqi people love their oppressors or desire their own enslavement. Men and women in every culture need liberty like they need food and water and air. Everywhere that freedom arrives, humanity rejoices; and everywhere that freedom stirs, let tyrants fear.

We have difficult work to do in Iraq. We're bringing order to parts of that country that remain dangerous. We're pursuing and finding leaders of the old regime, who will be held to account for their crimes. We've begun the search for hidden chemical and biological weapons and already know of hundreds of sites that will be investigated. We're helping to rebuild Iraq, where the dictator built palaces for himself, instead of hospitals and schools. And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people.

The transition from dictatorship to democracy will take time, but it is worth every effort. Our Coalition will stay until our work is done. Then we will leave, and we will leave behind a free Iraq.

The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 — and still goes on. That terrible morning, 19 evil men — the shock troops of a hateful ideology — gave America and the civilized world a glimpse of their ambitions. They imagined, in the words of one terrorist, that September the 11th would be the "beginning of the end of America." By seeking to turn our cities into killing fields, terrorists and their allies believed that they could destroy this nation's resolve, and force our retreat from the world. They have failed.

In the battle of Afghanistan, we destroyed the Taliban, many terrorists, and the camps where they trained. We continue to help the Afghan people lay roads, restore hospitals, and educate all of their children. Yet we also have dangerous work to complete. As I speak, a Special Operations task force, led by the 82nd Airborne, is on the trail of the terrorists and those who seek to undermine the free government of Afghanistan. America and our Coalition will finish what we have begun.

From Pakistan to the Philippines to the Horn of Africa, we are hunting down al Qaeda killers. Nineteen months ago, I pledged that the terrorists would not escape the patient justice of the United States. And as of tonight, nearly one-half of al Qaeda's senior operatives have been captured or killed.

The liberation of Iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. We've removed an ally of al Qaeda, and cut off a source of terrorist funding. And this much is certain: No terrorist network will gain weapons of mass destruction from the Iraqi regime, because the regime is no more.

In these 19 months that changed the world, our actions have been focused and deliberate and proportionate to the offense. We have not forgotten the victims of September the 11th — the last phone calls, the cold murder of children, the searches in the rubble. With those attacks, the terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States. And war is what they got.

Our war against terror is proceeding according to principles that I have made clear to all: Any person involved in committing or planning terrorist attacks against the American people becomes an enemy of this country, and a target of American justice.

Any person, organization, or government that supports, protects, or harbors terrorists is complicit in the murder of the innocent, and equally guilty of terrorist crimes.

Any outlaw regime that has ties to terrorist groups and seeks or possesses weapons of mass destruction is a grave danger to the civilized world — and will be confronted.
And anyone in the world, including the Arab world, who works and sacrifices for freedom has a loyal friend in the United States of America.

Our commitment to liberty is America's tradition — declared at our founding; affirmed in Franklin Roosevelt's Four Freedoms; asserted in the Truman Doctrine and in Ronald Reagan's challenge to an evil empire. We are committed to freedom in Afghanistan, in Iraq, and in a peaceful Palestine. The advance of freedom is the surest strategy to undermine the appeal of terror in the world. Where freedom takes hold, hatred gives way to hope. When freedom takes hold, men and women turn to the peaceful pursuit of a better life. American values and American interests lead in the same direction: We stand for human liberty.

The United States upholds these principles of security and freedom in many ways — with all the tools of diplomacy, law enforcement, intelligence, and finance. We're working with a broad Coalition of nations that understand the threat and our shared responsibility to meet it. The use of force has been — and remains — our last resort. Yet all can know, friend and foe alike, that our nation has a mission: We will answer threats to our security, and we will defend the peace.

Our mission continues. Al Qaeda is wounded, not destroyed. The scattered cells of the terrorist network still operate in many nations, and we know from daily intelligence that they continue to plot against free people. The proliferation of deadly weapons remains a serious danger. The enemies of freedom are not idle, and neither are we. Our government has taken unprecedented measures to defend the homeland. And we will continue to hunt down the enemy before he can strike.

The war on terror is not over; yet it is not endless. We do not know the day of final victory, but we have seen the turning of the tide. No act of the terrorists will change our purpose, or weaken our resolve, or alter their fate. Their cause is lost. Free nations will press on to victory.

Other nations in history have fought in foreign lands and remained to occupy and exploit. Americans, following a battle, want nothing more than to return home. And that is your direction tonight. After service in the Afghan — and Iraqi theaters of war — after 100,000 miles, on the longest carrier deployment in recent history, you are homeward bound. Some of you will see new family members for the first time — 150 babies were born while their fathers were on the Lincoln. Your families are proud of you, and your nation will welcome you.

We are mindful, as well, that some good men and women are not making the journey home. One of those who fell, Corporal Jason Mileo, spoke to his parents five days before his death. Jason's father said, "He called us from the center of Baghdad, not to brag, but to tell us he loved us. Our son was a soldier."

Every name, every life is a loss to our military, to our nation, and to the loved ones who grieve. There's no homecoming for these families. Yet we pray, in God's time, their reunion will come.

Those we lost were last seen on duty. Their final act on this Earth was to fight a great evil and bring liberty to others. All of you — all in this generation of our military — have taken up the highest calling of history. You're defending your country, and protecting the innocent from harm. And wherever you go, you carry a message of hope — a message that is ancient and ever new. In the words of the prophet Isaiah, "To the captives, 'come out,' — and to those in darkness, 'be free.'"

Thank you for serving our country and our cause. May God bless you all, and may God continue to bless America.

There has never been a more noble civilization of people in all recorded human history than the people of the United States of America. Yet you fail to see it.

Those Americans died so that others might be free, and what have you done with that freedom? Lied.

 

[menewa]

[There has never been a more noble civilization of people in all recorded human history than the people of the United States of America. Yet you fail to see it.

Those Americans died so that others might be free, and what have you done with that freedom? Lied. [/B][/QUOTE]

"never been a more noble civilization?" Are you serious.
Okay, maybe if you forget the largest genocide and land theft of all history against a common people and the largest mass importation of slave labor of all time and the largest accumulation of weapons of mass destruction of all time as well. Oh yeah, don't forget our prison system,we have more people incarcerated than other country in the world.

The US definitely has many appealing aspects and deserves high rankings among the many civilizations that have existed, but to say it's the most noble civilization of all history defies the meaning of noble altogether and implies a complete forgetting of the last 200 years of history.

 

[Adam's Apple]

Menewa, in a comparison of the history of the nobility of all civilized nations, I would certainly bet all my money on the USA.
There are too many hate-filled people in the world who envy and despise America for what it has accomplished in 200 years. But when they get in trouble/need help, what country comes first to their minds? And for good reason, too--they know they can count on America to help them.

 

[st8_o_mind]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
Shit_for_mind - You are right! we should realize that war should not be like this. I mean for god sakes why do they use real bullet's and bomb's? how stupid is that? They should really be over there slinging dirt bombs at each other!

I hope the region does get destabilized and a major civil war breaks out! let the fuckers kill each other, I wont loose any sleep!
And you wont be holding any celebrations until someone like Kerry get's into office and really fuck's up this country! Go crawl back under your rock you foolish little man!

You're in an institution arn't you?

 

[OCA]

Wait one sec! Nothing is accomplished or finished until we back up every oil tanker flying under a U.S. flag and loot that country of all its oil. Well heck if the leftists think this was all about oil and business lets prove them right. If the Iraqi people really want the mullahs and the terrorists to run the country lets see them do it without any natural resources, all of this would be of course after the massive civil war that is bound to happen after the transfer of power.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by st8_o_mind
You are about a year late. Bush declared the mission "accomplished" over a year ago. Since then of course, about 500 Americans have gotten killed, a couple thousand more shot or blown up, thousands of Iraqi's killed, a few tortured and a wedding ruined.

I think just about everybody hopes that this occupation does not devolve into a civil war, destabilize the entire region, or lead to more terrorists attacks against the US. The jury is still out.

But until the last US soldier can return home to his or her family with all ten fingers and toes intact, I'll hold off on the celebration.

First, as has already been mentioned, Bush declared that major combat operations were over. He was mostly right; we haven't had a major campaign since then, though we have had a whole lot of fighting in and around Iraqi cities.

Second, there is plenty of reason to celebrate what has already happened. Kathianne's post is very relevant; the US-led coalition has acheived some monumental successes. I share your concern that there are a lot of troops still in Iraq, including many friends of mine, and I hope they all come back safely just as you do. But I think it is unwise to say that we shouldn't look at our progress until we leave.

 

[st8_o_mind]

Originally posted by Zhukov
The President never declared that the mission was accomplished. He declared an end to major combat operations, and went on to explain what needed to be done before we could leave. The banner indicated that ship's mission was accomplished, as indeed it was.

I know you're just trying to get a head start, but isn't it a bit premature to start rewriting history?

"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." -- Bush

The White House flew about half the Washington press corps to an aircraft carrier to record the victorious president’s dramatic landing on the Lincoln and his address to the nation, in uniform, under a banner supplied by the White House that read “mission accomplished" which was hung behind the podium where Shrub was to speak. But that was just for the ship. You gotta be kidding. You can spin it any way you like, as indeed the White House attempted to, by claiming (and later retracting) that the banner was produced by the crew of the Lincoln after the Prez. was criticized for prematurely declaring victory while Americans were being killed daily in Iraq.

Perhaps you should consider a career change and become a spin doctor for the Bush media team, though, God willing and the creek don’t rise, the job will only be available for the next six months.

 

[OCA]

ST8 come on man, really I do think you have some intelligence so you must know that there is no way that John Kerry will be elected. Yeah you can give me all the pols you want today but the fact is half of the Professed Kerry voters will change their mind in the polling booth. Hell at this time in 1984 Mondale was ahead of Reagan for chrissakes! Its going to be a landslide because the negatives with Kerry far outweigh the positives and his policies are just to friggin scary and dangerous for even the most moderate American to consider. Intelligently you know we are just going through the motions now. The only question left though is will you show your face here on Nov.3?

 

[st8_o_mind]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
there are a lot of troops still in Iraq, including many friends of mine, and I hope they all come back safely just as you do.

Amen.

Originally posted by gop_jeff But I think it is unwise to say that we shouldn't look at our progress until we leave. ]

Point takien, but it is this team that claimed that the US would be welcomed as liberators, that the Iraqi's would be able to finance their own reconstruction, that the mission could be accomplished with less than half of the troops that Gen. Shensheki (spelling?) recommended, that the occupation would be short with most of the troops cycled out by now.

The "mission accomplished" is just more of the same crap, Washington speak, political spin, media consultant generated, "official who declined to be identified" quoted, focus group vetted, Washington Bullsh**.

And Jeff, judging from some of your other posts, I believe you already knew that. So gimme a break.

 

[st8_o_mind]

Originally posted by OCA
ST8 come on man, really I do think you have some intelligence so you must know that there is no way that John Kerry will be elected. Yeah you can give me all the pols you want today but the fact is half of the Professed Kerry voters will change their mind in the polling booth. Hell at this time in 1984 Mondale was ahead of Reagan for chrissakes! Its going to be a landslide because the negatives with Kerry far outweigh the positives and his policies are just to friggin scary and dangerous for even the most moderate American to consider. Intelligently you know we are just going through the motions now. The only question left though is will you show your face here on Nov.3?

As I've posted before, I'm not a big Kerry fan and I have not supported him through the democratic primary process.

As far as your analysis goes, you make some valid points, but I think it is too early to tell what is going to happen in November. As you know, in politics, things can change quickly.

I tend to think you are right with respect to Kerry's base of support. At this point I think most dems don't so much support Kerry as they oppose Bush. How that translates at the polls, particularly in terms of voter turn out remains to be seen.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by st8_o_mind
Point takien, but it is this team that claimed that the US would be welcomed as liberators, that the Iraqi's would be able to finance their own reconstruction, that the mission could be accomplished with less than half of the troops that Gen. Shensheki (spelling?) recommended, that the occupation would be short with most of the troops cycled out by now.

Ahh... but much of the reconstruction has been financed by Iraqi funds - specifically funds that Saddam had been storing away. Many - dare I say most - Iraqis have welcomed the overthrow of Saddam and the subsequent restructuring of the government, though I will agree that the image of worshipped liberators was overdone. And you're right, we have been in Iraq longer than we originally thought. My thoughts on that have to do with the military culture and the ease with which the US has won its past few wars, and then transferring that thinking to the rebuilding of a nation. IMO, they were overly optimistic, but as we say in the Army, no battle plan survives the first contact.

The "mission accomplished" is just more of the same crap, Washington speak, political spin, media consultant generated, "official who declined to be identified" quoted, focus group vetted, Washington Bullsh**.

And Jeff, judging from some of your other posts, I believe you already knew that. So gimme a break.

Look, if I were President, I wouldn't have done what Bush did on the carrier. But I'm not Bush. But you can read Bush's speech, 10 posts up, and see that he very clearly stated that the mission to rebuild Iraq was just starting, but the mission to defeat Saddam Hussein was very clearly over. You can call it spin, but it's pretty clear to me what was said.

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by st8_o_mind
"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." -- Bush

That's right. But you claimed, in quotes, that the President said ' mission "accomplished" '. You lied.

You can supply any spin you like beyond that, but once you've begun a post with a lie why would you expect anyone to continue to take anything you write seriously? As if anyone did to begin with.

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by menewa
"never been a more noble civilization?" Are you serious.

Name one country that has sacrificed more lives to liberate other people.

maybe if you forget the largest genocide

No, but you did. It was perpetrated by a man named Mao Tse Tung.

and land theft of all history against a common people

I would credit the communists with that one too.

and the largest mass importation of slave labor of all time

How many Americans died to free them?

and the largest accumulation of weapons of mass destruction of all time as well.

Can you explain how that's relevant? That's right, we spent our money to deter the communists from conquering and enslaving the world. Sounds pretty noble to me.

Oh yeah, don't forget our prison system,we have more people incarcerated than other country in the world.

So what?

but to say it's the most noble civilization of all history defies the meaning of noble altogether and implies a complete forgetting of the last 200 years of history.

Name a country more noble than the United States of America, one that has sacrificed more for the freedom of complete strangers, that has more often conducted itself with high moral character, that has been more generous with its wealth.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Name one country that has sacrificed more lives to liberate other people.

I'd say a tie between the scottish and the irish.

 

[st8_o_mind]

Originally posted by gop_jeff
Ahh... but much of the reconstruction has been financed by Iraqi funds - specifically funds that Saddam had been storing away. Many - dare I say most - Iraqis have welcomed the overthrow of Saddam and the subsequent restructuring of the government, though I will agree that the image of worshipped liberators was overdone. And you're right, we have been in Iraq longer than we originally thought. My thoughts on that have to do with the military culture and the ease with which the US has won its past few wars, and then transferring that thinking to the rebuilding of a nation. IMO, they were overly optimistic, but as we say in the Army, no battle plan survives the first contact.



Look, if I were President, I wouldn't have done what Bush did on the carrier. But I'm not Bush. But you can read Bush's speech, 10 posts up, and see that he very clearly stated that the mission to rebuild Iraq was just starting, but the mission to defeat Saddam Hussein was very clearly over. You can call it spin, but it's pretty clear to me what was said.

It is also said that the first casualty of war is the truth. But what you wrote about no plan surviving first contact seems true enough to me. Still, I don’t thing “overly optimistic” goes far enough. Gen. Shensheki (someone please tell me how to spell that guy’s name) laid out force requirements and occupation plans that were more realistic and he was promptly fired. Maybe folks have been telling Bush what he wants to hear to avoid the same fate, and maybe the occupation is just a heck of a lot more difficult than anyone could have reasonably predicted. I don’t know. My hunch is that both are true.

 

[5stringJeff]

Originally posted by st8_o_mind
It is also said that the first casualty of war is the truth. But what you wrote about no plan surviving first contact seems true enough to me. Still, I don’t thing “overly optimistic” goes far enough. Gen. Shensheki (someone please tell me how to spell that guy’s name) laid out force requirements and occupation plans that were more realistic and he was promptly fired. Maybe folks have been telling Bush what he wants to hear to avoid the same fate, and maybe the occupation is just a heck of a lot more difficult than anyone could have reasonably predicted. I don’t know. My hunch is that both are true.

GEN Shinseki had been the Chief of Staff of the Army for about 4 years by the time the Iraq War was getting started. I did not read about the details of his leaving, but 4 years is about average for a CSA to serve. I have not read any accounts of his battle plan vs. the other battle plans that were laid out. But I will agree with you that the occupation was probably more involved than planners thought it would be. Heck, I'm involved in a little bit at work, at it's complicated!

 

[Zhukov]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
I'd say a tie between the scottish and the irish.

Are you serious?