Accepting the Consequences For Ones Actions Doesn't Even Occur to the Pali Mindset.

[Phoenall]

There really are few Russians , European, and American Jews even in Israel, a generation in the Bible was 40 years, so one needs to go back at least 50 generations to even know if they were descended from Jews of Judea, or even an Israelite, if there was a Jacob (also, the twelve tribes didn't get along at all), what happened is lots of secular and some religious Russians who did practice Judaism, decided to move to Palestine. It can not and will never be a Jewish country , the Palestinians are most likely more descended from the biblical jews than any of the non Palestinians.

Then again the orthodox have moved in and where do you find them, in the West Bank, and the so called seculars are not happy they are there either. They are zealots and are just as bad as the seculars.

Gee for all I know my decedents may go back to the Levant. Its so ludicrous to even think of a Jewish state. Palestinians are real people, as they are Christians, Muslims, Jews and even some secular.

Time to get real.

You have shown that the Jews of Europe are racially the same as the Jews of Judea so why are you now trying to say otherwise. Time to make your mind up, was Lenin a Jew because his maternal grandfather was a Jew or was Lenin a Jew because he practised Judaism while being an atheist

 

[Phoenall]

Regardless of all the bluff and bluster the pali mindset in Gaza is "where's my hand out"

VS
The pali mindset in Israel which is more like, "thank all the gods I don't live anywhere else".

See
For Palestinian citizens of Israel, this place is home

End the blockade and they won't need handouts.

You deliberately destroy their economy, then complain they need handouts.

You are really sick in the head!

There was no blockade in 2005 yet there was still violence and rockets, care to explain why this was ?

They destroyed their own economy with no help from anyone when they attacked Israel in 1948.

That would be you as you refuse to see any wrong in what the Palestinians are doing, and you think that no international law should ever support Israel

 

[Phoenall]

Hamas should be paying them, they're their government.

Hamas is the first channel, and has more than enough money to help those poor people. But well, rockets are more important. And Tunnles, too.

And why should they even consider doing that, when they can blame the Israelis.

Which reminds me, whatever happens when a fly is found in one's coffee?

The English- throws away the cup and leaves the coffeeplace.

The American- takes out the fly and drinks the coffee.

The Chinese- keeps the fly and throws out the coffee

The Japanese- drinks up the coffee with the fly

The Palestinian- blames the Israeli for intentionally damaging his coffee, demands compansation from all the above individuals, and with rest of the money buys some explosives to bunish the evil Jew.

The Israeli- rolls eyes at the Palestinian rediculousness, sells the coffee to the American, the Fly to the Chinese, and with the money buys himself new coffee.

Ta-Da.

But you did damage their coffee. Why can't you accept the consequences of YOUR own actions?

As far as I'm concerned, the Pals should damage your Milky.

We delivered the very best coffee and hamas decided that the plebs could drink muddy water, so they blamed it on the Jews.

 

[Phoenall]

Penelope, et al,

• People who live in glass houses (shouldn't throw stones).

People should not criticize other people for faults that they have themselves. ​

​

I'm pretty sure people criticizing Israel for their illegal and immoral occupation of Palestinian land, are not, they themselves, occupying someone else's land as well.

As I was attempting to convey to P F Tinmore (and a couple others), their attempts to suggest that the armed struggle against the Occupation Power is totally legal, is a very false assumption.

Similarly, attempts to be convincing that the Naval Blockade is illegal, is not cut'n'dry either.

San Remo Manual on International Law applied to Armed Conflicts at Sea --- Section II : Methods of warfare

BLOCKADE

93. A blockade shall be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral States.

View attachment 61774​

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration, location, and extent of the blockade and the period within which vessels of neutral States may leave the blockaded coastline.

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.

96. The force maintaining the blockade may be stationed at a distance determined by military requirements.

97. A blockade may be enforced and maintained by a combination of legitimate methods and means of warfare provided this combination does not result in acts inconsistent with the rules set out in this document.

98. Merchant vessels believed on reasonable grounds to be breaching a blockade may be captured. Merchant vessels which, after prior warning, clearly resist capture may be attacked.

99. A blockade must not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral States.

100. A blockade must be applied impartially to the vessels of all States.

101. The cessation, temporary lifting, re-establishment, extension or other alteration of a blockade must be declared and notified as in paragraphs 93 and 94.

102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:

(a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or

(b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.
​

103. If the civilian population of the blockaded territory is inadequately provided with food and other objects essential for its survival, the blockading party must provide for free passage of such foodstuffs and other essential supplies, subject to:

(a) the right to prescribe the technical arrangements, including search, under which such passage is permitted; and

(b) the condition that the distribution of such supplies shall be made under the local supervision of a Protecting Power or a humanitarian organization which offers guarantees of impartiality, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross.
​

104. The blockading belligerent shall allow the passage of medical supplies for the civilian population or for the wounded and sick members of armed forces, subject to the right to prescribe technical arrangements, including search, under which such passage is permitted.​

Most Respectfully,
R

This is not a war!

A war is between army vs army; navy vs navy; not occupational force vs humanitarian aid vessel or people fishing.

The blockade is collective punishment and that is a crime against humanity.

Who says that the occupation is illegal then, how about a link to the UN, ICC or ICJ that says that, and not the usual crap that goes on about the seperation barrier and nothing else.


No a war is between two armed groups started by one wanting what the other has. Even if it is armed forces against armed forces the alleged humanitarian aid and fishermen will be seen as enemy combatants under the Geneva conventions and so are targeted


Which court has decided that the blockade is a crime against humanity then, as I cant find any mention outside of the Jew hatred sites

 

[Phoenall]

I am not aware of a single Palestinian Israeli citizen who has opted to leave Israel to go live in some Arab country. Is anyone?

But Jews are.

For every 2 Jews coming to Israel, there are 3 Jews going to live somewhere else.

And that is definitely the consequence of Israel's actions.

Yet the population of Israel is increasing, so how do you work that one out. Which Jew hatred site did you read to get that LIE from ?

 

[Phoenall]

Hamas should have canned the tunnels and repaired housing instead.
2200 units were opened to move into and another 1000+ are almost finished.

Hamas would rather just add more gazans to the martyr list instead

You just have to keep telling that lie, so you don't have to deal with the consequences of your own actions.

What LIE as everything above is true and based on the evidence available. Why has hamas put 90% of building materials into tunnels and just 10% into repairing their own structures. Leaving the arab muslims with nothing to fall back on

 

[Penelope]

Penelope, et al,

• People who live in glass houses (shouldn't throw stones).

People should not criticize other people for faults that they have themselves.​

This article is a prime example of the consequences the pali terrorism. The attitude is a consequence of a lifetime of handouts and living in denial.

This article is a perfect example of how the pali's don't have the remotest ability to accept the consequences of their actions as being 100% there own responsibility

Homeless Gazans struggle during harsh winter

Israel should be paying for repays, they are war criminals.

(COMMENT)

As I was attempting to convey to P F Tinmore (and a couple others), their attempts to suggest that the armed struggle against the Occupation Power is totally legal, is a very false assumption.

Similarly, attempts to be convincing that the Naval Blockade is illegal, is not cut'n'dry either.

San Remo Manual on International Law applied to Armed Conflicts at Sea --- Section II : Methods of warfare

BLOCKADE

93. A blockade shall be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral States.

View attachment 61774​

94. The declaration shall specify the commencement, duration, location, and extent of the blockade and the period within which vessels of neutral States may leave the blockaded coastline.

95. A blockade must be effective. The question whether a blockade is effective is a question of fact.

96. The force maintaining the blockade may be stationed at a distance determined by military requirements.

97. A blockade may be enforced and maintained by a combination of legitimate methods and means of warfare provided this combination does not result in acts inconsistent with the rules set out in this document.

98. Merchant vessels believed on reasonable grounds to be breaching a blockade may be captured. Merchant vessels which, after prior warning, clearly resist capture may be attacked.

99. A blockade must not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral States.

100. A blockade must be applied impartially to the vessels of all States.

101. The cessation, temporary lifting, re-establishment, extension or other alteration of a blockade must be declared and notified as in paragraphs 93 and 94.

102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:

(a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or

(b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade.
​

103. If the civilian population of the blockaded territory is inadequately provided with food and other objects essential for its survival, the blockading party must provide for free passage of such foodstuffs and other essential supplies, subject to:

(a) the right to prescribe the technical arrangements, including search, under which such passage is permitted; and

(b) the condition that the distribution of such supplies shall be made under the local supervision of a Protecting Power or a humanitarian organization which offers guarantees of impartiality, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross.
​

104. The blockading belligerent shall allow the passage of medical supplies for the civilian population or for the wounded and sick members of armed forces, subject to the right to prescribe technical arrangements, including search, under which such passage is permitted.​

Most Respectfully,
R

A blockade must not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral States.

They can't even fish without being shot at.

 

[Penelope]

There really are few Russians , European, and American Jews even in Israel, a generation in the Bible was 40 years, so one needs to go back at least 50 generations to even know if they were descended from Jews of Judea, or even an Israelite, if there was a Jacob (also, the twelve tribes didn't get along at all), what happened is lots of secular and some religious Russians who did practice Judaism, decided to move to Palestine. It can not and will never be a Jewish country , the Palestinians are most likely more descended from the biblical jews than any of the non Palestinians.

Then again the orthodox have moved in and where do you find them, in the West Bank, and the so called seculars are not happy they are there either. They are zealots and are just as bad as the seculars.

Gee for all I know my decedents may go back to the Levant. Its so ludicrous to even think of a Jewish state. Palestinians are real people, as they are Christians, Muslims, Jews and even some secular.

Time to get real.

The Arab Muslims of Judea, formerly Jordanian, formerly of the provinces of Ottoman Syria have not one defining characteristic that would distinguish them as a people from any other Arab Muslim in the area.

Which begs the question since they already have multiple states, why they demand another one before they suddenly lay down their arms and declare peace instead of war ?

I call BS and say not one more inch. Let the Arabs learn to be happy with the 99% or so of the middle east they already have.

As far as placating the Arab Muslims of Israel. Let them take a little responsibility for themselves instead of always depending on everyone else to feed and house them.

and what do the Jews have in common??

 

[Penelope]

There really are few Russians , European, and American Jews even in Israel, a generation in the Bible was 40 years, so one needs to go back at least 50 generations to even know if they were descended from Jews of Judea, or even an Israelite, if there was a Jacob (also, the twelve tribes didn't get along at all), what happened is lots of secular and some religious Russians who did practice Judaism, decided to move to Palestine. It can not and will never be a Jewish country , the Palestinians are most likely more descended from the biblical jews than any of the non Palestinians.

Then again the orthodox have moved in and where do you find them, in the West Bank, and the so called seculars are not happy they are there either. They are zealots and are just as bad as the seculars.

Gee for all I know my decedents may go back to the Levant. Its so ludicrous to even think of a Jewish state. Palestinians are real people, as they are Christians, Muslims, Jews and even some secular.

Time to get real.

You have shown that the Jews of Europe are racially the same as the Jews of Judea so why are you now trying to say otherwise. Time to make your mind up, was Lenin a Jew because his maternal grandfather was a Jew or was Lenin a Jew because he practised Judaism while being an atheist

Once again , Jew is not a race. They based being a jew on practicing Judaism, and most do not. Lenin was an atheist, as we Marx. They are Russians mainly, and mostly from the Ukraine area. They are a pretend people, Israel was set up to be a secular country. No religion. Those who live there see Judaism as a culture , not religion, except for the Orthodox Jews.

 

[Penelope]

I am not aware of a single Palestinian Israeli citizen who has opted to leave Israel to go live in some Arab country. Is anyone?

But Jews are.

For every 2 Jews coming to Israel, there are 3 Jews going to live somewhere else.

And that is definitely the consequence of Israel's actions.

Yet the population of Israel is increasing, so how do you work that one out. Which Jew hatred site did you read to get that LIE from ?

What do you consider as the population of Israel, are you including those orthodox jews or non Palestinians in the West Bank??

 

[ForeverYoung436]

There really are few Russians , European, and American Jews even in Israel, a generation in the Bible was 40 years, so one needs to go back at least 50 generations to even know if they were descended from Jews of Judea, or even an Israelite, if there was a Jacob (also, the twelve tribes didn't get along at all), what happened is lots of secular and some religious Russians who did practice Judaism, decided to move to Palestine. It can not and will never be a Jewish country , the Palestinians are most likely more descended from the biblical jews than any of the non Palestinians.

Then again the orthodox have moved in and where do you find them, in the West Bank, and the so called seculars are not happy they are there either. They are zealots and are just as bad as the seculars.

Gee for all I know my decedents may go back to the Levant. Its so ludicrous to even think of a Jewish state. Palestinians are real people, as they are Christians, Muslims, Jews and even some secular.

Time to get real.

You have shown that the Jews of Europe are racially the same as the Jews of Judea so why are you now trying to say otherwise. Time to make your mind up, was Lenin a Jew because his maternal grandfather was a Jew or was Lenin a Jew because he practised Judaism while being an atheist

Once again , Jew is not a race. They based being a jew on practicing Judaism, and most do not. Lenin was an atheist, as we Marx. They are Russians mainly, and mostly from the Ukraine area. They are a pretend people, Israel was set up to be a secular country. No religion. Those who live there see Judaism as a culture , not religion, except for the Orthodox Jews.

Marx was born to Jewish parents. Lenin, however, only had a Jewish grandparent on his father's side, so he wasn't Jewish. Judaism is passed thru the mother.

 

[Penelope]

There really are few Russians , European, and American Jews even in Israel, a generation in the Bible was 40 years, so one needs to go back at least 50 generations to even know if they were descended from Jews of Judea, or even an Israelite, if there was a Jacob (also, the twelve tribes didn't get along at all), what happened is lots of secular and some religious Russians who did practice Judaism, decided to move to Palestine. It can not and will never be a Jewish country , the Palestinians are most likely more descended from the biblical jews than any of the non Palestinians.

Then again the orthodox have moved in and where do you find them, in the West Bank, and the so called seculars are not happy they are there either. They are zealots and are just as bad as the seculars.

Gee for all I know my decedents may go back to the Levant. Its so ludicrous to even think of a Jewish state. Palestinians are real people, as they are Christians, Muslims, Jews and even some secular.

Time to get real.

You have shown that the Jews of Europe are racially the same as the Jews of Judea so why are you now trying to say otherwise. Time to make your mind up, was Lenin a Jew because his maternal grandfather was a Jew or was Lenin a Jew because he practised Judaism while being an atheist

Once again , Jew is not a race. They based being a jew on practicing Judaism, and most do not. Lenin was an atheist, as we Marx. They are Russians mainly, and mostly from the Ukraine area. They are a pretend people, Israel was set up to be a secular country. No religion. Those who live there see Judaism as a culture , not religion, except for the Orthodox Jews.

Marx was born to Jewish parents. Lenin, however, only had a Jewish grandparent on his father's side, so he wasn't Jewish. Judaism is passed thru the mother.

It doesn't matter, they were atheist, Judaism is passed through the Mom , really?? Who said, and what happens to the fathers genes?? Judaism is a religion, nothing is passed except the education to practice Judaism. As a RC we were told the same, once a RC always a RC and if your Mom is a RC you are. But we also know that is not a race, as jew is not either. The only thing Jews have in common is their torah, that is it and its not historical. My gosh , most of Jacobs boys married Canaanite women , if you believe the Bible? Yea.

 

[Penelope]

Ellison, Zuckerberg, Page, Brin, Icahn, is just an example of billionaires who are not jews, they are atheist, and their grandparents never set foot in Israel, but most came from Russia, Ukraine, and European.

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

I'm having a difficult time relating this to what I said.

This is not a war!

A war is between army vs army; navy vs navy; not occupational force vs humanitarian aid vessel or people fishing.

The blockade is collective punishment and that is a crime against humanity.

(COMMENT)

The San Remo Manual applies to "Armed Conflicts." War is not really a legal term. It is either a International Armed Conflict (IAC) or a Non-international Armed Conflict (NIAC).

It doesn't matter whether you call it a war, or a walk in the park. The San Remo Manual still applies. Warfare is different again; being that there are different kinds of war. Don't get involved in that.

International humanitarian law distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:

· international armed conflicts, (IAC) --- opposing two or more States, and

· non-international armed conflicts, (NIAC) --- between governmental forces and nongovernmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Art. 1 of Additional Protocol II.
​

Legally speaking, no other type of armed conflict exists. It is nevertheless important to underline that a situation can evolve from one type of armed conflict to another, depending
on the facts prevailing at a certain moment.
SOURCE: How is the term "Armed Conflict" defined in international humanitarian law? 17-03-2008
​

This is the importance of remembering that the Arab Palestinians invoked continuous conflict in February 1948, the armed conflict 1964/68, declaring Jihad in 1988, and the much more recent Jihad threat in 2012.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Boston1]

Regardless of all the bluff and bluster the pali mindset in Gaza is "where's my hand out"

VS
The pali mindset in Israel which is more like, "thank all the gods I don't live anywhere else".

See
For Palestinian citizens of Israel, this place is home

End the blockade and they won't need handouts.

You deliberately destroy their economy, then complain they need handouts.

You are really sick in the head!

Your funny. Gaza is free to chose its own path. And this is the path they chose.

This is a perfect example of a pro terrorist refusing to take responsibility.

The facts are extremely clear. Even if you don't want to admit them. Terrorists brought this all on themselves.

The restrictions and embargo are 100% a response to the years of terrorist activities and whatever condition the terrorists find themselves in its 100% because of their refusal act like civilized people.

 

[Shusha]

For every 2 Jews coming to Israel, there are 3 Jews going to live somewhere else.

And that is definitely the consequence of Israel's actions.

Blatant lie.

Some 15,900 Israelis left Israel for over a year in 2012, but about 13,500 Israeli expats returned — for a net loss of 2,400 citizens, compared to an average of nearly 10,000 per year between 1986 and 2008. In fact, according to border control officials, approximately a quarter of those who emigrated in 2012 and remained abroad for over a year have since returned as well.
This net loss of 2,400 Israeli citizens in 2012 does not include figures for aliya, or Jewish immigration and naturalization, which contributed another 18,000 new citizens in 2012. In other words, through migration alone, Israel gained over 15,000 citizen-residents that year.

 

[RoccoR]

Penelope, et al,

Yes, this is very true. An allied blockade cannot interfere with "innocent traffic" to neutral ports.

• A blockade must not bar access to the ports and coasts of neutral States.​

They can't even fish without being shot at.

(COMMENT)

The Gaza Strip is not now, and has not been, a neutral port since 16 February 1948, and reaffirmed in by Mr Khalid Mishaal, Chief of the Political Bureau, Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas), at a conference in Beirut, on 28-29 November 2012.

So, that truth does not advance your cause or position.

On the matter of shooting at fisherman, the that is pure ignorance.

Hague Convention (IX)
Article 6 of the 1907 Hague Convention (IX) provides: “If the military situation permits, the commander of the attacking naval force, before commencing the bombardment, must do his utmost to warn the authorities.”

Additional Protocol I
Article 57(2)(c) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides that, with respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken: “Effective advance warning shall be given of attacks which may affect the civilian population, unless circumstances do not permit.”

Palestinian Propaganda news crews periodically pay small craft fishermen to push the boundary of the blockade. This is done purposely so that the News Crew may get video footage of the Israel intercept firing warning shots across the bow.

As part of the “Rules of Engagement” (ROE) that have been practiced by many nations and states involved in interdiction operations, the use of force is allowed as a last resort. Generally entails preliminarily that a warning issued (verbal and Radio) that force will be used, and if not heeded, is then followed by warning shots (shots across the bow), which if also not heeded, is followed by disabling shots (usually targeting engines).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

Gaza is an occupied territory, full stop. It is not a state at war with Israel. Israel controls its borders, air space and territorial sea, and collects its taxes.

 

[Shusha]

RoccoR ,

Would you think that the ability to commit an attack on the sovereign soil of Israel would indicate that Gaza is not actually under "effective control" and therefore there is no occupation of Gaza?

 

[MJB12741]

Gaza is an occupied territory, full stop. It is not a state at war with Israel. Israel controls its borders, air space and territorial sea, and collects its taxes.

Right on! And Israel must end the occupation by finding some incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous roots.