Abstinence 'is not realistic,' Palin's daughter says

[Chris]

Embryos shouldn't be frozen in the first place, nimrod.

You didn't answer my question.

Should frozen embryos be forcibly implanted in women?

 

[AllieBaba]

No, because embryos shouldn't be frozen, nimrod.

Wouldn't be an issue if you and your ilk hadn't legalized abortion, and decided it was A-OK to make and destroy babies at will to experiment on.

 

[Agnapostate]

Not quite the same. One loses a child but can have another, one can never have a child.

That's not necessarily the case, because vasectomies can be reversed.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Well, the thing is, women that have abortions aren't saying they don't want children...they are just saying they aren't ready.

then why did, the majority of them anyhow,have unprotected sex?if your not ready you would take the RESPONSIBILITY to use some form of birth control if you must screw.....

 

[LiveUninhibited]

What an amusing and meandering thread.

That is the primary reason we have abortion, guys that won't man up and take responsibility.

Primary reason... not so sure. The primary reason would be people don't see the fetus as a person. It's not like everybody who gets an abortion thinks they're killing somebody for their own convenience. My guess would be most of them don't. It's hard to have a debate about abortion when one side thinks they're talking about choice and the other side think it's about life. The debate should be about whether it's a "person" deserving protection.

robert...we are not discussing a thing or an it as duckie put it..but a child who is the most innocent of all involved...get over it...control your damned sperm...simple as that...

There is no consensus on whether it is a "child" or not... If there was, there would be no abortion debate.

o hell no....if you arent willing to practice safe sex and birth control..then you are just simply too ******* stupid for skin...are you really telling me...men cant control what they do with them sperm...are you that ******* weak?

no weaker than the woman who can't keep her legs together

okay duckie...do you ....or any of you...abs, andy...can i call you andy? or bobby ...do yall have middle names...we in the south like two names...i digress...
or any of you simply admitting when any woman spreads her legs....you cannot resist?

It's understandable given that your body tries to convince you that this one act is the end-all-be-all of life, and for good reason evolutionarily. It takes quite a bit to override that unless you have a low sex drive, which I can only be envious of sometimes.
But this isn't really about whether one or a few men personally can control themselves. We just know that many people don't. The Palin daughter may personally have screwed up, but I am glad she sees the fact that abstinence education is unlikely to be effective policy.

sex with a condom is awful...all women should be forced to take the pill.

Yeah but the pill doesn't protect against STDs. I'll tell my kids to use a condom until their wedding day. Give them something to be excited about on that day, lol. After I had sex without one I was unwilling to have sex with one. I literally would say no to sex before having sex with a condom.

That means that up to 15% of the time, they fail.....

Not quite. I'd look at perfect-use rates (98%), which means pregnancy over the course of a year. Typical use rates includes people who use condoms inconsistently as well as people who use condoms improperly (reuse = bad).

This thread makes me wonder if there are any virgins on here. Anyone? Maybe I should start a new thread. Seems a little personal, though.

Ask Sunni Man to start a 72 virgins thread. It's a big bennie for suicide bombers. I just wonder who in their right mind wants to cause a woman pain 72 times to get to heaven?

Geez there are easier ways to get 72 virgins, like joining a fraternity. Sure you'll have to endure being humiliated for awhile, but then there will be parties filled with debauchery that you will claim not to remember. This reminds me that it’s kind of odd that a devout Muslim wants to live an afterlife like that. My girl was a virgin till she was 23, and met me. There's nothing wrong with being a virgin until you meet who you want to be with. Makes life simpler, if duller, in the meantime.

Maybe you're bi, Amanda. I don't know. I considered myself bi at your age.

I didn't *want* to tell you, I thought you would understand (maybe) and have some insight (hopefully). I thought you might alleviate my guilt. I really, really don't think I'm bi. I think I do stupid things when I drink too much, I think we can both agree on that.

Why are you interested in lesbian sex?
I suggest watching some movies. Maybe it just turns you on and you and your boyfriend can watch some and make nice vanilla heterosexual sex.

No... it doesn't turn me on... I don't think... er... maybe.
I was going to do this between just us but since you bring it up and I don't give a ****...
I have made out with a few girls and a few times did um... a little more.
I like the way girls kiss and touch me. But I don't know it's just wrong. I don't know why but I feel so dirty for even doing it beside enjoying it. I was hoping we would talk about it and you could tell me why you think it's ok and I could make some sense of it and rationalize it so I didn't feel the way I do. More than just making out I like boys better. I like the power and strength of a man, I don't know hpow to describe it, it just mke sme breathless. But therewas something about the gentleness of girls that I can't get out of my mind. I don't think it's natural or right and it makes me feel a little sick at the same time but I wish boys could be... I dunno just more like girls with me at first.
I like the way boys smell. Girls semms I don't know artificial to me, cos maybe I know the work they put in but I know how boys are they just ARE so it's like all so real.
I dunno does any of this make sense? It doen't to me.

Based upon how bisexuality has been treated in many pre/non-Christian societies, my guess is most people have a natural inclination towards bisexuality and culture filters it out these days. Though I consider myself completely straight. Point is I really don’t think it’s something people should be ashamed of. There’s nothing wrong with two hot girls kissing. In fact, I think there’s something very right about it. As for two guys kissing, that doesn’t turn me on, but I like seeing people happy.

In more seriousness what can be wrong about two people getting together, having some fun, and not hurting anybody? Geez with lesbian sex you can’t even make a baby accidently. Harder to get STDs too.

I love men. I find a number of them attractive. If I wasn't married, I might consider being with a man. But it's just not in my cards.

What if your partner was into threesomes?.. My girl isn't bi, and neither am I, or else I might be into that, lol. Sexually I came to the conclusion that no woman could do it all for me physically, so I’d either have to find a bi girl or find a girl whose personality I cannot live without. I found the latter and I’m glad for it and I haven't strayed (been together 2 years). I did have a female friend who had a successful guy-girl-girl relationship for at least a few years.

I really can't imagine why people feel the need to question her age. She's as old as she says she is; I don't know why two separate threads were started about that topic.

Because many people don't think that a good looking woman can be both good looking and intelligent.

I know many counterexamples. One of which I'm with and several of which are her friends. Medical and pharmacy student girls are often hot, for example.

I find it laughable that you guys are ready to shit yourself over the pearls of wisdom dropping from the lips of an 18 year old.

What buffoonery.

Why do you assume an 18-year-old has nothing useful to say? I was a better writer when I was 18, after all, as I did it constantly.

Abstinence makes the heart grow fonder

Not true at all for me. If I’m interested in the girl, and she has a legit reason for waiting (like being a virgin, not being on birth control, doesn’t trust me yet, etc.), I’ll wait. If I only want sex, I won’t wait too long. That’s all there is to it. Sad part is there is no easy way to tell which it is unless he stops waiting. The "thrill of the chase" is not a basis for a lasting relationship and frankly I resented girls who played games.

News flash. Be careful who you marry, wait until you're married to have sex, and face the fact that once you are married, hers become yours, regardless of whether or not they really are.

If you have a problem with that, then hell yeah, get a paternity test for every kid she has while she's with you. Sounds like a great relationship.

Sounds pretty dull - then again the alternative might not be exciting in a good way. All things in moderation.

Marriage does not prevent infidelity - at least half of people cheat - and relationships need not be about kids.

 

[KittenKoder]

No, because embryos shouldn't be frozen, nimrod.

Wouldn't be an issue if you and your ilk hadn't legalized abortion, and decided it was A-OK to make and destroy babies at will to experiment on.

I agree with that part ... but only that part. There are still more reasons to legalize abortion than not. The problem is this, you are taken away the god given right to choose, if it is a sinful act then let them choose it and answer to whatever god is real when they die, but to make it illegal (aside from the real world consequences) you will have to answer to taking away that god given right of free will. Even in your own religion, we are SUPPOSE to make our OWN mistakes, it doesn't mean we will all be perfect all the time, it means that we will answer for out actions and not those forced on us, we will also be rewarded for our own actions and not those forced on us. If those who get abortions are truly evil people then shouldn't they be allowed to commit the sin and be punished? Otherwise you are taking on the punishment and allowing them off the hook.

 

[KittenKoder]

The problem with teaching abstinence instead of the rest of sex ed is only in the schools. Most teens will do it anyway and just by telling them it's taboo will make them more eager to try it. I love not having sex anymore, I think it's great, but that's just me. I can never expect everyone else to stop, especially if I tell them to (it's their right). However everyone should know the possible consequences and precautions, but without using the scare tactics many do use. Just information, thus they can make an informed choice in the matter. But once someone becomes an adult, it's their choice and all we can do is hope they learned it already.

 

[Skull Pilot]

nah...they'd rather punish the harlots.

And here it is folks...the reason this country is going down the shitter.

people like Jillian actually believe that living with the consequences of your actions is punishment.

After all there should be absolutely no repercussions for any behavior whatsoever. No one is responsible for anything because actually holding someone accountable is tantamount to cruel and unusual punishment.

Pathetic.

PS the little praying emoticon was wrongly used as i am an atheist. One does not need god to see that holding people accountable for their actions is a good thing and not punishment.

If a woman is pregnant whatever she does is dealing with the consequences of her behavior.

I'm still aghast that you didn't think having a vasectomy was any of your wife's business.

It was none of her business. I told her i was doing it and that she had absolutely no say in the matter. I didn't want any more children.

And again, if she wanted, she could have not told me she was pregnant and had an abortion and i would never have been notified. Would you be aghast at that? it happens a lot more than a guy getting a vasectomy without his wife's knowledge.

 

[Skull Pilot]

nah...they'd rather punish the harlots.

And here it is folks...the reason this country is going down the shitter.

people like Jillian actually believe that living with the consequences of your actions is punishment.

After all there should be absolutely no repercussions for any behavior whatsoever. No one is responsible for anything because actually holding someone accountable is tantamount to cruel and unusual punishment.

Pathetic.

PS the little praying emoticon was wrongly used as i am an atheist. One does not need god to see that holding people accountable for their actions is a good thing and not punishment.

do other people get to hold you accountable for your personal actions?

Do other people foot the bill for the consequences of your personal actions?

 

[Anguille]

This is exactly true. I am a single mom, and I have great kids, but there is no question that it puts my kids more at risk to have a (mostly) absent father who is not very involved in their lives.

It is a myth that a single parent can do as well at the job as two parents could, and I'm saying that as someone who does the job daily. It is MUCH, MUCH easier when there are two parents.

Talk about victimology.

 

[strollingbones]

And here it is folks...the reason this country is going down the shitter.

people like Jillian actually believe that living with the consequences of your actions is punishment.

After all there should be absolutely no repercussions for any behavior whatsoever. No one is responsible for anything because actually holding someone accountable is tantamount to cruel and unusual punishment.

Pathetic.

PS the little praying emoticon was wrongly used as i am an atheist. One does not need god to see that holding people accountable for their actions is a good thing and not punishment.

If a woman is pregnant whatever she does is dealing with the consequences of her behavior.

I'm still aghast that you didn't think having a vasectomy was any of your wife's business.

It was none of her business. I told her i was doing it and that she had absolutely no say in the matter. I didn't want any more children.And again, if she wanted, she could have not told me she was pregnant and had an abortion and i would never have been notified. Would you be aghast at that? it happens a lot more than a guy getting a vasectomy without his wife's knowledge.

hubby did the same thing....thought it was a big hoot to do it the friday before mother's day...i wanted more kids..he did not...simple as this...i refused to have my tubes tied...he had a vas...was he a dick for doing it....o hell yes....but he didnt want to stop me from having kids..he just didnt want any more..once he made that decision it was up to me...stay or go....i stayed....lets see today is his 55th birthday...last time i tossed it in his face...that i wanted more kids...maybe a week ago...does he care...no...i no more had the right to force him to have more kids than he had the right to force me to have or not have kids....we all own our decisions

 

[Anguille]

Only if you make sure the boys involved get their share of the consequences. That is the primary reason we have abortion, guys that won't man up and take responsibility.

nah...they'd rather punish the harlots.

And here it is folks...the reason this country is going down the shitter.

people like Jillian actually believe that living with the consequences of your actions is punishment.

After all there should be absolutely no repercussions for any behavior whatsoever. No one is responsible for anything because actually holding someone accountable is tantamount to cruel and unusual punishment.

Pathetic.

PS the little praying emoticon was wrongly used as i am an atheist. One does not need god to see that holding people accountable for their actions is a good thing and not punishment.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day and so is jillian in this case. Only she's not saying children are punishment, you are.

from your previous post:

"Maybe if we let these young adults have to live with the consequences of their actions, you know no free abortions, no safe haven laws, etc.

If you get pregnant, YOU pay for your own ******* mistake. Then I'll bet you teen pregnancy rates will fall faster than the stock market ."

What an perfectly asinine statement!! What do we tell these kids as they get older? "The reason you were born was to teach your misbehaving teen mother about sex education? Now go live with that and be sure to make the mother who didn't want you in the first place miserable. That's your job. And another thing, do what she did and we'll punish you the same way."

 

[Skull Pilot]

nah...they'd rather punish the harlots.

And here it is folks...the reason this country is going down the shitter.

people like Jillian actually believe that living with the consequences of your actions is punishment.

After all there should be absolutely no repercussions for any behavior whatsoever. No one is responsible for anything because actually holding someone accountable is tantamount to cruel and unusual punishment.

Pathetic.

PS the little praying emoticon was wrongly used as i am an atheist. One does not need god to see that holding people accountable for their actions is a good thing and not punishment.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day and so is jillian in this case. Only she's not saying children are punishment, you are.

from your previous post:

"Maybe if we let these young adults have to live with the consequences of their actions, you know no free abortions, no safe haven laws, etc.

If you get pregnant, YOU pay for your own ******* mistake. Then I'll bet you teen pregnancy rates will fall faster than the stock market ."

What an perfectly asinine statement!! What do we tell these kids as they get older? "The reason you were born was to teach your misbehaving teen mother about sex education? Now go live with that and be sure to make the mother who didn't want you in the first place miserable. That's your job. And another thing, do what she did and we'll punish you the same way."

You think living with the consequences of your actions is punishment?

thank you for proving my point.

And who cares what "these kids" are told when they get older? When you boil it down the "reason" any of us were, are or will be born is because two people had intercourse.

And please tell me where I said a child was a punishment. What I said was:

If you get pregnant, YOU pay for your own ******* mistake. Then I'll bet you teen pregnancy rates will fall faster than the stock market

How in your mind does that equal saying a child is punishment?

 

[Anguille]

The consequences remain the same since both means result in an end of a lack of childbirth without the informed knowledge of one's partner.

The consequences are not the same. In the case of an abortion the possibility of future children still exists. With a vasectomy, it does not. If one is concealed, an abortion or a vasectomy, it certainly may not be good for the marriage but if the purpose of the marriage was to give birth to children, that has not come to a dead end after an abortion.

Truthfullness in a marriage is a standard agreed upon by the married coupple and it is not the responsability of a doctor performing either an abortion or a vasectomy or tubal ligation or whatever medical procedure to enforce whatever standard the couple has agreed to. Nor is it the doctor's right to be so presumtious as to do that. Unless a person has made a living will or guardianship has been awarded to another person, we and we alone make all the decisions regarding our own bodies.
Any doctor requiring signed aggreements from spouses is over stepping his/her authority.

 

[Anguille]

You're an idiot. I've been in those shoes, and I've been with many women when they've been at the abortion clinics.

Women get abortions because they want the baby dead. Period. End of story. That's why they choose abortion over adoption.

They are saying they don't want a baby when they choose abortion. Women who give birth to a baby and then give it away even if they have the means to care for it are saying they don't care if their baby dies in the care of a stranger. I can only understand a woman giving her child up for adoption if she was unable to get an abortion (religious reasons don't really count, religion is a choice) and then because she was truly in dire straits, found a better home for the child than she was able to give to it herself.

 

[Anguille]

No, because embryos shouldn't be frozen, nimrod.

Wouldn't be an issue if you and your ilk hadn't legalized abortion, and decided it was A-OK to make and destroy babies at will to experiment on.

So you're saying it's okay to defrost all those frozen embryos that shouldn't exist anyway?

 

[Anguille]

Not quite the same. One loses a child but can have another, one can never have a child.

That's not necessarily the case, because vasectomies can be reversed.

That's not guaranteed and doctors do not recommend vasectomy as temporary birth control.

 

[Agnapostate]

Nor is dilation and evacuation recommended as a form of temporary birth control, for instance.

 

[Anguille]

If a woman is pregnant whatever she does is dealing with the consequences of her behavior.

I'm still aghast that you didn't think having a vasectomy was any of your wife's business.

It was none of her business. I told her i was doing it and that she had absolutely no say in the matter. I didn't want any more children.And again, if she wanted, she could have not told me she was pregnant and had an abortion and i would never have been notified. Would you be aghast at that? it happens a lot more than a guy getting a vasectomy without his wife's knowledge.

hubby did the same thing....thought it was a big hoot to do it the friday before mother's day...i wanted more kids..he did not...simple as this...i refused to have my tubes tied...he had a vas...was he a dick for doing it....o hell yes....but he didnt want to stop me from having kids..he just didnt want any more..once he made that decision it was up to me...stay or go....i stayed....lets see today is his 55th birthday...last time i tossed it in his face...that i wanted more kids...maybe a week ago...does he care...no...i no more had the right to force him to have more kids than he had the right to force me to have or not have kids....we all own our decisions

Great post! He took a chance on losing you. But he did the responsible thing in the end. Though he should have told you beforehand, I think.
Of course you could have exerted your right to have kids by artificial insemination or you could have flung a fling in his face.

Kids come and go, but a marriage can last a lifetime.

I think you and your man must be a hoot to hang around with.

 

[Anguille]

And here it is folks...the reason this country is going down the shitter.

people like Jillian actually believe that living with the consequences of your actions is punishment.

After all there should be absolutely no repercussions for any behavior whatsoever. No one is responsible for anything because actually holding someone accountable is tantamount to cruel and unusual punishment.

Pathetic.

PS the little praying emoticon was wrongly used as i am an atheist. One does not need god to see that holding people accountable for their actions is a good thing and not punishment.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day and so is jillian in this case. Only she's not saying children are punishment, you are.

from your previous post:

"Maybe if we let these young adults have to live with the consequences of their actions, you know no free abortions, no safe haven laws, etc.

If you get pregnant, YOU pay for your own ******* mistake. Then I'll bet you teen pregnancy rates will fall faster than the stock market ."

What an perfectly asinine statement!! What do we tell these kids as they get older? "The reason you were born was to teach your misbehaving teen mother about sex education? Now go live with that and be sure to make the mother who didn't want you in the first place miserable. That's your job. And another thing, do what she did and we'll punish you the same way."

You think living with the consequences of your actions is punishment?

thank you for proving my point.

And who cares what "these kids" are told when they get older? When you boil it down the "reason" any of us were, are or will be born is because two people had intercourse.

And please tell me where I said a child was a punishment. What I said was:

If you get pregnant, YOU pay for your own ******* mistake. Then I'll bet you teen pregnancy rates will fall faster than the stock market

How in your mind does that equal saying a child is punishment?

Not in my mind, but apparently in yours. "******* mistake". Is that what you would name your kid?