HeyNorm
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Damn, we cut the cord at birth
About half of America's new college graduates are working in high school-level jobs like food service and retail: report
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The Sage of Main Street
Platinum Member
White Hunters in the Wall Street Jungle
Paper tigers. Even if they are real tigers, we got rifles that will take them down. The old-school Texas Rangers used .50 caliber Sharps rifles. Those could take down a buffalo, which is much bigger and stronger than a tiger.
Nope. Not us. They had NO viable options other than get the degree. No hanging around, no part time work crap. No military, no enteri g the workforce at 18 which is stupid and ignorant. Once they got their 4. Better yet 6 year degree in hand then it's up to them.
The Sage of Main Street
Platinum Member
That's As Bad a Policy As the VA Getting Them on a College Team
The Sage of Main Street
Platinum Member
We're Graduating Walk-Ons
It should never have been a choice. They have to be chosen, as they are for college football team.
The Sage of Main Street
Platinum Member
Even Bill Gates, Who Had Perfect SATs, Uses the Retarded "Irregardless"
It's not obvious on the Netrix, which parrots the Low-IQ grammar of college graduates, believing that's the way "educated" people talk.
The Sage of Main Street
Platinum Member
Unlike the Military, College Is for Teenagers Who Are Afraid to Grow Up
The sadistic employers desire permanently immature adults looking for a father-figure, which the bosses become for these pathetic graduates.
Hard to get a medical degree in medical without college. My granddaughter, now age 28, is a pharmacist. Was she supposed to get that job without a degree? Her husband is an electrical engineer
They're making nice money. They aren't having kids. Nice big house. Nice vehicles. Living the american dream. None of this happens without degrees. There's nothing missing in their lives.
Unkotare
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You just said there is.
Nope. They have all that they want. And it's only going to get more lucrative. That's as american as it gets.
Unkotare
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Yeah, yeah we know you're completely intimidated by education, comrade.
Unkotare
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"American" is all about money?
Big time. Of course it is. Look who we elect. Rich people. They want control. Easy to see.
Unkotare
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You don't understand America.
More correct might have been "read"; which will follow in a minute with some excerpts and links/URLs.Oh, you've "heard."
Consider that "heard" reference to having been a single parent raising two boys and dealing with their school work during the 1990s - early 2000s. Quite often had to reteach material their teachers botched and also teach~cover material the schools didn't do anymore.
Past couple decades now as grandparent and things haven't improved with school for the grandkids. Still many gaps and short comings as in past few decades. Mention the term civics to teens and young adults nowadays and most will reply "What's civics?"
So the following is excerpts from an article in a book I came across and read in past couple years. Author is the late Robert A. Heinlein and the volume was a collection of his short fiction and non-fiction articles. Collected from the late 1930s up to 1980.
"Expanded Universe" - Expanded Universe (book) - Wikipedia
Robert A. Heinlein - Robert A. Heinlein - Wikipedia
......
THE HAPPY DAYS AHEAD (Part one)
...Span of time – the Decline of Education (c.1980)
My father never went to college. He attended high school [c. 1890s] in a southern Missouri town of 3000+, then attended a private 2 – year academy roughly analogous to junior college today, except that it was very small – had to be; a day school, and Missouri had no paved roads.
Here are some of the subjects he studied in backcountry 19th century schools: Latin, Greek, physics (natural philosophy), French, geometry, algebra, 1st year calculus, bookkeeping, American history, World history, chemistry, geology.
Twenty – eight years later [early 1920s] I attended a much larger city high school. I took Latin and French but Greek was not offered; I took physics and chemistry but geology was not offered. I took geometry and algebra but calculus was not offered. I took American history and ancient history but no comprehensive history course was offered. Anyone wishing comprehensive history could take (each a one – year 5 – hrs/wk course) ancient history, medieval history, modern European history, and American history – and note that the available courses ignored all of Asia, all of South America, all of Africa except ancient Egypt, and touched Canada and Mexico solely with respect to our wars with each.
I've had to repair what I missed with a combination of travel and private study.. . and must admit that I did not tackle Chinese history in depth until this year. My training in history was so spotty that it was not until I went to the Naval Academy and saw captured battle flags that I learned that we fought Korea some eighty years earlier than the mess we are still trying to clean up.
From my father's textbook I know that the world history course he studied was not detailed (how could it be?) but at least it treated the world as round; it did not ignore three fourths of our planet.
Now, let me report what I've seen, heard, looked up, clipped out of newspapers and elsewhere, and read in books such as WHY JOHNNY CAN'T READ, BLACKBOARD JUNGLE, etc.
Colorado Springs, our home until 1965, in 1960 offered first – year Latin – but that was all. Caesar, Cicero, Virgil – Who dat?
Latin is not taught in the high schools of Santa Cruz County. From oral reports and clippings I note that it is not taught in most high schools across the country.
"Why this emphasis on Latin? It's a dead language!" Brother, as with jazz, in the words of a great artist, "If you have to ask, you ain't never goin' to find out." A person who knows only his own language does not even know his own language; epistemology necessitates knowing more than one human language. Besides that sharp edge, Latin is a giant help in all the sciences – and so is Greek, so I studied it on my own.
...
I mentioned elsewhere the straight – A student on a scholarship who did not know the relations between weeks, months, and years. This is not uncommon; high school and college students in this country usually can't do simple arithmetic without using a pocket calculator. (I mean with pencil on paper; to ask one to do mental arithmetic causes jaws to drop – say 17 x 34, done mentally. How? Answer: Chuck away the 34 but remember it. (10 + 7)2 is 289, obviously. Double it: 2(300 – 11), or 578.
But my father would have given the answer at once, as his country grammar school a century ago required perfect memorizing of multiplication tables through 20 x 20 = 400 ... so his ciphering the above would have been merely the doubling of a number already known (289) – or 578. He might have done it again by another route to check it: (68 + 510) – but his hesitation would not have been noticeable.
Was my father a mathematician? Not at all. Am I? Hell, no! This is the simplest sort of kitchen arithmetic, the sort that high school students can no longer do – at least in Santa Cruz.
If they don't study math and languages and history, what do they study? (Nota Bene! Any student can learn the truly tough subjects on almost any campus if he/she wishes – the professors and books and labs are there. But the student must want to.)
...............
Expanded Universe – Robert Anson Heinlein
Robert Anson Heinlein: Expanded Universe
expanded-universe.bib.bz
Unkotare
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Yes it is.
Part Two
But if that student does not want to learn anything requiring brain sweat, most U.S. campuses will baby-sit him 4 years, then hand him a baccalaureate for not burning down the library. That girl in Colorado Springs who studied Latin – but no classic Latin – got a "general" bachelor's degree at the University of Colorado in 1964. I attended her graduation, asked what she had majored in. No major. What had she studied? Nothing, really, it turned out – and, sure enough, she's as ignorant today as she was in high school.
Santa Cruz has an enormous, lavish 2 – year college and also a campus of the University of California, degree granting through Ph.D. level. But, since math and languages and history are not required, let's see how they fill the other classrooms.
The University of California (all campuses) is classed as a "tough school." It is paralleled by a State University system with lower entrance requirements, and this is paralleled by local junior colleges (never called "junior") that accept any warm body.
UCSC was planned as an elite school ("The Oxford of the West") but falling enrollment made it necessary to accept any applicant who can qualify for the University of California as a whole; therefore UCSC now typifies the "statewide campus." Entrance can be by examination (usually College Entrance Examination Boards) or by high school certificate. Either way, admission requires a certain spread – 2 years of math, 2 of a modern language, 1 of a natural science, 1 of American history, 3 years of English – and a level of performance that translates as B+. There are two additional requirements: English composition, and American History and Institutions. The second requirement acknowledges that some high schools do not require American history; UCSC permits an otherwise acceptable applicant to make up this deficiency (with credit) after admission.
The first additional requirement, English composition, can be met by written examination such as CEEB, or by transferring college credits considered equivalent, or, lacking either of these, by passing an examination given at UCSC at the start of each quarter.
The above looks middlin' good on the surface. College requirements from high school have been watered down somewhat (or more than somewhat) but that B+ average as a requirement looks good if high schools are teaching what they taught two and three generations ago. The rules limit admission to the upper 8% of California high school graduates (out – of state applicants must meet slightly higher requirements).
8% – So 92% fall by the wayside. These 8% are the intellectual elite of young adults of the biggest, richest, and most lavishly educated state in the Union.
Those examinations for the English – composition requirement: How can anyone fail who has had 3 years of high school English and averages B+ across the board?
If he fails to qualify, he may enter but must take at once (no credit) "Subject A" – better known as "Bonehead English."
"Bonehead English" must be repeated, if necessary, until passed. To be forced to take this no – credit course does not mean that the victim splits an occasional infinitive, sometimes has a dangling modifier, or a failure in agreement or case – he can even get away with such atrocities as " – like I say – ."
It means that he has reached the Groves of Academe unable to express himself by writing in the English language.
It means that his command of his native language does not equal that of a 12 – year – old country grammar school graduate of ninety years ago. It means that he verges on subliterate but that his record is such in other ways that the University will tutor him (no credit and for a fee) rather than turn him away.
......
So here we have the cream of California's young adults; each has learned to read and write and spell and has been taught the basics of English during eight years in grammar school, and has polished this by not less than three years of English in high school – and also has had at least two years of a second language, a drill that vastly illuminates the subject of grammar even though grasp of the second language may be imperfect.
It stands to reason that very few applicants need "Bonehead English." Yes?
No!
I have just checked. The new class at UCSC is "about 50%" in Bonehead English – and this is normal – normal right across California – and California is no worse than most of the states. 8% off the top – Half of this elite 8% must take "Bonehead English."
The prosecution rests.
This scandal must be charged to grammar and high school teachers ... many of whom are not themselves literate (I know!) – but are not personally to blame, as we are now in the second generation of illiteracy. The blind lead the blind.
....
I TELL YOU THREE TIMES ... I TELL YOU THREE TIMES ... I TELL YOU THREE TIMES: A student who wants an education can get one at UCSC in a number of very difficult subjects, plus a broad general education.
I ask you never to forget this while we see how one can slide through, never do any real work, never learn anything solid, and still receive a bachelor of arts degree from the prestigious University of California. Although I offer examples from the campus I know best, I assume conclusively that this can be done throughout the state, as it is one statewide university operating under one set of rules.
Some guidelines apply to any campus: Don't pick a medical school or an engineering school. Don't pick a natural science that requires difficult mathematics. (A subject called "science" that does not require difficult mathematics usually is "science" in the sense that "Christian Science" is science – in its widest sense "science" simply means "knowledge" and anyone may use the word for any subject... but shun the subjects that can't be understood without mind – stretching math.)
Try to get a stupid but good – natured adviser. There are plenty around, especially in subjects in which to get a no – sweat degree; Sturgeon's Law* applies to professors as well as to other categories.
For a bachelor's degree:
[There follows several paragraphs of semi-specific course range requirements]
....
The name of this game is to plan a course involving minimum effort and minimum learning while "earning" a degree under the rules of the nation's largest and most prestigious state university.
To take care of "breadth" and also the American history your high school did not require I recommend Science and Pressure Politics, The Phenomenon of Man, and American Country Music. These three get you home free without learning any math, history, or language that you did not already know .. . and without sullying your mind with science.
You must pick a major.. . but it must not involve mathematics, history, or actually being able to read a second language. This rules out all natural sciences (this campus's greatest strength).
Anthropology? You would learn something in spite of yourself; you'd get interested. Art? Better not major in it without major talent. Economics can be difficult, but also and worse, you may incline toward the Chicago or the Austrian school and not realize it until your (Keynesian or Marxist) instructor has failed you with a big black mark against your name. Philosophy? Easy and lots of fun and absolutely guaranteed not to teach you anything while loosening up your mind. In more than twenty – five centuries of effort not one basic problem of philosophy has ever been solved .. . but the efforts to solve them are most amusing. The same goes for comparative religion as a major: You won't actually learn anything you can sink your teeth into but you'll be vastly entertained – if the Human Comedy entertains you. It does me.
..........
expanded-universe.bib.bz
*Sturgeon's Law - Sturgeon's law (or Sturgeon's revelation) is an adage stating "ninety percent of everything is crap". It was coined by Theodore Sturgeon, an American science fiction author and critic, and was inspired by his observation that, while science fiction was often derided for its low quality by critics, most work in other fields was low-quality too, and so science fiction was thus no different.
...
en.wikipedia.org
THE HAPPY DAYS AHEAD
....But if that student does not want to learn anything requiring brain sweat, most U.S. campuses will baby-sit him 4 years, then hand him a baccalaureate for not burning down the library. That girl in Colorado Springs who studied Latin – but no classic Latin – got a "general" bachelor's degree at the University of Colorado in 1964. I attended her graduation, asked what she had majored in. No major. What had she studied? Nothing, really, it turned out – and, sure enough, she's as ignorant today as she was in high school.
Santa Cruz has an enormous, lavish 2 – year college and also a campus of the University of California, degree granting through Ph.D. level. But, since math and languages and history are not required, let's see how they fill the other classrooms.
The University of California (all campuses) is classed as a "tough school." It is paralleled by a State University system with lower entrance requirements, and this is paralleled by local junior colleges (never called "junior") that accept any warm body.
UCSC was planned as an elite school ("The Oxford of the West") but falling enrollment made it necessary to accept any applicant who can qualify for the University of California as a whole; therefore UCSC now typifies the "statewide campus." Entrance can be by examination (usually College Entrance Examination Boards) or by high school certificate. Either way, admission requires a certain spread – 2 years of math, 2 of a modern language, 1 of a natural science, 1 of American history, 3 years of English – and a level of performance that translates as B+. There are two additional requirements: English composition, and American History and Institutions. The second requirement acknowledges that some high schools do not require American history; UCSC permits an otherwise acceptable applicant to make up this deficiency (with credit) after admission.
The first additional requirement, English composition, can be met by written examination such as CEEB, or by transferring college credits considered equivalent, or, lacking either of these, by passing an examination given at UCSC at the start of each quarter.
The above looks middlin' good on the surface. College requirements from high school have been watered down somewhat (or more than somewhat) but that B+ average as a requirement looks good if high schools are teaching what they taught two and three generations ago. The rules limit admission to the upper 8% of California high school graduates (out – of state applicants must meet slightly higher requirements).
8% – So 92% fall by the wayside. These 8% are the intellectual elite of young adults of the biggest, richest, and most lavishly educated state in the Union.
Those examinations for the English – composition requirement: How can anyone fail who has had 3 years of high school English and averages B+ across the board?
If he fails to qualify, he may enter but must take at once (no credit) "Subject A" – better known as "Bonehead English."
"Bonehead English" must be repeated, if necessary, until passed. To be forced to take this no – credit course does not mean that the victim splits an occasional infinitive, sometimes has a dangling modifier, or a failure in agreement or case – he can even get away with such atrocities as " – like I say – ."
It means that he has reached the Groves of Academe unable to express himself by writing in the English language.
It means that his command of his native language does not equal that of a 12 – year – old country grammar school graduate of ninety years ago. It means that he verges on subliterate but that his record is such in other ways that the University will tutor him (no credit and for a fee) rather than turn him away.
......
So here we have the cream of California's young adults; each has learned to read and write and spell and has been taught the basics of English during eight years in grammar school, and has polished this by not less than three years of English in high school – and also has had at least two years of a second language, a drill that vastly illuminates the subject of grammar even though grasp of the second language may be imperfect.
It stands to reason that very few applicants need "Bonehead English." Yes?
No!
I have just checked. The new class at UCSC is "about 50%" in Bonehead English – and this is normal – normal right across California – and California is no worse than most of the states. 8% off the top – Half of this elite 8% must take "Bonehead English."
The prosecution rests.
This scandal must be charged to grammar and high school teachers ... many of whom are not themselves literate (I know!) – but are not personally to blame, as we are now in the second generation of illiteracy. The blind lead the blind.
....
I TELL YOU THREE TIMES ... I TELL YOU THREE TIMES ... I TELL YOU THREE TIMES: A student who wants an education can get one at UCSC in a number of very difficult subjects, plus a broad general education.
I ask you never to forget this while we see how one can slide through, never do any real work, never learn anything solid, and still receive a bachelor of arts degree from the prestigious University of California. Although I offer examples from the campus I know best, I assume conclusively that this can be done throughout the state, as it is one statewide university operating under one set of rules.
Some guidelines apply to any campus: Don't pick a medical school or an engineering school. Don't pick a natural science that requires difficult mathematics. (A subject called "science" that does not require difficult mathematics usually is "science" in the sense that "Christian Science" is science – in its widest sense "science" simply means "knowledge" and anyone may use the word for any subject... but shun the subjects that can't be understood without mind – stretching math.)
Try to get a stupid but good – natured adviser. There are plenty around, especially in subjects in which to get a no – sweat degree; Sturgeon's Law* applies to professors as well as to other categories.
For a bachelor's degree:
[There follows several paragraphs of semi-specific course range requirements]
....
The name of this game is to plan a course involving minimum effort and minimum learning while "earning" a degree under the rules of the nation's largest and most prestigious state university.
To take care of "breadth" and also the American history your high school did not require I recommend Science and Pressure Politics, The Phenomenon of Man, and American Country Music. These three get you home free without learning any math, history, or language that you did not already know .. . and without sullying your mind with science.
You must pick a major.. . but it must not involve mathematics, history, or actually being able to read a second language. This rules out all natural sciences (this campus's greatest strength).
Anthropology? You would learn something in spite of yourself; you'd get interested. Art? Better not major in it without major talent. Economics can be difficult, but also and worse, you may incline toward the Chicago or the Austrian school and not realize it until your (Keynesian or Marxist) instructor has failed you with a big black mark against your name. Philosophy? Easy and lots of fun and absolutely guaranteed not to teach you anything while loosening up your mind. In more than twenty – five centuries of effort not one basic problem of philosophy has ever been solved .. . but the efforts to solve them are most amusing. The same goes for comparative religion as a major: You won't actually learn anything you can sink your teeth into but you'll be vastly entertained – if the Human Comedy entertains you. It does me.
..........
* * * - Expanded Universe (Robert Anson Heinlein) | Read books online free without registration and downloading
Expanded Universe (Robert Anson Heinlein). Read books online free without registration and downloading
expanded-universe.bib.bz
*Sturgeon's Law - Sturgeon's law (or Sturgeon's revelation) is an adage stating "ninety percent of everything is crap". It was coined by Theodore Sturgeon, an American science fiction author and critic, and was inspired by his observation that, while science fiction was often derided for its low quality by critics, most work in other fields was low-quality too, and so science fiction was thus no different.
...
Sturgeon's law - Wikipedia
Unkotare
Diamond Member
- Aug 16, 2011
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2? Not thousands and thousands?
THE HAPPY DAYS AHEAD
Part Three...
I first started noticing the decline of education through mail from readers. I have saved mail from readers for forty years. Shortly after World War Two I noticed that letters from the youngest were not written but hand – printed. By the middle fifties deterioration in handwriting and in spelling became very noticeable. By today a letter from a youngster in grammar school or in high school is usually difficult to read and sometimes illegible – penmanship atrocious (pencilmanship – nine out often are in soft pencil, with well – smudged pages), spelling unique, grammar an arcane art.
Most youngsters have not been taught how to fold 81/2" x 11" paper for the two standard sizes of envelopes intended for that standard sheet.
Then such defects began to show up among college students. Apparently "Bonehead English" (taught everywhere today, so I hear) is not sufficient to repair the failure of grammar and high school teachers who themselves in most cases were not adequately taught.
I saw sharply this progressive deterioration because part of my mail comes from abroad, especially Canada, the United Kingdom, the Scandinavian countries, and Japan. A – letter from any part of the Commonwealth is invariably neat, legible, grammatical, correct in spelling, and polite. The same applies to letters from Scandinavian countries. (Teenagers of Copenhagen usually speak and write English better than most teenagers of Santa Cruz.) Letters from Japan are invariably neat – but the syntax is sometimes odd. I have one young correspondent in Tokyo who has been writing steadily these past four years. The handwriting in the first letter was almost stylebook perfect but I could hardly understand the phrasing; now, four years later, the handwriting looks the same but command of grammar, syntax, and rhetoric is excellent, with only an occasional odd choice in wording giving an exotic flavor.
Our public schools no longer give good value. We remain strong in science and engineering but even students in those subjects are handicapped by failures of our primary and secondary schools and by cutback in funding of research both public and private. Our great decline in education is alone enough to destroy this country ... but I offer no solutions because the only solutions I think would work are so drastic as to be incredible.
...
* * * - Expanded Universe (Robert Anson Heinlein) | Read books online free without registration and downloading
Expanded Universe (Robert Anson Heinlein). Read books online free without registration and downloading
expanded-universe.bib.bz
A reminder that the above was written and published in 1980. It's possible there may have been some improvements in some locales, but too many in majority remain in need of a fix.
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