Abortion Trade Off/Compromise

[martybegan]

Except the law says it is....

And if we had someone who said that he wanted to deny "contracted services" on the basis of race or religion, we wouldn't be having this conversation and you know it.

The law used to say a black person was 3/5ths a person.

I doubt he would want to provide a cake to Satanists either. He may even not want to provide one to "papists" for a confirmation.

 

[JoeB131]

The law used to say a black person was 3/5ths a person.

I doubt he would want to provide a cake to Satanists either. He may even not want to provide one to "papists" for a confirmation.

Well, that would be messed up. Of course, if he did the latter, then he wouldn't have an argument in court.

 

[martybegan]

Well, that would be messed up. Of course, if he did the latter, then he wouldn't have an argument in court.

If it was for an event he didn't think is moral he should have, due to free exercise.

 

[JoeB131]

If it was for an event he didn't think is moral he should have, due to free exercise.

So what you are saying by your logic, that we should only do business with members of our own faiths, as anyone can refuse service if they think it's immoral.

Oh, what a dark hole you go down.

Here's a simple solution... If you can't do your job due to moral considerations - QUIT! Just like the wage slaves have to.

 

[martybegan]

So what you are saying by your logic, that we should only do business with members of our own faiths, as anyone can refuse service if they think it's immoral.

Oh, what a dark hole you go down.

Here's a simple solution... If you can't do your job due to moral considerations - QUIT! Just like the wage slaves have to.

Nope. And owning your own business is different than working for someone else.

Lines can be drawn, you just want the line drawn to fuck over people you despise.

Working on getting 6 feet under so I can throw a little party?

 

[JoeB131]

Nope. And owning your own business is different than working for someone else.

No it isn't. If you are claiming your Right to hate is God Given, then it should apply to the wage slaves as well as the business owners.

Lines can be drawn, you just want the line drawn to fuck over people you despise.

Not at all. Just bake the fucking cake...

Working on getting 6 feet under so I can throw a little party?

Naw, I'll outlive you by years...

 

[NotfooledbyW]

NotfooledbyW said: The states that do not recognize a woman’s bodily autonomy and freedom to choose, and the right to prevent harm to herself, will eventually lose the right to ban abortions.

Not according to the USSC.

{ m14shvvtr #432 to nf #430 } Not according to the USSC.

{ nfbw #446 to shvvtr #432 } older white extremist Christian state lawmakers must eventually serve the incoming more tolerant, younger, racially diverse, less religious electorates that will overcome the current tyrannical majorities in abortion banning states It happened in Kansas.

Abortion bans are harming women and harming women by the government cannot be marketed successfully for Republicans when actual bans take hold.

IT was good politics for right wing extremism when wanting to ban abortion was a message that could not really be a reality.

Now women know who will cause them harm just for being a woman.

 

[M14 Shooter]

NotfooledbyW said: The states that do not recognize a woman’s bodily autonomy and freedom to choose, and the right to prevent harm to herself, will eventually lose the right to ban abortions.
{ m14shvvtr #432 to nf #430 } Not according to the USSC.
{ nfbw #446 to shvvtr #432 } older white extremist Christian state lawmakers....

Nothing here addresses what I said.
Try harder.

 

[martybegan]

No it isn't. If you are claiming your Right to hate is God Given, then it should apply to the wage slaves as well as the business owners.



Not at all. Just bake the fucking cake...



Naw, I'll outlive you by years...

It's very different.

Just go to another fucking baker.

Good luck, you old miserable atheist hack.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Abortion bans are minding a matter that is entirely our business.

{nfbw #450 to myrpls #87 } That business is keeping white Christian anti-thinkers to loyally and consistently vote against the “baby killer” Democrats

That worked before Dobbs but the anti-thinking base of the backward thinking MAGA white extremist Christian base of the Republican Party will not be there for atheists like you after two more national elections where Republicans keep on losing if they do not drop their anti baby killer politics

Nikki Haley is going to where thinking Americans are on abortion.

She said she is “unapologetically pro-life” because her husband was adopted and she “had trouble having both of my children.”

But, Haley added, “I don’t judge anyone for being pro-choice any more than I want them to judge me for being pro-life.”

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I'd support allowing abortion up to the 8th week - as a compromise. That's when brain activity starts.

Yes, scientifically, a newly fertilized egg has unique DNA, and therefore is a unique human being that is inside of the mother, and is not just one of the mother's parts. But never will everyone agree on that, so X number of weeks is a good compromise.

So is allowing states to decide.

This is why non-liberals are so disgusted with liberals. You were so happy when rioters were attacking police, courthouses, department stores, and small neighborhood businesses, calling the riots "mostly peaceful protests" while standing in front of burning buildings. But now you cheer a police officer shooting an unarmed woman because she is a Trump supporter. There is no justification for that shooting, but he will get away with it in the same spirit that white men in the south used to get away with lynchings.

{ nfbw #451 to rflops #450 #687 } I see you are a non-liberal in political opposition to Democrats who are BLM sympathetic voters, I see you are however “pro choice” for a woman to kill her own human gestating organism before the 9th week.

During that two week window from when a woman finds herself to be pregnant and what you say when “fetal brain activity begins” . . . . if she terminates her pregnancy within your timeframe, do you regard what she has done to be killing a baby?

 

[Seymour Flops]

{ nfbw #451 to rflops #450 #687 } I see you are a non-liberal in political opposition to Democrats who are BLM sympathetic voters, I see you are however “pro choice” for a woman to kill her own human gestating organism before the 9th week.

During that two week window from when a woman finds herself to be pregnant and what you say when “fetal brain activity begins” . . . . if she terminates her pregnancy within your timeframe, do you regard what she has done to be killing a baby?

Yes, I do regard it as killing a baby. Upon fertilization, there is a baby with unique DNA. If it were possible to convince everyone of that, I would be happy to see the practice banned except to save the life of the mother.

But we have a Republic so I'm not the dictator. Which is why I proposed a compromise.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Yes, I do regard it as killing a baby.

{ rflops #452 to nfbw #451 } Yes, I do regard it as killing a baby. Upon fertilization, there is a baby with unique DNA. If it were possible to convince everyone of that, I would be happy to see the practice banned except to save the life of the mother.

{ nfbw #453 to rflops #452 } In order to maintain workaday social cohesion and basic law and order in America, is “killing a baby” not a (secular) crime or not a (religious) sin when the baby is killed before it is born during your two week window that you support killing it?

 

[Seymour Flops]

{ rflops #452 to nfbw #451 } Yes, I do regard it as killing a baby. Upon fertilization, there is a baby with unique DNA. If it were possible to convince everyone of that, I would be happy to see the practice banned except to save the life of the mother.

{ nfbw #453 to rflops #452 } In order to maintain workaday social cohesion and basic law and order in America, is “killing a baby” not a (secular) crime or not a (religious) sin when the baby is killed before it is born during your two week window that you support killing it?

I don't support it. I recognize the necessity of compromise.

That "{rflops #452 . . . " business is annoying. I assume deliberately so. Or a ruse to cover up that you are some poster's sock.

Use the "reply" button or I'm done with you.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I don't support it. I recognize the necessity of compromise.

I did use the “reply button”. Is There something else format wise that you cannot deal with?

{ nfbw #455 to #454 } I do not support abortion as a contraceptive means because one, in the first trimester a fetus is not a baby and two, terminating the life of a fetus is not a crime or a sin in a secular society such as America is supposed to be.

So that’s very nice. We agree on not supporting abortion but I take it you do not want to answer the question that was asked.

Here it is again so you won’t have to look it up.

{ nfbw #453 to rflops #452 } In order to maintain workaday social cohesion and basic law and order in America, is “killing a baby” not a (secular) crime or not a (religious) sin when the baby is killed before it is born during your two week window that you support killing it?​

The former makes it easier to find quotes from a poster using the search feature without having to search through your posts that do not involve me. I thought you were a rational person such as myself willing to have a civilized, intelligent discussion on a very big issue in this country involving women’s rights.

But I see you’re easily misled into suspicions of conspiracy theories, and all I want to do is to see if you will answer my questions honestly for the purpose of a dialogue. So the balls in your court.


When you say you’re willing to kill unborn babies as a means of contraception for a two week period in a pregnancy, but I’m sorry it means you support killing, unborn babies if it leads to compromise with the killers.

So I will ask you again, leaving out the fact that you support a compromise with those who kill babies.

is “killing a baby” not a (secular) crime or not a (religious) sin when the baby is killed as a means of birth control before it is born?

 

[JoeB131]

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Yes, I do regard it as killing a baby.

In order to maintain workaday social cohesion and basic law and order in America, is “killing a baby” not a (secular) crime or not a (religious) sin when the innocent baby is killed in your compromise with leftist baby killers?

 

[Seymour Flops]

In order to maintain workaday social cohesion and basic law and order in America, is “killing a baby” not a (secular) crime or not a (religious) sin when the innocent baby is killed in your compromise with leftist baby killers?

In my proposed compromise with leftist baby killers, agreed to as a way to save as many babies as possible, killing a baby before brain wave activity would not be a crime.

Doesn't mean that we cannot reduce those abortions by persuasion, including making ourselves available to adopt/foster "unwanted" babies.

Whether it is a sin or not, is not for me to say, but for the Only Judge. I was as strongly opposed to abortion during the majority of my life when I was an atheist as I am now.

You can let the perfect be the enemy of the good if you choose. But your choice will prevent the saving of many babies whose brain waves have started and will feel the pain of the killing.

Interesting.

So when we have the technology to freeze a child or adult with a severe illness so that he or she can be kept alive until technology finds a cure, that child or adult will then not be a living human. No child or adult will be, for that matter.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

You can let the perfect be the enemy of the good if you choose. But your choice will prevent the saving of many babies whose brain waves have started and will feel the pain of the killing

{ nfbw #459 to #458 } I am not aware of a 9 week fetus producing its own brain waves. I cite {NIH} National Library of Medicine

At about the midpoint of pregnancy, from about 15 to 20 weeks after conception, the number of brain cells in the cerebral cortex increases rapidly;​

The Development and Shaping of the Brain - Discovering the Brain - NCBI Bookshelf

by the seventh month, the fetus is emitting its own brain waves, which can be detected through the mother's abdomen.​

​

Do you have a scientific source that that finds fetal brain waves in the 9th week of gestation?

 

[JoeB131]

So when we have the technology to freeze a child or adult with a severe illness so that he or she can be kept alive until technology finds a cure, that child or adult will then not be a living human. No child or adult will be, for that matter.

I suspect that if cryonics ever becomes anything but a scam, the companies that run it will have all sorts of waivers holding them blameless if you die from freezerburn.

The point is, you can't freeze someone who is actually alive. The freezing stops the process.

An Embryo isn't alive, therefore it can be frozen.