Abortion Trade Off/Compromise

[martybegan]

Again, were these attempts BEFORE Dobbs, or after.

And a discussion about someone's opinion of something is hardly proper evidence.

 

[Blues Man]

Again, were these attempts BEFORE Dobbs, or after.

And a discussion about someone's opinion of something is hardly proper evidence.

For one I never stated that I was providing evidence I am attempting to talk about the legal concept and some of the ramifications of such a law passing.

If you are incapable of discussing concepts instead of concrete laws then just say so

 

[martybegan]

For one I never stated that I was providing evidence I am attempting to talk about the legal concept and some of the ramifications of such a law passing.

If you are incapable of discussing concepts instead of concrete laws then just say so

The legal concept has to be based in some reality, or some real desire to pass a full personhood law for a fetus. I've stated that most of these attempts were probably end run strategies around Roe, which are now not needed because Roe is rightfully dead and buried.

I've already stated I think any type of "an adult can't travel from our State to get an abortion" law is unconstitutional, so you know my view on that.

You also know I am not an absolutist on either side. While I would prefer a from conception ban on elective abortions, I know that isn't feasible, so a 12-16 week ban works for me. I don't like the heartbeat laws because they are ambiguous, something I hate in laws.

 

[Blues Man]

The legal concept has to be based in some reality, or some real desire to pass a full personhood law for a fetus. I've stated that most of these attempts were probably end run strategies around Roe, which are now not needed because Roe is rightfully dead and buried.

I've already stated I think any type of "an adult can't travel from our State to get an abortion" law is unconstitutional, so you know my view on that.

You also know I am not an absolutist on either side. While I would prefer a from conception ban on elective abortions, I know that isn't feasible, so a 12-16 week ban works for me. I don't like the heartbeat laws because they are ambiguous, something I hate in laws.

And fetal personhood laws are being discussed or do you deny that?

Does a fetus count in the carpool lane? Texas’ abortion law creates new questions about legal personhood

A pregnant Texas woman said her fetus should count as a person in an HOV lane. That legal question is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the thorny question of “personhood.”

www.texastribune.org

Opinion | Wendy Davis: The dangerously hypocritical logic behind America's next big abortion battle

These hypocritical laws could have far-reaching implications, even in states that already restrict abortion. And the misogyny that drives this quest has an insatiable appetite.

www.nbcnews.com

A Brief Guide to Fetal Personhood, the Next Frontier In Anti-Choice Politics

Ending the constitutional right to abortion is not enough for many conservatives, who are likely to push for fetal personhood laws soon.

ballsandstrikes.org

that?

 

[martybegan]

And fetal personhood laws are being discussed or do you deny that?

Does a fetus count in the carpool lane? Texas’ abortion law creates new questions about legal personhood

A pregnant Texas woman said her fetus should count as a person in an HOV lane. That legal question is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the thorny question of “personhood.”

www.texastribune.org

Opinion | Wendy Davis: The dangerously hypocritical logic behind America's next big abortion battle

These hypocritical laws could have far-reaching implications, even in states that already restrict abortion. And the misogyny that drives this quest has an insatiable appetite.

www.nbcnews.com

A Brief Guide to Fetal Personhood, the Next Frontier In Anti-Choice Politics

Ending the constitutional right to abortion is not enough for many conservatives, who are likely to push for fetal personhood laws soon.

ballsandstrikes.org

that?

Holy long post space Batman....

It's being discussed of course, but I still don't see it being implemented, and one of the things you linked seems to be some abortion rights snark trying to get Roe conditions back.

 

[Blues Man]

Holy long post space Batman....

It's being discussed of course, but I still don't see it being implemented, and one of the things you linked seems to be some abortion rights snark trying to get Roe conditions back.

So then if it isn;t being currently implemented you are incapable of discussing it.

Just say so

 

[martybegan]

So then if it isn;t being currently implemented you are incapable of discussing it.

Just say so

We are discussing it, I just don't see full personhood laws for fetuses passing, and in some cases it's being snarked by abortion rights people in their fight to dig up Roe and make the cadaver dance like Bernie Lomax.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I'm good with abortions for any reason by any sound method up to 16 weeks, with exceptions for the mother's life afterwards, and of course non-viable fetuses being medically removed as safely as possible.

As for sanctity, that's a religious question.

23MAY26 NFBW: We all should know and accept biologically speaking that human life begins at conception. We all have our beliefs if we think about such things as to when the sanctity of life begins and is therefore entitled to protection from the state.

In your post Mr. martybgn at the top you say you are for state protection to begin at 16 weeks which means the federal and state governments have no interest in protecting a fetus prior to 16 weeks of gestation.

So is that 16 week marker the moment you want the state to recognize the sanctity of life and pass laws banning abortion after that with the usual exceptions?

 

[M14 Shooter]

We have it on record that m14shootr does not consider a woman having an unwanted pregnancy is not protected by the constitution of the United States of America

The USSC said so.
Your opinion does not matter.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The USSC said so.

Never in a million years has USSC said it “does not consider a woman having an unwanted pregnancy is not protected by the Constitution of the United States of America”

 

[M14 Shooter]

We have it on record that m14shootr ...

Let;s clear this up.
..said whatever right a woman has to abort that 10 week pregnancy, it is not protected by the US Constitution..
The USSC said so.
Your opinion does not matter.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

said whatever right a woman has to abort that 10 week pregnancy, it is not protected by the US Constitution..

What I said is a pregnant woman of 10 weeks is protected by the Constitution. I was making the point that a 10 week fetus is not individually protected by the Constitution. The fetus receives its rights through the mother, not as an individual of its own fundamentally because the fetus at 10 weeks does not have a brain or a neurological system of it’s own.

 

[M14 Shooter]

What I said is a pregnant woman of 10 weeks is protected by the constitution.

Sure she is.
Her right to abort that pregnancy is not.
The USSC said so.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Sure she is.
Her right to abort that pregnancy is not.
The USSC said so.

No, the court did not actually say that. The court said states have the right to deny her access to a safe and legal medical procedure. However, if she has the means she can travel to another state where abortion is legal, which means she does have a right to an abortion if she has a means to travel. No state thus far that I know of, will go after a resident of the state who travels to get an abortion in another state and then returns home. She still has a right to have an abortion.

 

[M14 Shooter]

No, the court did not actually say that.

Held: The Constitution does not confer a right to abortion; Roe and Casey
are overruled; and the authority to regulate abortion is returned to the
people and their elected representatives. Pp. 8–79

She still has a right to have an abortion.

And that right is not protected by the Constitution.
The USSC said so.

 

[JoeB131]

Just shows you don't need guns to mass murder, and if by some miracle you get guns to disappear cars can be just as deadly.

Um, I'll take a car mass murder every couple of years over a gun mass murder every few days.

Wrong. We have differing definitions of multiple things across the States.

Leave it up to the States to figure it out.

Have you met the kinds of idiots who run the states? No woman would want Abbott and DeSatan running their uterus.

That's not a real choice, and it's the sign of a police state.

libertarianism (small l) is about clear laws, less laws, and more local laws.

Um, yeah, I don't want to live in the Mad Max Thunderdome shit you guys want to live in.

If you want to run a business, FOLLOW THE LAWS.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Held: The Constitution does not confer a right to abortion; Roe and Casey
are overruled;

The Constitution does not deny the right to an abortion as well. it is silent,, she still has a right to an abortion in states where religious majorities do not ban it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

The Constitution does not deny the right to an abortion as well.

Irrelevant to what I said.
The right to an abortion is not protected by the Constitution.
The USSC said so.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

M14 Shooter

The right to an abortion is not protected by the Constitution.

It is still a right and Republicans are clearly exposed to be the Party against individual freedom for taking away a right in white Christian dominated states that women have had for 50 years.

 

[M14 Shooter]

M14 Shooter

It is still a right ....

....not protected by the Constitution.
The court did actually say that.