A very specific "off ramp" to end to the shutdown, majority rules. (Poll)

[WorldWatcher]

We are not on the same planet regarding the Federal budget. This is what I'm referring to, revenue vs expenditures:

View attachment 1170156
So for Biden's budget and the 10-yr CBO score it would be about $18.3T

My post #138 shows the current CBO score based on the GOP cutting $1.5T off Biden's budget. We can agree to disagree.

I gave you a direct link to the latest CBO estibmate (dated August 2025) showing an INCREASE of $3.4 Trillion for the period 2025-2034 resulting from the BBB.

Sir, I gave you the screen shot and the link.

WW

 

[Greenbeard]

My post #138 shows the current CBO score based on the GOP cutting $1.5T off Biden's budget. We can agree to disagree.

Your post (correctly) reflects that the CBO score shows the OBBBA will "increase the primary deficit". We're going in the wrong direction.

 

[kyzr]

I gave you a direct link to the latest CBO estimate (dated August 2025) showing an INCREASE of $3.4 Trillion for the period 2025-2034 resulting from the BBB.
Sir, I gave you the screen shot and the link.
WW

Very true your grace, but your link is regarding something called "PAYGO", which means no additional borrowing.
That is not where the BBB is. It is not PAYGO.

Understanding Pay-As-You-Go (PAYGO) vs. Statutory PAYGO in Federal Budgeting

The federal budget is a labyrinth of rules and jargon that can leave even the most engaged citizen feeling lost. At its heart, PAYGO is a straightforward idea: if new government policies are going to cost money—either by increasing spending on certain programs or by cutting taxes—that cost...

govfacts.org

My post #138 also provides a link to the latest CBO estimate that says:
"The Congressional Budget Office and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) previously reported that H.R. 1, the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, as passed by the House of Representatives on May 22, would increase the primary deficit by $2.4 trillion over the 2025-2034 period.[1] That estimate reflects a $3.7 trillion reduction in revenues and a $1.3 trillion reduction in noninterest outlay."

...and my link isn't just to Senator Whitehouse and other democrat senators about "PAYGO". I'm comfortable that the $240b annual deficit is the CBO's current score and that Republicans can improve that deficit with DOGE savings, interest cuts, or increased revenue if the average GDP exceeds 1.8%. I'll assume that the estimated tariff revenue of $350b is included in the CBO estimate.

 

[kyzr]

Your post (correctly) reflects that the CBO score shows the OBBBA will "increase the primary deficit". We're going in the wrong direction.

True. But Biden's last annual budget deficit was $1.83T, and the BBB projected annual deficit is $0.24T, so a major reduction in borrowing. Plus, if congress implements the DOGE savings, the Fed continues to cut interest rates, and/or the economy grows more than 1.8%, the deficit would be even less.

 

[Greenbeard]

True. But Biden's last annual budget deficit was $1.83T, and the BBB projected annual deficit is $0.24T, so a major reduction in borrowing.

Okay, again you're misunderstanding. The $0.24T is added to the existing deficit, it's not the deficit itself. That's why the deficit is increasing.

So take the BBB addition and add it to the existing $1.8 trillion deficit. That will be the total deficit.

The deficit is getting larger, not smaller.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Very true your grace, but your link is regarding something called "PAYGO", which means no additional borrowing.
That is not where the BBB is. It is not PAYGO.

Understanding Pay-As-You-Go (PAYGO) vs. Statutory PAYGO in Federal Budgeting

The federal budget is a labyrinth of rules and jargon that can leave even the most engaged citizen feeling lost. At its heart, PAYGO is a straightforward idea: if new government policies are going to cost money—either by increasing spending on certain programs or by cutting taxes—that cost...

govfacts.org

My post #138 also provides a link to the latest CBO estimate that says:
"The Congressional Budget Office and the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) previously reported that H.R. 1, the One Big Beautiful Bill Act, as passed by the House of Representatives on May 22, would increase the primary deficit by $2.4 trillion over the 2025-2034 period.[1] That estimate reflects a $3.7 trillion reduction in revenues and a $1.3 trillion reduction in noninterest outlay."

...and my link isn't just to Senator Whitehouse and other democrat senators about "PAYGO". I'm comfortable that the $240b annual deficit is the CBO's current score and that Republicans can improve that deficit with DOGE savings, interest cuts, or increased revenue if the average GDP exceeds 1.8%. I'll assume that the estimated tariff revenue of $350b is included in the CBO estimate.

Your highlight needs to start two words earlier with “increase by”.

WW

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Our servicemen need to get paychecks. The sooner the better.

They have 9 more days until payday.

 

[Foxfyre]

I like the filibuster to keep one party from going too far left or right. But as you say, now it is used as a weapon.

My recommendation is to only use it for "permanent laws", not for appropriations, or appointments, that are not "permanent".

There are better ways to ensure a responsible Congress when it comes to the laws they pass I think. Of course it will take a substantial majority of reformers, most likely MAGA GOP, to accomplish any serious reforms.

Just a few things that could help enormously:

1. Do away with baseline budgeting and go to zero base budgeting in every year. That would help enormously to eliminate a lot of wasteful and/or unethical spending. There would be no incentive to spend every penny to keep from having the baseline lowered the following year.

2. Require Congress to balance the budget except in the most extreme circumstances.

3. Eliminate all pensions, paid healthcare, etc. for members of Congress and appointees. They will access and pay for healthcare in the same way they require citizens do and whatever they contribute into their own 401ks or IRAs will be all they take with them when they return to private life.

4. Members of Congress cannot buy or sell stock or make other investments affected by congressional action while holding office.

5. Members of Congress must recuse themselves from votes that affect their personal finances. No automatic salary/expense increases. Each must be voted up or down with an on the record vote during regular congressional sessions and no member can benefit from a salary increase until they win their next election.

6. Any vote on expenditures, regulations, or laws must be on the record votes. Voice votes are restricted to ceremonial or procedural things that do not affect the taxpayers in any way. Members may not change their vote after the vote is final. Members may not revise or extend their remarks in the congressional record--whatever they say in formal debate is what will be in the congressional record.

7. Members of Congress will not exempt themselves from the affect of any law, policy, regulation they pass.

8. ALL spending above and beyond what is necessary for the daily administration of government will be via stand alone bills--no bundling with anything else--with on the record votes by members of Congress.

 

[kyzr]

Okay, again you're misunderstanding. The $0.24T is added to the existing deficit, it's not the deficit itself. That's why the deficit is increasing. So take the BBB addition and add it to the existing $1.8 trillion deficit. That will be the total deficit.
The deficit is getting larger, not smaller.

1. You are simply not getting that Budgets are annual, but the CBO scores the Debt over 10-years. The BBB would increase the ($37.7T DEBT) by $2.4 trillion over the 2025-2034 period. That is 10-years x $0.24T/yr. =$2.4T

2. Maybe you are confusing the DEBT (aka primary deficit) and (annual) DEFICIT? The national DEBT is currently $37.7T. The DEFICIT is the difference between revenues and expenditures in each year's budget. Biden's 2024 deficit was $1.83T and the BBB 2026 "projected deficit" is estimated to be $0.24T, which would need to be borrowed and added to the $37.7T DEBT.

 

[kyzr]

There are better ways to ensure a responsible Congress when it comes to the laws they pass I think. Of course it will take a substantial majority of reformers, most likely MAGA GOP, to accomplish any serious reforms.
Just a few things that could help enormously:
1. Do away with baseline budgeting and go to zero base budgeting in every year. That would help enormously to eliminate a lot of wasteful and/or unethical spending. There would be no incentive to spend every penny to keep from having the baseline lowered the following year.

Also don't punish departments if they have a surplus. There is always a mad rush to spend every appropriated dollar at the end of the fiscal year.

2. Require Congress to balance the budget except in the most extreme circumstances.

True. You don't need a new "Balanced Budget Amendment" a new LAW would suffice.

3. Eliminate all pensions, paid healthcare, etc. for members of Congress and appointees. They will access and pay for healthcare in the same way they require citizens do and whatever they contribute into their own 401ks or IRAs will be all they take with them when they return to private life.

Yes.

4. Members of Congress cannot buy or sell stock or make other investments affected by congressional action while holding office.

Yes

5. Members of Congress must recuse themselves from votes that affect their personal finances. No automatic salary/expense increases. Each must be voted up or down with an on the record vote during regular congressional sessions and no member can benefit from a salary increase until they win their next election.

I prefer term limits.

6. Any vote on expenditures, regulations, or laws must be on the record votes. Voice votes are restricted to ceremonial or procedural things that do not affect the taxpayers in any way. Members may not change their vote after the vote is final. Members may not revise or extend their remarks in the congressional record--whatever they say in formal debate is what will be in the congressional record.

Yes

7. Members of Congress will not exempt themselves from the affect of any law, policy, regulation they pass.

Yes. Why are they getting checks when no one else is?

8. ALL spending above and beyond what is necessary for the daily administration of government will be via stand alone bills--no bundling with anything else--with on the record votes by members of Congress.

Yes, but the crooks would still pass the spending. McCain would call them "earmarks".

 

[Foxfyre]

Also don't punish departments if they have a surplus. There is always a mad rush to spend every appropriated dollar at the end of the fiscal year.

True. You don't need a new "Balanced Budget Amendment" a new LAW would suffice.

Yes.

Yes

I prefer term limits.

Yes

Yes. Why are they getting checks when no one else is?

Yes, but the crooks would still pass the spending. McCain would call them "earmarks".

Zero base budgeting allows for managing departments efficiently, effectively, economically and responsibly for the American people. Pretty much every penny must be justified. Baseline budget is what encourages spending every penny. That's why I say get rid of it.

If my reforms were enacted, there would be no need for term limits. Only true public servants would likely run for office and certainly only true public servants who love what they do and are good at their jobs would keep running for office. Take the profit out of it and the professional politicians will no longer be interested. And elections for those offices wouldn't require millions and millions of dollars. I am reluctant to require term limits because dedication, public service, experience and knowledge are valuable things in government as much as they are in private enterprise. If you have a true public servant capably serving the people and who loves the job and wants to stay, I don't want to force that person out.

"Ear marks' are pork/special interests hidden/inserted into big, unfathomable spending bills. Stand alone bills would either eliminate 'ear marks' or at least would identify those voting for or against the legislation. That along would eliminate a lot of irresponsible spending as those in office wouldn't want to be known as sponsoring or voting for it.

 

[BackAgain]

What we need is to end the bullshit “continuing resolutions” entirely.

The Constitution calls on the Legislative Branch to authorize our spending budgets. Congress should be made to do just that and only that. Now, when and if Congress can’t get its collective shit together to do that important job, the result ought to be a freezing of all spending levels to the previously approved budget.

And the President should, at such time, be given the authority to reapportion those lines of spending as may be necessary to address the needs of the people in any fiscal year in which the new budget hasn’t been passed.

 

[Greenbeard]

1. You are simply not getting that Budgets are annual, but the CBO scores the Debt over 10-years. The BBB would increase the ($37.7T DEBT) by $2.4 trillion over the 2025-2034 period. That is 10-years x $0.24T/yr. =$2.4T

$2.4 trillion is just the incremental additional deficit increase resulting from the BBB. There's another $20 trillion being added to the debt over that period from existing law. We're not even close to balancing the budget.

 

[kyzr]

What we need is to end the bullshit “continuing resolutions” entirely.

We need to keep the government running even when the two parties can't pass a budget. My wife noticed that they take too much tie off to get the budget done. Maybe hold heir pay until thy pass all the appropriations bills & no days off?

The Constitution calls on the Legislative Branch to authorize our spending budgets. Congress should be made to do just that and only that. Now, when and if Congress can’t get its collective shit together to do that important job, the result ought to be a freezing of all spending levels to the previously approved budget.

aka a "continuing resolution"

And the President should, at such time, be given the authority to reapportion those lines of spending as may be necessary to address the needs of the people in any fiscal year in which the new budget hasn’t been passed.

A line item veto I believe was ruled unconstitutional by the USSC.

 

[Foxfyre]

What we need is to end the bullshit “continuing resolutions” entirely.

The Constitution calls on the Legislative Branch to authorize our spending budgets. Congress should be made to do just that and only that. Now, when and if Congress can’t get its collective shit together to do that important job, the result ought to be a freezing of all spending levels to the previously approved budget.

And the President should, at such time, be given the authority to reapportion those lines of spending as may be necessary to address the needs of the people in any fiscal year in which the new budget hasn’t been passed.

I wouldn't want Biden to have the authority to reapportion anything though. And it is not a function constitutionally given to the President except on a very limited basis. But yes. Any Congress that doesn't have a responsible budget on the President's desk by October 1 should be thoroughly punished by the voters. There should be no need for CRs ever.

 

[kyzr]

$2.4 trillion is just the incremental additional deficit increase resulting from the BBB. There's another $20 trillion being added to the debt over that period from existing law. We're not even close to balancing the budget.

NOPE. There are only the National DEBT of $37.7T and the annual budget deficit ($240b/yr) to be borrowed and added to the debt.

There is no $20T. Can you link to that $20T so I see what it is? Here is the "National Debt Clock":

Real Time US National Debt Clock | US Debt Clock.org

United States National Debt Clocks

www.us-debt-clock.org

There is another term called "Entitlement Debt" which is what entitlements will cost in coming years, and that number can't be covered by the government. But social security can be cut so that "money out" equals "money in". Medicaid will probably go bankrupt.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Also don't punish departments if they have a surplus. There is always a mad rush to spend every appropriated dollar at the end of the fiscal year.

True. You don't need a new "Balanced Budget Amendment" a new LAW would suffice.

Yes.

Yes

I prefer term limits.

Yes

Yes. Why are they getting checks when no one else is?

Yes, but the crooks would still pass the spending. McCain would call them "earmarks".

Because the Constitution says they are never stopped from getting paid.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

There are better ways to ensure a responsible Congress when it comes to the laws they pass I think. Of course it will take a substantial majority of reformers, most likely MAGA GOP, to accomplish any serious reforms.

Just a few things that could help enormously:

1. Do away with baseline budgeting and go to zero base budgeting in every year. That would help enormously to eliminate a lot of wasteful and/or unethical spending. There would be no incentive to spend every penny to keep from having the baseline lowered the following year.

2. Require Congress to balance the budget except in the most extreme circumstances.

3. Eliminate all pensions, paid healthcare, etc. for members of Congress and appointees. They will access and pay for healthcare in the same way they require citizens do and whatever they contribute into their own 401ks or IRAs will be all they take with them when they return to private life.

4. Members of Congress cannot buy or sell stock or make other investments affected by congressional action while holding office.

5. Members of Congress must recuse themselves from votes that affect their personal finances. No automatic salary/expense increases. Each must be voted up or down with an on the record vote during regular congressional sessions and no member can benefit from a salary increase until they win their next election.

6. Any vote on expenditures, regulations, or laws must be on the record votes. Voice votes are restricted to ceremonial or procedural things that do not affect the taxpayers in any way. Members may not change their vote after the vote is final. Members may not revise or extend their remarks in the congressional record--whatever they say in formal debate is what will be in the congressional record.

7. Members of Congress will not exempt themselves from the affect of any law, policy, regulation they pass.

8. ALL spending above and beyond what is necessary for the daily administration of government will be via stand alone bills--no bundling with anything else--with on the record votes by members of Congress.

That's already in the Constitution. For the record, Congress has voted down their automatic pay increases for several terms.

 

[WorldWatcher]

We need to keep the government running even when the two parties can't pass a budget.

I respectfully disagree, if they can't pass a budget shut it down. Not the "slow down" we have now, I mean literally shut it down.

WW

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I respectfully disagree, if they can't pass a budget shut it down. Not the "slow down" we have now, I mean literally shut it down.

WW

Yeah, like that would be a good thing! You are an idiot if you think people will stay on the job indefinitely without being paid.