A Question

[there4eyeM]

"Japan did not start the war!"

Gracious, I've made a serious mistake with all my posts. Sorry, I thought we were talking about the Japan of about 1937 to 1945.
What war did the US have with Japan that the US started? I didn't know about it.

Japan started WW2? Or, maybe it was a special US/Japanese war? Or why did US and USSR agree to JOINTLY FINISH WW2 with military action against Japan?

Clearly, English is a bit of a challenge, so let's back up.
WWII started when? It could be easily argued that it started November 11, 1918.

When did the US become engaged fully in WWII? December 8, 1941.

When did Japan begin the belligerent actions that led to their war with the US? No later than 1937.

Which country attacked which on December 7, 1941?

Who started that war, and brought the US into WWII?

 

[there4eyeM]

History does not view it as humanitarian.

Yeah, because how something is viewed always outweighs what it actually was?

How humans view anything IS the way it is. What other 'is' could there be? What outside observer is there?

 

[SFC Ollie]

You are extremely misguided. Or ignorant of facts.......

Are you telling me US did not deliberately target civilians in Dresden, Japan, Vietnam, Serbia, Iraq and Libya?

Please show me where it was US policy to attack civilians in Iraq, I know you don't know enough about Libya.

Fact is that civilians were targets in WW2. Too fucking bad about that. But Another point you seem to forget is that Russia never declared war on Japan until after we dropped the first bomb...

And no matter how you try to spin it those bombs did save lives, on both sides....

 

[Publius1787]

Why would it be a war crime?

Because US DELIBERATELY TARGETED CIVILIANS FOR MASS EXTERMINATION.

Funny that you responded to nothing else that I posted. Just the first sentence, completely avoiding the facts that follow. We targeted their war making ability. Both were military targets. Both would have been shelled to the ground by artillery/air and naval bombardment. Both would have ended up with Japanese military impressment and the murder of civilians for receiving aid from the Americans. Both would have had to be taken as Okinawa was with far more civilian deaths than either of the bombs. In context, two Atomic bombs sounds humane!

 

[Unkotare]

You are correct. The US did it in Vietnam (be it unsuccessful); it did it in Serbia, in Iraq, in Libya ...

That is an absurdly hyperbolic degree of equivalency.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Nothing about war is humane, necessary maybe but not really humane....

 

[AnonymousIV]

It's sad, where I live there is a freedom bell, it's a gong. It's almost frightening to stand and hear the bell. It was in defense of our county. We would not have bombed Japan, had not it invaded our county. Thoughts of the A-Bomb exploding, somber, pain, and deep remorse.

 

[Unkotare]

Consider it an act of compassion.

Some people just can't discuss this issue without indulging in ridiculous extremes.

 

[Publius1787]

You are extremely misguided. Or ignorant of facts.......

Are you telling me US did not deliberately target civilians in Dresden, Japan, Vietnam, Serbia, Iraq and Libya?

Please show me where it was US policy to attack civilians in Iraq, I know you don't know enough about Libya.

Fact is that civilians were targets in WW2. Too fucking bad about that. But Another point you seem to forget is that Russia never declared war on Japan until after we dropped the first bomb...

And no matter how you try to spin it those bombs did save lives, on both sides....

Yeah, that shocked me as well since I've served in the "USMC grunt" capacity in Iraq. I have no idea of what he's talking about. However, I think, like most antiwar nuts, they exploit what they can because their ideology is so absolute that there is no extent of which they will not go through in order to lie to the world and make people like myself out to be horrendous baby killers.

 

[Unkotare]

Who has called you a "baby killer"?

 

[Ernie S.]

So, the systematic execution of every civilian in the country would have been ok with you (if such a thing were pracitcally possible).

No, and it wouldn't have been necessary either. The demonstration of our capabilities was all that was needed for Japan to be demoralized.

Killing armies is pretty ineffective as we've seen in every conflict since WWII.
Only by demoralizing the enemy and removing their will to fight can war be won and peace achieved.
Dropping atomic bombs on Japan may have taken a quarter million lives, but likely saved 4 times as many in a land invasion.

In other words, since the US got away with mass slaughter of civilians in Japan, in every other war US used the same tactic: it TARGETS CIVILIANS to force the government into surrender!

You are correct. The US did it in Vietnam (be it unsuccessful); it did it in Serbia, in Iraq, in Libya ...

Mostly false. While civilians inevitably die in war, US policy has been to limit civilian casualties since Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

You failed to answer my question. Where do you live?

 

[Ernie S.]

Anything to justify crimes against humanity perpetrated by the US!

Then why did you, Americans, got outraged by 9/11? After all, it was a "one-off of sorts". Or do you have different moral boundaries for yourselves and for the rest of the world?

There is a vast difference between starting a war and ending one.

Japan did not start the war!
And if to follow your logic, would you welcome the use of WMD on US cities for starting scores of wars around the world?

Seems to me there was a little to do at Pearl Harbor that got us pissed off at Japan.

 

[mememe]

Really? When?

When a series of civil wars broke out in Yugoslavia -- the first victim of coloured revolutions...

That hardly constitutes WWIII.

It was the beginning of what we see now: a slow but sure merger of local wars into one big chaos of destabilised world where US will be seen as the only island of calm and stability fit for investments...

 

[Publius1787]

Who has called you a "baby killer"?

I never said anyone has, however since you mentioned it, I was once called a baby killer by a British sounding guy in SanFrancisco only to see my Arab taxi driver hop out and make a fool out of him in a hotel lobby. I never had to say a word. It was great!

 

[AnonymousIV]

gong - sound effect - YouTube

 

[mememe]

WWII started when? It could be easily argued that it started November 11, 1918.

When did the US become engaged fully in WWII? December 8, 1941.

When did Japan begin the belligerent actions that led to their war with the US? No later than 1937.

Which country attacked which on December 7, 1941?

Who started that war, and brought the US into WWII?

No, it did not start in 1918. WW2 started as a series of localised conflicts after the rise to power of Nazis and Fascists. It became a full blown WORLD war in 1941. Attack on Pearl Harbour was just one in a chain of other attacks and wars that were already consuming Africa, Asia and Europe.

 

[there4eyeM]

Your interpretation. Many historians date WWII to the Rape of Nanking by Japan in 1937.

 

[Publius1787]

Your interpretation. Many historians date WWII to the Rape of Nanking by Japan in 1937.

Yet another great reason we used the bomb against such a culture. I forgot about the second Sino-Japanses War.

 

[mememe]

You are extremely misguided. Or ignorant of facts.......

Are you telling me US did not deliberately target civilians in Dresden, Japan, Vietnam, Serbia, Iraq and Libya?

Please show me where it was US policy to attack civilians in Iraq, I know you don't know enough about Libya.

Fact is that civilians were targets in WW2. Too fucking bad about that.

But Another point you seem to forget is that Russia never declared war on Japan until after we dropped the first bomb...

And no matter how you try to spin it those bombs did save lives, on both sides....

I'm sorry, but what other purpose is for the use of white phosphorus in a heavily populated cities?! And I know plenty about "civilised" air strikes on civilian infrastructure and other targets in Libya.

Yes, civilians were the targets in WW2, for that Nazis stood NUREMBERG TRIAL!

It must be according to some special US calendar. Because according to a conventional one, US dropped the bombs on the 6 and 9 of August 1945; while in February of 1945 during the Yalta conference the Soviet Union "commits itself to enter the war with Japan, not later than three months after Germany's defeat".
On April the 5-th the Soviet Union denounces a neutrality pact between the USSR and Japan.
And on August the 2-nd the USSR reaffirms its commitment to enter into a war with Japan no later then three month after German capitulation.
That's why US rushed through their bombing of Japan: they did not want the Soviets there.

Are you going to be happy for WMD to be used on US cities to "save lives on both sides"?

 

[mememe]

Why would it be a war crime?

Because US DELIBERATELY TARGETED CIVILIANS FOR MASS EXTERMINATION.

Funny that you responded to nothing else that I posted. Just the first sentence, completely avoiding the facts that follow. We targeted their war making ability.

There were NO "military ability" in neither cities! The US forced Japanese government to capitulate by exterminating civilians on a mass scale! Same US did in Vietnam, Serbia and Libya! Same it is doing now in Syria, only instead of WMD or carpet bombing of civilians, US uses terrorists and gangs of international rubble...