A question to all Christians

[Oscar Wao]

The issue of "sodomites" and such (as I stated about 3 times here already) had to do with promiscuity, shrine prostitution, and sexual acts dedicated to "gods" such as Molech.

God said the COI were to be a distinct people, separate from all the other nations, religions, and cultures, and that they were to serve Him, a Jealous God, only. Anything that had to do with false god worship would be violating the first and/or second commandment. Pagan worship (which would include sexual acts, not just sacrifices and ceremonial acts) was and still is, of course, abomination because it is not glorifying Him.

 

[Gunny]

Jesus was not persecuted and killed for not obeying the laws. He was persecuted and killed because it was the will of God for Him to be. One of the things the religious leaders of His day hated most about Jesus was that they couldn't find any legitimate legal reason to attack Him.

Good grief, the more you talk, the worse that "spiffy" church of yours looks.

The romans didn't need a legal reason to kill jesus. They weren't a very democratic and benevolent group.

Caiaphas convicted Jesus for disobeying Jewish civil and religous law and his authority during Passover. As de-facto ruler of the entire Jewish religon he could not afford with anyone challenging his authority when the city was full of a half million Jews for Passover. The Sanhedrin controlled all Jewish civil and religous law and he was supreme council of that.
Of course the Sanhedrin could not operate without support and approval from Rome and they kissed their ass. Romelooked the other way and contributed to Jesus' death.

So you admit your statement was incorrect?

 

[Gunny]

The romans didn't need a legal reason to kill jesus. They weren't a very democratic and benevolent group.

He is incorrect. Jesus WAS arrested and persecuted for going against the Pharisees. That may have been God's will, but it was claiming Jesus broke no laws is incorrect. The Pharisees could not have brought Christ before Pilate without a mortal premise.

You are absolutely correct but the Romans held the power and they ran the area and Caiaphas answered to them first.

He STILL was convicted and crucified for breaking MAN's law, by MAN, God's will or no ...

 

[Gunny]

Which Bible are you reading? Where does it (the Bible) say that He did not obey the laws of his day?

Brother, you do not have a clue about the Bible. Let me educate you once again:
Have you ever heard of the Pharisees in the Bible? Who were they and what did they demand and who did they represent?
Try reading Matthew 12 as just one of many examples where Jesus could care less of the law of his day.
Jesus had his disciples out in the fields working ON THE SABBATH.
Please inform us why the Pharisees protested to Jesus about having the disciples out working in the field on the Sabbath. Could it be that the LAW of the day was strictly against that?
Jesus taught about GOD'S LAW. The Pharisees were the protectors of oldJewish law and the 4th commandment prohibited working on the Sabbath.
News flash once again to the uninformed here: Jewish law WAS THE LAW and it was religous law of the day and Jesus did not answer to all of it and opposed a lot of it.
After all, you doknow that Jesus was born A JEW.
Folks, this is getting way too easy. Shooting fish in a barrell.
Please, someone, anyone make a valid argument concerning the Bible. A challenge of some kind, any kind that is harder than this.

No, He didn't BREAK the law or oppose it.

He FULFILLED it by saying that it wasn't a blind following of a bunch of rules was going to make one right with God, but rather faith was what made one right with God, with goodness following naturally (from the heart) afterwards.

It was all summed up in the Law of Love: Love God and others as you would love yourself. If you love God, you'll use His name properly and worship Him only. If you love others, you will treat them properly, will not murder them, steal, etc.

But THAT is not MAN's law. He broke or was accused of and crucified for breaking MAN's law, not God's.

And it's word. He was here t fulfill the "word" of God.

 

[Gunny]

The issue of "sodomites" and such (as I stated about 3 times here already) had to do with promiscuity, shrine prostitution, and sexual acts dedicated to "gods" such as Molech.

God said the COI were to be a distinct people, separate from all the other nations, religions, and cultures, and that they were to serve Him, a Jealous God, only. Anything that had to do with false god worship would be violating the first and/or second commandment. Pagan worship was and still is, of course, abomination because it is not glorifying Him.

And it's not MAN's place to judge ... it's God's.

 

[CMike]

Jesus was not persecuted and killed for not obeying the laws. He was persecuted and killed because it was the will of God for Him to be. One of the things the religious leaders of His day hated most about Jesus was that they couldn't find any legitimate legal reason to attack Him.

Good grief, the more you talk, the worse that "spiffy" church of yours looks.

The romans didn't need a legal reason to kill jesus. They weren't a very democratic and benevolent group.

He is incorrect. Jesus WAS arrested and persecuted for going against the Pharisees. That may have been God's will, but it was claiming Jesus broke no laws is incorrect. The Pharisees could not have brought Christ before Pilate without a mortal premise.

That is just silly.

The romans were cruel oppressors of the jews. They could care less what the jews wanted or desired.

The romans killed jesus for their own reasons.

 

[CMike]

Jesus was not persecuted and killed for not obeying the laws. He was persecuted and killed because it was the will of God for Him to be. One of the things the religious leaders of His day hated most about Jesus was that they couldn't find any legitimate legal reason to attack Him.

Good grief, the more you talk, the worse that "spiffy" church of yours looks.

The romans didn't need a legal reason to kill jesus. They weren't a very democratic and benevolent group.

Caiaphas convicted Jesus for disobeying Jewish civil and religous law and his authority during Passover. As de-facto ruler of the entire Jewish religon he could not afford with anyone challenging his authority when the city was full of a half million Jews for Passover. The Sanhedrin controlled all Jewish civil and religous law and he was supreme council of that.
Of course the Sanhedrin could not operate without support and approval from Rome and they kissed their ass. Romelooked the other way and contributed to Jesus' death.

You are factually wrong.

The Sanhedrin was disbanded at the time. There was no jewish court.

The romans cared nothing about jewish opinion, and they didn't have feedback sessions with the jews.

If the jews got out of line, they murdered them.

I know, I know, it's always the jews' fault.

 

[CMike]

Brother, you do not have a clue about the Bible. Let me educate you once again:
Have you ever heard of the Pharisees in the Bible? Who were they and what did they demand and who did they represent?
Try reading Matthew 12 as just one of many examples where Jesus could care less of the law of his day.
Jesus had his disciples out in the fields working ON THE SABBATH.
Please inform us why the Pharisees protested to Jesus about having the disciples out working in the field on the Sabbath. Could it be that the LAW of the day was strictly against that?
Jesus taught about GOD'S LAW. The Pharisees were the protectors of oldJewish law and the 4th commandment prohibited working on the Sabbath.
News flash once again to the uninformed here: Jewish law WAS THE LAW and it was religous law of the day and Jesus did not answer to all of it and opposed a lot of it.
After all, you doknow that Jesus was born A JEW.
Folks, this is getting way too easy. Shooting fish in a barrell.
Please, someone, anyone make a valid argument concerning the Bible. A challenge of some kind, any kind that is harder than this.

No, He didn't BREAK the law or oppose it.

He FULFILLED it by saying that it wasn't a blind following of a bunch of rules was going to make one right with God, but rather faith was what made one right with God, with goodness following naturally (from the heart) afterwards.

It was all summed up in the Law of Love: Love God and others as you would love yourself. If you love God, you'll use His name properly and worship Him only. If you love others, you will treat them properly, will not murder them, steal, etc.

But THAT is not MAN's law. He broke or was accused of and crucified for breaking MAN's law, not God's.

And it's word. He was here t fulfill the "word" of God.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

The laws in the Torah are perpetual. There is no such thing as "fulfilling" it.

Do not steal. How did he fulfill that?

Do not take G-D's name in vain? How did he fulfill that?

The laws of the Torah are everlasting.

 

[Oscar Wao]

Brother, you do not have a clue about the Bible. Let me educate you once again:
Have you ever heard of the Pharisees in the Bible? Who were they and what did they demand and who did they represent?
Try reading Matthew 12 as just one of many examples where Jesus could care less of the law of his day.
Jesus had his disciples out in the fields working ON THE SABBATH.
Please inform us why the Pharisees protested to Jesus about having the disciples out working in the field on the Sabbath. Could it be that the LAW of the day was strictly against that?
Jesus taught about GOD'S LAW. The Pharisees were the protectors of oldJewish law and the 4th commandment prohibited working on the Sabbath.
News flash once again to the uninformed here: Jewish law WAS THE LAW and it was religous law of the day and Jesus did not answer to all of it and opposed a lot of it.
After all, you doknow that Jesus was born A JEW.
Folks, this is getting way too easy. Shooting fish in a barrell.
Please, someone, anyone make a valid argument concerning the Bible. A challenge of some kind, any kind that is harder than this.

No, He didn't BREAK the law or oppose it.

He FULFILLED it by saying that it wasn't a blind following of a bunch of rules was going to make one right with God, but rather faith was what made one right with God, with goodness following naturally (from the heart) afterwards.

It was all summed up in the Law of Love: Love God and others as you would love yourself. If you love God, you'll use His name properly and worship Him only. If you love others, you will treat them properly, will not murder them, steal, etc.

But THAT is not MAN's law. He broke or was accused of and crucified for breaking MAN's law, not God's.

And it's word. He was here t fulfill the "word" of God.

That's sorta my point.

My point here is that He was tried and condemned for allegedly breaking God's law, but it was in reality man's spin on it.

 

[CMike]

Brother, you do not have a clue about the Bible. Let me educate you once again:
Have you ever heard of the Pharisees in the Bible? Who were they and what did they demand and who did they represent?
Try reading Matthew 12 as just one of many examples where Jesus could care less of the law of his day.
Jesus had his disciples out in the fields working ON THE SABBATH.
Please inform us why the Pharisees protested to Jesus about having the disciples out working in the field on the Sabbath. Could it be that the LAW of the day was strictly against that?
Jesus taught about GOD'S LAW. The Pharisees were the protectors of oldJewish law and the 4th commandment prohibited working on the Sabbath.
News flash once again to the uninformed here: Jewish law WAS THE LAW and it was religous law of the day and Jesus did not answer to all of it and opposed a lot of it.
After all, you doknow that Jesus was born A JEW.
Folks, this is getting way too easy. Shooting fish in a barrell.
Please, someone, anyone make a valid argument concerning the Bible. A challenge of some kind, any kind that is harder than this.

No, He didn't BREAK the law or oppose it.

He FULFILLED it by saying that it wasn't a blind following of a bunch of rules was going to make one right with God, but rather faith was what made one right with God, with goodness following naturally (from the heart) afterwards.

It was all summed up in the Law of Love: Love God and others as you would love yourself. If you love God, you'll use His name properly and worship Him only. If you love others, you will treat them properly, will not murder them, steal, etc.

But THAT is not MAN's law. He broke or was accused of and crucified for breaking MAN's law, not God's.

And it's word. He was here t fulfill the "word" of God.

Actually jesus broke the laws of G-D. He violated perhaps the most serious law that G-D gave.

Deuteronomy - Chapter 13 (Parshah Re'eh) - Deuteronomy - Torah - Bible
5. You shall follow the Lord, your God, fear Him, keep His commandments, heed His voice, worship Him, and cleave to Him. ה. אַחֲרֵי יְ־הֹוָ־ה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם תֵּלֵכוּ וְאֹתוֹ תִירָאוּ וְאֶת מִצְוֹתָיו תִּשְׁמֹרוּ וּבְקֹלוֹ תִשְׁמָעוּ וְאֹתוֹ תַעֲבֹדוּ וּבוֹ תִדְבָּקוּן:

6. And that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream shall be put to death; because he spoke falsehood about the Lord, your God Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeemed you from the house of bondage, to lead you astray from the way in which the Lord, your God, commanded you to go; so shall you clear away the evil from your midst. ו. וְהַנָּבִיא הַהוּא אוֹ חֹלֵם הַחֲלוֹם הַהוּא יוּמָת כִּי דִבֶּר סָרָה עַל יְ־הֹוָ־ה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם הַמּוֹצִיא אֶתְכֶם מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרַיִם וְהַפֹּדְךָ מִבֵּית עֲבָדִים לְהַדִּיחֲךָ מִן הַדֶּרֶךְ אֲשֶׁר צִוְּךָ יְ־הֹוָ־ה אֱלֹהֶיךָ לָלֶכֶת בָּהּ וּבִעַרְתָּ הָרָע מִקִּרְבֶּךָ:

7. If your brother, the son of your mother, tempts you in secret or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your embrace, or your friend, who is as your own soul saying, "Let us go and worship other gods, which neither you, nor your forefathers have known." ז. כִּי יְסִיתְךָ אָחִיךָ בֶן אִמֶּךָ אוֹ בִנְךָ אוֹ בִתְּךָ אוֹ אֵשֶׁת חֵיקֶךָ אוֹ רֵעֲךָ אֲשֶׁר כְּנַפְשְׁךָ בַּסֵּתֶר לֵאמֹר נֵלְכָה וְנַעַבְדָה אֱ־לֹהִים אֲחֵרִים אֲשֶׁר לֹא יָדַעְתָּ אַתָּה וַאֲבֹתֶיךָ:

8. Of the gods of the peoples around you, [whether] near to you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth; ח. מֵאֱלֹהֵי הָעַמִּים אֲשֶׁר סְבִיבֹתֵיכֶם הַקְּרֹבִים אֵלֶיךָ אוֹ הָרְחֹקִים מִמֶּךָּ מִקְצֵה הָאָרֶץ וְעַד קְצֵה הָאָרֶץ:

9. You shall not desire him, and you shall not hearken to him; neither shall you pity him, have mercy upon him, nor shield him. ט. לֹא תֹאבֶה לוֹ וְלֹא תִשְׁמַע אֵלָיו וְלֹא תָחוֹס עֵינְךָ עָלָיו וְלֹא תַחְמֹל וְלֹא תְכַסֶּה עָלָיו:

10. But you shall surely kill him, your hand shall be the first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. י. כִּי הָרֹג תַּהַרְגֶנּוּ יָדְךָ תִּהְיֶה בּוֹ בָרִאשׁוֹנָה לַהֲמִיתוֹ וְיַד כָּל הָעָם בָּאַחֲרֹנָה:

11. And you shall stone him with stones so that he dies, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. יא. וּסְקַלְתּוֹ בָאֲבָנִים וָמֵת כִּי בִקֵּשׁ לְהַדִּיחֲךָ מֵעַל יְ־הֹוָ־ה אֱלֹהֶיךָ הַמּוֹצִיאֲךָ מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרַיִם מִבֵּית עֲבָדִים:

12. And all Israel shall listen and fear, and they shall no longer do any evil such as this in your midst.

 

[CMike]

No, He didn't BREAK the law or oppose it.

He FULFILLED it by saying that it wasn't a blind following of a bunch of rules was going to make one right with God, but rather faith was what made one right with God, with goodness following naturally (from the heart) afterwards.

It was all summed up in the Law of Love: Love God and others as you would love yourself. If you love God, you'll use His name properly and worship Him only. If you love others, you will treat them properly, will not murder them, steal, etc.

But THAT is not MAN's law. He broke or was accused of and crucified for breaking MAN's law, not God's.

And it's word. He was here t fulfill the "word" of God.

That's sorta my point.

My point here is that He was tried and condemned for allegedly breaking God's law, but it was in reality man's spin on it.

He was executed because the romans wanted to execute him. There doesn't need to be any other reason more than that.

 

[Gadawg73]

My church is an accepting and open church.We do not judge anyone and state they are an abomination for their beliefs or sexual orientation. We find no where in The Bible where Jesus stated anything bad about gays.
Why do many of you claim we are wrong when Jesus is the reason we celebrate life?
Why are all of you so infatuated with someone else's sex life?
What does that have to do with being a Christian? How is it being Christlike condemning gay folks?

Sounds like a great Church... Of course... that assumes a rather loose representation of 'Church'...

I mean it's a word which is typically associated with Christianity... Christ's flock... His church...

And the last time I checked, Christ was God... and as far as I know; Christ was very explicit in his position that he did not come to revise any laws which he had formerly laid down.

Such as the rules regarding homosexuality to which were spoken in Leviticus: 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Further noting in the same book in Chapter 20; verse 13... "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Thus the notion that 'Christ didn't condemn homosexuality' is a spurious and thorough representation of the facts. Christ didn't specifically speak to most things... Nothing specific with regard to Pedophilia, or Serial Killing; he didn't have anything to say about cross-dressing or the abominations known as the AMC Gremlin or Ford Pacer... Yet these are all distinct facets of evil... each demonstrating the failure of the individual that advocates for such to bear the responsibilities inherent in their God-given rights...

YA might want to revise the name of your 'church' to something which better reflects the evil you're perpetuating.

You're given the right to choose your own path; but you've a responsibility to not influence others towards their own ruin...

Do you prefer mustard, mayo or both with your baloney?

 

[Cecilie1200]

That one does not have any quote of Jesus condemning homosexuality.
Not one.
Try again.
Jesus was a radical of his time and that web site claims that Jesus obeyed the law of the day. LOL. Jesus was persecuted and killed because HE DID NOT obey the laws of his day.
That web site is a joke.

Jesus was not persecuted and killed for not obeying the laws. He was persecuted and killed because it was the will of God for Him to be. One of the things the religious leaders of His day hated most about Jesus was that they couldn't find any legitimate legal reason to attack Him.

Good grief, the more you talk, the worse that "spiffy" church of yours looks.

The romans didn't need a legal reason to kill jesus. They weren't a very democratic and benevolent group.

Actually, they did need a legal reason, because they were generally pretty good about abiding by their own laws and policies. That's how they remained such a powerful, far-flung empire for so long. Admittedly, they weren't the kindest of taskmasters, but they kept order well. In this case, their policy was to default to the laws and leaders of the governed areas in order to keep peace. The Jewish leaders insisted, so the Romans carried out their policy. But it's unlikely the Romans would have killed Him just for the hell of it.

 

[Gadawg73]

Which Bible are you reading? Where does it (the Bible) say that He did not obey the laws of his day?

Brother, you do not have a clue about the Bible. Let me educate you once again:
Have you ever heard of the Pharisees in the Bible? Who were they and what did they demand and who did they represent?
Try reading Matthew 12 as just one of many examples where Jesus could care less of the law of his day.
Jesus had his disciples out in the fields working ON THE SABBATH.
Please inform us why the Pharisees protested to Jesus about having the disciples out working in the field on the Sabbath. Could it be that the LAW of the day was strictly against that?
Jesus taught about GOD'S LAW. The Pharisees were the protectors of oldJewish law and the 4th commandment prohibited working on the Sabbath.
News flash once again to the uninformed here: Jewish law WAS THE LAW and it was religous law of the day and Jesus did not answer to all of it and opposed a lot of it.
After all, you doknow that Jesus was born A JEW.
Folks, this is getting way too easy. Shooting fish in a barrell.
Please, someone, anyone make a valid argument concerning the Bible. A challenge of some kind, any kind that is harder than this.

No, He didn't BREAK the law or oppose it.

He FULFILLED it by saying that it wasn't a blind following of a bunch of rules was going to make one right with God, but rather faith was what made one right with God, with goodness following naturally (from the heart) afterwards.

It was all summed up in the Law of Love: Love God and others as you would love yourself. If you love God, you'll use His name properly and worship Him only. If you love others, you will treat them properly, will not murder them, steal, etc.

Working on the Sabbath was not breaking the law?
My good man, the 10 commandments WAS the law in all Jewish society of the day.

 

[Gunny]

No, He didn't BREAK the law or oppose it.

He FULFILLED it by saying that it wasn't a blind following of a bunch of rules was going to make one right with God, but rather faith was what made one right with God, with goodness following naturally (from the heart) afterwards.

It was all summed up in the Law of Love: Love God and others as you would love yourself. If you love God, you'll use His name properly and worship Him only. If you love others, you will treat them properly, will not murder them, steal, etc.

But THAT is not MAN's law. He broke or was accused of and crucified for breaking MAN's law, not God's.

And it's word. He was here t fulfill the "word" of God.

Where do you guys come up with this stuff?

The laws in the Torah are perpetual. There is no such thing as "fulfilling" it.

Do not steal. How did he fulfill that?

Do not take G-D's name in vain? How did he fulfill that?

The laws of the Torah are everlasting.

IF you believe in the Torah ...

 

[Gunny]

But THAT is not MAN's law. He broke or was accused of and crucified for breaking MAN's law, not God's.

And it's word. He was here t fulfill the "word" of God.

That's sorta my point.

My point here is that He was tried and condemned for allegedly breaking God's law, but it was in reality man's spin on it.

He was executed because the romans wanted to execute him. There doesn't need to be any other reason more than that.

Incorrect. He was executed because the Pharisees wanted him executed. The Romans could have cared less. The Pharisees chose to free Barrabas rather than Jesus.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Jesus was not persecuted and killed for not obeying the laws. He was persecuted and killed because it was the will of God for Him to be. One of the things the religious leaders of His day hated most about Jesus was that they couldn't find any legitimate legal reason to attack Him.

Good grief, the more you talk, the worse that "spiffy" church of yours looks.

The romans didn't need a legal reason to kill jesus. They weren't a very democratic and benevolent group.

He is incorrect. Jesus WAS arrested and persecuted for going against the Pharisees. That may have been God's will, but it was claiming Jesus broke no laws is incorrect. The Pharisees could not have brought Christ before Pilate without a mortal premise.

If Jesus had broken the law, why did Pilate find that He hadn't? The truth is, Jesus never broke the Law of Moses, under which the Jews lived. The charges against Him were trumped up.

 

[Cecilie1200]

He is incorrect. Jesus WAS arrested and persecuted for going against the Pharisees. That may have been God's will, but it was claiming Jesus broke no laws is incorrect. The Pharisees could not have brought Christ before Pilate without a mortal premise.

You are absolutely correct but the Romans held the power and they ran the area and Caiaphas answered to them first.

He STILL was convicted and crucified for breaking MAN's law, by MAN, God's will or no ...

Which doesn't mean He actually broke the law. What, you never heard of innocent men being convicted?

 

[Cecilie1200]

But THAT is not MAN's law. He broke or was accused of and crucified for breaking MAN's law, not God's.

And it's word. He was here t fulfill the "word" of God.

That's sorta my point.

My point here is that He was tried and condemned for allegedly breaking God's law, but it was in reality man's spin on it.

He was executed because the romans wanted to execute him. There doesn't need to be any other reason more than that.

The Romans didn't want to execute Him. They didn't give a damn about Him one way or another. They just wanted to keep the peace.

What is this weird-assed anti-Roman hatred you've got going, and why are you wasting our time on it?

 

[Gadawg73]

Jesus was not persecuted and killed for not obeying the laws. He was persecuted and killed because it was the will of God for Him to be. One of the things the religious leaders of His day hated most about Jesus was that they couldn't find any legitimate legal reason to attack Him.

Good grief, the more you talk, the worse that "spiffy" church of yours looks.

The romans didn't need a legal reason to kill jesus. They weren't a very democratic and benevolent group.

Actually, they did need a legal reason, because they were generally pretty good about abiding by their own laws and policies. That's how they remained such a powerful, far-flung empire for so long. Admittedly, they weren't the kindest of taskmasters, but they kept order well. In this case, their policy was to default to the laws and leaders of the governed areas in order to keep peace. The Jewish leaders insisted, so the Romans carried out their policy. But it's unlikely the Romans would have killed Him just for the hell of it.

Close but no.
The Romans held all the power so why did they need a legal reason? They wouldn't follow ANY religous law, much less JEWISH law or authority.
It was Jewish authority under Caiaphas that had Jesus arrested and then convicted. All the Romans did was go along with it because 500,000 Jews were in town for Passover and they would have done ANYTHING to maintain order and control.