A Question Of Integrity Or A Time For Me To Shut Up

[NATO AIR]

good morning everyone, for those of you vets, i could really use a moment of your time to fill a confused e-4 in on what he should do

My workcenter has had a change of leadership in the past 2 months. The former LPO (leading petty officer for all non-squids) was "relieved" (fired actually) for continued and disasterous incompetence, inability and all around failure. However, this E-6 has been kept in the workcenter, been allowed to remain the manager of our workcenter's program,and he is the supervisor of the administration side, which is where I'm working.

We have important items that have needed to be shipped for the past several months (Item A), as well as other important items that have needed to be shipped for the past few weeks (Item B).

Because of the former LPO's poor management, I was routinely prevented from shipping ITEM A for quite a while. I was ordered to focus on other areas. The new LPO (another e-6) had it brought to his attention that ITEM A had not yet been shipped, and he subsequently ordered me to ship ITEM A on my own shift and not wait for the former LPO to ship it.

Today, I finished shipping the last pieces of ITEM A, and was ambushed afterwards upon return to the ship by the former LPO, who accused me of insubordination, disrespect, etc etc, because I had not shipped his ITEM B (which he is totally responsible for on his shift, unless he happens to request/order me to help him on my seperate shift, which he had not, though he claims he intended to).

The former LPO then dropped a nuclear bomb at the end of his tirade, "I don't need any help bringing down this workcenter, I am perfectly capable of doing that myself". The prideful ass he is, I did not take this as self-depreciating, but a threat that he would attempt just that (bring down the workcenter by screwing up the admin side).

I want to tell our new LPO about this, but I am wary about overstepping my bounds as an e-4 telling an e-6 that another e-6 (under his command no less) made a threat like this. I do not want to be starting a fracas over this idiot's hurt pride, but I do think he needs to know. So do I tell my new LPO in the morning or do I keep my mouth shut?

(Part of the hesitation here is the sad state of affairs on my ship. All too often, events get way out of control very fast and sooner than later 0-5's and above are involved basically telling e-8's and e-9's (not to mention the lead e-6 involved) how they want it handled and how it will be done)

 

[dilloduck]

good morning everyone, for those of you vets, i could really use a moment of your time to fill a confused e-4 in on what he should do

My workcenter has had a change of leadership in the past 2 months. The former LPO (leading petty officer for all non-squids) was "relieved" (fired actually) for continued and disasterous incompetence, inability and all around failure. However, this E-6 has been kept in the workcenter, been allowed to remain the manager of our workcenter's program,and he is the supervisor of the administration side, which is where I'm working.

We have important items that have needed to be shipped for the past several months (Item A), as well as other important items that have needed to be shipped for the past few weeks (Item B).

Because of the former LPO's poor management, I was routinely prevented from shipping ITEM A for quite a while. I was ordered to focus on other areas. The new LPO (another e-6) had it brought to his attention that ITEM A had not yet been shipped, and he subsequently ordered me to ship ITEM A on my own shift and not wait for the former LPO to ship it.

Today, I finished shipping the last pieces of ITEM A, and was ambushed afterwards upon return to the ship by the former LPO, who accused me of insubordination, disrespect, etc etc, because I had not shipped his ITEM B (which he is totally responsible for on his shift, unless he happens to request/order me to help him on my seperate shift, which he had not, though he claims he intended to).

The former LPO then dropped a nuclear bomb at the end of his tirade, "I don't need any help bringing down this workcenter, I am perfectly capable of doing that myself". The prideful ass he is, I did not take this as self-depreciating, but a threat that he would attempt just that (bring down the workcenter by screwing up the admin side).

I want to tell our new LPO about this, but I am wary about overstepping my bounds as an e-4 telling an e-6 that another e-6 (under his command no less) made a threat like this. I do not want to be starting a fracas over this idiot's hurt pride, but I do think he needs to know. So do I tell my new LPO in the morning or do I keep my mouth shut?

(Part of the hesitation here is the sad state of affairs on my ship. All too often, events get way out of control very fast and sooner than later 0-5's and above are involved basically telling e-8's and e-9's (not to mention the lead e-6 involved) how they want it handled and how it will be done)

Sorry Nato but it sounds like a case of having to pick your own poison and I am always hesitant to make suggestions in these situations. It's all up to which battle you feel better about fighting and which consequences you fell like living with.

 

[Fmr jarhead]

Keep your head down, don't make eye contact and do what is expected of you.

Not really.....workplace politics are a pain, no matter if they are civilian or military. Is there any chance of personal contact with the former boss, away from work, where you may be able to talk with him more personally? If not, and I were in your position, I would definitely speak with the NEW LPO and fill him in (but ask to speak personally...not under the auspices of work) When I was in the Corps, I had occassion to ask permission to speak personally (not professionally) with several of our pilots (and shop OIC's) about some mutual issues we were having, and it worked out, after our conversation.

It is your duty to notify the chain of command of weakness and threats to completing your duty, but it must be done in a professional matter, and there should be no personal vendetta involved, or there will be hell to pay.

I am anxious to hear what others have to say as well.

Best of luck to you.

 

[NATO AIR]

thank you dillo and fmr jarhead... i'm leaving this workcenter as soon as we deploy (heh, not even the Chinese know that one this time), but what a fricking problem to develop at the end....

i HATE office politics!

 

[dmp]

good morning everyone, for those of you vets, i could really use a moment of your time to fill a confused e-4 in on what he should do

My workcenter has had a change of leadership in the past 2 months. The former LPO (leading petty officer for all non-squids) was "relieved" (fired actually) for continued and disasterous incompetence, inability and all around failure. However, this E-6 has been kept in the workcenter, been allowed to remain the manager of our workcenter's program,and he is the supervisor of the administration side, which is where I'm working.

We have important items that have needed to be shipped for the past several months (Item A), as well as other important items that have needed to be shipped for the past few weeks (Item B).

Because of the former LPO's poor management, I was routinely prevented from shipping ITEM A for quite a while. I was ordered to focus on other areas. The new LPO (another e-6) had it brought to his attention that ITEM A had not yet been shipped, and he subsequently ordered me to ship ITEM A on my own shift and not wait for the former LPO to ship it.

Today, I finished shipping the last pieces of ITEM A, and was ambushed afterwards upon return to the ship by the former LPO, who accused me of insubordination, disrespect, etc etc, because I had not shipped his ITEM B (which he is totally responsible for on his shift, unless he happens to request/order me to help him on my seperate shift, which he had not, though he claims he intended to).

The former LPO then dropped a nuclear bomb at the end of his tirade, "I don't need any help bringing down this workcenter, I am perfectly capable of doing that myself". The prideful ass he is, I did not take this as self-depreciating, but a threat that he would attempt just that (bring down the workcenter by screwing up the admin side).

I want to tell our new LPO about this, but I am wary about overstepping my bounds as an e-4 telling an e-6 that another e-6 (under his command no less) made a threat like this. I do not want to be starting a fracas over this idiot's hurt pride, but I do think he needs to know. So do I tell my new LPO in the morning or do I keep my mouth shut?

(Part of the hesitation here is the sad state of affairs on my ship. All too often, events get way out of control very fast and sooner than later 0-5's and above are involved basically telling e-8's and e-9's (not to mention the lead e-6 involved) how they want it handled and how it will be done)

The E6 who tore into you is a piece of shit; at least as far as what it means to be the rank he is. Frankly, all you had to tell him was: "(Insert however you address a PO), Petty Officer (Insert name of guy who instructed you to ship Item A) instructed me to ship Item A during my shift. If you have an issue with the instruction I received, please address those concerns with him/her."

If that PO was worth two shits, he'd have said "Right - Thanks." And that would have been the end of it.

Talk to the PO who instructed you to ship. Explain that by following his instructions, you were jumped on. By carrying out the lawful instruction/guidence of him you were in fact, acting 'as' him. The PO who tore into you was in fact tearing into the other PO by proxy. They need to work that out, and not place you in the middle.

If the PO who told you to ship Item A doesn't cover you; or backs down, run the issue up the chain of concern/Support Channels, addressing the facts.

It's wrong for you to have to deal with such intimidation/bs on the job. It hurts the entire team.


Good luck.

 

[5stringJeff]

-=d=-'s advice is perfect. The only other thing I would do is to make sure you are doing all your duties to the best of your abilities, so that no one can say, "He's just a dirtbag, ignore his complaints."

And as a former officer, I would hope the NCOs would be able to clear this up without getting officers involved - unless the petty officer needed some officer involvement in his life.

 

[CSM]

I have to go with =d= on this. E-4s tend to get squashed between the dancinf elephants so to speak. Notify the new LPO of what occured and then step out of the way....

 

[no1tovote4]

good morning everyone, for those of you vets, i could really use a moment of your time to fill a confused e-4 in on what he should do

My workcenter has had a change of leadership in the past 2 months. The former LPO (leading petty officer for all non-squids) was "relieved" (fired actually) for continued and disasterous incompetence, inability and all around failure. However, this E-6 has been kept in the workcenter, been allowed to remain the manager of our workcenter's program,and he is the supervisor of the administration side, which is where I'm working.

We have important items that have needed to be shipped for the past several months (Item A), as well as other important items that have needed to be shipped for the past few weeks (Item B).

Because of the former LPO's poor management, I was routinely prevented from shipping ITEM A for quite a while. I was ordered to focus on other areas. The new LPO (another e-6) had it brought to his attention that ITEM A had not yet been shipped, and he subsequently ordered me to ship ITEM A on my own shift and not wait for the former LPO to ship it.

Today, I finished shipping the last pieces of ITEM A, and was ambushed afterwards upon return to the ship by the former LPO, who accused me of insubordination, disrespect, etc etc, because I had not shipped his ITEM B (which he is totally responsible for on his shift, unless he happens to request/order me to help him on my seperate shift, which he had not, though he claims he intended to).

The former LPO then dropped a nuclear bomb at the end of his tirade, "I don't need any help bringing down this workcenter, I am perfectly capable of doing that myself". The prideful ass he is, I did not take this as self-depreciating, but a threat that he would attempt just that (bring down the workcenter by screwing up the admin side).

I want to tell our new LPO about this, but I am wary about overstepping my bounds as an e-4 telling an e-6 that another e-6 (under his command no less) made a threat like this. I do not want to be starting a fracas over this idiot's hurt pride, but I do think he needs to know. So do I tell my new LPO in the morning or do I keep my mouth shut?

(Part of the hesitation here is the sad state of affairs on my ship. All too often, events get way out of control very fast and sooner than later 0-5's and above are involved basically telling e-8's and e-9's (not to mention the lead e-6 involved) how they want it handled and how it will be done)

I would suggest talking with the Chaplain on your ship, or another officer that is unconcerned and not directly in your line. Ask specifically for advise before talking, and stress that you are not attempting to report anything, just find out what would be the best way to handle the situation. Find somebody you respect and ask advise there.

How long has the new LPO had the job? Since it seems like it was a short period you really should give the man a heads up. He should also know that the man is attempting to override his orders with obsequiousness and badgering his POs on separate shifts that he is not in charge of. However the best way to broach the subject with him would be better left to wiser heads.

 

[NATO AIR]

thank you all....

i think the call to inform and then step out of the way is definitely the best way to avoid getting knocked while doing the right thing at the same time.

Thank you again everyone.

 

[no1tovote4]

thank you all....

i think the call to inform and then step out of the way is definitely the best way to avoid getting knocked while doing the right thing at the same time.

Thank you again everyone.

IMO E-4 was the most difficult rank. You had responsibility and action together. E-5 was the best rank, you get to be a pass-along man with no direct responsibilities. Get that next rank and just be the buck passer for a while, you will enjoy the job so much more.

 

[NATO AIR]

IMO E-4 was the most difficult rank. You had responsibility and action together. E-5 was the best rank, you get to be a pass-along man with no direct responsibilities. Get that next rank and just be the buck passer for a while, you will enjoy the job so much more.

E-4 at this command is no different from E-3 and below.
When I was TAD with the Marines, I was shocked at how much more they involved me and expected me to jump as a leader (not a bad thing, just a surprise)
E-5 would be nice, if anything just so I could take a stand for my people more without risking my "blue" liberty card (overnight liberty pass for e-4 and below, without it, you're a "white" card holder, confined to the ship after midnight)

 

[dmp]

Just so we are clear -

E1, E2, E5 - those aren't ranks...they are pay grades.

PVT, PV2, SGT - those are 'ranks'.

I knew plenty of E5s and E6s who were 'not' Sergeants by their actions...they did not live their rank. They were worthless leaders. Made me wish the Army would have brought back Specialist5, 6, 7, 8, etc...Then, you'd see the E3 or E4 who would jump up, take charge and actually 'lead'.

Corporal was my favourite Rank...CPLs tended to be bad-ass because they had and used the same Authority as any other NCO, yet didn't get the pay. They tend to be soldiers who want it. They want and believe in their jobs - to be Professional. To be Leaders.

 

[no1tovote4]

Just so we are clear -

E1, E2, E5 - those aren't ranks...they are pay grades.

PVT, PV2, SGT - those are 'ranks'.

I knew plenty of E5s and E6s who were 'not' Sergeants by their actions...they did not live their rank. They were worthless leaders. Made me wish the Army would have brought back Specialist5, 6, 7, 8, etc...Then, you'd see the E3 or E4 who would jump up, take charge and actually 'lead'.

Corporal was my favourite Rank...CPLs tended to be bad-ass because they had and used the same Authority as any other NCO, yet didn't get the pay. They tend to be soldiers who want it. They want and believe in their jobs - to be Professional. To be Leaders.

Right, but when speaking with people from multiple services it is easier to speak of the grade as the rank. Everybody understands E-6, not everybody understands PO1. Rather than constantly saying things like, "He was a CPO (E-7 for you other services)", it is easier to simply say E-7 to begin with.

 

[dmp]

Right, but when speaking with people from multiple services it is easier to speak of the grade as the rank. Everybody understands E-6, not everybody understands PO1. Rather than constantly saying things like, "He was a CPO (E-7 for you other services)", it is easier to simply say E-7 to begin with.

Then you say "What grade was he?"

E7.

 

[no1tovote4]

Then you say "What grade was he?"

E7.

Sounds like splitting hairs to me. By saying somebody is an E7 you can tell what rank they are. If I told most people on the board that I was a CTIPO3 almost nobody would know what I was talking about except those in the Navy. Easier to speak of their rating than their rank.

 

[5stringJeff]

Then you say "What grade was he?"

E7.

Stupid GS-11 nitpicker...

 

[dmp]

Sounds like splitting hairs to me. By saying somebody is an E7 you can tell what rank they are. If I told most people on the board that I was a CTIPO3 almost nobody would know what I was talking about except those in the Navy. Easier to speak of their rating than their rank.

You missed my point.

Again -

E1, E2, E5 - those aren't ranks...they are pay grades.

PVT, PV2, SGT - those are 'ranks'.

I knew plenty of E5s and E6s who were 'not' Sergeants by their actions...they did not live their rank. They were worthless leaders. Made me wish the Army would have brought back Specialist5, 6, 7, 8, etc...Then, you'd see the E3 or E4 who would jump up, take charge and actually 'lead'.

People aren't NCOs simply because they've achieved a paygrade.

 

[no1tovote4]

You missed my point.

Again -



People aren't NCOs simply because they've achieved a paygrade.

You missed my point. You are splitting hairs. I will correct myself in the future and say rate when using E-5 rather than rank, but the meaning was clear regardless.

 

[no1tovote4]

E-4 at this command is no different from E-3 and below.
When I was TAD with the Marines, I was shocked at how much more they involved me and expected me to jump as a leader (not a bad thing, just a surprise)
E-5 would be nice, if anything just so I could take a stand for my people more without risking my "blue" liberty card (overnight liberty pass for e-4 and below, without it, you're a "white" card holder, confined to the ship after midnight)

Right. E-4 gives you all the responsibility for what goes wrong without changing your job. This is usually where the shit-ball stops once it begins to roll. I didn't like being that target. E-5 was just right. Too bad I didn't last too long as an E-5. LOL.

 

[dmp]

You missed my point. You are splitting hairs. I will correct myself in the future and say rate when using E-5 rather than rank, but the meaning was clear regardless.

It's not that hard to understand...so..once more:

"There is a BIG difference between a soldier who is an E5, and a true 'Sergeant'"

I can't explain it further...Not sure why it bothers you.