A question for the lawyers and wannabe lawyers

[manifold]

The Entwistle case got me curious about something.

As far as home sales go, is there a legal disclosure requirement regarding knowledge that someone had been murdered in the house?

 

[AtlasShrieked]

The Entwistle case got me curious about something.

As far as home sales go, is there a legal disclosure requirement regarding knowledge that someone had been murdered in the house?

I doubt it. But those would be state laws, no? I guess if asked and and a case could be proved a realtor lied about the knowledge, the realtor could be gone after locally over a licensing issue in regards ethics. but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a judgement on a case like ... not from a local board or a state or a committee of other lawyers

 

[William Joyce]

Nah. Not unless you could show this somehow breaches a warranty. Rationally, there's no issue. The fact of murder in the house doesn't affect its quality (unless blood soaked into the floor!), it's just a mental thing. Courts are reluctant to go there.

 

[manu1959]

in california the answer is yes.....you need to disclose it....

 

[Angel Heart]

You don't have to in Oregon:

Equity Builders Realty - Portland Oregon real estate residential, land, multi-family and commercial

"Material fact" means information that substantially adversely affects the value of the property or a party's ability to perform its obligations in a real estate transaction, or operates to materially impair or defeat the purpose of the transaction. The fact or suspicion that the property, or any neighboring property, is or was the site of a murder, suicide or other death, rape or other sex crime, assault or other violent crime, robbery or burglary, illegal drug activity, gang-related activity, political or religious activity, or other act, occurrence, or use not adversely affecting the physical condition of or title to the property is not a material fact.

 

[manu1959]

You don't have to in Oregon:

Equity Builders Realty - Portland Oregon real estate residential, land, multi-family and commercial

i i ask you if someone was murdered in your house and lie......you will lose in court.....

 

[jillian]

i i ask you if someone was murdered in your house and lie......you will lose in court.....

depends on whether it was a material misrepresentation...which would depend on what one is required to disclose during a home sale, i'd think. but it might differ state to state, and in fact, probably does.

 

[Angel Heart]

i i ask you if someone was murdered in your house and lie......you will lose in court.....

That's if I knew about it. You would have to prove that. However, in Oregon I don't need to put it in open disclosure.

BTW, I don't own a house. I'm looking however. If I found out a murder took place in the house, I would use it as leverage to get a lower price.

 

[editec]

As far as I can see, the only thing that a real estate agent must report is KNOWN DEFICIENCIES to the PROPERTY.

The fact that somebody was murdered in that house is not a recognizable deficiency of the property.

 

[Yurt]

depends on whether it was a material misrepresentation...which would depend on what one is required to disclose during a home sale, i'd think. but it might differ state to state, and in fact, probably does.

if the seller lied, then the buyer purchased somelthing not contemplated by the parties, no meeting of the minds, no K, manu is right

 

[jillian]

if the seller lied, then the buyer purchased somelthing not contemplated by the parties, no meeting of the minds, no K, manu is right

interesting. did you learn that from Hawkins v McGee? Cause you certainly didn't learn it from doing transactional real estate.

 

[Yurt]

interesting. did you learn that from Hawkins v McGee? Cause you certainly didn't learn it from doing transactional real estate.

you're kidding, if its reduced to writing, you're saying manu would lose...? it is an express condition and all manu has to say is: it is material to me, against my beliefs, whatever...do alot of CA transactional work? why do you think it is a non winner?

edit:

even CAR advises sellers to report a death in the house that occurred more than years prior if the buyer asks, probably prudent, for the reasons i mentioned.

 

[jillian]

I stand by what I said. It would depend on what the state considers a *material* misrespresentation.... and is likely to differ state by state.

You do remember that from your contracts class, right? MATERIAL misrepresentation....

talk to me after you've done a few real estate deals.

 

[Yurt]

(Cal. Civ. § 1710.2)

1710.2. (a) No cause of action arises against an owner of real
property or his or her agent, or any agent of a transferee of real
property, for the failure to disclose to the transferee the
occurrence of an occupant's death upon the real property or the
manner of death where the death has occurred more than three years
prior to the date the transferee offers to purchase, lease, or rent
the real property, or that an occupant of that property was afflicted
with, or died from, Human T-Lymphotropic Virus Type
III/Lymphadenopathy-Associated Virus. As used in this section,
"agent" includes any person licensed pursuant to Part 1 (commencing
with Section 10000) of Division 4 of the Business and Professions
Code. As used in this section, "transferee" includes a purchaser,
lessee, or renter of real property.
(b) It is the intention of the Legislature to occupy the field of
regulation of disclosure related to deaths occurring upon real
property and of AIDS in situations affecting the transfer of real
property or any estate or interest in real property.
(c) This section shall not be construed to alter the law relating
to disclosure pertaining to any other physical or mental condition or
disease, and this section shall not relieve any owner or agent of
any obligation to disclose the physical condition of the premises.
(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to immunize an
owner or his or her agent from making an intentional
misrepresentation in response to a direct inquiry from a transferee
or a prospective transferee of real property, concerning deaths on
the real property.

it seems pretty clear to me that manu wins. still stand by what you said...and of course, that is why i mentioned material misrep

i guess you don't practice much real estate transactional law...

 

[jillian]

That's cali, cookie... I said it could differ state by state. And there's a reason I didn't get more specific.... it's because I wouldn't have a clue what the law on the subject is in Cali... or Oregon...yadda, yadda....

But I can tell you that material misrepresention is a general standard.


You having comprehension problems?

BTW, you might want to check your local ethics rules about purporting to give blanket answers to that type of question on the internet.

just a little friendly advice.

 

[Yurt]

That's cali, cookie... I said it could differ state by state. And there's a reason I didn't get more specific.... it's because I wouldn't have a clue what the law on the subject is in Cali... or Oregon...yadda, yadda....

But I can tell you that material misrepresention is a general standard.


You having comprehension problems?

BTW, you might want to check your local ethics rules about purporting to give blanket answers to that type of question on the internet.

just a little friendly advice.

it wasn't legal advice, i don't advertise myself as an attorney...but hey, i guess its ok for you to give your legal "thoughts" though...thanks for the friendly advice.

i already mentioned your material misrep, did you read my post, i said all the person has to say is...it is material to me, end of story....

 

[jillian]

okie dokie....

you go around telling someone they can get out of a contract if they find out someone lies about someone being killed in it.

hope that works out for ya.

 

[Foxfyre]

In New Mexico you don't have to disclose anything, including a murder in the house, unless the prospective buyer asks. If they ask about anything you know about the house, however, full disclosure is a requirement.

 

[Yurt]

okie dokie....

you go around telling someone they can get out of a contract if they find out someone lies about someone being killed in it.

hope that works out for ya.

be careful what you are saying i did. i never told anyone to do anything. i am familiar with the rules in CA and operate within such perimeters. there is not a reasonable expection for anyone on this site or any site that me giving my two cents on a matter is legal advice or a formation of an attorney client relationship.

you gave your advice, i said thanks...do not accuse me of giving legal advice or accuse me of telling someone they can get out of contract...just some friendly advice, and i am sure you are aware of accusing someone regarding their profession.....

 

[Anguille]

The Entwistle case got me curious about something.

As far as home sales go, is there a legal disclosure requirement regarding knowledge that someone had been murdered in the house?

Is the next question concerning poltergeists and knowledge thereof?