a new party

[progressive hunter]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

we have discussed it and determined your idea sucks,,,

now youre just mad you realized youre a fascist idiot,,,

Well, at least I don't have to waste time trying to take her seriously any more. It's always so tedious, waiting for leftists to inevitably reveal themselves as pants-wetting crybabies. A bit disappointing, though. I can remember when the left had an A team that could at least pretend to be grownups; now they start straight from the farm league every time.

when ever they say they want to discuss something it means shut up while I tell you what to do,,,

 

[Indeependent]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

I just heard, "You just want to disagree, instead of telling me how right I am. I can't discuss with someone who refuses to agree with me, so I'm running away."

And this is why we don't have reasonable discussions about "moving forward". You have just demonstrated that conservatives are not the problem; YOU are the problem.

Buh-bye, little Marie Antoinette. Enjoy the cake, and let me know if you ever grow up enough to leave your safe space.

I wonder if she knows anything about Home Economics, let alone how to manage a business or an industry.

 

[Cecilie1200]

We better come together on something, the gridlock is hurting us all.

Not really. Our system is actually designed for gridlock. It's a feature, not a bug. The intention is for change to come slowly, and only after a lot of the people are convinced it's a good idea.

The Senate was designed for that. We have a bi- partisan group working on a bill. McConnell has gone from absolutely no, he will not bring the bill up to, we can pass a small bill now, a bigger one in the new Congress. He said that today. That is progress.

The whole system is designed for it, not just the Senate. You think a crowd of 400+ elected representatives was designed for streamlining things? A three-branch government with multiple checks and balances between the groups was intended to be a bullet train to making changes, was it?

And don't even talk to me about "Oh, McConnell is obstructing all by himself, the HUMANITY!" if you haven't said a word about Nancy Pelosi.

McConnell is now beginning to relent. So is Pelosi. Helped by a bi-partisan group in both the House and Senate.

Only because Pelosi might lose her power. I have no respect for her over her actions the last year. McConnell the same as Reid.

Pelosi has announced this is her last term. I am not here to argue politics. I am here to discuss solutions for our problems.

Sorry, honey, but you can't do that without discussing politics, because politics are nothing more or less than how people do things as a group. It may sound high-minded and lofty, but it's ultimately a meaningless phrase to say, "I want to discuss solutions, not politics." Can you discuss solutions without discussing the balance between what I believe the problems are and how they should be addressed and what you say they are and how they should be addressed? No, you can't, and that balance is politics.

I have yet to read what you think our problems are.

That's because you have yet to ask me.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Why do people always jump to, "You want the market to deal with issues, that means you want NO GOVERNMENT!!!"? Only a very great fool thinks he can have capitalism and anarchy at the same time.

Of course, you're also apparently leaping to the conclusion that Indee agrees with you that "Trump is a bad man, because I don't like him!" I didn't see him agree with your gratuitous and unproven insults to Trump at all. Perhaps you could show me where he did.

I would also like to see the evidence for your confident assertion that "People turned to Biden because he's so bipartisan". Seems to me that you think Biden won=my worldview is completely correct, and everyone agrees with it. The Republican Party also has no need to "put itself back together", unless this is also an assumption on your part that they're in disarray because they don't agree with you.

And then there's the final assumption that the only reason people could disagree with you is because they're "mired in anger". Sounds to me like you need to spend less time listening to your own self-flattery in a mirror and more time listening to other people.

I have a great question for you. Why did so many prominent Republicans back Biden over Trump? Are they all corrupt, did not like Trump because he upset their gravy train or did they honestly see he was far from a Conservative, just destructive and destroying their party?

As an honest Conservative you can answer that question for those of us on the other side.

Well, take a look at the "prominent Republicans" who did so. Every damned one of them is a long-time career politician or bureaucrat (or, in the case of Cindy McCain, the wife of a long-time career politician) with a vested interest in returning to the days of business-as-usual that Trump termed "the swamp" and declared war on. And not a one of them is anything like an actual, ideological conservative, even aside from the fact that - as I've said before - no ideological conservative could ever vote for a candidate whose stated positions are the complete opposite of everything conservatives stand for, much less publicly trumpet doing so and pretend it's "for the good of the nation".

Those people weren't worried about Trump "destroying" the party; they were pissed at him taking the party away from them.

If you don't believe me, please name me one of these "prominent Republicans" that you think was a true political conservative, and we'll discuss it.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Trump is the furthest thing from a con man.
Every politician that has promised you Nirvana for the last 30 years and hasn’t delivered via their usual government intervention is a con artist.

Now grow up.

Then why does he have so many just waiting to serve him? We did not see that when Obama was in office.

I dunno about Indee, but I actually have no idea what you're talking about. Clarification?

 

[Indeependent]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Trump is the furthest thing from a con man.
Every politician that has promised you Nirvana for the last 30 years and hasn’t delivered via their usual government intervention is a con artist.

Now grow up.

Then why does he have so many just waiting to serve him? We did not see that when Obama was in office.

I would love to work for Trump to end government corruption and build up the US economy.
Democrats worshiped Obama so I have zero idea of what you're talking about.

 

[Indeependent]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Trump is the furthest thing from a con man.
Every politician that has promised you Nirvana for the last 30 years and hasn’t delivered via their usual government intervention is a con artist.

Now grow up.

Then why does he have so many just waiting to serve him? We did not see that when Obama was in office.

I dunno about Indee, but I actually have no idea what you're talking about. Clarification?

She is having a discussion with herself.

 

[Cecilie1200]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

we have discussed it and determined your idea sucks,,,

now youre just mad you realized youre a fascist idiot,,,

Well, at least I don't have to waste time trying to take her seriously any more. It's always so tedious, waiting for leftists to inevitably reveal themselves as pants-wetting crybabies. A bit disappointing, though. I can remember when the left had an A team that could at least pretend to be grownups; now they start straight from the farm league every time.

when ever they say they want to discuss something it means shut up while I tell you what to do,,,

I keep saying that the "unity" Democrats keep bleating about is the unity of slaves quietly accepting their chains and doing as their owners tell them. And people keep telling me I'm exaggerating.

 

[Cecilie1200]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

I just heard, "You just want to disagree, instead of telling me how right I am. I can't discuss with someone who refuses to agree with me, so I'm running away."

And this is why we don't have reasonable discussions about "moving forward". You have just demonstrated that conservatives are not the problem; YOU are the problem.

Buh-bye, little Marie Antoinette. Enjoy the cake, and let me know if you ever grow up enough to leave your safe space.

I wonder if she knows anything about Home Economics, let alone how to manage a business or an industry.

Not much of anyone knows about Home Economics these days, sadly.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

I'd say someone who realizes that we need both tax increases and budget cuts; that we need to raise the retirement age for Social Security; that realizes that we need to de-couple health insurance and employers; that we need to come to terms with the shortcomings of the geniuses that founded our nation (both personal and civic-wise) and admit that our constitution is not built for 2020. That we need to take care of anyone under 18 and over 60 medically and give the youth a chance and the elders a dignified end.

That'd be a start to a platform I think most Americans would agree with.

I like that. Great , well thought out post. Who could disagree?

everyone....

Republicans.

Obama proposed the rise in SS retirement age. Pelosi screamed bloody murder.

I'm not really for raising the retirement age either, but I'm not going to call you un-American or a traitor to the country for it. It's a debate wholly within the Democratic party.

And it shouldn't be. The science has people living to be older, more active, and incidentally...they want to work and often need the higher income. IT should guide the decision; not what life expectancy was in 1934.

Not everyone is living longer, the more well off someone is who doesn't depend as much on SS live longer, by about 14 years than poorer Americans.

This makes the argument for one health care for all! Of course those who want more can pay for it.

Medicare Advantage is a good example. As one of the major Insurance companies advised everyone it took 3 years for them to adjust to the ACA.

Now they would be able to afford more benefits. They have done that every year. In most cases with zero costs. The ACA should have been amended 10 years ago to fix the problems as most programs do.

The ACA helped fill gaps for pre existing conditions and those who simply have no other options for healthcare while also helping to define what exactly health insurance should cover so people are paying premiums for not much more than a band aid.

I'm not really sure ultimately what the solution for health insurance is in this country but it's most likely going to involve public and private entities.

Tying it to your employer is something I don't see continuing for much longer.

I agree, however it's a huge step to separate insurance from employment.

Yes. But it doesn't seem logical or sustainable.

Seems tough to me. Unless the government totally pays for everyone’s healthcare, it won’t happen. If the government did that, then there is no point in having insurance or private hospitals or doctors. I don’t think big insurance and pharma are going to go for that. That is the real issue. The big money controls Congress.

Its a mess. Who knew healthcare would be so hard?

its only hard for stupid people,, after 45 yrs of dealing with it I've never had a problem,,

Not really fair. Healthcare behind the scenes is incredibly complex and complicated, even for people who've worked in the field for decades.

its only complex due to governemnt intervention,,

Untrue. Government intervention makes it exponentially worse, no question. But it's complex anyway, simply because - as I told Cornball - it's an enormous industry dealing with products and services which are vitally important to its consumers.

Look, my job is subpoenaing medical records for legal cases, and even something as simple as that is like trying to sort out a giant plate of spaghetti someone dropped on the floor. I have cases that drive me mad, trying to figure out who the hell actually has the medical records, simply because of things like local clinics owned by a giant healthcare network, which farms out its medical records management to THIS third-party firm, has the x-ray records stored at one of three central nodes depending on which ZIP code you're in, and has their billing done by a company based in Canton, Ohio. Except then it turns out neither the clinic nor the healthcare network actually has the records, because the treating physician is a consulting doctor rather than a staff physician, and he maintains his own records.

And that's just one example from one small part of the healthcare industry.

 

[progressive hunter]

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

I'd say someone who realizes that we need both tax increases and budget cuts; that we need to raise the retirement age for Social Security; that realizes that we need to de-couple health insurance and employers; that we need to come to terms with the shortcomings of the geniuses that founded our nation (both personal and civic-wise) and admit that our constitution is not built for 2020. That we need to take care of anyone under 18 and over 60 medically and give the youth a chance and the elders a dignified end.

That'd be a start to a platform I think most Americans would agree with.

I like that. Great , well thought out post. Who could disagree?

everyone....

Republicans.

Obama proposed the rise in SS retirement age. Pelosi screamed bloody murder.

I'm not really for raising the retirement age either, but I'm not going to call you un-American or a traitor to the country for it. It's a debate wholly within the Democratic party.

And it shouldn't be. The science has people living to be older, more active, and incidentally...they want to work and often need the higher income. IT should guide the decision; not what life expectancy was in 1934.

Not everyone is living longer, the more well off someone is who doesn't depend as much on SS live longer, by about 14 years than poorer Americans.

This makes the argument for one health care for all! Of course those who want more can pay for it.

Medicare Advantage is a good example. As one of the major Insurance companies advised everyone it took 3 years for them to adjust to the ACA.

Now they would be able to afford more benefits. They have done that every year. In most cases with zero costs. The ACA should have been amended 10 years ago to fix the problems as most programs do.

The ACA helped fill gaps for pre existing conditions and those who simply have no other options for healthcare while also helping to define what exactly health insurance should cover so people are paying premiums for not much more than a band aid.

I'm not really sure ultimately what the solution for health insurance is in this country but it's most likely going to involve public and private entities.

Tying it to your employer is something I don't see continuing for much longer.

I agree, however it's a huge step to separate insurance from employment.

Yes. But it doesn't seem logical or sustainable.

Seems tough to me. Unless the government totally pays for everyone’s healthcare, it won’t happen. If the government did that, then there is no point in having insurance or private hospitals or doctors. I don’t think big insurance and pharma are going to go for that. That is the real issue. The big money controls Congress.

Its a mess. Who knew healthcare would be so hard?

its only hard for stupid people,, after 45 yrs of dealing with it I've never had a problem,,

Not really fair. Healthcare behind the scenes is incredibly complex and complicated, even for people who've worked in the field for decades.

its only complex due to governemnt intervention,,

Untrue. Government intervention makes it exponentially worse, no question. But it's complex anyway, simply because - as I told Cornball - it's an enormous industry dealing with products and services which are vitally important to its consumers.

Look, my job is subpoenaing medical records for legal cases, and even something as simple as that is like trying to sort out a giant plate of spaghetti someone dropped on the floor. I have cases that drive me mad, trying to figure out who the hell actually has the medical records, simply because of things like local clinics owned by a giant healthcare network, which farms out its medical records management to THIS third-party firm, has the x-ray records stored at one of three central nodes depending on which ZIP code you're in, and has their billing done by a company based in Canton, Ohio. Except then it turns out neither the clinic nor the healthcare network actually has the records, because the treating physician is a consulting doctor rather than a staff physician, and he maintains his own records.

And that's just one example from one small part of the healthcare industry.

truth is all work is hard,, in this case its the government that makes it unnecessarily hard,,

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

I'd say someone who realizes that we need both tax increases and budget cuts; that we need to raise the retirement age for Social Security; that realizes that we need to de-couple health insurance and employers; that we need to come to terms with the shortcomings of the geniuses that founded our nation (both personal and civic-wise) and admit that our constitution is not built for 2020. That we need to take care of anyone under 18 and over 60 medically and give the youth a chance and the elders a dignified end.

That'd be a start to a platform I think most Americans would agree with.

I like that. Great , well thought out post. Who could disagree?

everyone....

Republicans.

Obama proposed the rise in SS retirement age. Pelosi screamed bloody murder.

I'm not really for raising the retirement age either, but I'm not going to call you un-American or a traitor to the country for it. It's a debate wholly within the Democratic party.

And it shouldn't be. The science has people living to be older, more active, and incidentally...they want to work and often need the higher income. IT should guide the decision; not what life expectancy was in 1934.

Not everyone is living longer, the more well off someone is who doesn't depend as much on SS live longer, by about 14 years than poorer Americans.

This makes the argument for one health care for all! Of course those who want more can pay for it.

Medicare Advantage is a good example. As one of the major Insurance companies advised everyone it took 3 years for them to adjust to the ACA.

Now they would be able to afford more benefits. They have done that every year. In most cases with zero costs. The ACA should have been amended 10 years ago to fix the problems as most programs do.

The ACA helped fill gaps for pre existing conditions and those who simply have no other options for healthcare while also helping to define what exactly health insurance should cover so people are paying premiums for not much more than a band aid.

I'm not really sure ultimately what the solution for health insurance is in this country but it's most likely going to involve public and private entities.

Tying it to your employer is something I don't see continuing for much longer.

I agree, however it's a huge step to separate insurance from employment.

Yes. But it doesn't seem logical or sustainable.

Seems tough to me. Unless the government totally pays for everyone’s healthcare, it won’t happen. If the government did that, then there is no point in having insurance or private hospitals or doctors. I don’t think big insurance and pharma are going to go for that. That is the real issue. The big money controls Congress.

Its a mess. Who knew healthcare would be so hard?

its only hard for stupid people,, after 45 yrs of dealing with it I've never had a problem,,

Not really fair. Healthcare behind the scenes is incredibly complex and complicated, even for people who've worked in the field for decades.

its only complex due to governemnt intervention,,

Untrue. Government intervention makes it exponentially worse, no question. But it's complex anyway, simply because - as I told Cornball - it's an enormous industry dealing with products and services which are vitally important to its consumers.

Look, my job is subpoenaing medical records for legal cases, and even something as simple as that is like trying to sort out a giant plate of spaghetti someone dropped on the floor. I have cases that drive me mad, trying to figure out who the hell actually has the medical records, simply because of things like local clinics owned by a giant healthcare network, which farms out its medical records management to THIS third-party firm, has the x-ray records stored at one of three central nodes depending on which ZIP code you're in, and has their billing done by a company based in Canton, Ohio. Except then it turns out neither the clinic nor the healthcare network actually has the records, because the treating physician is a consulting doctor rather than a staff physician, and he maintains his own records.

And that's just one example from one small part of the healthcare industry.

truth is all work is hard,, in this case its the government that makes it unnecessarily hard,,

The point isn't that my job is hard. The point is that healthcare is big business, and like all big business, it's complicated. Add to that the fact that the human body itself is incredibly complicated, and the fact that treating its ailments and keeping it healthy gets exponentially complicated the more we learn about it. Healthcare has come a long way from the kindly town doctor who makes house calls, gives you a dose of laudanum, tells you to pray, and then takes his payment in chickens.

 

[progressive hunter]

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

I'd say someone who realizes that we need both tax increases and budget cuts; that we need to raise the retirement age for Social Security; that realizes that we need to de-couple health insurance and employers; that we need to come to terms with the shortcomings of the geniuses that founded our nation (both personal and civic-wise) and admit that our constitution is not built for 2020. That we need to take care of anyone under 18 and over 60 medically and give the youth a chance and the elders a dignified end.

That'd be a start to a platform I think most Americans would agree with.

I like that. Great , well thought out post. Who could disagree?

everyone....

Republicans.

Obama proposed the rise in SS retirement age. Pelosi screamed bloody murder.

I'm not really for raising the retirement age either, but I'm not going to call you un-American or a traitor to the country for it. It's a debate wholly within the Democratic party.

And it shouldn't be. The science has people living to be older, more active, and incidentally...they want to work and often need the higher income. IT should guide the decision; not what life expectancy was in 1934.

Not everyone is living longer, the more well off someone is who doesn't depend as much on SS live longer, by about 14 years than poorer Americans.

This makes the argument for one health care for all! Of course those who want more can pay for it.

Medicare Advantage is a good example. As one of the major Insurance companies advised everyone it took 3 years for them to adjust to the ACA.

Now they would be able to afford more benefits. They have done that every year. In most cases with zero costs. The ACA should have been amended 10 years ago to fix the problems as most programs do.

The ACA helped fill gaps for pre existing conditions and those who simply have no other options for healthcare while also helping to define what exactly health insurance should cover so people are paying premiums for not much more than a band aid.

I'm not really sure ultimately what the solution for health insurance is in this country but it's most likely going to involve public and private entities.

Tying it to your employer is something I don't see continuing for much longer.

I agree, however it's a huge step to separate insurance from employment.

Yes. But it doesn't seem logical or sustainable.

Seems tough to me. Unless the government totally pays for everyone’s healthcare, it won’t happen. If the government did that, then there is no point in having insurance or private hospitals or doctors. I don’t think big insurance and pharma are going to go for that. That is the real issue. The big money controls Congress.

Its a mess. Who knew healthcare would be so hard?

its only hard for stupid people,, after 45 yrs of dealing with it I've never had a problem,,

Not really fair. Healthcare behind the scenes is incredibly complex and complicated, even for people who've worked in the field for decades.

its only complex due to governemnt intervention,,

Untrue. Government intervention makes it exponentially worse, no question. But it's complex anyway, simply because - as I told Cornball - it's an enormous industry dealing with products and services which are vitally important to its consumers.

Look, my job is subpoenaing medical records for legal cases, and even something as simple as that is like trying to sort out a giant plate of spaghetti someone dropped on the floor. I have cases that drive me mad, trying to figure out who the hell actually has the medical records, simply because of things like local clinics owned by a giant healthcare network, which farms out its medical records management to THIS third-party firm, has the x-ray records stored at one of three central nodes depending on which ZIP code you're in, and has their billing done by a company based in Canton, Ohio. Except then it turns out neither the clinic nor the healthcare network actually has the records, because the treating physician is a consulting doctor rather than a staff physician, and he maintains his own records.

And that's just one example from one small part of the healthcare industry.

truth is all work is hard,, in this case its the government that makes it unnecessarily hard,,

The point isn't that my job is hard. The point is that healthcare is big business, and like all big business, it's complicated. Add to that the fact that the human body itself is incredibly complicated, and the fact that treating its ailments and keeping it healthy gets exponentially complicated the more we learn about it. Healthcare has come a long way from the kindly town doctor who makes house calls, gives you a dose of laudanum, tells you to pray, and then takes his payment in chickens.

I never tried to underplay the complexity in your job anymore than my job which in itself is very complex,,,

my point is everythings hard enough without the government involved let alone the way theyve made the med industry harder,,

 

[Cecilie1200]

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

I'd say someone who realizes that we need both tax increases and budget cuts; that we need to raise the retirement age for Social Security; that realizes that we need to de-couple health insurance and employers; that we need to come to terms with the shortcomings of the geniuses that founded our nation (both personal and civic-wise) and admit that our constitution is not built for 2020. That we need to take care of anyone under 18 and over 60 medically and give the youth a chance and the elders a dignified end.

That'd be a start to a platform I think most Americans would agree with.

I like that. Great , well thought out post. Who could disagree?

everyone....

Republicans.

Obama proposed the rise in SS retirement age. Pelosi screamed bloody murder.

I'm not really for raising the retirement age either, but I'm not going to call you un-American or a traitor to the country for it. It's a debate wholly within the Democratic party.

And it shouldn't be. The science has people living to be older, more active, and incidentally...they want to work and often need the higher income. IT should guide the decision; not what life expectancy was in 1934.

Not everyone is living longer, the more well off someone is who doesn't depend as much on SS live longer, by about 14 years than poorer Americans.

This makes the argument for one health care for all! Of course those who want more can pay for it.

Medicare Advantage is a good example. As one of the major Insurance companies advised everyone it took 3 years for them to adjust to the ACA.

Now they would be able to afford more benefits. They have done that every year. In most cases with zero costs. The ACA should have been amended 10 years ago to fix the problems as most programs do.

The ACA helped fill gaps for pre existing conditions and those who simply have no other options for healthcare while also helping to define what exactly health insurance should cover so people are paying premiums for not much more than a band aid.

I'm not really sure ultimately what the solution for health insurance is in this country but it's most likely going to involve public and private entities.

Tying it to your employer is something I don't see continuing for much longer.

I agree, however it's a huge step to separate insurance from employment.

Yes. But it doesn't seem logical or sustainable.

Seems tough to me. Unless the government totally pays for everyone’s healthcare, it won’t happen. If the government did that, then there is no point in having insurance or private hospitals or doctors. I don’t think big insurance and pharma are going to go for that. That is the real issue. The big money controls Congress.

Its a mess. Who knew healthcare would be so hard?

its only hard for stupid people,, after 45 yrs of dealing with it I've never had a problem,,

Not really fair. Healthcare behind the scenes is incredibly complex and complicated, even for people who've worked in the field for decades.

its only complex due to governemnt intervention,,

Untrue. Government intervention makes it exponentially worse, no question. But it's complex anyway, simply because - as I told Cornball - it's an enormous industry dealing with products and services which are vitally important to its consumers.

Look, my job is subpoenaing medical records for legal cases, and even something as simple as that is like trying to sort out a giant plate of spaghetti someone dropped on the floor. I have cases that drive me mad, trying to figure out who the hell actually has the medical records, simply because of things like local clinics owned by a giant healthcare network, which farms out its medical records management to THIS third-party firm, has the x-ray records stored at one of three central nodes depending on which ZIP code you're in, and has their billing done by a company based in Canton, Ohio. Except then it turns out neither the clinic nor the healthcare network actually has the records, because the treating physician is a consulting doctor rather than a staff physician, and he maintains his own records.

And that's just one example from one small part of the healthcare industry.

truth is all work is hard,, in this case its the government that makes it unnecessarily hard,,

The point isn't that my job is hard. The point is that healthcare is big business, and like all big business, it's complicated. Add to that the fact that the human body itself is incredibly complicated, and the fact that treating its ailments and keeping it healthy gets exponentially complicated the more we learn about it. Healthcare has come a long way from the kindly town doctor who makes house calls, gives you a dose of laudanum, tells you to pray, and then takes his payment in chickens.

I never tried to underplay the complexity in your job anymore than my job which in itself is very complex,,,

my point is everythings hard enough without the government involved let alone the way theyve made the med industry harder,,

Again, not talking about my job. I'm talking about the fact that the healthcare industry is a big and very complex enterprise. (Technically, by the way, I work in the legal industry, not healthcare.)

And I don't deny that the government makes things more difficult. I'm just saying that it's not the only factor having that effect, and it's not fair to suggest that healthcare would be simple without government.

 

[progressive hunter]

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

I'd say someone who realizes that we need both tax increases and budget cuts; that we need to raise the retirement age for Social Security; that realizes that we need to de-couple health insurance and employers; that we need to come to terms with the shortcomings of the geniuses that founded our nation (both personal and civic-wise) and admit that our constitution is not built for 2020. That we need to take care of anyone under 18 and over 60 medically and give the youth a chance and the elders a dignified end.

That'd be a start to a platform I think most Americans would agree with.

I like that. Great , well thought out post. Who could disagree?

everyone....

Republicans.

Obama proposed the rise in SS retirement age. Pelosi screamed bloody murder.

I'm not really for raising the retirement age either, but I'm not going to call you un-American or a traitor to the country for it. It's a debate wholly within the Democratic party.

And it shouldn't be. The science has people living to be older, more active, and incidentally...they want to work and often need the higher income. IT should guide the decision; not what life expectancy was in 1934.

Not everyone is living longer, the more well off someone is who doesn't depend as much on SS live longer, by about 14 years than poorer Americans.

This makes the argument for one health care for all! Of course those who want more can pay for it.

Medicare Advantage is a good example. As one of the major Insurance companies advised everyone it took 3 years for them to adjust to the ACA.

Now they would be able to afford more benefits. They have done that every year. In most cases with zero costs. The ACA should have been amended 10 years ago to fix the problems as most programs do.

The ACA helped fill gaps for pre existing conditions and those who simply have no other options for healthcare while also helping to define what exactly health insurance should cover so people are paying premiums for not much more than a band aid.

I'm not really sure ultimately what the solution for health insurance is in this country but it's most likely going to involve public and private entities.

Tying it to your employer is something I don't see continuing for much longer.

I agree, however it's a huge step to separate insurance from employment.

Yes. But it doesn't seem logical or sustainable.

Seems tough to me. Unless the government totally pays for everyone’s healthcare, it won’t happen. If the government did that, then there is no point in having insurance or private hospitals or doctors. I don’t think big insurance and pharma are going to go for that. That is the real issue. The big money controls Congress.

Its a mess. Who knew healthcare would be so hard?

its only hard for stupid people,, after 45 yrs of dealing with it I've never had a problem,,

Not really fair. Healthcare behind the scenes is incredibly complex and complicated, even for people who've worked in the field for decades.

its only complex due to governemnt intervention,,

Untrue. Government intervention makes it exponentially worse, no question. But it's complex anyway, simply because - as I told Cornball - it's an enormous industry dealing with products and services which are vitally important to its consumers.

Look, my job is subpoenaing medical records for legal cases, and even something as simple as that is like trying to sort out a giant plate of spaghetti someone dropped on the floor. I have cases that drive me mad, trying to figure out who the hell actually has the medical records, simply because of things like local clinics owned by a giant healthcare network, which farms out its medical records management to THIS third-party firm, has the x-ray records stored at one of three central nodes depending on which ZIP code you're in, and has their billing done by a company based in Canton, Ohio. Except then it turns out neither the clinic nor the healthcare network actually has the records, because the treating physician is a consulting doctor rather than a staff physician, and he maintains his own records.

And that's just one example from one small part of the healthcare industry.

truth is all work is hard,, in this case its the government that makes it unnecessarily hard,,

The point isn't that my job is hard. The point is that healthcare is big business, and like all big business, it's complicated. Add to that the fact that the human body itself is incredibly complicated, and the fact that treating its ailments and keeping it healthy gets exponentially complicated the more we learn about it. Healthcare has come a long way from the kindly town doctor who makes house calls, gives you a dose of laudanum, tells you to pray, and then takes his payment in chickens.

I never tried to underplay the complexity in your job anymore than my job which in itself is very complex,,,

my point is everythings hard enough without the government involved let alone the way theyve made the med industry harder,,

Again, not talking about my job. I'm talking about the fact that the healthcare industry is a big and very complex enterprise. (Technically, by the way, I work in the legal industry, not healthcare.)

And I don't deny that the government makes things more difficult. I'm just saying that it's not the only factor having that effect, and it's not fair to suggest that healthcare would be simple without government.

when did I say it would be simpler without them???

 

[MaryAnne11]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Why do people always jump to, "You want the market to deal with issues, that means you want NO GOVERNMENT!!!"? Only a very great fool thinks he can have capitalism and anarchy at the same time.

Of course, you're also apparently leaping to the conclusion that Indee agrees with you that "Trump is a bad man, because I don't like him!" I didn't see him agree with your gratuitous and unproven insults to Trump at all. Perhaps you could show me where he did.

I would also like to see the evidence for your confident assertion that "People turned to Biden because he's so bipartisan". Seems to me that you think Biden won=my worldview is completely correct, and everyone agrees with it. The Republican Party also has no need to "put itself back together", unless this is also an assumption on your part that they're in disarray because they don't agree with you.

And then there's the final assumption that the only reason people could disagree with you is because they're "mired in anger". Sounds to me like you need to spend less time listening to your own self-flattery in a mirror and more time listening to other people.

I have a great question for you. Why did so many prominent Republicans back Biden over Trump? Are they all corrupt, did not like Trump because he upset their gravy train or did they honestly see he was far from a Conservative, just destructive and destroying their party?

As an honest Conservative you can answer that question for those of us on the other side.

Well, take a look at the "prominent Republicans" who did so. Every damned one of them is a long-time career politician or bureaucrat (or, in the case of Cindy McCain, the wife of a long-time career politician) with a vested interest in returning to the days of business-as-usual that Trump termed "the swamp" and declared war on. And not a one of them is anything like an actual, ideological conservative, even aside from the fact that - as I've said before - no ideological conservative could ever vote for a candidate whose stated positions are the complete opposite of everything conservatives stand for, much less publicly trumpet doing so and pretend it's "for the good of the nation".

Those people weren't worried about Trump "destroying" the party; they were pissed at him taking the party away from them.

If you don't believe me, please name me one of these "prominent Republicans" that you think was a true political conservative, and we'll discuss it.

Cindy McCain was not in Politics. Her husband was. And one of those against Trump is Steve Schmidt, John McCains Campaign Manager.

The fact remains those prominent Republicans helped elect Joe Biden.

 

[MaryAnne11]

You're gong to have to define what it is to be moderate these days. Not that you can't, I just genuinely don't know what that means anymore.

I'd say someone who realizes that we need both tax increases and budget cuts; that we need to raise the retirement age for Social Security; that realizes that we need to de-couple health insurance and employers; that we need to come to terms with the shortcomings of the geniuses that founded our nation (both personal and civic-wise) and admit that our constitution is not built for 2020. That we need to take care of anyone under 18 and over 60 medically and give the youth a chance and the elders a dignified end.

That'd be a start to a platform I think most Americans would agree with.

I like that. Great , well thought out post. Who could disagree?

everyone....

Republicans.

Obama proposed the rise in SS retirement age. Pelosi screamed bloody murder.

I'm not really for raising the retirement age either, but I'm not going to call you un-American or a traitor to the country for it. It's a debate wholly within the Democratic party.

And it shouldn't be. The science has people living to be older, more active, and incidentally...they want to work and often need the higher income. IT should guide the decision; not what life expectancy was in 1934.

Not everyone is living longer, the more well off someone is who doesn't depend as much on SS live longer, by about 14 years than poorer Americans.

This makes the argument for one health care for all! Of course those who want more can pay for it.

Medicare Advantage is a good example. As one of the major Insurance companies advised everyone it took 3 years for them to adjust to the ACA.

Now they would be able to afford more benefits. They have done that every year. In most cases with zero costs. The ACA should have been amended 10 years ago to fix the problems as most programs do.

The ACA helped fill gaps for pre existing conditions and those who simply have no other options for healthcare while also helping to define what exactly health insurance should cover so people are paying premiums for not much more than a band aid.

I'm not really sure ultimately what the solution for health insurance is in this country but it's most likely going to involve public and private entities.

Tying it to your employer is something I don't see continuing for much longer.

I agree, however it's a huge step to separate insurance from employment.

Yes. But it doesn't seem logical or sustainable.

Seems tough to me. Unless the government totally pays for everyone’s healthcare, it won’t happen. If the government did that, then there is no point in having insurance or private hospitals or doctors. I don’t think big insurance and pharma are going to go for that. That is the real issue. The big money controls Congress.

Its a mess. Who knew healthcare would be so hard?

its only hard for stupid people,, after 45 yrs of dealing with it I've never had a problem,,

Not really fair. Healthcare behind the scenes is incredibly complex and complicated, even for people who've worked in the field for decades.

its only complex due to governemnt intervention,,

Untrue. Government intervention makes it exponentially worse, no question. But it's complex anyway, simply because - as I told Cornball - it's an enormous industry dealing with products and services which are vitally important to its consumers.

Look, my job is subpoenaing medical records for legal cases, and even something as simple as that is like trying to sort out a giant plate of spaghetti someone dropped on the floor. I have cases that drive me mad, trying to figure out who the hell actually has the medical records, simply because of things like local clinics owned by a giant healthcare network, which farms out its medical records management to THIS third-party firm, has the x-ray records stored at one of three central nodes depending on which ZIP code you're in, and has their billing done by a company based in Canton, Ohio. Except then it turns out neither the clinic nor the healthcare network actually has the records, because the treating physician is a consulting doctor rather than a staff physician, and he maintains his own records.

And that's just one example from one small part of the healthcare industry.

truth is all work is hard,, in this case its the government that makes it unnecessarily hard,,

The point isn't that my job is hard. The point is that healthcare is big business, and like all big business, it's complicated. Add to that the fact that the human body itself is incredibly complicated, and the fact that treating its ailments and keeping it healthy gets exponentially complicated the more we learn about it. Healthcare has come a long way from the kindly town doctor who makes house calls, gives you a dose of laudanum, tells you to pray, and then takes his payment in chickens.

I never tried to underplay the complexity in your job anymore than my job which in itself is very complex,,,

my point is everythings hard enough without the government involved let alone the way theyve made the med industry harder,,

Again, not talking about my job. I'm talking about the fact that the healthcare industry is a big and very complex enterprise. (Technically, by the way, I work in the legal industry, not healthcare.)

And I don't deny that the government makes things more difficult. I'm just saying that it's not the only factor having that effect, and it's not fair to suggest that healthcare would be simple without government.

You are quite right that health care is a huge, complicated enterprise. Your work is an example of how complicated it is.

Right now the Health care workers are suffer along with their patients. We need to give credit to each and everyone of them, fighting to get decent equipment, watching their patients die.

I know you guys think I came back to this board to argue but I would like to think we can discuss things. I give you all credit for your hard work which must be much harder in these trying times and hope the vaccines will get us all out of this pandemic.

 

[MaryAnne11]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

we have discussed it and determined your idea sucks,,,

now youre just mad you realized youre a fascist idiot,,,

Well, at least I don't have to waste time trying to take her seriously any more. It's always so tedious, waiting for leftists to inevitably reveal themselves as pants-wetting crybabies. A bit disappointing, though. I can remember when the left had an A team that could at least pretend to be grownups; now they start straight from the farm league every time.

when ever they say they want to discuss something it means shut up while I tell you what to do,,,

I keep saying that the "unity" Democrats keep bleating about is the unity of slaves quietly accepting their chains and doing as their owners tell them. And people keep telling me I'm exaggerating.

There are ways for people to compromise, work together and solve problems but we can not do it as long as we are raging at each other.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

No need for new party. We just need a recognition and acknowledgment of what the parties have become.
The democrat party is currently the Marxist party of America. They’ve been completely overtaken by marxists, the result of a couple of generations of the Marxist influence of academia, media and popular culture.
The constituents of the current Republican Party, as well as some of its actual civil servant politicians, is a mixture of both the democrat and republican parties of the mid 20th century.
Problem is that most current white democrats are too ego-driven to realize what they’re abetting.
Soviets citizens knew they were being propagated by pravda but couldn’t stop it because of the strong arm of the government. White democrats are just too oblivious and ego-driven to recognize the current American pravda propaganda.

 

[MaryAnne11]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

How does the market handle polluting? They've been forced to clean it up. Anyway, believe COVID isn't serious, don't believe in wearing masks and climate change isn't happening regardless of what science says. Give it a rest, you're trying way too hard to be obnoxious.

I would suggest reading financial publications that describe how companies have Research & Development teams that are always working to make their overall business more efficient, both monetarily and in terms of their ecological footprint.
Yes, we all think businesses are evil, but even they want to find less expensive ways to do things.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I'm trying to encourage you to do something else other than getting your news from USMB.

I can not answer for others but you will never find me saying,” Businesses are evil!”

Matter of fact I have given credit for many businesses who are working hard to create clean energy.

Process optimization and efficiency | ExxonMobil

ExxonMobil constantly strives to improve performance and streamline our processes in order to reduce time, cost, risk and environmental impact.

corporate.exxonmobil.com

Texas Energy Sector | Texas Energy Industry | TxEDC

The Texas energy sector has seen tremendous growth due to it being a top energy production state in the United States. Learn more about the energy industry in Texas.

businessintexas.com

That is just a couple.