a new party

[Papageorgio]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Why do people always jump to, "You want the market to deal with issues, that means you want NO GOVERNMENT!!!"? Only a very great fool thinks he can have capitalism and anarchy at the same time.

Of course, you're also apparently leaping to the conclusion that Indee agrees with you that "Trump is a bad man, because I don't like him!" I didn't see him agree with your gratuitous and unproven insults to Trump at all. Perhaps you could show me where he did.

I would also like to see the evidence for your confident assertion that "People turned to Biden because he's so bipartisan". Seems to me that you think Biden won=my worldview is completely correct, and everyone agrees with it. The Republican Party also has no need to "put itself back together", unless this is also an assumption on your part that they're in disarray because they don't agree with you.

And then there's the final assumption that the only reason people could disagree with you is because they're "mired in anger". Sounds to me like you need to spend less time listening to your own self-flattery in a mirror and more time listening to other people.

I have a great question for you. Why did so many prominent Republicans back Biden over Trump? Are they all corrupt, did not like Trump because he upset their gravy train or did they honestly see he was far from a Conservative, just destructive and destroying their party?

As an honest Conservative you can answer that question for those of us on the other side.

Well, take a look at the "prominent Republicans" who did so. Every damned one of them is a long-time career politician or bureaucrat (or, in the case of Cindy McCain, the wife of a long-time career politician) with a vested interest in returning to the days of business-as-usual that Trump termed "the swamp" and declared war on. And not a one of them is anything like an actual, ideological conservative, even aside from the fact that - as I've said before - no ideological conservative could ever vote for a candidate whose stated positions are the complete opposite of everything conservatives stand for, much less publicly trumpet doing so and pretend it's "for the good of the nation".

Those people weren't worried about Trump "destroying" the party; they were pissed at him taking the party away from them.

If you don't believe me, please name me one of these "prominent Republicans" that you think was a true political conservative, and we'll discuss it.

Cindy McCain was not in Politics. Her husband was. And one of those against Trump is Steve Schmidt, John McCains Campaign Manager.

The fact remains those prominent Republicans helped elect Joe Biden.

That is why Cindy has been offered a position in the Biden administration? Seems like a political reward to me. Just sayin.

Of course she is now, but Cindy never ran for office. Did Biden choose her, or is that more media gossip?

Then why did she announce that she was voting for Biden? It seems she was using her political influence.

Because she did not like what Trump is. Are you saying a person does not have the right to vote for the candidate they choose? Her husband and Biden did not allow politics to get in the way of their long time friendship.

I’m trying to find where I said that you can’t vote for the person you choose. Not even close to saying that. Why would you think I said that? Strange.

You expect HJ to actually read an entire post?

I don’t expect anything from them, they knee jerk, make stupid cookie cutter responses and won’t touch the real questions that would get to the bottom of the issues. Mary and Happy don’t want to touch the real issues, such as greed, spending and debt, they like most Americans want more and more. How can we fix the healthcare issue when we can’t control spending? How can we secure our nations future when we are falling behind other nations because we can’t control spending.

But they are stuck in superficial nonsense.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Why do people always jump to, "You want the market to deal with issues, that means you want NO GOVERNMENT!!!"? Only a very great fool thinks he can have capitalism and anarchy at the same time.

Of course, you're also apparently leaping to the conclusion that Indee agrees with you that "Trump is a bad man, because I don't like him!" I didn't see him agree with your gratuitous and unproven insults to Trump at all. Perhaps you could show me where he did.

I would also like to see the evidence for your confident assertion that "People turned to Biden because he's so bipartisan". Seems to me that you think Biden won=my worldview is completely correct, and everyone agrees with it. The Republican Party also has no need to "put itself back together", unless this is also an assumption on your part that they're in disarray because they don't agree with you.

And then there's the final assumption that the only reason people could disagree with you is because they're "mired in anger". Sounds to me like you need to spend less time listening to your own self-flattery in a mirror and more time listening to other people.

I have a great question for you. Why did so many prominent Republicans back Biden over Trump? Are they all corrupt, did not like Trump because he upset their gravy train or did they honestly see he was far from a Conservative, just destructive and destroying their party?

As an honest Conservative you can answer that question for those of us on the other side.

Well, take a look at the "prominent Republicans" who did so. Every damned one of them is a long-time career politician or bureaucrat (or, in the case of Cindy McCain, the wife of a long-time career politician) with a vested interest in returning to the days of business-as-usual that Trump termed "the swamp" and declared war on. And not a one of them is anything like an actual, ideological conservative, even aside from the fact that - as I've said before - no ideological conservative could ever vote for a candidate whose stated positions are the complete opposite of everything conservatives stand for, much less publicly trumpet doing so and pretend it's "for the good of the nation".

Those people weren't worried about Trump "destroying" the party; they were pissed at him taking the party away from them.

If you don't believe me, please name me one of these "prominent Republicans" that you think was a true political conservative, and we'll discuss it.

Cindy McCain was not in Politics. Her husband was. And one of those against Trump is Steve Schmidt, John McCains Campaign Manager.

The fact remains those prominent Republicans helped elect Joe Biden.

She wasn't. She is now. I believe I specifically mentioned her, and that she was different from the others in that regard. But thank you for helpfully instructing me on things I already said.

I also have no idea what point you think you're making by telling me about John McCain's campaign manager. Or, for that matter, by saying, "Well, they helped Biden, so there." And then?

Some one posted that Cindy McCain was in politics. Her husband was.

You can avoid the confusion of accusing me of saying something someone else said by actually reading my post before responding to it.

Cindy McCain is not a political officeholder. She is involved in politics now, though, by virtue of having put herself forward to campaign for candidates.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

How does the market handle polluting? They've been forced to clean it up. Anyway, believe COVID isn't serious, don't believe in wearing masks and climate change isn't happening regardless of what science says. Give it a rest, you're trying way too hard to be obnoxious.

I would suggest reading financial publications that describe how companies have Research & Development teams that are always working to make their overall business more efficient, both monetarily and in terms of their ecological footprint.
Yes, we all think businesses are evil, but even they want to find less expensive ways to do things.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I'm trying to encourage you to do something else other than getting your news from USMB.

I can not answer for others but you will never find me saying,” Businesses are evil!”

Matter of fact I have given credit for many businesses who are working hard to create clean energy.

Process optimization and efficiency | ExxonMobil

ExxonMobil constantly strives to improve performance and streamline our processes in order to reduce time, cost, risk and environmental impact.

corporate.exxonmobil.com

Texas Energy Sector | Texas Energy Industry | TxEDC

The Texas energy sector has seen tremendous growth due to it being a top energy production state in the United States. Learn more about the energy industry in Texas.

businessintexas.com

That is just a couple.

Yes, but the question is, do you only consider them "not-evil" because of things they do that agree with you? Or do you consider business to not be evil in the more general, people-benefit-by-their-existence-doing-business-is-a-good-thing sense?

I would consider a business evil if their leaders were corrupt and cheating but. Even then it would be the person, not the business.

Good. The question remains, though, do you consider business in general - commerce, free trade, capitalism - to be a good or bad thing?

 

[Cecilie1200]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

we have discussed it and determined your idea sucks,,,

now youre just mad you realized youre a fascist idiot,,,

Well, at least I don't have to waste time trying to take her seriously any more. It's always so tedious, waiting for leftists to inevitably reveal themselves as pants-wetting crybabies. A bit disappointing, though. I can remember when the left had an A team that could at least pretend to be grownups; now they start straight from the farm league every time.

when ever they say they want to discuss something it means shut up while I tell you what to do,,,

I keep saying that the "unity" Democrats keep bleating about is the unity of slaves quietly accepting their chains and doing as their owners tell them. And people keep telling me I'm exaggerating.

There are ways for people to compromise, work together and solve problems but we can not do it as long as we are raging at each other.

Normally, you're correct. However, I'm not sure how you can compromise on issues where people are diametrically opposed specifically because they believe the opposite position - not the people, the position - is actively morally bad.

And the fact remains that Democrats aren't interested in compromise, and they're not talking about compromise. They're talking specifically about "We'll unify by all you deplorables shutting up and accepting how right and superior we are. Just learn to like it."

Pot/kettle. Both parties have, die hards that will not compromise for the good of the Country. But it seems a group of Senators from both parties are trying to help Americans who are devastated by the virus.

Sorry, but I didn't say "diehards who will not compromise". I said "the Democrats". As a collective group - and the Democrats are nothing if not a collective, like an anthill - Democrats have a policy of not compromising on anything . . . unless the polling tells them they won't be able to get away with it. Republicans by nature simply are not that monolithic and unified. Until recently, they also didn't have the testicular fortitude to even try to be. As someone who has been voting and following politics as a registered Republican for the last 30 years, it has been my constant despair that elected Republicans were so spineless.

 

[MaryAnne11]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

How does the market handle polluting? They've been forced to clean it up. Anyway, believe COVID isn't serious, don't believe in wearing masks and climate change isn't happening regardless of what science says. Give it a rest, you're trying way too hard to be obnoxious.

I would suggest reading financial publications that describe how companies have Research & Development teams that are always working to make their overall business more efficient, both monetarily and in terms of their ecological footprint.
Yes, we all think businesses are evil, but even they want to find less expensive ways to do things.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I'm trying to encourage you to do something else other than getting your news from USMB.

I can not answer for others but you will never find me saying,” Businesses are evil!”

Matter of fact I have given credit for many businesses who are working hard to create clean energy.

Process optimization and efficiency | ExxonMobil

ExxonMobil constantly strives to improve performance and streamline our processes in order to reduce time, cost, risk and environmental impact.

corporate.exxonmobil.com

Texas Energy Sector | Texas Energy Industry | TxEDC

The Texas energy sector has seen tremendous growth due to it being a top energy production state in the United States. Learn more about the energy industry in Texas.

businessintexas.com

That is just a couple.

Yes, but the question is, do you only consider them "not-evil" because of things they do that agree with you? Or do you consider business to not be evil in the more general, people-benefit-by-their-existence-doing-business-is-a-good-thing sense?

I would consider a business evil if their leaders were corrupt and cheating but. Even then it would be the person, not the business.

Businesses aren't necessarily corrupt, it's just that their motive is profit that may or may not align with what's best for the country. Republicans let them have their way, Libertarians pretend everyone is honest and Democrats understand that you need regulations (FWIW not all regs are good regs) and laws to keep corporations from railroading the American public.

Politicians are motivated by greed. Greed for power, greed for stature, and usually align with what is politically expedient and not what is best for the country. Look at our debt. To get debt back under control the government will need to cut spending and raise taxes on all, it would be tough and would contract the economy for a short time. No politician will do that, they will spend more and use class warfare as it is easier than doing the right thing.

Raising taxes won't contract the economy, cutting the social safety net will.

If you'd stop voting in politicians who only care about kissing corporate butt and trying to deregulate common sense we would be much better off.

Cutting the federal budget across the board would hurt the economy, but how else do you propose getting the budget under control? We can raise taxes to 100% on all Americans and not solve the debt problem because spending is out of control. We need to cut spending on everything, including corporate welfare, defense and social service programs. The only two we can’t touch are Social Security and Medicare as they are in a trust.

The second point, who did I vote for that was worried about “kissing corporate butt”? I didn’t vote for Trump or Biden, those were the two backed by big corporations. If you voted for either, you voted for big corporations.

Again, politicians and government are greedy for power and stature, and they will do what they need to, to stay in power, even at the expense of America, as they have proven, over and over.

The Federal budget will not shrink until we hurt Covid-19 under control. The problem is spending by both parties. The last huge tax break for the wealthy made it worse. This is the first time since WW 2 the deficit is greater than GDP.

But there are many ways to cut spending the right way. Now we need to control the virus. Then we need to create good jobs,fix the economy.

I do not have the answers.

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

How does the market handle polluting? They've been forced to clean it up. Anyway, believe COVID isn't serious, don't believe in wearing masks and climate change isn't happening regardless of what science says. Give it a rest, you're trying way too hard to be obnoxious.

I would suggest reading financial publications that describe how companies have Research & Development teams that are always working to make their overall business more efficient, both monetarily and in terms of their ecological footprint.
Yes, we all think businesses are evil, but even they want to find less expensive ways to do things.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I'm trying to encourage you to do something else other than getting your news from USMB.

I can not answer for others but you will never find me saying,” Businesses are evil!”

Matter of fact I have given credit for many businesses who are working hard to create clean energy.

Process optimization and efficiency | ExxonMobil

ExxonMobil constantly strives to improve performance and streamline our processes in order to reduce time, cost, risk and environmental impact.

corporate.exxonmobil.com

Texas Energy Sector | Texas Energy Industry | TxEDC

The Texas energy sector has seen tremendous growth due to it being a top energy production state in the United States. Learn more about the energy industry in Texas.

businessintexas.com

That is just a couple.

Yes, but the question is, do you only consider them "not-evil" because of things they do that agree with you? Or do you consider business to not be evil in the more general, people-benefit-by-their-existence-doing-business-is-a-good-thing sense?

I would consider a business evil if their leaders were corrupt and cheating but. Even then it would be the person, not the business.

Businesses aren't necessarily corrupt, it's just that their motive is profit that may or may not align with what's best for the country. Republicans let them have their way, Libertarians pretend everyone is honest and Democrats understand that you need regulations (FWIW not all regs are good regs) and laws to keep corporations from railroading the American public.

Politicians are motivated by greed. Greed for power, greed for stature, and usually align with what is politically expedient and not what is best for the country. Look at our debt. To get debt back under control the government will need to cut spending and raise taxes on all, it would be tough and would contract the economy for a short time. No politician will do that, they will spend more and use class warfare as it is easier than doing the right thing.

Raising taxes won't contract the economy, cutting the social safety net will.

If you'd stop voting in politicians who only care about kissing corporate butt and trying to deregulate common sense we would be much better off.

Cutting the federal budget across the board would hurt the economy, but how else do you propose getting the budget under control? We can raise taxes to 100% on all Americans and not solve the debt problem because spending is out of control. We need to cut spending on everything, including corporate welfare, defense and social service programs. The only two we can’t touch are Social Security and Medicare as they are in a trust.

The second point, who did I vote for that was worried about “kissing corporate butt”? I didn’t vote for Trump or Biden, those were the two backed by big corporations. If you voted for either, you voted for big corporations.

Again, politicians and government are greedy for power and stature, and they will do what they need to, to stay in power, even at the expense of America, as they have proven, over and over.

Reality check, the debt will outlive you. But if you want to take the economy with you then be my guest.

I know it will out live me, it will out live you and help ruin future generations. You support politicians that kiss corporate ass. Congrats!

Biden has spent 40 years kissing corporate ass.

So, according to you Biden is responsible for everything although he was 1 of a hundred. Did Biden create the trillion dollar deficit too? I could have sworn he was not in office the last 4 years.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Why do people always jump to, "You want the market to deal with issues, that means you want NO GOVERNMENT!!!"? Only a very great fool thinks he can have capitalism and anarchy at the same time.

Of course, you're also apparently leaping to the conclusion that Indee agrees with you that "Trump is a bad man, because I don't like him!" I didn't see him agree with your gratuitous and unproven insults to Trump at all. Perhaps you could show me where he did.

I would also like to see the evidence for your confident assertion that "People turned to Biden because he's so bipartisan". Seems to me that you think Biden won=my worldview is completely correct, and everyone agrees with it. The Republican Party also has no need to "put itself back together", unless this is also an assumption on your part that they're in disarray because they don't agree with you.

And then there's the final assumption that the only reason people could disagree with you is because they're "mired in anger". Sounds to me like you need to spend less time listening to your own self-flattery in a mirror and more time listening to other people.

I have a great question for you. Why did so many prominent Republicans back Biden over Trump? Are they all corrupt, did not like Trump because he upset their gravy train or did they honestly see he was far from a Conservative, just destructive and destroying their party?

As an honest Conservative you can answer that question for those of us on the other side.

Well, take a look at the "prominent Republicans" who did so. Every damned one of them is a long-time career politician or bureaucrat (or, in the case of Cindy McCain, the wife of a long-time career politician) with a vested interest in returning to the days of business-as-usual that Trump termed "the swamp" and declared war on. And not a one of them is anything like an actual, ideological conservative, even aside from the fact that - as I've said before - no ideological conservative could ever vote for a candidate whose stated positions are the complete opposite of everything conservatives stand for, much less publicly trumpet doing so and pretend it's "for the good of the nation".

Those people weren't worried about Trump "destroying" the party; they were pissed at him taking the party away from them.

If you don't believe me, please name me one of these "prominent Republicans" that you think was a true political conservative, and we'll discuss it.

Cindy McCain was not in Politics. Her husband was. And one of those against Trump is Steve Schmidt, John McCains Campaign Manager.

The fact remains those prominent Republicans helped elect Joe Biden.

That is why Cindy has been offered a position in the Biden administration? Seems like a political reward to me. Just sayin.

Of course she is now, but Cindy never ran for office. Did Biden choose her, or is that more media gossip?

Then why did she announce that she was voting for Biden? It seems she was using her political influence.

Because she did not like what Trump is. Are you saying a person does not have the right to vote for the candidate they choose? Her husband and Biden did not allow politics to get in the way of their long time friendship.

I’m trying to find where I said that you can’t vote for the person you choose. Not even close to saying that. Why would you think I said that? Strange.

You could not understand why Cindy backed Biden. I simply stated why she did!

Or, at least, the self-flattering reasons you're projecting onto her.

 

[MaryAnne11]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Why do people always jump to, "You want the market to deal with issues, that means you want NO GOVERNMENT!!!"? Only a very great fool thinks he can have capitalism and anarchy at the same time.

Of course, you're also apparently leaping to the conclusion that Indee agrees with you that "Trump is a bad man, because I don't like him!" I didn't see him agree with your gratuitous and unproven insults to Trump at all. Perhaps you could show me where he did.

I would also like to see the evidence for your confident assertion that "People turned to Biden because he's so bipartisan". Seems to me that you think Biden won=my worldview is completely correct, and everyone agrees with it. The Republican Party also has no need to "put itself back together", unless this is also an assumption on your part that they're in disarray because they don't agree with you.

And then there's the final assumption that the only reason people could disagree with you is because they're "mired in anger". Sounds to me like you need to spend less time listening to your own self-flattery in a mirror and more time listening to other people.

I have a great question for you. Why did so many prominent Republicans back Biden over Trump? Are they all corrupt, did not like Trump because he upset their gravy train or did they honestly see he was far from a Conservative, just destructive and destroying their party?

As an honest Conservative you can answer that question for those of us on the other side.

Well, take a look at the "prominent Republicans" who did so. Every damned one of them is a long-time career politician or bureaucrat (or, in the case of Cindy McCain, the wife of a long-time career politician) with a vested interest in returning to the days of business-as-usual that Trump termed "the swamp" and declared war on. And not a one of them is anything like an actual, ideological conservative, even aside from the fact that - as I've said before - no ideological conservative could ever vote for a candidate whose stated positions are the complete opposite of everything conservatives stand for, much less publicly trumpet doing so and pretend it's "for the good of the nation".

Those people weren't worried about Trump "destroying" the party; they were pissed at him taking the party away from them.

If you don't believe me, please name me one of these "prominent Republicans" that you think was a true political conservative, and we'll discuss it.

Cindy McCain was not in Politics. Her husband was. And one of those against Trump is Steve Schmidt, John McCains Campaign Manager.

The fact remains those prominent Republicans helped elect Joe Biden.

That is why Cindy has been offered a position in the Biden administration? Seems like a political reward to me. Just sayin.

Jeff Sessions was one of the first politicians to support Trump and he became AG. So what?

Poor Jeff, now not even a Senator. But he followed the law by recusing himself, was fired. Now Barr seems to be going the same way by saying they found no evidence that would over turn the election. He is not the only Republican who says that.

Barr omitted that they didn’t find evidence because they weren’t part of an investigation; he is quoted out of context or should be fired.

I am beginning to realize it is not good to be answering you. Your posts are just really more blame, of someone, any one. Nothing constructive.

 

[Indeependent]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Why do people always jump to, "You want the market to deal with issues, that means you want NO GOVERNMENT!!!"? Only a very great fool thinks he can have capitalism and anarchy at the same time.

Of course, you're also apparently leaping to the conclusion that Indee agrees with you that "Trump is a bad man, because I don't like him!" I didn't see him agree with your gratuitous and unproven insults to Trump at all. Perhaps you could show me where he did.

I would also like to see the evidence for your confident assertion that "People turned to Biden because he's so bipartisan". Seems to me that you think Biden won=my worldview is completely correct, and everyone agrees with it. The Republican Party also has no need to "put itself back together", unless this is also an assumption on your part that they're in disarray because they don't agree with you.

And then there's the final assumption that the only reason people could disagree with you is because they're "mired in anger". Sounds to me like you need to spend less time listening to your own self-flattery in a mirror and more time listening to other people.

I have a great question for you. Why did so many prominent Republicans back Biden over Trump? Are they all corrupt, did not like Trump because he upset their gravy train or did they honestly see he was far from a Conservative, just destructive and destroying their party?

As an honest Conservative you can answer that question for those of us on the other side.

Well, take a look at the "prominent Republicans" who did so. Every damned one of them is a long-time career politician or bureaucrat (or, in the case of Cindy McCain, the wife of a long-time career politician) with a vested interest in returning to the days of business-as-usual that Trump termed "the swamp" and declared war on. And not a one of them is anything like an actual, ideological conservative, even aside from the fact that - as I've said before - no ideological conservative could ever vote for a candidate whose stated positions are the complete opposite of everything conservatives stand for, much less publicly trumpet doing so and pretend it's "for the good of the nation".

Those people weren't worried about Trump "destroying" the party; they were pissed at him taking the party away from them.

If you don't believe me, please name me one of these "prominent Republicans" that you think was a true political conservative, and we'll discuss it.

Cindy McCain was not in Politics. Her husband was. And one of those against Trump is Steve Schmidt, John McCains Campaign Manager.

The fact remains those prominent Republicans helped elect Joe Biden.

That is why Cindy has been offered a position in the Biden administration? Seems like a political reward to me. Just sayin.

Jeff Sessions was one of the first politicians to support Trump and he became AG. So what?

Poor Jeff, now not even a Senator. But he followed the law by recusing himself, was fired. Now Barr seems to be going the same way by saying they found no evidence that would over turn the election. He is not the only Republican who says that.

Barr omitted that they didn’t find evidence because they weren’t part of an investigation; he is quoted out of context or should be fired.

I am beginning to realize it is not good to be answering you. Your posts are just really more blame, of someone, any one. Nothing constructive.

Even politicians have to learn about projects and budgets.
There is no simple panacea for any large entity, let alone a nation.
You resent President Trump for trying to force businesses to hire US citizens...why?

 

[MaryAnne11]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

we have discussed it and determined your idea sucks,,,

now youre just mad you realized youre a fascist idiot,,,

Well, at least I don't have to waste time trying to take her seriously any more. It's always so tedious, waiting for leftists to inevitably reveal themselves as pants-wetting crybabies. A bit disappointing, though. I can remember when the left had an A team that could at least pretend to be grownups; now they start straight from the farm league every time.

when ever they say they want to discuss something it means shut up while I tell you what to do,,,

I keep saying that the "unity" Democrats keep bleating about is the unity of slaves quietly accepting their chains and doing as their owners tell them. And people keep telling me I'm exaggerating.

There are ways for people to compromise, work together and solve problems but we can not do it as long as we are raging at each other.

Normally, you're correct. However, I'm not sure how you can compromise on issues where people are diametrically opposed specifically because they believe the opposite position - not the people, the position - is actively morally bad.

And the fact remains that Democrats aren't interested in compromise, and they're not talking about compromise. They're talking specifically about "We'll unify by all you deplorables shutting up and accepting how right and superior we are. Just learn to like it."

Pot/kettle. Both parties have, die hards that will not compromise for the good of the Country. But it seems a group of Senators from both parties are trying to help Americans who are devastated by the virus.

Sorry, but I didn't say "diehards who will not compromise". I said "the Democrats". As a collective group - and the Democrats are nothing if not a collective, like an anthill - Democrats have a policy of not compromising on anything . . . unless the polling tells them they won't be able to get away with it. Republicans by nature simply are not that monolithic and unified. Until recently, they also didn't have the testicular fortitude to even try to be. As someone who has been voting and following politics as a registered Republican for the last 30 years, it has been my constant despair that elected Republicans were so spineless.

I know you did, but you are wrong. Your side is just as intractable. You need look no further than McConnell.

I have been a Democrat before you were born, but have never seen your party so hateful, thanks to your party leader. Many long time Republicans have come to agree with me. I honestly hope the decent ones can fix the party.

 

[Indeependent]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

we have discussed it and determined your idea sucks,,,

now youre just mad you realized youre a fascist idiot,,,

Well, at least I don't have to waste time trying to take her seriously any more. It's always so tedious, waiting for leftists to inevitably reveal themselves as pants-wetting crybabies. A bit disappointing, though. I can remember when the left had an A team that could at least pretend to be grownups; now they start straight from the farm league every time.

when ever they say they want to discuss something it means shut up while I tell you what to do,,,

I keep saying that the "unity" Democrats keep bleating about is the unity of slaves quietly accepting their chains and doing as their owners tell them. And people keep telling me I'm exaggerating.

There are ways for people to compromise, work together and solve problems but we can not do it as long as we are raging at each other.

Normally, you're correct. However, I'm not sure how you can compromise on issues where people are diametrically opposed specifically because they believe the opposite position - not the people, the position - is actively morally bad.

And the fact remains that Democrats aren't interested in compromise, and they're not talking about compromise. They're talking specifically about "We'll unify by all you deplorables shutting up and accepting how right and superior we are. Just learn to like it."

Pot/kettle. Both parties have, die hards that will not compromise for the good of the Country. But it seems a group of Senators from both parties are trying to help Americans who are devastated by the virus.

Sorry, but I didn't say "diehards who will not compromise". I said "the Democrats". As a collective group - and the Democrats are nothing if not a collective, like an anthill - Democrats have a policy of not compromising on anything . . . unless the polling tells them they won't be able to get away with it. Republicans by nature simply are not that monolithic and unified. Until recently, they also didn't have the testicular fortitude to even try to be. As someone who has been voting and following politics as a registered Republican for the last 30 years, it has been my constant despair that elected Republicans were so spineless.

I know you did, but you are wrong. Your side is just as intractable. You need look no further than McConnell.

I have been a Democrat before you were born, but have never seen your party so hateful, thanks to your party leader. Many long time Republicans have come to agree with me. I honestly hope the decent ones can fix the party.

McTurtle would spit on you if you were starving in the street; he is a globalist piece of shit.

 

[MaryAnne11]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Why do people always jump to, "You want the market to deal with issues, that means you want NO GOVERNMENT!!!"? Only a very great fool thinks he can have capitalism and anarchy at the same time.

Of course, you're also apparently leaping to the conclusion that Indee agrees with you that "Trump is a bad man, because I don't like him!" I didn't see him agree with your gratuitous and unproven insults to Trump at all. Perhaps you could show me where he did.

I would also like to see the evidence for your confident assertion that "People turned to Biden because he's so bipartisan". Seems to me that you think Biden won=my worldview is completely correct, and everyone agrees with it. The Republican Party also has no need to "put itself back together", unless this is also an assumption on your part that they're in disarray because they don't agree with you.

And then there's the final assumption that the only reason people could disagree with you is because they're "mired in anger". Sounds to me like you need to spend less time listening to your own self-flattery in a mirror and more time listening to other people.

I have a great question for you. Why did so many prominent Republicans back Biden over Trump? Are they all corrupt, did not like Trump because he upset their gravy train or did they honestly see he was far from a Conservative, just destructive and destroying their party?

As an honest Conservative you can answer that question for those of us on the other side.

Well, take a look at the "prominent Republicans" who did so. Every damned one of them is a long-time career politician or bureaucrat (or, in the case of Cindy McCain, the wife of a long-time career politician) with a vested interest in returning to the days of business-as-usual that Trump termed "the swamp" and declared war on. And not a one of them is anything like an actual, ideological conservative, even aside from the fact that - as I've said before - no ideological conservative could ever vote for a candidate whose stated positions are the complete opposite of everything conservatives stand for, much less publicly trumpet doing so and pretend it's "for the good of the nation".

Those people weren't worried about Trump "destroying" the party; they were pissed at him taking the party away from them.

If you don't believe me, please name me one of these "prominent Republicans" that you think was a true political conservative, and we'll discuss it.

Cindy McCain was not in Politics. Her husband was. And one of those against Trump is Steve Schmidt, John McCains Campaign Manager.

The fact remains those prominent Republicans helped elect Joe Biden.

That is why Cindy has been offered a position in the Biden administration? Seems like a political reward to me. Just sayin.

Jeff Sessions was one of the first politicians to support Trump and he became AG. So what?

Poor Jeff, now not even a Senator. But he followed the law by recusing himself, was fired. Now Barr seems to be going the same way by saying they found no evidence that would over turn the election. He is not the only Republican who says that.

Barr omitted that they didn’t find evidence because they weren’t part of an investigation; he is quoted out of context or should be fired.

I am beginning to realize it is not good to be answering you. Your posts are just really more blame, of someone, any one. Nothing constructive.

Even politicians have to learn about projects and budgets.
There is no simple panacea for any large entity, let alone a nation.
You resent President Trump for trying to force businesses to hire US citizens...why?

Now you are misquoting me. There are several things I agreed with Trump but his hate and desire for revenge on everyone killed him. Not me.

 

[MaryAnne11]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

we have discussed it and determined your idea sucks,,,

now youre just mad you realized youre a fascist idiot,,,

Well, at least I don't have to waste time trying to take her seriously any more. It's always so tedious, waiting for leftists to inevitably reveal themselves as pants-wetting crybabies. A bit disappointing, though. I can remember when the left had an A team that could at least pretend to be grownups; now they start straight from the farm league every time.

when ever they say they want to discuss something it means shut up while I tell you what to do,,,

I keep saying that the "unity" Democrats keep bleating about is the unity of slaves quietly accepting their chains and doing as their owners tell them. And people keep telling me I'm exaggerating.

There are ways for people to compromise, work together and solve problems but we can not do it as long as we are raging at each other.

Normally, you're correct. However, I'm not sure how you can compromise on issues where people are diametrically opposed specifically because they believe the opposite position - not the people, the position - is actively morally bad.

And the fact remains that Democrats aren't interested in compromise, and they're not talking about compromise. They're talking specifically about "We'll unify by all you deplorables shutting up and accepting how right and superior we are. Just learn to like it."

Pot/kettle. Both parties have, die hards that will not compromise for the good of the Country. But it seems a group of Senators from both parties are trying to help Americans who are devastated by the virus.

Sorry, but I didn't say "diehards who will not compromise". I said "the Democrats". As a collective group - and the Democrats are nothing if not a collective, like an anthill - Democrats have a policy of not compromising on anything . . . unless the polling tells them they won't be able to get away with it. Republicans by nature simply are not that monolithic and unified. Until recently, they also didn't have the testicular fortitude to even try to be. As someone who has been voting and following politics as a registered Republican for the last 30 years, it has been my constant despair that elected Republicans were so spineless.

I know you did, but you are wrong. Your side is just as intractable. You need look no further than McConnell.

I have been a Democrat before you were born, but have never seen your party so hateful, thanks to your party leader. Many long time Republicans have come to agree with me. I honestly hope the decent ones can fix the party.

McTurtle would spit on you if you were starving in the street; he is a globalist piece of shit.

We agree on that. But Ky. Voted him back in.

 

[Indeependent]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Why do people always jump to, "You want the market to deal with issues, that means you want NO GOVERNMENT!!!"? Only a very great fool thinks he can have capitalism and anarchy at the same time.

Of course, you're also apparently leaping to the conclusion that Indee agrees with you that "Trump is a bad man, because I don't like him!" I didn't see him agree with your gratuitous and unproven insults to Trump at all. Perhaps you could show me where he did.

I would also like to see the evidence for your confident assertion that "People turned to Biden because he's so bipartisan". Seems to me that you think Biden won=my worldview is completely correct, and everyone agrees with it. The Republican Party also has no need to "put itself back together", unless this is also an assumption on your part that they're in disarray because they don't agree with you.

And then there's the final assumption that the only reason people could disagree with you is because they're "mired in anger". Sounds to me like you need to spend less time listening to your own self-flattery in a mirror and more time listening to other people.

I have a great question for you. Why did so many prominent Republicans back Biden over Trump? Are they all corrupt, did not like Trump because he upset their gravy train or did they honestly see he was far from a Conservative, just destructive and destroying their party?

As an honest Conservative you can answer that question for those of us on the other side.

Well, take a look at the "prominent Republicans" who did so. Every damned one of them is a long-time career politician or bureaucrat (or, in the case of Cindy McCain, the wife of a long-time career politician) with a vested interest in returning to the days of business-as-usual that Trump termed "the swamp" and declared war on. And not a one of them is anything like an actual, ideological conservative, even aside from the fact that - as I've said before - no ideological conservative could ever vote for a candidate whose stated positions are the complete opposite of everything conservatives stand for, much less publicly trumpet doing so and pretend it's "for the good of the nation".

Those people weren't worried about Trump "destroying" the party; they were pissed at him taking the party away from them.

If you don't believe me, please name me one of these "prominent Republicans" that you think was a true political conservative, and we'll discuss it.

Cindy McCain was not in Politics. Her husband was. And one of those against Trump is Steve Schmidt, John McCains Campaign Manager.

The fact remains those prominent Republicans helped elect Joe Biden.

That is why Cindy has been offered a position in the Biden administration? Seems like a political reward to me. Just sayin.

Jeff Sessions was one of the first politicians to support Trump and he became AG. So what?

Poor Jeff, now not even a Senator. But he followed the law by recusing himself, was fired. Now Barr seems to be going the same way by saying they found no evidence that would over turn the election. He is not the only Republican who says that.

Barr omitted that they didn’t find evidence because they weren’t part of an investigation; he is quoted out of context or should be fired.

I am beginning to realize it is not good to be answering you. Your posts are just really more blame, of someone, any one. Nothing constructive.

Even politicians have to learn about projects and budgets.
There is no simple panacea for any large entity, let alone a nation.
You resent President Trump for trying to force businesses to hire US citizens...why?

Now you are misquoting me. There are several things I agreed with Trump but his hate and desire for revenge on everyone killed him. Not me.

Revenge is earned.

 

[Indeependent]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

we have discussed it and determined your idea sucks,,,

now youre just mad you realized youre a fascist idiot,,,

Well, at least I don't have to waste time trying to take her seriously any more. It's always so tedious, waiting for leftists to inevitably reveal themselves as pants-wetting crybabies. A bit disappointing, though. I can remember when the left had an A team that could at least pretend to be grownups; now they start straight from the farm league every time.

when ever they say they want to discuss something it means shut up while I tell you what to do,,,

I keep saying that the "unity" Democrats keep bleating about is the unity of slaves quietly accepting their chains and doing as their owners tell them. And people keep telling me I'm exaggerating.

There are ways for people to compromise, work together and solve problems but we can not do it as long as we are raging at each other.

Normally, you're correct. However, I'm not sure how you can compromise on issues where people are diametrically opposed specifically because they believe the opposite position - not the people, the position - is actively morally bad.

And the fact remains that Democrats aren't interested in compromise, and they're not talking about compromise. They're talking specifically about "We'll unify by all you deplorables shutting up and accepting how right and superior we are. Just learn to like it."

Pot/kettle. Both parties have, die hards that will not compromise for the good of the Country. But it seems a group of Senators from both parties are trying to help Americans who are devastated by the virus.

Sorry, but I didn't say "diehards who will not compromise". I said "the Democrats". As a collective group - and the Democrats are nothing if not a collective, like an anthill - Democrats have a policy of not compromising on anything . . . unless the polling tells them they won't be able to get away with it. Republicans by nature simply are not that monolithic and unified. Until recently, they also didn't have the testicular fortitude to even try to be. As someone who has been voting and following politics as a registered Republican for the last 30 years, it has been my constant despair that elected Republicans were so spineless.

I know you did, but you are wrong. Your side is just as intractable. You need look no further than McConnell.

I have been a Democrat before you were born, but have never seen your party so hateful, thanks to your party leader. Many long time Republicans have come to agree with me. I honestly hope the decent ones can fix the party.

McTurtle would spit on you if you were starving in the street; he is a globalist piece of shit.

We agree on that. But Ky. Voted him back in.

Was there an alternative?

 

[Cecilie1200]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

we have discussed it and determined your idea sucks,,,

now youre just mad you realized youre a fascist idiot,,,

Well, at least I don't have to waste time trying to take her seriously any more. It's always so tedious, waiting for leftists to inevitably reveal themselves as pants-wetting crybabies. A bit disappointing, though. I can remember when the left had an A team that could at least pretend to be grownups; now they start straight from the farm league every time.

when ever they say they want to discuss something it means shut up while I tell you what to do,,,

I keep saying that the "unity" Democrats keep bleating about is the unity of slaves quietly accepting their chains and doing as their owners tell them. And people keep telling me I'm exaggerating.

There are ways for people to compromise, work together and solve problems but we can not do it as long as we are raging at each other.

Normally, you're correct. However, I'm not sure how you can compromise on issues where people are diametrically opposed specifically because they believe the opposite position - not the people, the position - is actively morally bad.

And the fact remains that Democrats aren't interested in compromise, and they're not talking about compromise. They're talking specifically about "We'll unify by all you deplorables shutting up and accepting how right and superior we are. Just learn to like it."

Pot/kettle. Both parties have, die hards that will not compromise for the good of the Country. But it seems a group of Senators from both parties are trying to help Americans who are devastated by the virus.

Sorry, but I didn't say "diehards who will not compromise". I said "the Democrats". As a collective group - and the Democrats are nothing if not a collective, like an anthill - Democrats have a policy of not compromising on anything . . . unless the polling tells them they won't be able to get away with it. Republicans by nature simply are not that monolithic and unified. Until recently, they also didn't have the testicular fortitude to even try to be. As someone who has been voting and following politics as a registered Republican for the last 30 years, it has been my constant despair that elected Republicans were so spineless.

I know you did, but you are wrong. Your side is just as intractable. You need look no further than McConnell.

I have been a Democrat before you were born, but have never seen your party so hateful, thanks to your party leader. Many long time Republicans have come to agree with me. I honestly hope the decent ones can fix the party.

No, I'm sorry, we aren't, and pointing to one person is not "our side". You and I both know that if I said, "Look at Pelosi, that's ALL Democrats", you'd be crying foul. And, as I said, that's with Democrats being far more monolithic than Republicans have ever considered being.

That being said, even McConnell is willing to compromise, provided you give him an ACTUAL compromise, rather than just "We demand this, and you cave in and give it to us".

As for "Well, I'm much older than you, therefore I am correct", this is another example of you simply deciding that your assumptions, biases, and preconceived notions are fact because you find them comfortable. Are you related to me? Have you even actually met me? No? Then how the fuck do you know when I was born?

And don't even give me this "Well, you're all just mean and hateful. Everything is your fault because you're so BAAAAD!!!" I'm not going to dignify that by responding to it, and if you continue to waste my time with partisan attacks, I won't dignify you with a response, either. Same goes for your conflation of "decent" with "people who agree with me." You keep claiming you want discussion instead of politics, so act like it.

Lastly, a grown adult should be embarrassed to resort to something so juvenile as "Look at all these people who agree with me and have the right label!! That means I'm right!"

 

[MaryAnne11]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

How does the market handle polluting? They've been forced to clean it up. Anyway, believe COVID isn't serious, don't believe in wearing masks and climate change isn't happening regardless of what science says. Give it a rest, you're trying way too hard to be obnoxious.

I would suggest reading financial publications that describe how companies have Research & Development teams that are always working to make their overall business more efficient, both monetarily and in terms of their ecological footprint.
Yes, we all think businesses are evil, but even they want to find less expensive ways to do things.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I'm trying to encourage you to do something else other than getting your news from USMB.

I can not answer for others but you will never find me saying,” Businesses are evil!”

Matter of fact I have given credit for many businesses who are working hard to create clean energy.

Process optimization and efficiency | ExxonMobil

ExxonMobil constantly strives to improve performance and streamline our processes in order to reduce time, cost, risk and environmental impact.

corporate.exxonmobil.com

Texas Energy Sector | Texas Energy Industry | TxEDC

The Texas energy sector has seen tremendous growth due to it being a top energy production state in the United States. Learn more about the energy industry in Texas.

businessintexas.com

That is just a couple.

Yes, but the question is, do you only consider them "not-evil" because of things they do that agree with you? Or do you consider business to not be evil in the more general, people-benefit-by-their-existence-doing-business-is-a-good-thing sense?

I would consider a business evil if their leaders were corrupt and cheating but. Even then it would be the person, not the business.

Good. The question remains, though, do you consider business in general - commerce, free trade, capitalism - to be a good or bad thing?

Business provides jobs. We could not get very far without them. Business is made up of workers, Management and in many cases stockholders, good and bad. Not sure what else there is to say.

 

[HappyJoy]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

How does the market handle polluting? They've been forced to clean it up. Anyway, believe COVID isn't serious, don't believe in wearing masks and climate change isn't happening regardless of what science says. Give it a rest, you're trying way too hard to be obnoxious.

I would suggest reading financial publications that describe how companies have Research & Development teams that are always working to make their overall business more efficient, both monetarily and in terms of their ecological footprint.
Yes, we all think businesses are evil, but even they want to find less expensive ways to do things.

I'm not trying to be obnoxious, I'm trying to encourage you to do something else other than getting your news from USMB.

I can not answer for others but you will never find me saying,” Businesses are evil!”

Matter of fact I have given credit for many businesses who are working hard to create clean energy.

Process optimization and efficiency | ExxonMobil

ExxonMobil constantly strives to improve performance and streamline our processes in order to reduce time, cost, risk and environmental impact.

corporate.exxonmobil.com

Texas Energy Sector | Texas Energy Industry | TxEDC

The Texas energy sector has seen tremendous growth due to it being a top energy production state in the United States. Learn more about the energy industry in Texas.

businessintexas.com

That is just a couple.

Yes, but the question is, do you only consider them "not-evil" because of things they do that agree with you? Or do you consider business to not be evil in the more general, people-benefit-by-their-existence-doing-business-is-a-good-thing sense?

I would consider a business evil if their leaders were corrupt and cheating but. Even then it would be the person, not the business.

Good. The question remains, though, do you consider business in general - commerce, free trade, capitalism - to be a good or bad thing?

Business provides jobs. We could not get very far without them. Business is made up of workers, Management and in many cases stockholders, good and bad. Not sure what else there is to say.

Yeah, I agree with this. Saying is capitalism good or bad is a little too simplistic. Regulated capitalism is good with a strong social safety net to help those that from time to time end up in the crevices.

 

[MaryAnne11]

democrats are moving too far left

republicans have gone too far right

i find myself appreciating rinos and dinos more these days

we need a third party for the majority of us who are moderates

might I suggest the constitution party,,,

if we hadnt abandoned the constitution we wouldnt have the problems we have,,,

That would be cool,I have said for two decades that both parties are corrupt and one in the same as long as we have this corrupt two party system the world will always be an evil place to live in,little did I know the year 2020 would be a year where more evil occurred than any other year in the past here in America.

What evil occurred in 2020? This election was one of the safest in American History. I am glad 160 million turned out to vote or voted absentee in the safety of their homes. Thank God for an APP where I could check my ballot right into the count just like you can check an online package today. I love it. And am in that Senior group.

"One of the safest in American history." What in the actual hell are you gabbling about? Do you think US Presidential elections routinely erupt in violence? This is actually the first election I can recall where violence was a concern at all.

You just want to argue. Instead of discussing anything you just rant.Bye.

we have discussed it and determined your idea sucks,,,

now youre just mad you realized youre a fascist idiot,,,

Well, at least I don't have to waste time trying to take her seriously any more. It's always so tedious, waiting for leftists to inevitably reveal themselves as pants-wetting crybabies. A bit disappointing, though. I can remember when the left had an A team that could at least pretend to be grownups; now they start straight from the farm league every time.

when ever they say they want to discuss something it means shut up while I tell you what to do,,,

I keep saying that the "unity" Democrats keep bleating about is the unity of slaves quietly accepting their chains and doing as their owners tell them. And people keep telling me I'm exaggerating.

There are ways for people to compromise, work together and solve problems but we can not do it as long as we are raging at each other.

Normally, you're correct. However, I'm not sure how you can compromise on issues where people are diametrically opposed specifically because they believe the opposite position - not the people, the position - is actively morally bad.

And the fact remains that Democrats aren't interested in compromise, and they're not talking about compromise. They're talking specifically about "We'll unify by all you deplorables shutting up and accepting how right and superior we are. Just learn to like it."

Pot/kettle. Both parties have, die hards that will not compromise for the good of the Country. But it seems a group of Senators from both parties are trying to help Americans who are devastated by the virus.

Sorry, but I didn't say "diehards who will not compromise". I said "the Democrats". As a collective group - and the Democrats are nothing if not a collective, like an anthill - Democrats have a policy of not compromising on anything . . . unless the polling tells them they won't be able to get away with it. Republicans by nature simply are not that monolithic and unified. Until recently, they also didn't have the testicular fortitude to even try to be. As someone who has been voting and following politics as a registered Republican for the last 30 years, it has been my constant despair that elected Republicans were so spineless.

I know you did, but you are wrong. Your side is just as intractable. You need look no further than McConnell.

I have been a Democrat before you were born, but have never seen your party so hateful, thanks to your party leader. Many long time Republicans have come to agree with me. I honestly hope the decent ones can fix the party.

No, I'm sorry, we aren't, and pointing to one person is not "our side". You and I both know that if I said, "Look at Pelosi, that's ALL Democrats", you'd be crying foul. And, as I said, that's with Democrats being far more monolithic than Republicans have ever considered being.

That being said, even McConnell is willing to compromise, provided you give him an ACTUAL compromise, rather than just "We demand this, and you cave in and give it to us".

As for "Well, I'm much older than you, therefore I am correct", this is another example of you simply deciding that your assumptions, biases, and preconceived notions are fact because you find them comfortable. Are you related to me? Have you even actually met me? No? Then how the fuck do you know when I was born?

And don't even give me this "Well, you're all just mean and hateful. Everything is your fault because you're so BAAAAD!!!" I'm not going to dignify that by responding to it, and if you continue to waste my time with partisan attacks, I won't dignify you with a response, either. Same goes for your conflation of "decent" with "people who agree with me." You keep claiming you want discussion instead of politics, so act like it.

Lastly, a grown adult should be embarrassed to resort to something so juvenile as "Look at all these people who agree with me and have the right label!! That means I'm right!"

I have yet to say I am correct. Never once said you are bad. So if all you have is misstatements about what I said I doubt there is much more to discuss. You are taking what I post and seem to consider it a personal attack.

My age was mentioned because of my long observation of Political parties.

 

[MaryAnne11]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Why do people always jump to, "You want the market to deal with issues, that means you want NO GOVERNMENT!!!"? Only a very great fool thinks he can have capitalism and anarchy at the same time.

Of course, you're also apparently leaping to the conclusion that Indee agrees with you that "Trump is a bad man, because I don't like him!" I didn't see him agree with your gratuitous and unproven insults to Trump at all. Perhaps you could show me where he did.

I would also like to see the evidence for your confident assertion that "People turned to Biden because he's so bipartisan". Seems to me that you think Biden won=my worldview is completely correct, and everyone agrees with it. The Republican Party also has no need to "put itself back together", unless this is also an assumption on your part that they're in disarray because they don't agree with you.

And then there's the final assumption that the only reason people could disagree with you is because they're "mired in anger". Sounds to me like you need to spend less time listening to your own self-flattery in a mirror and more time listening to other people.

I have a great question for you. Why did so many prominent Republicans back Biden over Trump? Are they all corrupt, did not like Trump because he upset their gravy train or did they honestly see he was far from a Conservative, just destructive and destroying their party?

As an honest Conservative you can answer that question for those of us on the other side.

Well, take a look at the "prominent Republicans" who did so. Every damned one of them is a long-time career politician or bureaucrat (or, in the case of Cindy McCain, the wife of a long-time career politician) with a vested interest in returning to the days of business-as-usual that Trump termed "the swamp" and declared war on. And not a one of them is anything like an actual, ideological conservative, even aside from the fact that - as I've said before - no ideological conservative could ever vote for a candidate whose stated positions are the complete opposite of everything conservatives stand for, much less publicly trumpet doing so and pretend it's "for the good of the nation".

Those people weren't worried about Trump "destroying" the party; they were pissed at him taking the party away from them.

If you don't believe me, please name me one of these "prominent Republicans" that you think was a true political conservative, and we'll discuss it.

Cindy McCain was not in Politics. Her husband was. And one of those against Trump is Steve Schmidt, John McCains Campaign Manager.

The fact remains those prominent Republicans helped elect Joe Biden.

That is why Cindy has been offered a position in the Biden administration? Seems like a political reward to me. Just sayin.

Jeff Sessions was one of the first politicians to support Trump and he became AG. So what?

Poor Jeff, now not even a Senator. But he followed the law by recusing himself, was fired. Now Barr seems to be going the same way by saying they found no evidence that would over turn the election. He is not the only Republican who says that.

Barr omitted that they didn’t find evidence because they weren’t part of an investigation; he is quoted out of context or should be fired.

I am beginning to realize it is not good to be answering you. Your posts are just really more blame, of someone, any one. Nothing constructive.

Even politicians have to learn about projects and budgets.
There is no simple panacea for any large entity, let alone a nation.
You resent President Trump for trying to force businesses to hire US citizens...why?

Now you are misquoting me. There are several things I agreed with Trump but his hate and desire for revenge on everyone killed him. Not me.

Revenge is earned.

Not always. That is a flippant answer and excuse for a man who has been bent on revenge for a long time. Do you go around seeking revenge from every one who simply disagrees with you? Normal people do not.

 

[MaryAnne11]

I think to become a more perfect union. There are always problems to fix.

And what does that mean? A more perfect union to me is not spending us into oblivion. People are wanting to go trillions more in debt, we don’t have the money and no means to pay. You can tax every American 100% of our income and still not reduce the debt. We are on the edge of disaster. We need to take a hard look at our spending and cut it, drastically.

Trump was spending us into oblivion while the economy was doing fine. Glad you were concerned about it after all.

The rest of your post isn't worth bothering with since nobody is being taxed at 100% nor is anyo.....ya' know fuck it, it's not even worth finishing the sentence.

You asked what 'moving forward' was and I gave you an answer, building a more perfect union. It's all gooey in founding father glory so you should pretend to like it.

Who is going to force entertainers worth 10s of millions to join the working class in this perfect Union?
The average person working on a movie makes about 15K/year.

You continue to go off into the weeds. We need some fairness in both wages and taxes.

I think he thinks he's debating Stalin or whatever.

Just telling the truth about part of the Liberal Elite.
They don’t give a shit about you.

I see. So according to your analogy (I don't know what else to call it) I am an entertainer "worth 10s of millions" and the left doesn't give a shit about me because they are going to force me to only make $15k?

It's a weird fucking world, isn't it?

You think a celebrity is going to pay you an equal salary or stay in the US if they have to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes.

Oh, so I'm not the celebrity now and the problem is you think liberal policies are going to push specifically celebrities to leave the country?

Seriously, this is a dumb argument.

So what do you think of the dozens of celebrities who promised they would leave the US in 2016?

I don't?

I thought you said they would leave if Biden was elected and the wage matching down to $15k or whatever.

Stop being stupid.
Over 100 celebrities said they would leave the US if Trump won in 2016.
As usual, they lied.
Of course you know this but you’ll lie that you don’t.

I don’t care, do you?

Simply because the Liberals here have a habit of using these celebrities to display that cool celebrities hate Trump.
Anyone who constantly breaks an oath is not cool.

I do?

Are you not a LibBot?
You love everybody who thinks exactly the same way you do.
I certainly don't see any Liberals here, or anywhere else for that matter, differing on any issue.
You come across as robots and then call those who disagree with you on any issue a TrumpBot.

Gee, liberals like conservatives tend to have a core value of beliefs. For example liberals believe in a strong social safety net and conservatives apparently don't believe in science and the will of the people. Trump isn't an ideology, he is a fraud.

Saying Conservatives don't believe in science is a fallacy.
Conservatives want the market to deal with issues and the market has done a marvelous job of phasing out mechanical processes in favor of electronic processes in gathering materials , processing materials and cleaning up.
It is a wonderful coincidence that the work that goes into building a civilization such as ours is less expensive with the less ecologically intrusive processes than the more ecologically intrusive processes.

You are right the market can do many things but there is still a need for Government.

At least you are one of the few who understand Trump is far from Conservative. He is simply a fraud and con man. This is why so many turned to Biden. They know he is a Democrat but they also understand he is well known for working across the aisle. This will give real Conservatives time to put their party back together. I see that as good news.

Of course there will always be the nay sayers, those mired in anger but they will become the minority..

Why do people always jump to, "You want the market to deal with issues, that means you want NO GOVERNMENT!!!"? Only a very great fool thinks he can have capitalism and anarchy at the same time.

Of course, you're also apparently leaping to the conclusion that Indee agrees with you that "Trump is a bad man, because I don't like him!" I didn't see him agree with your gratuitous and unproven insults to Trump at all. Perhaps you could show me where he did.

I would also like to see the evidence for your confident assertion that "People turned to Biden because he's so bipartisan". Seems to me that you think Biden won=my worldview is completely correct, and everyone agrees with it. The Republican Party also has no need to "put itself back together", unless this is also an assumption on your part that they're in disarray because they don't agree with you.

And then there's the final assumption that the only reason people could disagree with you is because they're "mired in anger". Sounds to me like you need to spend less time listening to your own self-flattery in a mirror and more time listening to other people.

I have a great question for you. Why did so many prominent Republicans back Biden over Trump? Are they all corrupt, did not like Trump because he upset their gravy train or did they honestly see he was far from a Conservative, just destructive and destroying their party?

As an honest Conservative you can answer that question for those of us on the other side.

Well, take a look at the "prominent Republicans" who did so. Every damned one of them is a long-time career politician or bureaucrat (or, in the case of Cindy McCain, the wife of a long-time career politician) with a vested interest in returning to the days of business-as-usual that Trump termed "the swamp" and declared war on. And not a one of them is anything like an actual, ideological conservative, even aside from the fact that - as I've said before - no ideological conservative could ever vote for a candidate whose stated positions are the complete opposite of everything conservatives stand for, much less publicly trumpet doing so and pretend it's "for the good of the nation".

Those people weren't worried about Trump "destroying" the party; they were pissed at him taking the party away from them.

If you don't believe me, please name me one of these "prominent Republicans" that you think was a true political conservative, and we'll discuss it.

Cindy McCain was not in Politics. Her husband was. And one of those against Trump is Steve Schmidt, John McCains Campaign Manager.

The fact remains those prominent Republicans helped elect Joe Biden.

That is why Cindy has been offered a position in the Biden administration? Seems like a political reward to me. Just sayin.

Of course she is now, but Cindy never ran for office. Did Biden choose her, or is that more media gossip?

Then why did she announce that she was voting for Biden? It seems she was using her political influence.

Because she did not like what Trump is. Are you saying a person does not have the right to vote for the candidate they choose? Her husband and Biden did not allow politics to get in the way of their long time friendship.

I’m trying to find where I said that you can’t vote for the person you choose. Not even close to saying that. Why would you think I said that? Strange.

You expect HJ to actually read an entire post?

I don’t expect anything from them, they knee jerk, make stupid cookie cutter responses and won’t touch the real questions that would get to the bottom of the issues. Mary and Happy don’t want to touch the real issues, such as greed, spending and debt, they like most Americans want more and more. How can we fix the healthcare issue when we can’t control spending? How can we secure our nations future when we are falling behind other nations because we can’t control spending.

But they are stuck in superficial nonsense.

What have you done to stop those things you mentioned?