Libby von H
Platinum Member
- Nov 10, 2023
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what you said, exactly what it appears you believe/Bold mine. Not what I said, nor anything close to what I believe.
Just saying 'Naaah' is not very adult you must admit
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what you said, exactly what it appears you believe/Bold mine. Not what I said, nor anything close to what I believe.
You aren't Jewish, and that covenant was replaced by a better one:Hebrew 9 is speaking of Covenants.
Leviticus says fine flour is also permitted as a sin offering.
Enjoy the conversation with whomever, then, because it's not with me.what you said
The Bible is more than one verse or even one book. Quote one and too much is left out. God has been working with mankind and all his various periods and phases from the beginning. Redemption and salvation is a Way (or a journey) for each one as we labor to overcome sin and live as God designed. Yes, the physical body is fallen, but our spirits are above that, and we have God's graces and promises to escort and conduct us to a life beyond our sins. Paul notes that the harder it is for us to overcome a sin, the more grace we are given to achieve the victory.You aren't Jewish, and that covenant was replaced by a better one:
Hebrews 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises
Does it matter how one lives life, or is it the only thing that matters is what one believes? Christ did the entire work of opening the way of redemption and salvation. He showed us the way. Is it a matter of saying, "Yes, that's what he did, but no need to walk the walk, only thing needed is to talk the talk." Isn't a gift meant to be used, not just talked about? The fact we can overcome our own sins doesn't even factor in? Overcoming personal sin seems worth a worthwhile endeavor.Christ did not fall short. His work is complete.
John 17:4 I glorified you on earth by completing the work you gave me to do.
He never said, "Ok, I have finished paying for my portion of your salvation, now, you go pay the rest".
Did He pay for 50% of your sins? 75%? 1%? How will you ever rest in Jesus if you don't know how much of your sin he left unpaid?
In the millions of years that go to making up mankind, at what point would you speculate for mankind being aware of your god?The Bible is more than one verse or even one book. Quote one and too much is left out. God has been working with mankind and all his various periods and phases from the beginning.
Wikipedia: Humans evolved in Africa.[4] Genetic measurements indicate that the ape lineage which would lead to Homo sapiens diverged from the lineage that would lead to chimpanzees and bonobos, the closest living relatives of modern humans, between 7 million and 5 million years ago.[5] The term hominin denotes human ancestors that lived after the split with chimpanzees and bonobos,
As far as the date/year, haven't a clue. It seems it would be the point where God breathed the breath of life into man.We could also ask, when did your god consider our early ancestors to be 'mankind'?
You're more often than not claiming that you don't know.As far as the date/year, haven't a clue. It seems it would be the point where God breathed the breath of life into man.
No. It's clear. You disappoint me.Hebrew 9 is speaking of Covenants.
Leviticus says fine flour is also permitted as a sin offering.
Interest for some lies more in physical existence. For others, spiritual existence captivates many people of faith.You're more often than not claiming that you don't know.
Should we assume that your god acknowledged early mankind 3.8 million years ago?
I'll offer that as the Christian's belief, in the absence of no Christian wanting to speculate or actually know. It's not an unreasonable starting point, considering that mankind's ancestor was a Chimp/Bonobo or at least a hybrid man/chimp..
You can believe that if you choose to believe it, without any danger of contradicting the Catholic church.
One verse. What does Leviticus say? What else does scripture say about the sacrifice God desires? Since Jesus offered his blood as the blood of the new covenant, it is not surprising that the author focuses on other offerings of blood, and the blood of older covenants. Other verses point out that that blood wasn't the only way for the remission of sins, but it was the only way that old covenants--and the new--were sealed.No. It's clear. You disappoint me.
Hebrews 9:
22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
I think you are moving too far in the other direction. Only God forgives sin, we all agree. God requires repentance of sin before He will forgive, we all agree. The part where it appears we disagree is on the role our actions take in that process.Does it matter how one lives life, or is it the only thing that matters is what one believes? Christ did the entire work of opening the way of redemption and salvation. He showed us the way. Is it a matter of saying, "Yes, that's what he did, but no need to walk the walk, only thing needed is to talk the talk." Isn't a gift meant to be used, not just talked about? The fact we can overcome our own sins doesn't even factor in? Overcoming personal sin seems worth a worthwhile endeavor.
Jesus taught repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Does this mean giving up sin 50% of the time? 75%? 1%? Or does this mean striving to repent/turn from the sin 100% of the time?
Leviticus says:One verse. What does Leviticus say? What else does scripture say about the sacrifice God desires? Since Jesus offered his blood as the blood of the new covenant, it is not surprising that the author focuses on other offerings of blood, and the blood of older covenants. Other verses point out that that blood wasn't the only way for the remission of sins, but it was the only way that old covenants--and the new--were sealed.
You APPEAR to be saying that we have to in some way EARN forgiveness
Which is why I said that it appears that way. No, we cannot earn our salvation, but I have seen Catholics insist that works are necessary for salvation. They are not, they are the necessary and natural result of salvation, not the cause.View attachment 928478
Does the above picture appear to be a young woman or an old crone? Read what is said, not what additions/jumping to conclusions can be brought into the discussion. The idea of "earning" salvation is not present anymore than a mirage is present. "Earning" is an idea Protestants brought to the table as an accusation to throw at Catholics. Meanwhile we are simply going forward living our redemption/salvation.
Like the picture above--and mirages--optical illusions can be powerful, but let's not make them the focal point of a discussion. Earning is not on the table, never has been.
Mirage.You appear to be saying the works are necessary for someone to gain salvation
That's plain silly. Mankind is in less position to make demands of God than he is to make demands of a mountain.that we are then able to hold them up to God and demand that He accept us.
Yet, she never would.IOW, that Mother Theresa, for example, would be able to walk into God's presence and God would have no choice but to accept her because she did so many good deeds.
And I guarantee when anyone--Mother Theresa or the greatest sinner (if it is not Mother Theresa)--is in the Presence, they are struck by how much they are loved. No pleading, no blood. Love.I can guarantee that when she went into His presence, she was struck by how sinful she was and could only plead the blood of Christ.
Leviticus. Or, ask any Jew (who has read all of Leviticus) acceptable sin offerings.But you knew that, so why are you continuing to argue that blood is not necessary for the forgiveness of sin?
New Covenant.IOW, if blood is not required, why did God insist that Jesus had to go to the cross?
Matthew 25Mirage.
That's plain silly. Mankind is in less position to make demands of God than he is to make demands of a mountain.
Yet, she never would.
And I guarantee when anyone--Mother Theresa or the greatest sinner (if it is not Mother Theresa)--is in the Presence, they are struck by how much they are loved. No pleading, no blood. Love.
Is obedience to Christ necessary? What did he command? Did we feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, clothe the naked, etc.? Did we discern the will of God and follow it? What talents were we given? How many will we return to the one who loaned them to us?Which is why I said that it appears that way. No, we cannot earn our salvation, but I have seen Catholics insist that works are necessary for salvation. They are not, they are the necessary and natural result of salvation, not the cause.
"Boasting" is another mirage. Catholics remember clearly that we are not to let our left hand know what our right hand is doing. On the other hand, city lights on a hillside cannot be hidden--which may be why so many toss "earning" and "boasting" at those Kingdom/city lights. All are most welcome in this kingdom; no need to stand outside with suspicious minds.God set it up that way so no one can boast about the amount of good works they have done. No one can say, "I am holier than you are", so it's incredibly important to put good works in the correct place.