A hometown example of the necessity of gun rights

[Lookout]

So, if you are forced to kill someone that is trying to rape and kill your wife and daughter, you should go to jail?

m14-This guy is just a wack job, I mean whats the point anymore? I think he is just full of crap and just likes to argue and try to get under people's skin. I think he picked a hot topic and just likes taking the defensive side. Guess he likes feeling alone!

 

[M14 Shooter]

m14-This guy is just a wack job, I mean whats the point anymore? I think he is just full of crap and just likes to argue and try to get under people's skin. I think he picked a hot topic and just likes taking the defensive side. Guess he likes feeling alone!

However true that may be, I'd LOVE to see his answer.

 

[Shogun]

I never said I was a bad ass. I only mentioned martial arts because A) the tenets that I previously mentioned that make up my code of ethics and B) because there are joint locks and weapons techniques that can help in some situations.

So what is the scenario that happens usually? How many home invaders use guns? Are the lights on or off?

Thats just it, you are never going to predict a home invasion. The above kid would have never been able to predict that he was about to kill someone 10 minutes before the criminals busted down his door. Your code of ethics may be great and all but I'm betting jacks, joes and dominoes that they have never been tested during criminal activity. Joint locks and weapon techniques are pretty useless when a bullet slams into your chest, yes?

 

[Shogun]

Surprise surprise, the military guy is going to side with the other military guy against the liberal.

and yet i'm a liberal siding with him too. Stop being mellowdramatic about the tone of his rebuttal.

 

[Shogun]

Sure it is. You don't believe it to be so because you personally disagree. But the blood-thirstiness that came out on this thread pretty-much proves what I said. And I stand by that.

BLOOD THIRSTINESS? uh, did the kid in the above article go LOOKING to kill someone? no? He reacted according to a viable threat with a gun. THIS scenerio may not be predictable but I damn sure bet that it's more frequent than wassa kung fu gripsters defending themselves against criminals with the fabled bullet block. Carl Douglas isn't playing in the soundtrack.

 

[Taomon]

Ummm ... no? You are the one presenting the argument. Backing it up is encumbent on YOU, not me.

I do not know the numerical odds of a home invasion occuring, nor do I care. It's a false parameter to the discussion to begin with. How about violent crimes committed with firearms against US citizens? THAT would be a FAR AND AWAY more appropriate statistic.

Let's try this again. One, I already stated the scenario I presented was an example. Two, there's NOTHING bullshit about it.

What's bullshit is YOU trying to tailor each and every fact to suit your skewed argument ... to the intellectually dishonest point of you making a statement them demanding I disprove it rather than YOU presenting even a shred of evidence to support it.

The fact is YOU don't know what tactics are used to invade a home. I didn't miss your 1st grade attempt to trap me into saying I knew what was and was not used in each and every home invasion. In case you missed it, I didn't take the bait. A 3 years old can see through your dishonest little game here.

SO how about you stop tapdancing all over the place and support your rhetoric or shut the hell up?

Gunny, it would only be an example if it actually happened and was not an example you created or exists in a Special Ops manual.

I could say an example of a home invasion is three men, unarmed and drunk, crawling through a window and being too timid to fight.

But it is not true because an example of a home invasion is a case study of any one that happened. You don't even know, nor will say, how many have happened since 2000. Not bercause it is up to me to say, but because you know that the statistics are so small that your argument is weakened for the need to be armed.

I am not tapdancing, you are avoiding facts.

 

[Taomon]

btw ... perps using as simple a tactic as I describe is hardly any out of the ordinary thinking. Anyone with a logical mind who wished to invade a home would use just such a tactic or something similar.

And the scenario never happened so you cannot site it as an example.

 

[Taomon]

So, if you are forced to kill someone that is trying to rape and kill your wife and daughter, you should go to jail?

If I committed murder and could have stopped the assualt without resorting to murder, then yes. I would have committed a crime.

 

[Taomon]

and yet i'm a liberal siding with him too. Stop being mellowdramatic about the tone of his rebuttal.

That response was meant as a joke. sheesh

 

[Taomon]

BLOOD THIRSTINESS? uh, did the kid in the above article go LOOKING to kill someone? no? He reacted according to a viable threat with a gun. THIS scenerio may not be predictable but I damn sure bet that it's more frequent than wassa kung fu gripsters defending themselves against criminals with the fabled bullet block. Carl Douglas isn't playing in the soundtrack.

No, but the people posting in this thread seemed (according to their own words) to be waiting for someone to break in so they can kill them. They seem hell bent on it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If I committed murder and could have stopped the assualt without resorting to murder, then yes. I would have committed a crime.

I didnt ask you about committing murder, I asked you about killing someone in the act of self-defense where the only way to stop the attacker was to kill him.

You said:

But I will not condone self defense laws that allow citizens to kill - no matter what the circumstance.

I ask again:
If you kill someone in the act of self-defense, should you go to jail?

 

[Bern80]

If I committed murder and could have stopped the assualt without resorting to murder, then yes. I would have committed a crime.

And you would know you could have stopped it before you were dead how, exactley? ESP perhaps? Seems the only way you would know if you needed to use a gun is if you're dead already.

 

[Shogun]

No, but the people posting in this thread seemed (according to their own words) to be waiting for someone to break in so they can kill them. They seem hell bent on it.

Im willing to bet that it's true that not a single one of the posters from this thread that woulduse lethal force against a home intruder WANTS to kill anyone. Granted, they may not hesitate to kill but, im betting, if given the choice between a quiet family evening and shooting a burglar they would choose the former every time. There is no reason to suggest that someone hates animals just because they are vocal about using mousetraps on pests.

know what I mean?

 

[Lookout]

Im willing to bet that it's true that not a single one of the posters from this thread that woulduse lethal force against a home intruder WANTS to kill anyone. Granted, they may not hesitate to kill but, im betting, if given the choice between a quiet family evening and shooting a burglar they would choose the former every time. There is no reason to suggest that someone hates animals just because they are vocal about using mousetraps on pests.

know what I mean?

Are we still doing this? I know that for me...personally...I am not waiting in my house praying for the opportunity to kill someone breaking in my house. Given the choice between a quiet evening at home and shooting a burglar, I would of course take the quiet evening at home...Thats a no brainer. BUT, If someone broke into my home and I shot them, I certainly am not going to shed a tear or miss any sleep. Infact, if later I find out that person had commited a crime like sexual abuse of a child or had murdered in cold blood, I would relish in the fact that God lead them to my house so I could eliminate one more piece of scum from good old mother earth. Hell, I'de probably take pictures before the police arived and after it was over, pin them to my front door with a note that says, this is what happened to the last person breaking in here, how lucky do you feel? It isnt a matter of being blood thirsty, if that was the case alot of people would just be killing people just because. It's a matter of being prepared mentally and physically and emotionally for IF something like that happens. I'm just one of those people that won't have to go to therapy for after the fact. Also, If someone broke into my house, I am not going to let them get away to go terrorize someone else. If they were coming at me with a knife or gun...You bet...12 rounds in the chest and head. If they were startled and tried to run, they would be minus a knee cap. The ammount of force used depends upon every situation because no two situations are the same. Are we not tired of playing with Taomon yet?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Are we still doing this? I know that for me...personally...I am not waiting in my house praying for the opportunity to kill someone breaking in my house.

Neither is anyone else.

 

[Lookout]

You know, I have a really great nick name for Taomon. Cause he keeps comming back and its the same thing over and over again. Does he come with a string attached?

 

[Annie]

No, but the people posting in this thread seemed (according to their own words) to be waiting for someone to break in so they can kill them. They seem hell bent on it.

I think I've found some friends for you!

http://www.saysuncle.com/archives/2008/01/02/more_anti-gun_sockpuppetry/

You'll have no problem tracking down who's who, as there are lots of links.

More anti-gun sockpuppetry
Posted by: SayUncle

You’ll recall our old pal NRAFOUREVER. He wrote some pretty vile, disgusting racist stuff while parodying being pro-gun. Some examples:

Yea, thats rite, but I think you got the stastic rong. I heard Wayyne LaPeare say it was 2 1/2 milloin! THat’s a LOT more than you said hear! So I aggree, but lets get our numbers right to show that wer’e smarter than the gun GRABERS LIBS! GO NRA GO! If any of you getto nigers come to steal m y truck, I will PWN you with my rifel!

HA HA LOL LOL YOUR RITE, the libs are STUPIDE! NOT like us, we have smarte names like NRA FOUREVER and WHITECRACKER to show what we think clear and clean! Plus, we barricaede ourself in our house with guns b/c of our fear of the world! Esp. the nigers! Its not b/c were inseckure, its b/c its our RITEs gave by JESIS! Plus we love being intimete with our guns! GO NRA GO!​

Then you may recall our old pal Alex Tristan Riley, whose blog mysteriously vanished after he became a Board Member of Ceasefire PA, an anti-gun group affiliated with Bryan Miller’s Ceasefire NJ. The reason was probably because he was bigoted against gays, Catholics and Muslims. That he advocated violence against people on sex offender registries. And that he is generally a disgusting human being. Well, I’m sure Ceasefire PA did not want to be associated with the likes of that and that is likely why Alex Tristan Riley’s various blogs have disappeared. Riley even went to the trouble of having them removed from the Wayback Machine and Google Cache. Some fine examples of Riley’s wisdom can be seen here.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised to learn that a preponderance of evidence indicates that either NRAFOUREVER and Alex Tristan Riley are the same person. Or, I suppose it’s possible, there are just two bigoted lunatics sharing an IP address. Thirdpower shows some of the evidence. And Robb Allen has a lot more.

Armed and Safe has some more evidence and even more witty prose from our pal. Yuri has a summary. Sebastian has some screencaps of NRAFOUREVER’s work. Here’s a yahoo cache of NRAFOUREVER’s page (heh, he forgot one cache site). And NRAFOUREVER was pretty active on YouTube. He closed his account but you can still see his vile comments at other videos.

Turns out, Riley’s students aren’t fans either. Of course, given his nature as a sockpuppet, it’s not outside the realm of possibility that he posts there too. And now, some other poster, is threatening a libel suit. Well, truth is a defense.

Kurt wrote a letter to Ceasfire PA.

David has instituted the CeasfirePA Watch.

I have to admit, I am disappointed that what I thought was a new troll just turned out to be one of our old trolls. Anyway, the telling thing about NRAFOUREVER is that he had to create what was the stereotypical gun owner in his mind and act on it on the internet.

This is not the first time there was strong evidence that an anti-gun board member was engaged in sockpuppetery.

Update: Note to instapundit readers: I’m not the one who found this stuff but the other bloggers linked in the post did.

 

[Taomon]

I didnt ask you about committing murder, I asked you about killing someone in the act of self-defense where the only way to stop the attacker was to kill him.

You said:


I ask again:
If you kill someone in the act of self-defense, should you go to jail?

I stated that if I kill someone, even in self defense, then yes I should go to jail. Barring a scenario inwhich Jason or MIchael Myers are unstoppable, there is always an alternative to killing.

I guess you missed that part of the thread.

 

[Taomon]

And you would know you could have stopped it before you were dead how, exactley? ESP perhaps? Seems the only way you would know if you needed to use a gun is if you're dead already.

Did you misunderstand the question, the answer or both?

 

[Taomon]

Im willing to bet that it's true that not a single one of the posters from this thread that woulduse lethal force against a home intruder WANTS to kill anyone. Granted, they may not hesitate to kill but, im betting, if given the choice between a quiet family evening and shooting a burglar they would choose the former every time. There is no reason to suggest that someone hates animals just because they are vocal about using mousetraps on pests.

know what I mean?

Fair enough.