A hometown example of the necessity of gun rights

[Waterrescuedude]

" Originally Posted by R. Crookshank
The general rule is that deadly force may not be used in defense of property; although it may be justified, depending on the circumstances, in self-defense or in defense of one’s home where there is a substantial risk of personal harm. However, when the cops are banging down your door, it’s not advisable to start shooting unless you have a strong death wish or desire to take up residence in a prison cell."

Actually where I live in Nevada there is still a law in effect that says that if you are In fear for you family livestock or property you have every right to shoot them and all they have to be is on your property.

 

[Waterrescuedude]

Wrong again. He will only be subject to criminal action IF he violated the self defense laws of that State, so far it sounds like the cops believe he was justified in his actions. However he could face civil court since bleeding hearts like you think criminals are a protected minority in our citizenry.

Well Said!!

 

[Waterrescuedude]

That is where you are wrong. I am not a bleeding heart. But I will not condone self defense laws that allow citizens to kill - no matter what the circumstance.

Now I have a wife, daughters and an elderly mother in-law in my home. I do not need a gun to negate a home invasion. Why do you gunny?

If someone were to break into your house and try and rape your wife and or daughters there are people like that in this world.. What would you do just sit idly by and say go for it?? Or hope you can get to a phone and call 911 and hope the cops show up fast enough??? **** that in the town I live in the cops won't even respond unless the intruders are at the scene. My house got broken into and no one was there when I got home they would not even respond they sad go to the sub station and fill out a report. You have to be able to defend yourself and sometimes it is best to fight fire with fire. And by the way I hope that scenario never happens to you.

 

[Waterrescuedude]

Here you people seem to think that I am some coward who will give up if my home is broken into. I only stated that I do not need a gun.

My martial arts teacher taught me the following:

Avoid rather than check
Check rather than strike
Strike rather than maim
Maim rather than kill
Never kill.

There are many ways to incapacitate an intruder or intruders. I have several bats, sticks, knives and blunt objects in my home. I have my bare hands. I live by the above rules and always have.

I have never fired a gun and I have never killed another human being.

So why do you need to?

Can you outrun a bullet that travels at over a thousand feet a second????

 

[Waterrescuedude]

"You have called 911 emergency. All lines are busy. Please hold".

I have heard that one before when I had to call 911 once.

 

[Waterrescuedude]

Calling 911 ensures someone will be there to try and investigate what happened to you a couple of hours ago. Police can only prevent a crime if they just happen to accidentally stumble onto it.

And dude, there is NO distance in MY house great enough that I cannot drill an intruder in the head and/or chest. Hope that clears up your opinion that gun owners can't shoot. Most actually can.

And when I was active duty we were trained to go in hammers 2 to the chest 1 to the head. That is my insurance that he cant grab the gun that he just dropped. See I figure if I drop the ****** then he can not go do a year or two in prison and then go on to do it again to an old lady. And it actually saves the taxpayers money so that we don't have to pay for their food and other bullshit

 

[Waterrescuedude]

Perhaps you should fear the GIANT flower head. It can smile and laugh a person to death. Is that your tickle me elmo doll I hear calling you or did you just sit on your whoopi cushion?

 

[Lookout]

Hey Warterrescuedude, welcome to this thread. Wish you would have been here earlier. I think we are prettymuch leaving Taomon alone after he got NUKED yesterday. Check pages 13-15. give him some time to lick his wounds. from post 191 on

 

[Doug]

The idea that we should defend ourselves from violent criminal predators through martial arts is a reactionary one that stems from pre-Enlightenment times.

Then, the biggest and strongest ruled. If you were a woman, are weak, or disabled, or old ... too bad, unless you found a powerful protector.

Even warfare was restricted to nobles plus highly-trained mercenaries.

Firearms changed all that.

With guns, everyone is equal. You can be a six-foot eight-inch barrel-chested bully, and I can be an old lady in a wheelchair, but if I can bring Drs Smith and Wesson in on the case, we're equal.

So guns are a tool of democracy. They are the peoples' equalizer, the friend of the little guy.

Those who oppose them on principle are in favor of rule by the fellow with the biggest muscles, or in favor of making us all cringing dependents on the (armed) state, since in fact it will be weak, old and female -- and all other decent people -- who are disarmed, while the criminals retain their weapons.

 

[Waterrescuedude]

I never said I was a bad ass. I only mentioned martial arts because A) the tenets that I previously mentioned that make up my code of ethics and B) because there are joint locks and weapons techniques that can help in some situations.

So what is the scenario that happens usually? How many home invaders use guns? Are the lights on or off?

As far as the lights go if they are off thats what surefire and other wonderful tactical lights are for. or maybe night vision they are great sights to have as well..

 

[Waterrescuedude]

Here you people seem to think that I am some coward who will give up if my home is broken into. I only stated that I do not need a gun.

My martial arts teacher taught me the following:

Avoid rather than check
Check rather than strike
Strike rather than maim
Maim rather than kill
Never kill.

There are many ways to incapacitate an intruder or intruders. I have several bats, sticks, knives and blunt objects in my home. I have my bare hands. I live by the above rules and always have.

I have never fired a gun and I have never killed another human being.

So why do you need to?

Guns were made to kill.. If you get wounded then I am gonna use another round as my insurance that you can NOT get up and CAN NOT cause any harm to my family friends or property PERIOD. Full stop end of story. I go for 2 to the Thoracic cavity and one to your dome you WILL NOT BE GETTING UP PERIOD.

 

[M14 Shooter]

That said, I will not post to this thread anymore. In fact I saw a number of responses by gunny that I will not even read (as it will prompt me to retort unnecessarily). Thanks Shogun.

Run away!! Run away!!

 

[mattskramer]

Here you people seem to think that I am some coward who will give up if my home is broken into. I only stated that I do not need a gun.

My martial arts teacher taught me the following:

Avoid rather than check
Check rather than strike
Strike rather than maim
Maim rather than kill
Never kill.

That sound like a nice sequence of priorities. I would replace the last one. If all else fails and the intruders seems to be more skilled and intent on killing you, shoot to kill.

There are many ways to incapacitate an intruder or intruders. I have several bats, sticks, knives and blunt objects in my home. I have my bare hands. I live by the above rules and always have.

I have never fired a gun and I have never killed another human being.

Good for you. I'm happy for you.

So why do you need to?

Imagine that home owner is unskilled in self defensive martial arts and is faced by an intruder. The intruder is bigger, tougher, stronger, skillful, and angry, armed with a taser and a long blade knife, and is intent on stealing and vandalizing the home. The intruder and homeowner startle each other as the intruder did not expect the home to be occupied. The home owner did not know that there was in intruder until they saw each other. It is too late to call the police. The intruder quickly approaches the startled homeowner. He seems intent on killing the homeowner to leave no witness to his intrusion. He even tells the homeowner this. The homeowner has a loaded handgun on a table beside him. I not only would condone his use of the gun, but would expect him to use it. If the use of the gun results in the intruder’s death (perhaps the homeowner is a bad shot) so be it. Better that that letting the intruder beat the homeowner to death.

Don’t you think that under this scenario the risk of killing the intruder is warranted?

 

[Waterrescuedude]

Gunny, how many home invasions in the US involve automatic weapons? Who has access to an M-16?

I have an MP-5PDW (9MM) has a great selector switch for semi auto three round burst or fully auto and the Newest and greatest the MP-7A1 semi or fully auto at a nice rate of 950 rpm. (4.6X30MM) Now if you don't know guns the Mp-7 will actually penetrate 25 layers of a kevlar vest at 50 meters. I also have the M-4 same thing as the M-16 but it isn't in full auto.. But I do have 100 round drum clips. And mounted on it is a Trijicon ACOG sight mounted on it as well as a laser and a surefire light.

 

[Waterrescuedude]

No, but the people posting in this thread seemed (according to their own words) to be waiting for someone to break in so they can kill them. They seem hell bent on it.

The only thing I am "hell bent" on doing is keeping my family and friends safe.

 

[Waterrescuedude]

If you break someone's arms, they cannot continue raping someone. If you break their back, they cannot do much of anything. If you break their kneecaps, they will not have much fight left in them.

Those things (elbows, knees, back) are more accessible than say the neck or skull. I am guessing that if you have a gun and someone is raping your wife, you can shoot him in the ass, shoot him in the foot, shoot him in the knee. All of which will stop the rape from happening and allow you ample time to subdue that person.

Do you see how killing is not really the only option?

People rape with not their arms but their umm tools....... And as far as yes where you shoot them in the knees or whatever it will stop it but the point is to stop it for good. Why would I want to just "subdue" a shitbag like that???? I want to make sure that he can NOT EVER REPEAT HIS CRIME!!! Meaning he will be 6 feet under.

 

[Waterrescuedude]

I believe that the law in all states shows that if you have a choice between killing and maiming in self defense, one should not commit murder. And that is what it would be.

But I stand by what I said. If I kill, even in self defense, I committed murder and should go to jail.

This guy is just the stupidest mother ****** I have ever met.. How are the cops gonna know if you had the choice to maim or kill when they generally show up after the fact??? If I am fighting for my life there are no rules I will use any advantage I can over them. And I wont shoot just to maim. You have to make sure that they can not grab the gun they dropped so you drop the. I guarantee with two to your chest and one in your head you will never get up again.

 

[Waterrescuedude]

Gunny, you are the most blood thirsty person on this board (according to your machismo laced posts).

Are just a stupid mother ****** with his head stuck so far up you own ass you can't see the light of day!!!! Just because someone would not hesitate to defend themselves that does not make them blood thirsty. In the world we live in it is survival of the fittest. Have you looked in recent months about School shootings and mall shootings and even WOW CHURCH SHOOTINGS???? And in case you have been living under a ******* rock that happened in colorado just a few weeks ago. I have a concealed weapons permit and carry with me 98 percent of the time. I would rather have my gun and not need it than need it and not have it. So what are you gonna use your tool to defend yourself???? What is that shit assault with a friendly weapon?????

 

[Waterrescuedude]

If a skinny unarmed 12-year-old kid walks onto my yard in the middle of the day and approaches my door, and I supposedly feel that my life is being threatened by him, I have a right to use deadly force against him. Thanks for that information. Wait until the neighborhood kids wander onto my yard again.

A 12 year old boy or a girl for that matter can pull a trigger just as easily as you or I and would not really fathom the consequences.

 

[Waterrescuedude]

I am not sidestepping the issue dude. I answered it. There is no instance where you have to kill another human being to stop a rape. There is no instance inwhich you have to kill another human being because alternatives always exist, always.

And because of this, if you kill - even in self defense, you should serve jail time. The judge can grant you a lenient sentence, but jail time must be involved because you committed a grave crime.

I assume that the police are trained to do everything in their power to not kill using their guns. In fact, that is the reason why the Tazer is now used. And mace and some new devices coming out that use microwaves and soundwaves.

What the **** is wrong with an eye for an eye?????? You think that child rapists and serial killers should be allowed to live??????