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Did you miss all the work from 2016 on about mapping out ACTIVE VOLCANIC RIFTS, er, caused by atmospheric CO2 which also tilted Earth's orbitThe grounding line of the WAIS has been retreating for several years now. The bedrock on which the sheet rests is itself, below sea level due to the weight of the ice resting on it for many millennia, though the top of the sheet is many hundreds of feet above sea level. This article explains the mechanics of the glacier and the floating ice sheet and how and why the grounding line is retreating. A complete collapse of the sheet - the retreat of the grounding line to the geographical limits of the sheet - will raise global sea level by 3.3 meters (about eleven feet). Many scientists believe the collapse of the sheet is an irreversible process and the only question is time: how long it will take to happen. It could take a century. It could happen in less than a single year. A ten foot rise in global sea level over the course of one year would be a massively catastrophic event reminiscent of the flooding of the Black Sea through the Bosporus Straits, save on a much larger scale with millions more humans affected.
Guest post: How close is the West Antarctic ice sheet to a ‘tipping point’?
Between its east and west ice sheets and its peninsula, Antarctica holds enough ice to raise global sea levels by around 60m. The West Antarctic ice sheet (WAIS) is a relatively small part, containing an amount of ice equivalent to 3.3m of sea level rise. Yet, most of it sits in a precarious...www.carbonbrief.org
Did you miss all the work from 2016 on about mapping out ACTIVE VOLCANIC RIFTS under those glaciers footings? You must have.. Aint gonna be your guide or sherpa.. There's threads in this forum -- maybe 6 or 8 of them on this,.
Would be a fucking shame if we spent $31Trill "decarbonizing" the atmosphere and THEN discovered the MORE RATIONAL reason for those WAIS glaciers losing their shoreline footings..
Wouldn't it???
Try Evidence of an active volcanic heat source beneath the Pine Island Glacier for a very good article on this specific topic.
...
to date there is no direct evidence of melt by present day volcanism beneath the WAIS.
...
However, the locations and extent of volcanic activity along the WARS are debated, because many of these 138 known volcano-like features are buried beneath several kilometers of ice, and some evidence suggests that much of the interior subglacial WARS is dormant
....
Despite the accumulation of evidence, definitive proof of contemporary subglacial volcanism in West Antarctica is still missing.
.....
Presently, the greatest contributor to ice shelf instability around Antarctica appears to be an increase in ocean heat supply to the cavities of Antarctic ice shelves19. Circumpolar Deep Water (CDW) is the primary heat source for melting glacial ice and its increased presence on the Amundsen Sea continental shelf has been implicated in the rapid melting and grounding line retreat observed beneath the Pine Island Glacier19,20,21 and in the atmospheric warming along the western Antarctic Peninsula22. The ocean–atmosphere mechanisms that draw more CDW onto Antarctic continental shelves are challenging to characterize and remain poorly understood23, although the concentration and distribution of CDW and its year-to-year variations have revealed connections to climatic changes in the regional winds21,24.
That is NOT what the people investigating this very issue say. And you'll have to pardon me if I take their word over yours.
PANIX ! Gentleman start all your engines !Is it time to panic?
The article I linked is from the June 2018 Nature. I have not seen whatever it is you're talking about. I know there has been very recent work, conducted late last year and early this year that shows warmer than expected water sweeping under the WAIS from the deep water current. I think this issue will turn out to be analogous to those who wanted to argue that volcanoes must be the source of all the extra CO2 in the atmosphere until actually checking the numbers it was found that human emissions made the volcanic contribution absolutely trivial. I suspect the amount of heat coming in from the ocean vastly overwhelms an geothermal heating present.Did you miss all the work from 2016 on about mapping out ACTIVE VOLCANIC RIFTS, er, caused by atmospheric CO2 which also tilted Earth's orbitThe grounding line of the WAIS has been retreating for several years now. The bedrock on which the sheet rests is itself, below sea level due to the weight of the ice resting on it for many millennia, though the top of the sheet is many hundreds of feet above sea level. This article explains the mechanics of the glacier and the floating ice sheet and how and why the grounding line is retreating. A complete collapse of the sheet - the retreat of the grounding line to the geographical limits of the sheet - will raise global sea level by 3.3 meters (about eleven feet). Many scientists believe the collapse of the sheet is an irreversible process and the only question is time: how long it will take to happen. It could take a century. It could happen in less than a single year. A ten foot rise in global sea level over the course of one year would be a massively catastrophic event reminiscent of the flooding of the Black Sea through the Bosporus Straits, save on a much larger scale with millions more humans affected.
Guest post: How close is the West Antarctic ice sheet to a ‘tipping point’?
Between its east and west ice sheets and its peninsula, Antarctica holds enough ice to raise global sea levels by around 60m. The West Antarctic ice sheet (WAIS) is a relatively small part, containing an amount of ice equivalent to 3.3m of sea level rise. Yet, most of it sits in a precarious...www.carbonbrief.org
Did you miss all the work from 2016 on about mapping out ACTIVE VOLCANIC RIFTS under those glaciers footings? You must have.. Aint gonna be your guide or sherpa.. There's threads in this forum -- maybe 6 or 8 of them on this,.
Would be a fucking shame if we spent $31Trill "decarbonizing" the atmosphere and THEN discovered the MORE RATIONAL reason for those WAIS glaciers losing their shoreline footings..
Wouldn't it???
Try Evidence of an active volcanic heat source beneath the Pine Island Glacier for a very good article on this specific topic.
...
"...to date there is no direct evidence of melt by present day volcanism beneath the WAIS."
...
"However, the locations and extent of volcanic activity along the WARS are debated, because many of these 138 known volcano-like features are buried beneath several kilometers of ice, and some evidence suggests that much of the interior subglacial WARS is dormant."
....
"Despite the accumulation of evidence, definitive proof of contemporary subglacial volcanism in West Antarctica is still missing."
.....
"Presently, the greatest contributor to ice shelf instability around Antarctica appears to be an increase in ocean heat supply to the cavities of Antarctic ice shelves19. Circumpolar Deep Water (CDW) is the primary heat source for melting glacial ice and its increased presence on the Amundsen Sea continental shelf has been implicated in the rapid melting and grounding line retreat observed beneath the Pine Island Glacier19,20,21 and in the atmospheric warming along the western Antarctic Peninsula22. The ocean–atmosphere mechanisms that draw more CDW onto Antarctic continental shelves are challenging to characterize and remain poorly understood23, although the concentration and distribution of CDW and its year-to-year variations have revealed connections to climatic changes in the regional winds."
Our finding of a substantial volcanic heat source beneath a major WAIS glacier highlights the need to understand subglacial volcanism, its hydrologic interaction with the marine margins, and its potential role in the future stability of the WAIS.]
I saw that text. I also saw the text I quoted from the very same article. Grimsvotn was used as a comparison, I believe, because it is completely subglacial. It is not particularly large, so being half its size does not make this Pine Island volcano a significant player. The reason for the article is because this is apparently the first clear evidence found of active volcanism under the ice. The authors did NOT conclude that it was the cause of the retreat of the WAIS grounding line or any other dynamic currently ascribed to global warming.
Bullshit. NOTHING you have posted here gives that conclusion. Here are several contemporary studies (and an article) finding water warmer than expected responsible for the grounding line retreat under Thwaites.
Science | AAAS
advances.sciencemag.org
Pathways of ocean heat towards Pine Island and Thwaites grounding lines - Scientific Reports
In the Amundsen Sea, modified Circumpolar Deep Water (mCDW) intrudes into ice shelf cavities, causing high ice shelf melting near the ice sheet grounding lines, accelerating ice flow, and controlling the pace of future Antarctic contributions to global sea level. The pathways of mCDW towards...www.nature.com
How much, how fast?: A science review and outlook for research on the instability of Antarctica's Thwaites Glacier in the 21st century
Constraining how much and how fast the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) will change in the coming decades has recently been identified as the highest p…www.sciencedirect.com
Damage accelerates ice shelf instability and mass loss in Amundsen Sea Embayment
Pine Island Glacier and Thwaites Glacier in the Amundsen Sea Embayment are among the fastest changing outlet glaciers in Antarctica. Yet, projecting the future of these glaciers remains a major uncertainty for sea level rise. Here we use satellite imagery to show the development of damage areas...www.pnas.org
Thwaites and Pine Island Glaciers Rapid Melting Could Cause Four Foot Global Sea Level Rise | Climate and Global Change Center | University of Pittsburgh
Thwaites and Pine Island Glaciers Rapid Melting Could Cause Four Foot Global Sea Level Rise Caroline Weisswww.climatecenter.pitt.edu
Bullshit. NOTHING you have posted here gives that conclusion. Here are several contemporary studies (and an article) finding water warmer than expected responsible for the grounding line retreat under Thwaites.
Science | AAAS
advances.sciencemag.org
Pathways of ocean heat towards Pine Island and Thwaites grounding lines - Scientific Reports
In the Amundsen Sea, modified Circumpolar Deep Water (mCDW) intrudes into ice shelf cavities, causing high ice shelf melting near the ice sheet grounding lines, accelerating ice flow, and controlling the pace of future Antarctic contributions to global sea level. The pathways of mCDW towards...www.nature.com
How much, how fast?: A science review and outlook for research on the instability of Antarctica's Thwaites Glacier in the 21st century
Constraining how much and how fast the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) will change in the coming decades has recently been identified as the highest p…www.sciencedirect.com
Damage accelerates ice shelf instability and mass loss in Amundsen Sea Embayment
Pine Island Glacier and Thwaites Glacier in the Amundsen Sea Embayment are among the fastest changing outlet glaciers in Antarctica. Yet, projecting the future of these glaciers remains a major uncertainty for sea level rise. Here we use satellite imagery to show the development of damage areas...www.pnas.org
Thwaites and Pine Island Glaciers Rapid Melting Could Cause Four Foot Global Sea Level Rise | Climate and Global Change Center | University of Pittsburgh
Thwaites and Pine Island Glaciers Rapid Melting Could Cause Four Foot Global Sea Level Rise Caroline Weisswww.climatecenter.pitt.edu
All you're doing is tossing up with personal contextual understanding. Most of those papers are simply mapping and modeling the fractures at the seaside edges of those glaciers WITHOUT a lot of discussion as to fundamental MECHANISMS causing the damage.
CONTEXT is KEY here.. You have magnetometry studies showing ACTIVE VOLCANIC FISSURES all thru that area. With several papers MEASURING the power output potential of the heating and SHOWING the certainty that it melting the ENTIRE footing at the bedrock.. You poo-poo'd 1000MWatss of power estimated. That's enough to continually power ONE MILLION HOMES!
And the other context you're missing is that that power is present under IMMENSE PRESSURE -- causing TEMPERATURES TO SOAR from being under the weight of a several hundred meters of ice. So even small power forcings have enhanced heating and damage potential..
Your 1st link is the only detailed description of "warm water channels" that flow AROUND the footing of those glaciers. At about 1DegC -- these are not EVEN warm water. But they could contribute to etching out channels in the footing at DEPTHS of over 100 meters.
Now realize that those "warm currents" have been a PERMANENT FEATURE of this planet since the first Ice Age. So they are NOT NEW, not KNOWN to be warming from global warming and certainly have had 10s of 1000s of years to DO their damage. These are part of the north-south ocean thermodynamics that take heat from the tropics and remove cooler ocean waters and send them back north..
Best part of the links I reviewed was the PNAS paper about the "Damage Assessment".. In that paper there's a video showing a progression of the GROWTH of the "ice tongue" at the Pig Island Glacier. (the PIG) Video uses the available satellite record since 1973 to show the LOSS of the ice at the seaward edge of the PIG. NOTE: that in that video -- most of the impressive calving and retreat ONLY OCCURS IN THE PAST FIVE years of so of that 40 year time period !!!!! Seemingly NOT RELATED to a ocean current theory about a mechanism that's BEEN THERE for 300,000 years at least..
Watch the video --
Bullshit. NOTHING you have posted here gives that conclusion. Here are several contemporary studies (and an article) finding water warmer than expected responsible for the grounding line retreat under Thwaites.
Science | AAAS
advances.sciencemag.org
Pathways of ocean heat towards Pine Island and Thwaites grounding lines - Scientific Reports
In the Amundsen Sea, modified Circumpolar Deep Water (mCDW) intrudes into ice shelf cavities, causing high ice shelf melting near the ice sheet grounding lines, accelerating ice flow, and controlling the pace of future Antarctic contributions to global sea level. The pathways of mCDW towards...www.nature.com
How much, how fast?: A science review and outlook for research on the instability of Antarctica's Thwaites Glacier in the 21st century
Constraining how much and how fast the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS) will change in the coming decades has recently been identified as the highest p…www.sciencedirect.com
Damage accelerates ice shelf instability and mass loss in Amundsen Sea Embayment
Pine Island Glacier and Thwaites Glacier in the Amundsen Sea Embayment are among the fastest changing outlet glaciers in Antarctica. Yet, projecting the future of these glaciers remains a major uncertainty for sea level rise. Here we use satellite imagery to show the development of damage areas...www.pnas.org
Thwaites and Pine Island Glaciers Rapid Melting Could Cause Four Foot Global Sea Level Rise | Climate and Global Change Center | University of Pittsburgh
Thwaites and Pine Island Glaciers Rapid Melting Could Cause Four Foot Global Sea Level Rise Caroline Weisswww.climatecenter.pitt.edu
All you're doing is tossing up with personal contextual understanding. Most of those papers are simply mapping and modeling the fractures at the seaside edges of those glaciers WITHOUT a lot of discussion as to fundamental MECHANISMS causing the damage.
CONTEXT is KEY here.. You have magnetometry studies showing ACTIVE VOLCANIC FISSURES all thru that area. With several papers MEASURING the power output potential of the heating and SHOWING the certainty that it melting the ENTIRE footing at the bedrock.. You poo-poo'd 1000MWatss of power estimated. That's enough to continually power ONE MILLION HOMES!
And the other context you're missing is that that power is present under IMMENSE PRESSURE -- causing TEMPERATURES TO SOAR from being under the weight of a several hundred meters of ice. So even small power forcings have enhanced heating and damage potential..
Your 1st link is the only detailed description of "warm water channels" that flow AROUND the footing of those glaciers. At about 1DegC -- these are not EVEN warm water. But they could contribute to etching out channels in the footing at DEPTHS of over 100 meters.
Now realize that those "warm currents" have been a PERMANENT FEATURE of this planet since the first Ice Age. So they are NOT NEW, not KNOWN to be warming from global warming and certainly have had 10s of 1000s of years to DO their damage. These are part of the north-south ocean thermodynamics that take heat from the tropics and remove cooler ocean waters and send them back north..
Best part of the links I reviewed was the PNAS paper about the "Damage Assessment".. In that paper there's a video showing a progression of the GROWTH of the "ice tongue" at the Pig Island Glacier. (the PIG) Video uses the available satellite record since 1973 to show the LOSS of the ice at the seaward edge of the PIG. NOTE: that in that video -- most of the impressive calving and retreat ONLY OCCURS IN THE PAST FIVE years of so of that 40 year time period !!!!! Seemingly NOT RELATED to a ocean current theory about a mechanism that's BEEN THERE for 300,000 years at least..
Watch the video --
Show us the specific text in your sources that claim that their magnetometer data indicate those volcanoes are CURENTLY active. What I see and copied up here are statements indicating that the anomalies detected ARE ANOMALIES because their polarity is different than the current magnetic field orientation and thus they were laid down PRIOR to the last pole reversal, 780,000 years ago. If not, why the fuck would anyone be using a magnetometer to find them?!?!?