'A Cloud Still Hangs Over Bhopal'

[midcan5]

Where does morality enter and why does it so often hide.

By Suketu Mehta

"This is the 25th anniversary of the Bhopal gas disaster, an epic mess that started one night when a pesticide plant owned by the American chemical giant Union Carbide leaked a cloud of poisonous gas. Before the sun rose, almost 4,000 human beings capable of love and anguish sank to their knees and did not get up. Half a million more fell ill, many with severely damaged lungs and eyes.

An additional 15,000 people have since died from the aftereffects, and 10 to 30 people are said to die every month from exposure to the hundreds of tons of toxic waste left over in the former factory. But amazingly, the site still has not been cleaned up, because Dow Chemical, which since acquired Union Carbide, refuses to accept any responsibility. The groundwater is contaminated; children of the survivors suffer from genetic abnormalities; and the victims have long since run out of their measly compensation and are begging on the streets."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/opinion/03mehta.html?em

And check out Jensen for a long dialogue on these topics.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Make-Believe-Derrick-Jensen/dp/1931498571/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259931676&sr=1-7]Amazon.com: The Culture of Make Believe (9781931498579): Derrick Jensen: Books[/ame]

 

[uscitizen]

Not exactly capitalism's finest hour.
But fairly typical of them.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

A screw up of that nature should be the end of a corporation. Thank the lawyers that idiots can continue to stay in business.

 

[uscitizen]

Moralilty is replaced by profit in corporations. Why we need regulations on businesses.

 

[Samson]

A screw up of that nature should be the end of a corporation. Thank the lawyers that idiots can continue to stay in business.

Thank the Lawyers? WTF are you babbling about? UCC is no longer in business

Moralilty is replaced by profit in corporations. Why we need regulations on businesses.

We do need some regulation of business.

But, not because chemical companies intentionally poison the communities in which they operate. What would motivate any company to do this? There's no "Morality" question here, only one of incompetance.

 

[L.K.Eder]

ucc is pretty much in business.

 

[goldcatt]

A screw up of that nature should be the end of a corporation. Thank the lawyers that idiots can continue to stay in business.

Thank the Lawyers? WTF are you babbling about? UCC is no longer in business

Moralilty is replaced by profit in corporations. Why we need regulations on businesses.

We do need some regulation of business.

But, not because chemical companies intentionally poison the communities in which they operate. What would motivate any company to do this? There's no "Morality" question here, only one of incompetance.

The US alone has a disgusting history of companies of all kinds intentionally poisoning the communities where they operate as well as being incompetent. Look at Crayola and the associated cancer cluster in part of southeast PA, for just one example. If illegal chemical dumping is more cost effective than paying the fines if caught, some will do it. Regulation serves as deterrence.

 

[dilloduck]

Has Dow Chemical ever done anything that helped people ? I'm betting they have. Shouldn't we be looking at the big picture ?

 

[Samson]

The US alone has a disgusting history of companies of all kinds intentionally poisoning the communities where they operate as well as being incompetent. Look at Crayola and the associated cancer cluster in part of southeast PA, for just one example. If illegal chemical dumping is more cost effective than paying the fines if caught, some will do it. Regulation serves as deterrence.

Absolutely correct.

The key word here is HISTORY.

The US also has a "disgusting history" of plantations using slave labor. Does this mean that the NYT will write a commemorative artical every year reminding us about the EVULS of farming?

 

[L.K.Eder]

it is not HISTORY.

the chemicals are still on site and polluting and poisoning and killing people who live in the vicinity. someone should clean this shit up, no? maybe the one responsible for this mess?

 

[goldcatt]

it is not HISTORY.

the chemicals are still on site and polluting and poisoning and killing people who live in the vicinity. someone should clean this shit up, no? maybe the one responsible for this mess?

The one responsible for the mess can't, unfortunately. So who should take on the effort and expense? That's the problem, these companies go under and the successors if there are any don't want to take it on. I can't blame them, but when one buys the assets shouldn't the responsibilities go with it?

 

[Samson]

it is not HISTORY.

the chemicals are still on site and polluting and poisoning and killing people who live in the vicinity. someone should clean this shit up, no? maybe the one responsible for this mess?

Is there no EPA?

Is there no SuperFund?

What I mean by "History" is the UNregulated pollution that was going on before 1970:

Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), independent agency of the U.S. government, with headquarters in Washington, D.C. It was established in 1970 to reduce and control air and water pollution, noise pollution, and radiation and to ensure the safe handling and disposal of toxic substances.

The EPA engages in research, monitoring, and the setting and enforcement of national standards. It administers the Environmental Response, Compensation and Liability Act of 1980, popularly called “Superfund,” an act aimed at restoring toxic waste sites by making the responsible parties finance their cleanup.

It also issues statements on the impact of operations of other federal agencies that are detrimental to environmental quality, and it supports the antipollution activities of states, municipalities, and public and private groups

 

[goldcatt]

Has Dow Chemical ever done anything that helped people ? I'm betting they have. Shouldn't we be looking at the big picture ?

Of course we should, and give credit where credit is due. But if we were talking about an individual, would giving to charity and being productive at work negate responsibility for his or her negligence killing a few thousand people? IMO, no. Why should a company be any different?

 

[Samson]

Has Dow Chemical ever done anything that helped people ? I'm betting they have. Shouldn't we be looking at the big picture ?

That would complicate matters for the NYT.

Its much easier to simply attack a giant like Dow by making accusations about an incident in an insecticide plant that they didn't own 25 years ago.

What would be difficult to define would be the number of people that did NOT die of famine or disease because they were able to destroy harmful insects.

 

[xsited1]

And they never caught the disgruntled Indian worker who caused the accident in the first place.

 

[Samson]

And they never caught the disgruntled Indian worker who caused the accident in the first place.

Regardless.

Companies today don't allow access to areas of their manufacturing facilities that any one individual can cause such catostropic events. These areas are monitored, and controlled to shut down the process should an intentional or accidental leak occur.

 

[L.K.Eder]

it is not HISTORY.

the chemicals are still on site and polluting and poisoning and killing people who live in the vicinity. someone should clean this shit up, no? maybe the one responsible for this mess?

The one responsible for the mess can't, unfortunately. So who should take on the effort and expense? That's the problem, these companies go under and the successors if there are any don't want to take it on. I can't blame them, but when one buys the assets shouldn't the responsibilities go with it?

oh, the responsible ones can. but warren anderson will not be extradited, e.g. and dow chemical will continue to find a way to dodge paying, as did UCC. UCC did not go under. they still produce and deliver, most of it to dow. they are a wholly owned subsidiary.

 

[Samson]

oh, the responsible ones can. but warren anderson will not be extradited, e.g. and dow chemical will continue to find a way to dodge paying, as did UCC. UCC did not go under. they still produce and deliver, most of it to dow. they are a wholly owned subsidiary.

So, you think all the "heritage UCC plants" should be shut down? What would that accomplish?

I'm curious, does anyone know how much the Indian Government fined UCC?

 

[xsited1]

And they never caught the disgruntled Indian worker who caused the accident in the first place.

Regardless.

Companies today don't allow access to areas of their manufacturing facilities that any one individual can cause such catostropic events. These areas are monitored, and controlled to shut down the process should an intentional or accidental leak occur.

Yep. Sabotage always brings about changes. Remember when you could buy Tylenol capsules or when you used to be able to meet someone at the gate of an airport?

 

[xsited1]

oh, the responsible ones can. but warren anderson will not be extradited, e.g. and dow chemical will continue to find a way to dodge paying, as did UCC. UCC did not go under. they still produce and deliver, most of it to dow. they are a wholly owned subsidiary.

So, you think all the "heritage UCC plants" should be shut down? What would that accomplish?

I'm curious, does anyone know how much the Indian Government fined UCC?

Madhya Pradesh Government : Bhopal Gas Tragedy Relief and Rehabilitation Department, Bhopal