A Call to Arms for Europe: Americans are not alone in viewing Trump as a Traitor

[Sherlock Holmes]

For those interested in reality and rare earths:

To begin with, the contentious 28 February Oval Office meeting can’t be understood without a crucial piece of context: there are no deposits of rare-earth ore in Ukraine known to be minable in an economically viable way. And that would be true even if full-scale warfare were not raging in the country’s east, where a great deal of its mineral resources are concentrated.

Oval Office Outburst Reveals Flaws in U.S.-Ukraine Rare Earth Minerals Deal

A chaotic Oval Office press conference on Feb. 28 revealed a nonsensical U.S.-Ukraine deal for rare earths, baffling experts who knew Ukraine lacks viable deposits. Is Trump’s rare-earth strategy misguided political theater? With China dominating the market, why ignore U.S. resources...

spectrum.ieee.org

These (so called) "rare" earths are critically important in modern electronics, the IEEE (and its flagship journal Spectrum) is the premier international academic institution that represents electrical engineering which for those who don't know is a little bit more sophisticated than talking about how to wire a house.

IEEE members represent the world's most expert scientists and engineers when it comes to rare earth elements.

 

[TimFitz]

Your "Russia. Russia, Russia" conspiracy theory was a failure years ago.

Give it a rest, bunky.
,

Ah yes! The standard Trumpster dismissal. Empty and false.

Trump’s coordination with Russians during the 2016 election have been documented in detail, and never challenged or refuted. The “z collusion” was fact.

Trump’s ongoing pandering to zputin is also well documented.

And he is clearly acting as Russia’s ally in his bellicoseattempt to bully Ukraine into a “cease fire”, in return for nothing from either Moscow or Trump.

Zelensky imprisons his political opponents, canceled the elections, and has taken over the media.

Sounds pretty dictatorial to normal people.

Especially to those who tow the Trump/Moscow talking points. Even though they know they’re dishonest. They’d rather keep repeating the lie.

 

[Couchpotato]

If it didn't matter why would trump raise it? make the claim at all?

I totally agree with you on that point, but Zelensky isn't a dictator, he's other things of course but not a dictator - or is he?

It doesn't give a shit nor did I say or even imply that it did.

You're missing the point.

Our (US Government) policy toward Ukraine has nothing to do with whether Zelensky is a dictator, a king, was democratically elected with 100% of the vote or they think he was anointed by God himself to be leader of Ukraine. Whether or not it's Zelensky or insert random Ukrainian citizen as the leader of Ukraine is irrelevant. Our foreign policy toward Ukraine is 100% driven by our desire (for some unknown reason) to have an adversarial relationship with Russia. That is why I couldn't care less whether Zelensky is a dictator or whether the President believes him to be one or not. It wouldn't change the US Government's stance toward Ukraine and specifically this conflict so why would I care? The color of Zelensky's eyes has as much to do with our foreign policy regarding Ukraine as his status as a dictator.

If Zelensky declared himself dictator for life do you believe the war hawks will change their opinion vis a vis our support in this conflict? If you do you're kidding yourself.

 

[Couchpotato]

See post 102 Dum Dum.

You're article doesn't make sense given that we KNOW for a fact (we've seen the actual deal) negotiated in March/April of 2022 had Russia giving all the territory it took from Ukraine to that point back to Ukraine. We are supposed be believe that Putin was dead set on taking part of Ukraine and rejected a deal which gave him all he wanted and then having done so was willing to give it back to get the same security assurances? Does that make sense to you?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

You're missing the point.

Our (US Government) policy toward Ukraine has nothing to do with whether Zelensky is a dictator, a king, was democratically elected with 100% of the vote or they think he was anointed by God himself to be leader of Ukraine. Whether or not it's Zelensky or insert random Ukrainian citizen as the leader of Ukraine is irrelevant. Our foreign policy toward Ukraine is 100% driven by our desire (for some unknown reason) to have an adversarial relationship with Russia.

I agree and it's largely attributable to the Truman Doctrine I think.

That is why I couldn't care less whether Zelensky is a dictator or whether the President believes him to be one or not.

Fair enough, but the thrust of my earlier post was focused on whether trump understands what a dictator actually is and why he distanced himself from what he said a few days before. He's either flighty or really doesn't understand the world around him and I really think it's the latter and that's hugely important for a person wielding the power he does.

It wouldn't change the US Government's stance toward Ukraine and specifically this conflict so why would I care? The color of Zelensky's eyes has as much to do with our foreign policy regarding Ukraine as his status as a dictator.

If Zelensky declared himself dictator for life do you believe the war hawks will change their opinion vis a vis our support in this conflict? If you do you're kidding yourself.

Well we likely agree on Ukraine vs Russia, my earlier posts were not defending Zelensky, I think he bears huge responsibility for the start of hostilities and I am disappointed to see the EU pursuing confrontation with Russia to an even more worrying level than the US by advocating installing "peacekeepers" in Ukraine.

I'd hoped that trump would simply make a decision to cease military aid to Ukraine, period and be done with it but he has not, he could but he won't, he is playing some game and I have no idea why. Why are we still spending US taxpayer dollars on this? why are we involved at all?

Just like previous presidents he's meddling in a foreign war, he's not really any different, he stopped arms and intelligence being supplied and then a few days later resumed it, he's meddling, no different to previous president's when all is said and done.

 

[MisterBeale]

Trump’s coordination with Russians during the 2016 election have been documented in detail, and never challenged or refuted. The “z collusion” was fact.

Mueller finds no collusion with Russia, leaves obstruction question open

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation did not find sufficient evidence that President Donald Trump’s campaign coordinated with Russia to influence the United States’ 2016 election and did not take a clear position on whether Trump obstructed justice.

www.americanbar.org

No collusion: Key takeaways from Mueller's Russia findings

WASHINGTON (AP) — Special counsel Robert Mueller spent 22 months examining whether Donald Trump's campaign conspired with Russia to sway the 2016 election.

apnews.com

Mueller finds no proof of Trump collusion with Russia; AG Barr says evidence ‘not sufficient’ to prosecute

"(W)hile this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him," the special counsel said in his report.

www.nbcnews.com

Mueller report finds no Trump-Russia collusion, but does not exonerate president, attorney general says

U.S. Representative Jerry Nadler on Sunday started tweeting what he called a very brief letter the Mueller report to members of Congress.

www.pbs.org

 

[Couchpotato]

I agree and it's largely attributable to the Truman Doctrine I think.

Fair enough, but the thrust of my earlier post was focused on whether trump understands what a dictator actually is and why he distanced himself from what he said a few days before. He's either flighty or really doesn't understand the world around him and I really think it's the latter and that's hugely important for a person wielding the power he does.

Well we likely agree on Ukraine vs Russia, my earlier posts were not defending Zelensky, I think he bears huge responsibility for the start of hostilities and I am disappointed to see the EU pursuing confrontation with Russia to an even more worrying level than the US by advocating installing "peacekeepers" in Ukraine.

Again Trump may think Zelensky is a dictator because he's suspended elections due to the war. Or he may have been engaging in hyperbole or some other thing. Why does it matter if our foreign policy wouldn't change regardless of what he thinks on that specific issue? That's the point. You're focused on this issue because you think you can score a point against Trump. Here you scored the point. Happy? Now explain why the point matters.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Mueller finds no collusion with Russia, leaves obstruction question open

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation did not find sufficient evidence that President Donald Trump’s campaign coordinated with Russia to influence the United States’ 2016 election and did not take a clear position on whether Trump obstructed justice.

www.americanbar.org

No collusion: Key takeaways from Mueller's Russia findings

WASHINGTON (AP) — Special counsel Robert Mueller spent 22 months examining whether Donald Trump's campaign conspired with Russia to sway the 2016 election.

apnews.com

Mueller finds no proof of Trump collusion with Russia; AG Barr says evidence ‘not sufficient’ to prosecute

"(W)hile this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him," the special counsel said in his report.

www.nbcnews.com

Mueller report finds no Trump-Russia collusion, but does not exonerate president, attorney general says

U.S. Representative Jerry Nadler on Sunday started tweeting what he called a very brief letter the Mueller report to members of Congress.

www.pbs.org

Don't bother, he's just a propagandist.

 

[Couchpotato]

Mueller finds no collusion with Russia, leaves obstruction question open

Special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation did not find sufficient evidence that President Donald Trump’s campaign coordinated with Russia to influence the United States’ 2016 election and did not take a clear position on whether Trump obstructed justice.

www.americanbar.org

No collusion: Key takeaways from Mueller's Russia findings

WASHINGTON (AP) — Special counsel Robert Mueller spent 22 months examining whether Donald Trump's campaign conspired with Russia to sway the 2016 election.

apnews.com

Mueller finds no proof of Trump collusion with Russia; AG Barr says evidence ‘not sufficient’ to prosecute

"(W)hile this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him," the special counsel said in his report.

www.nbcnews.com

Mueller report finds no Trump-Russia collusion, but does not exonerate president, attorney general says

U.S. Representative Jerry Nadler on Sunday started tweeting what he called a very brief letter the Mueller report to members of Congress.

www.pbs.org

Yeah but there was no proof that it didnt happen........

 

[MisterBeale]

Yeah but there was no proof that it didnt happen........

No proof that Bill Clinton, G. Bush, Obama and Trump weren't complicit in Epstein's revolting activities either.


I get that you might not be an American, but in this nation. . . innocent until PROVED guilty.

 

[Hollie]

Ah yes! The standard Trumpster dismissal. Empty and false.

Trump’s coordination with Russians during the 2016 election have been documented in detail, and never challenged or refuted. The “z collusion” was fact.

Trump’s ongoing pandering to zputin is also well documented.

And he is clearly acting as Russia’s ally in his bellicoseattempt to bully Ukraine into a “cease fire”, in return for nothing from either Moscow or Trump.

Especially to those who tow the Trump/Moscow talking points. Even though they know they’re dishonest. They’d rather keep repeating the lie.

Ah, yes. The Russia collusion conspiracy theories that lidtoids can’t let go of.

 

[Hollie]

Yeah but there was no proof that it didnt happen........

There is proof it didn’t happen. Prove there isn’t.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Again Trump may think Zelensky is a dictator because he's suspended elections due to the war.

Right but the President of the United States has no excuse for not understanding that Ukraine's constitution prohibits elections under martial law, for him to not know this raises the prospect that he could make decisions of earth shattering import based on a complete ignorance of reality, that's not a desirable trait for a president - IMHO anyway.

Or he may have been engaging in hyperbole or some other thing.

Well if he expects people - Americans - to believe him a rational man would not speak this way, how can one trust anything he says when the next day he can deny even saying it?

Why does it matter if our foreign policy wouldn't change regardless of what he thinks on that specific issue?

But our foreign policy is changing, very much so too and we have no idea whether he's knows what he's talking about or not. He's openly talking about militarily engaging against Greenland, Canada, Panama and Mexico. He's alienating long standing allies and at the same time seeking help from them, it's a recipe for disaster.

That's the point. You're focused on this issue because you think you can score a point against Trump.

No scoring a "point against" trump is not the goal, it is a means to an end, it is a way of encouraging people to think for themselves, to understand that their trust is misplaced if we can't trust his knowledge or words. Trump is a danger, and I all am doing is giving supporting evidence for that claim.

Here you scored the point. Happy? Now explain why the point matters.

Well I just did above I think, pointing out risks is not "point scoring", pointing out that the aircraft door is not locked is not "point scoring" against the cabin crew surely? would you say nothing in that situation? would you avoid pointing it out in case people accuse you of picking on the cabin crew? trying to embarrass them? trying to attack them?

 

[Hollie]

You're article doesn't make sense given that we KNOW for a fact (we've seen the actual deal) negotiated in March/April of 2022 had Russia giving all the territory it took from Ukraine to that point back to Ukraine. We are supposed be believe that Putin was dead set on taking part of Ukraine and rejected a deal which gave him all he wanted and then having done so was willing to give it back to get the same security assurances? Does that make sense to you?

Your confusion is obvious as there was only an “agreement in principle” in 2002. We are supposed to believe that an agreement never brought to fruition was some “actual deal” that you fantasize about?

 

[Couchpotato]

Right but the President of the United States has no excuse for not understanding that Ukraine's constitution prohibits elections under martial law, for him to not know this raises the prospect that he could make decisions of earth shattering import based on a complete ignorance of reality, that's not a desirable trait for a president - IMHO anyway.

Don't care. Because our policy isn't affected by it. If I thought our stance on Ukraine had anything to do with Ukraine's Constitution and how they elected their leaders, it might matter whether the President understood it. Since I know for a fact, we don't give 2 shits what does it matter? Are you under the illusion that the US Government cares what form of Government other countries have? Let me assure you they don't so long as that country's leadership does the things the US government wants.

Well if he expects people - Americans - to believe him a rational man would not speak this way, how can one trust anything he says when the next day he can deny even saying it?

Again I just dont care. I agree with his policy that we should end this war. The why of it I'm less concerned about.

But our foreign policy is changing, very much so too and we have no idea whether he's knows what he's talking about or not. He's openly talking about militarily engaging against Greenland, Canada, Panama and Mexico. He's alienating long standing allies and at the same time seeking help from them, it's a recipe for disaster.

Our policy is changing but it has zero to do with Zelensky's status as a dictator. If Zelensky went on international TV today and declared himself dictator for life of Ukraine would the people who think we should continue funding this war change their minds? Would the people who think we shouldnt change theirs? Im betting the vast majority wouldnt and certainly the people who are deciding that wouldnt so what does it matter?

No scoring a "point against" trump is not the goal, it is a means to an end, it is a way of encouraging people to think for themselves, to understand that their trust is misplaced if we can't trust his knowledge or words. Trump is a danger, and I all am doing is giving supporting evidence for that claim.

The "trust" they have in Trump is that they agree with him that we shouldn't be funding endless wars all over the planet. If he thinks that because he thinks Zelensky is a dictator why the fuck do I care? Seriously? Why does it matter?

Well I just did above I think, pointing out risks is not "point scoring", pointing out that aircraft door is not locked is not "point scoring" against the cabin crew surely?

 

[Couchpotato]

Your confusion is obvious as there was only an “agreement in principle” in 2002. We are supposed to believe that an agreement never brought to fruition was some “actual deal” that you fantasize about?

2022. Both sides were in agreement, and it was going to be signed until the US and West intervened.

Russia sent a draft agreement to NATO and the US prior to the invasion that stated that if NATO and the US would agree to allow Ukraine into NATO he would back off.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Don't care. Because our policy isn't affected by it. If I thought our stance on Ukraine had anything to do with Ukraine's Constitution and how they elected their leaders, it might matter whether the President understood it. Since I know for a fact, we don't give 2 shits what does it matter? Are you under the illusion that the US Government cares what form of Government other countries have? Let me assure you they don't so long as that country's leadership does the things the US government wants.

Again I just dont care. I agree with his policy that we should end this war. The why of it I'm less concerned about.

Why? to save lives? to avoid wasting money? some other goal? How can you be eager to see some outcome yet be unable to say why you're eager? To say you care and don't care at the same time makes you sound like Trump.

Our policy is changing but it has zero to do with Zelensky's status as a dictator. If Zelensky went on international TV today and declared himself dictator for life of Ukraine would the people who think we should continue funding this war change their minds? Would the people who think we shouldnt change theirs? Im betting the vast majority wouldnt and certainly the people who are deciding that wouldnt so what does it matter?

The "trust" they have in Trump is that they agree with him that we shouldn't be funding endless wars all over the planet. If he thinks that because he thinks Zelensky is a dictator why the fuck do I care? Seriously? Why does it matter?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I saw that report and my wife who's a linguist with a specialization in French first found it on French news and it is indeed hard hitting. Outside of the US many people are dismayed, actually almost in disbelief that this country could opt to commit national suicide by voting for a such an obvious mental case.

As France commits suicide by Islam's sword. Funny, that.

 

[Couchpotato]

Why? to save lives? to avoid wasting money? some other goal? How can you be eager to see some outcome yet have no reason why? To say you care and don't care at the same time makes you sound like Trump.

Because it's a stupid war we pushed both sides into that serves no national interest for the US. Sorry but I don't think spending hundreds of billions of dollars on stupid wars is a good use of US taxpayer dollars. Especially given our current financial state. If Ukraine and Europe want to escalate this into a regional war that's on them we shouldn't fund it.

Why are you so eager to support it?

 

[Hollie]

2022. Both sides were in agreement, and it was going to be signed until the US and West intervened.

Russia sent a draft agreement to NATO and the US prior to the invasion that stated that if NATO and the US would agree to allow Ukraine into NATO he would back

“Both sides were in agreement”…. “because I say so”.

There was nothing more than an “agreement in principle”. That’s not a formal agreement. We’re seeing the same situation now where Putin has “agreed in principle” to a ceasefire but is already waffling with conditions and exceptions.

The eastward expansion of NATO was a direct threat to Russia.

Did NATO ‘betray’ Russia by expanding to the East?

The Kremlin claims the West broke a promise it made in the 1990s not to expand NATO, and is now using this claim to justify threats to invade Ukraine.

www.france24.com

How did the US respond when Nikita Khrushchev put missiles in Cuba?