A brief history of (Christian) God

[Czernobog]

#10 Still bewildered by the evil

God still allows mankind his free will to choose between right and wrong because he knows that man does not become a good being in and of himself by force. God holds to free will because it is the only way mankind can truly become good beings. And when man chooses evil or simply by virtue of the fact the principle of evil exists, some will blame God for it. God has always known that man would have his free will and that some would choose evil over good. That is the price of having goodness exist and freewill. Was God bewildered? Not even close. God knew that man in his imperfect state would make bad choices and prepared a way for them to overcome the bad by planning for the atonement before the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:18-21
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Your god just makes no sense. Epicurus figured it out 2300 years ago:

If your god is willing to prevent evil, but not able
Then he is not omnipotent.

If he is not willing to prevent evil, but able
Then he is malevolent.

If he is willing, and able
From whence cometh evil?

If he is neither willing, nor able
Then why call him God?

.

being Triumphant against evil is a minimal requirement for Admission to the Everlasting. or just perish when your time is up, life is a test for everyone where success is the only means for advancement.

So the God you imagine is malevolent. Got it.

 

[Czernobog]

#10 Still bewildered by the evil

God still allows mankind his free will to choose between right and wrong because he knows that man does not become a good being in and of himself by force. God holds to free will because it is the only way mankind can truly become good beings. And when man chooses evil or simply by virtue of the fact the principle of evil exists, some will blame God for it. God has always known that man would have his free will and that some would choose evil over good. That is the price of having goodness exist and freewill. Was God bewildered? Not even close. God knew that man in his imperfect state would make bad choices and prepared a way for them to overcome the bad by planning for the atonement before the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:18-21
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Your god just makes no sense. Epicurus figured it out 2300 years ago:

If your god is willing to prevent evil, but not able
Then he is not omnipotent.

If he is not willing to prevent evil, but able
Then he is malevolent.

If he is willing, and able
From whence cometh evil?

If he is neither willing, nor able
Then why call him God?

In this world it is not God's intention to stamp out all evil but to allow man to choose freely between good and evil in order to test his character and judge him as to which kingdom he will inherit in the hereafter. This world is a testing ground for the characters of men. It is not malevolent to allow man to exercise his free will in order to test him to see if he will be one who should inherit the kingdom of God or some other kingdom. He also give man opportunity to repent of his evil ways. This life is a temporary life. It is a mortal life. It is a testing ground and a schooling ground to find out who will be willing to live a celestial law in the eternity to come. The test goes on until the world again becomes like it was in the days of Noah. He then will cleanse the earth by fire and 1000 years of peace will reign upon the earth before it becomes a celestial sphere.

Again, your God is malevolent. He could prevent evil, if he so chose. He simply chooses not to. Got it. Thanks. No.

 

[onefour1]

If the principle of evil exists simply by creating good and if God holds to his desire to give all their free will, then he cannot prevent evil if man so chooses to do it. However, God will not allow evil to prevail over goodness and he will put it in its place and prevent it from ruling the universe. Again this is not malevolence but wisdom in God in bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of as many who truly want and desire it.

 

[Czernobog]

If the principle of evil exists simply by creating good and if God holds to his desire to give all their free will, then he cannot prevent evil if man so chooses to do it. However, God will not allow evil to prevail over goodness and he will put it in its place and prevent it from ruling the universe. Again this is not malevolence but wisdom in God in bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of as many who truly want and desire it.

Okay. "God could stop the evil, but he wants to watch man suffer through it, instead. This isn't malevolent. Really, it's not!!!" You realise that if your goal is to dissuade me from my contempt for your religion, you are failing miserably.

 

[onefour1]

So your solution is that God should take away the free will? Is your solution that God should not have created goodness and thereby created it opposite, evil? How can man have free will without a choice?

 

[Czernobog]

So your solution is that God should take away the free will? Is your solution that God should not have created goodness and thereby created it opposite, evil? How can man have free will without a choice?

My contention is that an All Powerful god should have the ability to create free will and prevent evil. After all, there is nothing that an all-powerful being cannot do. If you are insisting that he cannot do this, then you are admitting that he is not all-powerful.

 

[phaethon]

True. Although I am more tolerant of Jews. Mostly because they don't spend nearly as much time, and energy trying to convert me, or trying to codify their belief-based morality into law. Once the Christians, and Muslims start taking their cues from the Jews, I'll start leaving their asses alone, too.

The Jewish attitude towards proselytizing is always changing. The Christians and Muslims had taken their proselytizing cues from the Jews and expanded on it.

Sometimes the Jews were expressly forbidden from divulging their teachings to non-jews, often under penalty of death. The Essene sect mentioned by Josephus and Philo fall under this category.

Other times, they relentlessly strove to proselytize. Is this not suggested in Matthew 23:15, where Jesus accuses the Pharisees of this trend? Suetonius records that the emperor Tiberius had suppressed all the Jewish and Egyptian rites and tried to expel all proselytes of that religion. Valerius Maximus records two accounts of Jews attempting to proselytize their religion, which resulted in their expulsion. It should be noted that in both accounts, the Jews are associated with the Chaldeans. The Christian Orosius claims that a sect of Jews had persecuted Christians because they did not join them in their rebellion against Rome, and for this Hadrian had forbidden them from entering Jerusalem.

 

[Czernobog]

True. Although I am more tolerant of Jews. Mostly because they don't spend nearly as much time, and energy trying to convert me, or trying to codify their belief-based morality into law. Once the Christians, and Muslims start taking their cues from the Jews, I'll start leaving their asses alone, too.

The Jewish attitude towards proselytizing is always changing. The Christians and Muslims had taken their proselytizing cues from the Jews and expanded on it.

Sometimes the Jews were expressly forbidden from divulging their teachings to non-jews, often under penalty of death. The Essene sect mentioned by Josephus and Philo fall under this category.

Other times, they relentlessly strove to proselytize. Is this not suggested in Matthew 23:15, where Jesus accuses the Pharisees of this trend? Suetonius records that the emperor Tiberius had suppressed all the Jewish and Egyptian rites and tried to expel all proselytes of that religion. Valerius Maximus records two accounts of Jews attempting to proselytize their religion, which resulted in their expulsion. It should be noted that in both accounts, the Jews are associated with the Chaldeans. The Christian Orosius claims that a sect of Jews had persecuted Christians because they did not join them in their rebellion against Rome, and for this Hadrian had forbidden them from entering Jerusalem.

It's great to see that you have such a firm grasp on history, but I am referring to how things are now. You'll notice I didn't talk about how violent Christianity is, and go blathering on about the Crusades, Inquisition, and Witch trials. Why? Because that was a younger, more adolescent Christianity that is not reflected in today's Christian behaviour. Today they just try to pass faith-based morality laws.

In the same way, it doesn't matter what Jews did some 2,000 years ago. I am referring to how Jews behave today, in contrast to how Christians, and Muslims behave.

 

[RWNJ]

1. Creates evil (Isiah)
2. Creates Adam and Eve (Genesis)
3. Populate the world through Incest (Adam, Eve, Caine and Abel the only humans on Earth - you do the math)
4. Surprised the evil (he created) exists
5. Clueless about how to deal with evil.
6. Drowns the entire planet, save for one small family of very, very skilled ship builders
7. Repopulates the world through incest (Again, only Noah, his wife, his three kids, and their wives to procreate - you do the math)
8. Surprised evil exists...again.
9. Send plagues, diseases, starvation, plagues, tsunamis, etc.
10. Still bewildered by the evil
11. Blames Satan (whom he created).
12. Rapes (plants his seed) into a girl so she'll give birth to himself as his own son, so we can torture, and kill him/His son, so he can forgive us for being so evil.
13. Says, "Just KIDDING!" three days later, and brings his son back to life (Soooo...a sacrifice of nothing?)
14. Claims omniscience, and omnipotence.
15. Expects to be worshipped for his wisdom.

Yup. That is the God that Christians worship. And they wonder why there are those of us who find it difficult to take them seriously?

Troll alert, and not even worthy of discussion. I suggest everyone ignore him. He might go away.

 

[Meriweather]

My contention is that an All Powerful god should have the ability to create free will and prevent evil. After all, there is nothing that an all-powerful being cannot do. If you are insisting that he cannot do this, then you are admitting that he is not all-powerful.

This may be like saying that God should be able to create a piece of paper with a front side but not a reverse side. Every do seems to have a don't (do tell the truth/don't lie). We see health--and unhealthy. In every choice we make, we can choose to do good, or to do evil.

In order to have one, it appears we also get the other.

 

[Czernobog]

1. Creates evil (Isiah)
2. Creates Adam and Eve (Genesis)
3. Populate the world through Incest (Adam, Eve, Caine and Abel the only humans on Earth - you do the math)
4. Surprised the evil (he created) exists
5. Clueless about how to deal with evil.
6. Drowns the entire planet, save for one small family of very, very skilled ship builders
7. Repopulates the world through incest (Again, only Noah, his wife, his three kids, and their wives to procreate - you do the math)
8. Surprised evil exists...again.
9. Send plagues, diseases, starvation, plagues, tsunamis, etc.
10. Still bewildered by the evil
11. Blames Satan (whom he created).
12. Rapes (plants his seed) into a girl so she'll give birth to himself as his own son, so we can torture, and kill him/His son, so he can forgive us for being so evil.
13. Says, "Just KIDDING!" three days later, and brings his son back to life (Soooo...a sacrifice of nothing?)
14. Claims omniscience, and omnipotence.
15. Expects to be worshipped for his wisdom.

Yup. That is the God that Christians worship. And they wonder why there are those of us who find it difficult to take them seriously?

Troll alert, and not even worthy of discussion. I suggest everyone ignore him. He might go away.

You're adorable.

 

[Czernobog]

My contention is that an All Powerful god should have the ability to create free will and prevent evil. After all, there is nothing that an all-powerful being cannot do. If you are insisting that he cannot do this, then you are admitting that he is not all-powerful.

This may be like saying that God should be able to create a piece of paper with a front side but not a reverse side. Every do seems to have a don't (do tell the truth/don't lie). We see health--and unhealthy. In every choice we make, we can choose to do good, or to do evil.

In order to have one, it appears we also get the other.

All you are doing is restating what you have been stating all along. Your God was not capable of preventing evil. Ergo, you god is not omnipotent.

Thank you for playing...

 

[BreezeWood]

#10 Still bewildered by the evil

God still allows mankind his free will to choose between right and wrong because he knows that man does not become a good being in and of himself by force. God holds to free will because it is the only way mankind can truly become good beings. And when man chooses evil or simply by virtue of the fact the principle of evil exists, some will blame God for it. God has always known that man would have his free will and that some would choose evil over good. That is the price of having goodness exist and freewill. Was God bewildered? Not even close. God knew that man in his imperfect state would make bad choices and prepared a way for them to overcome the bad by planning for the atonement before the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:18-21
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Your god just makes no sense. Epicurus figured it out 2300 years ago:

If your god is willing to prevent evil, but not able
Then he is not omnipotent.

If he is not willing to prevent evil, but able
Then he is malevolent.

If he is willing, and able
From whence cometh evil?

If he is neither willing, nor able
Then why call him God?

.

being Triumphant against evil is a minimal requirement for Admission to the Everlasting. or just perish when your time is up, life is a test for everyone where success is the only means for advancement.

So the God you imagine is malevolent. Got it.

.

So the God you imagine is malevolent. Got it.

the gatekeeper to the Everlasting the barrier to such beliefs as the awfulness of construed christianity, the desert religions duplicitous adherents the opposite of malevolent the enforcer of temporal truth. the guardian for the genome of life. and those who have succeeded.

 

[G.T.]

So your solution is that God should take away the free will? Is your solution that God should not have created goodness and thereby created it opposite, evil? How can man have free will without a choice?

God should give eternal life to everyone with no strings attached, un-invent evil, and let everyone have fun.

he lacks character in so many ways if he created this reality.

 

[BreezeWood]

Okay. "God could stop the evil, but he wants to watch man suffer through it, instead.

evil exists within the confines of humanity as the christian 4th century political document or the documents of any of the religions attesting the Everlasting or their verbal admissions it is up to humanity to set their course as prescribed, Noah sink or swim. the genome of life is the antitheses to atheism in as change over time is allowed only through specific parameters irregardless of disposition.

 

[Czernobog]

#10 Still bewildered by the evil

God still allows mankind his free will to choose between right and wrong because he knows that man does not become a good being in and of himself by force. God holds to free will because it is the only way mankind can truly become good beings. And when man chooses evil or simply by virtue of the fact the principle of evil exists, some will blame God for it. God has always known that man would have his free will and that some would choose evil over good. That is the price of having goodness exist and freewill. Was God bewildered? Not even close. God knew that man in his imperfect state would make bad choices and prepared a way for them to overcome the bad by planning for the atonement before the foundation of the world.

1 Peter 1:18-21
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Your god just makes no sense. Epicurus figured it out 2300 years ago:

If your god is willing to prevent evil, but not able
Then he is not omnipotent.

If he is not willing to prevent evil, but able
Then he is malevolent.

If he is willing, and able
From whence cometh evil?

If he is neither willing, nor able
Then why call him God?

.

being Triumphant against evil is a minimal requirement for Admission to the Everlasting. or just perish when your time is up, life is a test for everyone where success is the only means for advancement.

So the God you imagine is malevolent. Got it.

.

So the God you imagine is malevolent. Got it.

the gatekeeper to the Everlasting the barrier to such beliefs as the awfulness of construed christianity, the desert religions duplicitous adherents the opposite of malevolent the enforcer of temporal truth. the guardian for the genome of life. and those who have succeeded.

...I'm sure that this made sense in your had. Perhaps try again a bit later, and post something other than word salad?

 

[Czernobog]

Okay. "God could stop the evil, but he wants to watch man suffer through it, instead.

evil exists within the confines of humanity as the christian 4th century political document or the documents of any of the religions attesting the Everlasting or their verbal admissions it is up to humanity to set their course as prescribed, Noah sink or swim. the genome of life is the antitheses to atheism in as change over time is allowed only through specific parameters irregardless of disposition.

Your god is evil, malevolent, and uncaring. Got it.

 

[Meriweather]

All you are doing is restating what you have been stating all along. Your God was not capable of preventing evil. Ergo, you god is not omnipotent.

Remember, with the "omni" words the caveat is that it is in the realm of the possible. God possesses all the power it is possible to possess. It doesn't mean He can or will accomplish irrational imaginings (Can God create a rock not even He can lift...)

Have you considered it is not a matter of preventing evil, but creating good from evil? God is known doing that.

 

[phaethon]

True. Although I am more tolerant of Jews. Mostly because they don't spend nearly as much time, and energy trying to convert me, or trying to codify their belief-based morality into law. Once the Christians, and Muslims start taking their cues from the Jews, I'll start leaving their asses alone, too.

The Jewish attitude towards proselytizing is always changing. The Christians and Muslims had taken their proselytizing cues from the Jews and expanded on it.

Sometimes the Jews were expressly forbidden from divulging their teachings to non-jews, often under penalty of death. The Essene sect mentioned by Josephus and Philo fall under this category.

Other times, they relentlessly strove to proselytize. Is this not suggested in Matthew 23:15, where Jesus accuses the Pharisees of this trend? Suetonius records that the emperor Tiberius had suppressed all the Jewish and Egyptian rites and tried to expel all proselytes of that religion. Valerius Maximus records two accounts of Jews attempting to proselytize their religion, which resulted in their expulsion. It should be noted that in both accounts, the Jews are associated with the Chaldeans. The Christian Orosius claims that a sect of Jews had persecuted Christians because they did not join them in their rebellion against Rome, and for this Hadrian had forbidden them from entering Jerusalem.

It's great to see that you have such a firm grasp on history, but I am referring to how things are now. You'll notice I didn't talk about how violent Christianity is, and go blathering on about the Crusades, Inquisition, and Witch trials. Why? Because that was a younger, more adolescent Christianity that is not reflected in today's Christian behaviour. Today they just try to pass faith-based morality laws.

In the same way, it doesn't matter what Jews did some 2,000 years ago. I am referring to how Jews behave today, in contrast to how Christians, and Muslims behave.

Oh I'd say the mentality is still there. We're just not seeing atrocities of that kind from the churches since they no longer dominate. The crusades, the inquisition, and witch trials are still ongoing, merely in different forms. As long as sects that have not lost contact with their roots still exist i.e. the Catholics, Puritans, and Calvinists, it's still possible for Christianity to turn into an abhorrence again. However, I will admit that a lot of Christians have adapted to the modern times and these do well.

As for the Jews, it's worth pointing out that nearly all of their historic rebellions and misdeeds were the result of them following either a rebel leader or a messiah claimant, who had their interpretation and justification in the Old Testament scriptures (which have remained mostly unchanged for 2000 years). It's not implausible for some modern day religious, radicalized Jew with a messiah complex to show up and inadvertently lead Jews to their unwitting destruction. That'd be a grave misfortune for all of us.

 

[Czernobog]

All you are doing is restating what you have been stating all along. Your God was not capable of preventing evil. Ergo, you god is not omnipotent.

Remember, with the "omni" words the caveat is that it is in the realm of the possible. God possesses all the power it is possible to possess. It doesn't mean He can or will accomplish irrational imaginings (Can God create a rock not even He can lift...)

"All things are possible through God," I'm pretty sure the Nazarene said this. In fact, I know he did (Matt 19:26). Soooo...he lied? See, that's the problem with trying to limit Omnipotence to things that are in the "realm of the possible". Your own book of myths makes it crystal clear that, for your omnipotent God, there there is no realm that is not possible.

Have you considered it is not a matter of preventing evil, but creating good from evil? God is known doing that.

You mean the evil that he created? So, now, not only did he create evil, but he created it first. Aaaand this is a benevolent God? Really??????[/QUOTE]