A Bleak Outlook for Trump’s Promises to Coal Miners

[guno]

Trump lied to those desperate people that the coal jobs are coming back





And these days, no matter who is president, coal is at the mercy of market economics. Coal’s No. 1 rival is cheap, cleaner-burning natural gas — which could become an even more potent competitor under the incoming administration. The probable easing of restrictions on pipeline building and loosening of rules on gas exploration and production would mean more natural gas reaching the market.


“I don’t think the Trump presidency will have a material impact on bringing coal miners back to work,” said Ted O’Brien, a coal analyst at Doyle Trading Consultants, a leading energy industry research firm.

Beyond the declining demand for coal, there has been an even more fundamental factor behind the shift in coal mining employment, which peaked decades ago. As with those in many industries, jobs in mining have fallen victim to automation. High-tech shears can now shave coal from underground seams — work that formerly required hundreds of miners. Surface mining, which has been increasing in recent years, has also replaced many workers with heavy machinery.

As a result, there are now just over 50,000 jobs in the American coal mining industry, down from a peak of more than 250,000 in 1980.



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/b...tlook-for-trumps-promises-to-coal-miners.html

 

[westwall]

Trump lied to those desperate people that the coal jobs are coming back





And these days, no matter who is president, coal is at the mercy of market economics. Coal’s No. 1 rival is cheap, cleaner-burning natural gas — which could become an even more potent competitor under the incoming administration. The probable easing of restrictions on pipeline building and loosening of rules on gas exploration and production would mean more natural gas reaching the market.


“I don’t think the Trump presidency will have a material impact on bringing coal miners back to work,” said Ted O’Brien, a coal analyst at Doyle Trading Consultants, a leading energy industry research firm.

Beyond the declining demand for coal, there has been an even more fundamental factor behind the shift in coal mining employment, which peaked decades ago. As with those in many industries, jobs in mining have fallen victim to automation. High-tech shears can now shave coal from underground seams — work that formerly required hundreds of miners. Surface mining, which has been increasing in recent years, has also replaced many workers with heavy machinery.

As a result, there are now just over 50,000 jobs in the American coal mining industry, down from a peak of more than 250,000 in 1980.



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/b...tlook-for-trumps-promises-to-coal-miners.html

Wrong, as usual. Coal is at the mercy of the EPA. Without massive taxpayer support "green" energy can't compete with any fossil fuel source save for hydro. That is a fact. As soon as the EPA gets someone in charge who doesn't have a financial interest in killing off coal, the industry will rebound.

Face it guano, the election was a catastrophe for your totalitarian socialist plans.

 

[Pete7469]

 

[Moonglow]

Cheap gas is hurting coal also...

 

[Wyatt earp]

Trump lied to those desperate people that the coal jobs are coming back





And these days, no matter who is president, coal is at the mercy of market economics. Coal’s No. 1 rival is cheap, cleaner-burning natural gas — which could become an even more potent competitor under the incoming administration. The probable easing of restrictions on pipeline building and loosening of rules on gas exploration and production would mean more natural gas reaching the market.


“I don’t think the Trump presidency will have a material impact on bringing coal miners back to work,” said Ted O’Brien, a coal analyst at Doyle Trading Consultants, a leading energy industry research firm.

Beyond the declining demand for coal, there has been an even more fundamental factor behind the shift in coal mining employment, which peaked decades ago. As with those in many industries, jobs in mining have fallen victim to automation. High-tech shears can now shave coal from underground seams — work that formerly required hundreds of miners. Surface mining, which has been increasing in recent years, has also replaced many workers with heavy machinery.

As a result, there are now just over 50,000 jobs in the American coal mining industry, down from a peak of more than 250,000 in 1980.



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/b...tlook-for-trumps-promises-to-coal-miners.html

Wrong, as usual. Coal is at the mercy of the EPA. Without massive taxpayer support "green" energy can't compete with any fossil fuel source save for hydro. That is a fact. As soon as the EPA gets someone in charge who doesn't have a financial interest in killing off coal, the industry will rebound.

Face it guano, the election was a catastrophe for your totalitarian socialist plans.

Wait pal, I thought natural gas was cheap as heck now? So a question you telling me we subsidies natural gas?

OK let me get this straight in president Trump lifts off the Epa regulations on coal.. Coal would be cheaper than natural gas?

You might be right.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Cheap gas is hurting coal also...

Natural gas

I fixed it for you pal.. You're welcome

 

[Moonglow]

Cheap gas is hurting coal also...

Natural gas

I fixed it for you pal.. You're welcome

Oh really, I use gas from da ass to offset my electric bill..(sponsor)

 

[Wyatt earp]

Listen clown so you telling us you use petrol instead of propane?

Yeah like I believe that.

 

[kiwiman127]

Anyone who thinks coal is going to make a comeback is on the ignorant train.
Investors acknowledge coals decline and the main reason of the decline, natural gas and renewables.
Coal Industry Stock Outlook - June 2016
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/coal-industry-stock-outlook-june-2016-cm641729

 

[westwall]

Anyone who thinks coal is going to make a comeback is on the ignorant train.
Investors acknowledge coals decline and the main reason of the decline, natural gas and renewables.
Coal Industry Stock Outlook - June 2016
Coal Industry Stock Outlook - June 2016

You will no doubt note that that report is from BEFORE the election. As was famously said in an earlier election, they have consequences....

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

Anybody yet figured out how to make coke (a key ingredient in steel) out of natural gas?

 

[Fenton Lum]

Trump lied to those desperate people that the coal jobs are coming back





And these days, no matter who is president, coal is at the mercy of market economics. Coal’s No. 1 rival is cheap, cleaner-burning natural gas — which could become an even more potent competitor under the incoming administration. The probable easing of restrictions on pipeline building and loosening of rules on gas exploration and production would mean more natural gas reaching the market.


“I don’t think the Trump presidency will have a material impact on bringing coal miners back to work,” said Ted O’Brien, a coal analyst at Doyle Trading Consultants, a leading energy industry research firm.

Beyond the declining demand for coal, there has been an even more fundamental factor behind the shift in coal mining employment, which peaked decades ago. As with those in many industries, jobs in mining have fallen victim to automation. High-tech shears can now shave coal from underground seams — work that formerly required hundreds of miners. Surface mining, which has been increasing in recent years, has also replaced many workers with heavy machinery.

As a result, there are now just over 50,000 jobs in the American coal mining industry, down from a peak of more than 250,000 in 1980.



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/b...tlook-for-trumps-promises-to-coal-miners.html

Wrong, as usual. Coal is at the mercy of the EPA. Without massive taxpayer support "green" energy can't compete with any fossil fuel source save for hydro. That is a fact. As soon as the EPA gets someone in charge who doesn't have a financial interest in killing off coal, the industry will rebound.

Face it guano, the election was a catastrophe for your totalitarian socialist plans.

Trump obviously had/has no clue as to where clean coal technology is in development at the moment. And really now, what has the coal industry done for Appalachia? The region became better off as a result of their colonialism? Nope, same old shell game. We’ll come in and extract/exploit your resources for some temporary hand to mouth jobs and then pull out extracting the wealth with us.

Someone in america had better start telling the masses the truth, the jobs are not coming back. Yes, I know, the “liberals” are playing the same game, that’s what I’ve been saying.

 

[william the wie]

Trump lied to those desperate people that the coal jobs are coming back





And these days, no matter who is president, coal is at the mercy of market economics. Coal’s No. 1 rival is cheap, cleaner-burning natural gas — which could become an even more potent competitor under the incoming administration. The probable easing of restrictions on pipeline building and loosening of rules on gas exploration and production would mean more natural gas reaching the market.


“I don’t think the Trump presidency will have a material impact on bringing coal miners back to work,” said Ted O’Brien, a coal analyst at Doyle Trading Consultants, a leading energy industry research firm.

Beyond the declining demand for coal, there has been an even more fundamental factor behind the shift in coal mining employment, which peaked decades ago. As with those in many industries, jobs in mining have fallen victim to automation. High-tech shears can now shave coal from underground seams — work that formerly required hundreds of miners. Surface mining, which has been increasing in recent years, has also replaced many workers with heavy machinery.

As a result, there are now just over 50,000 jobs in the American coal mining industry, down from a peak of more than 250,000 in 1980.



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/b...tlook-for-trumps-promises-to-coal-miners.html

Wrong, as usual. Coal is at the mercy of the EPA. Without massive taxpayer support "green" energy can't compete with any fossil fuel source save for hydro. That is a fact. As soon as the EPA gets someone in charge who doesn't have a financial interest in killing off coal, the industry will rebound.

Face it guano, the election was a catastrophe for your totalitarian socialist plans.

Trump obviously had/has no clue as to where clean coal technology is in development at the moment. And really now, what has the coal industry done for Appalachia? The region became better off as a result of their colonialism? Nope, same old shell game. We’ll come in and extract/exploit your resources for some temporary hand to mouth jobs and then pull out extracting the wealth with us.

Someone in america had better start telling the masses the truth, the jobs are not coming back. Yes, I know, the “liberals” are playing the same game, that’s what I’ve been saying.

1) coalmines are a great source of methane

2) methane is used as a substitute for coke in LA

3) coal mine fires can last more than a century.

Using coal mines as a source of methane and exploiting the mines in place is the safer move.

 

[Old Rocks]

Trump lied to those desperate people that the coal jobs are coming back





And these days, no matter who is president, coal is at the mercy of market economics. Coal’s No. 1 rival is cheap, cleaner-burning natural gas — which could become an even more potent competitor under the incoming administration. The probable easing of restrictions on pipeline building and loosening of rules on gas exploration and production would mean more natural gas reaching the market.


“I don’t think the Trump presidency will have a material impact on bringing coal miners back to work,” said Ted O’Brien, a coal analyst at Doyle Trading Consultants, a leading energy industry research firm.

Beyond the declining demand for coal, there has been an even more fundamental factor behind the shift in coal mining employment, which peaked decades ago. As with those in many industries, jobs in mining have fallen victim to automation. High-tech shears can now shave coal from underground seams — work that formerly required hundreds of miners. Surface mining, which has been increasing in recent years, has also replaced many workers with heavy machinery.

As a result, there are now just over 50,000 jobs in the American coal mining industry, down from a peak of more than 250,000 in 1980.



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/b...tlook-for-trumps-promises-to-coal-miners.html

Wrong, as usual. Coal is at the mercy of the EPA. Without massive taxpayer support "green" energy can't compete with any fossil fuel source save for hydro. That is a fact. As soon as the EPA gets someone in charge who doesn't have a financial interest in killing off coal, the industry will rebound.

Face it guano, the election was a catastrophe for your totalitarian socialist plans.

Mr. Westwall, you are totally batshit crazy. Coal is not coming back, for very substancial economic reasons. First is the price and availability of natural gas. Second is the rapid decline in costs for both solar and wind. And third is the emergence of cheap grid scale batteries. Coal is dead, and that is a good thing.

 

[Old Rocks]

Trump lied to those desperate people that the coal jobs are coming back





And these days, no matter who is president, coal is at the mercy of market economics. Coal’s No. 1 rival is cheap, cleaner-burning natural gas — which could become an even more potent competitor under the incoming administration. The probable easing of restrictions on pipeline building and loosening of rules on gas exploration and production would mean more natural gas reaching the market.


“I don’t think the Trump presidency will have a material impact on bringing coal miners back to work,” said Ted O’Brien, a coal analyst at Doyle Trading Consultants, a leading energy industry research firm.

Beyond the declining demand for coal, there has been an even more fundamental factor behind the shift in coal mining employment, which peaked decades ago. As with those in many industries, jobs in mining have fallen victim to automation. High-tech shears can now shave coal from underground seams — work that formerly required hundreds of miners. Surface mining, which has been increasing in recent years, has also replaced many workers with heavy machinery.

As a result, there are now just over 50,000 jobs in the American coal mining industry, down from a peak of more than 250,000 in 1980.



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/b...tlook-for-trumps-promises-to-coal-miners.html

Wrong, as usual. Coal is at the mercy of the EPA. Without massive taxpayer support "green" energy can't compete with any fossil fuel source save for hydro. That is a fact. As soon as the EPA gets someone in charge who doesn't have a financial interest in killing off coal, the industry will rebound.

Face it guano, the election was a catastrophe for your totalitarian socialist plans.

Wait pal, I thought natural gas was cheap as heck now? So a question you telling me we subsidies natural gas?

OK let me get this straight in president Trump lifts off the Epa regulations on coal.. Coal would be cheaper than natural gas?

You might be right.

Yes, natural gas will be cheaper than coal. No fly ash residue to deal with, easier to transport, and very little pollution to catch at the smokestack. And then, even today in many places, as the continuing decline in prices for wind and solar continue, the grid scale batteries will make both considerably cheaper than either coal or gas. And the driver of this will be capitalistic economics, not government programs.

 

[Old Rocks]

Anyone who thinks coal is going to make a comeback is on the ignorant train.
Investors acknowledge coals decline and the main reason of the decline, natural gas and renewables.
Coal Industry Stock Outlook - June 2016
Coal Industry Stock Outlook - June 2016

You will no doubt note that that report is from BEFORE the election. As was famously said in an earlier election, they have consequences....

Well yes, elections have consequences. And the election of Trump, should he try to keep the imbecilic promises that he made, will have major consequences. Look for the shut down of major cities off and on due to the idiot move by the Trump admin. And there is a very good chance I will be out there helping shut them down. From Standing Rock to Portland, time to show the power of the people.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I wonder if Trump is going to subsidize coal?

 

[westwall]

Trump lied to those desperate people that the coal jobs are coming back





And these days, no matter who is president, coal is at the mercy of market economics. Coal’s No. 1 rival is cheap, cleaner-burning natural gas — which could become an even more potent competitor under the incoming administration. The probable easing of restrictions on pipeline building and loosening of rules on gas exploration and production would mean more natural gas reaching the market.


“I don’t think the Trump presidency will have a material impact on bringing coal miners back to work,” said Ted O’Brien, a coal analyst at Doyle Trading Consultants, a leading energy industry research firm.

Beyond the declining demand for coal, there has been an even more fundamental factor behind the shift in coal mining employment, which peaked decades ago. As with those in many industries, jobs in mining have fallen victim to automation. High-tech shears can now shave coal from underground seams — work that formerly required hundreds of miners. Surface mining, which has been increasing in recent years, has also replaced many workers with heavy machinery.

As a result, there are now just over 50,000 jobs in the American coal mining industry, down from a peak of more than 250,000 in 1980.



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/b...tlook-for-trumps-promises-to-coal-miners.html

Wrong, as usual. Coal is at the mercy of the EPA. Without massive taxpayer support "green" energy can't compete with any fossil fuel source save for hydro. That is a fact. As soon as the EPA gets someone in charge who doesn't have a financial interest in killing off coal, the industry will rebound.

Face it guano, the election was a catastrophe for your totalitarian socialist plans.

Mr. Westwall, you are totally batshit crazy. Coal is not coming back, for very substancial economic reasons. First is the price and availability of natural gas. Second is the rapid decline in costs for both solar and wind. And third is the emergence of cheap grid scale batteries. Coal is dead, and that is a good thing.

Your supposed declines in costs for wind and solar are phantoms, based on massive taxpayer subsidies. Coal is indeed more expensive than nat gas, however, the mines are already dug, and the fact remains that MANY plants are still coal fired. I never stated that coal would expand, (though it might based on China's needs), merely that it would recover.

 

[Old Rocks]

Trump lied to those desperate people that the coal jobs are coming back





And these days, no matter who is president, coal is at the mercy of market economics. Coal’s No. 1 rival is cheap, cleaner-burning natural gas — which could become an even more potent competitor under the incoming administration. The probable easing of restrictions on pipeline building and loosening of rules on gas exploration and production would mean more natural gas reaching the market.


“I don’t think the Trump presidency will have a material impact on bringing coal miners back to work,” said Ted O’Brien, a coal analyst at Doyle Trading Consultants, a leading energy industry research firm.

Beyond the declining demand for coal, there has been an even more fundamental factor behind the shift in coal mining employment, which peaked decades ago. As with those in many industries, jobs in mining have fallen victim to automation. High-tech shears can now shave coal from underground seams — work that formerly required hundreds of miners. Surface mining, which has been increasing in recent years, has also replaced many workers with heavy machinery.

As a result, there are now just over 50,000 jobs in the American coal mining industry, down from a peak of more than 250,000 in 1980.



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/b...tlook-for-trumps-promises-to-coal-miners.html

Wrong, as usual. Coal is at the mercy of the EPA. Without massive taxpayer support "green" energy can't compete with any fossil fuel source save for hydro. That is a fact. As soon as the EPA gets someone in charge who doesn't have a financial interest in killing off coal, the industry will rebound.

Face it guano, the election was a catastrophe for your totalitarian socialist plans.

Mr. Westwall, you are totally batshit crazy. Coal is not coming back, for very substancial economic reasons. First is the price and availability of natural gas. Second is the rapid decline in costs for both solar and wind. And third is the emergence of cheap grid scale batteries. Coal is dead, and that is a good thing.

Your supposed declines in costs for wind and solar are phantoms, based on massive taxpayer subsidies. Coal is indeed more expensive than nat gas, however, the mines are already dug, and the fact remains that MANY plants are still coal fired. I never stated that coal would expand, (though it might based on China's needs), merely that it would recover.

4 Reasons the Cost of Solar Energy Keeps Falling - Earth911.com

The U.S. now has enough solar energy capacity to power 6.2 million homes, according to a recent report by the Solar Energy Industry Association. Solar power is growing at an unprecedented rate of 43 percent, year over year. The plummeting cost of solar energy is fueling a boom in popularity.

The mission of the SunShot Initiative by the Department of Energy is “to make solar energy fully cost-competitive with traditional energy sources before the end of this decade, making this clean renewable energy resource more affordable and accessible to Americans.” The goal is to reduce the cost of solar energy to $.06 per kilowatt hour by 2020, and this appears to be very attainable at this point.
................................................................................................................................................................................
2. Solar Technology Advances
The greater the efficiency of the solar panels (and other equipment), the greater the overall energy production of the system. Although the most efficient solar panels available on the market have an efficiency of 22.5 percent, most panels are in the 14 to 16 percent range. This difference in efficiency means that one system can have a solar energy output that is 50 percent greater than a less efficient system. Some other associated costs are reduced by greater efficiency, such as racking system equipment, installation and transportation costs. Efficiency in turn fuels greater opportunities to sell more solar generation capacity, as many residential systems are limited by the space available for mounting panels.
Throw in the availability of home storage systems, and it is looking very good for solar. And the utility rates are now below 5 cents a watt.

 

[Old Rocks]

Berkeley Lab study shows expected price declines up to 30% by 2030

Technological advancements have continued to drive down the price of wind energy. Wind power experts from the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab) estimate cost reductions of 24%–30% by 2030 and 35%–41% by 2050.

Berkeley Lab found five key components that impact––– the cost of wind projects, according to a study conducted by Ryan Wiser, a Senior Scientist at Berkeley Lab:

1. Up-front capital cost
2. Ongoing operating costs
3. Cost of financing
4. Performance
5. Project design life

Recent years have seen significant decreases in up-front costs of wind energy as well as increases in wind project performance, as measured by the capacity of wind facilities. Experts foresee sustained improvements in these two overall cost drivers, with an additional factor—the overall size of wind turbines.

For onshore wind, growth is expected to increase in capacity factors—rotor diameters (135 meters by 2030) and hub heights (115 meters by 2030). Fixed-bottom offshore wind turbines are expected to grow even larger, to 11 MW on average in 2030, helping to reduce up-front installed costs.

“Onshore wind technology is fairly mature, but further advancements are on the horizon—and not only in reduced up-front costs,” says Wiser. “Experts anticipate a wide range of advancements that will increase project performance, extend project design lives, and lower operational expenses.”

Wind Energy Costs Expected to Continue Decline

Looks like one more time Mr. Westwall has not the slightest idea what he is talking about. All the predictions are for further significant reductions in price for wind and solar.